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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:50 am

Britons have spent £4bn stockpiling goods in case of no-deal Brexit
Research suggests one in five people have a food, drinks and medicine hoard worth £380


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get some extra food and other essentials. The government is preparing for food rationing, so why not be on the safe side.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:57 am

Not just consumers.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/06/busi ... index.html

If BoJo is seriously considering holding a GE after Brexit in the hopes of cashing in on being seen as the man to deliver on his promisses, he'll better have it very soon after Brexit: voting on an empty stomach is not a good recipe for victory at the ballot boxes.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 am

If anyone had presented the current status of Brexit for the uk people back in 2016 it would not even had been project fear. It would had been laughed at.

No SM, no they need us more then we need them, nu rule the waves, no empire II.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:13 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Now that rang a bell....

The Culham Centre for Fusion Energy near Oxford is largely funded by the EU and dozens of its scientists come from outside the UK...... Five researchers have already returned to continental Europe with others said to be considering their positions..


https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37777729


I know someone from there who was briefly in the UK and decided to return when things started to kick off - they might not be included in that list, since it was a couple of years ago, but it was absolutely a result of Brexit and the general downturn of prospects in the UK...
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:12 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
It's getting clearer by the day what the real aim is in the minds of all those who run the show in Brexit Britain:
turn the UK into a US style economy with much lower levels of protection for millions of ordinary Brits when it comes to their social, environmental and consumer rights!

Effectively they used the pains of Tory austerity to blow up the UK's EU membership by deflecting the blame from the Tory party to the EU, and with the end goal to be handed free reign to instate even more brutal austerity against the general population afterwards when there was no way back with the bridges burned and the earth scorched behind them.

It is a common approach for fanatical revolutionaries, just this time from the ultra-right.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Klaus wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
It's getting clearer by the day what the real aim is in the minds of all those who run the show in Brexit Britain:
turn the UK into a US style economy with much lower levels of protection for millions of ordinary Brits when it comes to their social, environmental and consumer rights!

Effectively they used the pains of Tory austerity to blow up the UK's EU membership by deflecting the blame from the Tory party to the EU, and with the end goal to be handed free reign to instate even more brutal austerity against the general population afterwards when there was no way back with the bridges burned and the earth scorched behind them.

It is a common approach for fanatical revolutionaries, just this time from the ultra-right.


They will briefly shake the magic money tree they've said didn't exist for 10 years in order to get re-elected in between.
BoJo is announcing up to 2BN of new initiatives a week since moving into Nr 10...
He's not doing that without a purpose AND he can't keep doing it for very long either, so a GE is very likely: that one will really be about the making the turkey's voting for Christmas!
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:57 pm

They are now beginning to blow up the bridges regardless of the UK's own interests:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ithin-days
Great entertainment for their fanatical base, but britons not as busy chanting "death to the EU!" may not share in the celebrations quite as eagerly.
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:28 pm

Klaus wrote:
They are now beginning to blow up the bridges regardless of the UK's own interests:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ithin-days
Great entertainment for their fanatical base, but britons not as busy chanting "death to the EU!" may not share in the celebrations quite as eagerly.

:wave: I wish them luck, they’ll need it
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:46 pm

marcelh wrote:
Klaus wrote:
They are now beginning to blow up the bridges regardless of the UK's own interests:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ithin-days
Great entertainment for their fanatical base, but britons not as busy chanting "death to the EU!" may not share in the celebrations quite as eagerly.

:wave: I wish them luck, they’ll need it


It's done to send a further signal, because there's reportedly increasing anxiety within the more moderate Tories who have reluctantly backed BoJo so far about the fact that despite his very vocal and repeated treaths to basically blow the UK's head off by leaving without a deal, the EU isn't moving an inch...
well, at least JRM is happy they aren't moving an inch, rather than not a milimeter…. :rotfl:

Did anyone honestly think 'staring the EU in the eyes' would make ANY impression on Brussels?

So now the official mantra is that the EU won't move for at least another month and probably 'at the last minute' only and the UK will just have to hold out till then and needs to show 'them' it's real: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

Like David Cameron said to Corbyn in his farewell PMQ: "for god sake, man, just go".

Meanwhile, there's even talk to take certain interesting things off the table again here in Brussels because the uniqueness of the UK's situation will have lapsed after Brexit and the country will have to be handled just like any other 3rd country in future, meaning no fast track deals etc...
Anything resembling the all important and much needed FTA the UK needs and BoJo expect to hammer out quickly once he has concluded Brexit, could suddenly take the usual decade to be concluded, expecially if the EC puts it on the backburner to make him sweat a bit further.
Wonder how much stockpiling the UK can do... ;)

Besides, the new position still leaves an interesting practical question unanswered: IF the EU indeed moves at the last minute like they now officially expect, how does BoJo think to ratify the WA on such short notice? Another extension after all then? :scratchchin:
 
marcelh
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:03 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Klaus wrote:
They are now beginning to blow up the bridges regardless of the UK's own interests:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ithin-days
Great entertainment for their fanatical base, but britons not as busy chanting "death to the EU!" may not share in the celebrations quite as eagerly.

:wave: I wish them luck, they’ll need it


It's done to send a further signal, because there's reportedly increasing anxiety within the more moderate Tories who have reluctantly backed BoJo so far about the fact that despite his very vocal and repeated treaths to basically blow the UK's head off by leaving without a deal, the EU isn't moving an inch...
well, at least JRM is happy they aren't moving an inch, rather than not a milimeter…. :rotfl:

Did anyone honestly think 'staring the EU in the eyes' would make ANY impression on Brussels?

So now the official mantra is that the EU won't move for at least another month and probably 'at the last minute' only and the UK will just have to hold out till then and needs to show 'them' it's real: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

Like David Cameron said to Corbyn in his farewell PMQ: "for god sake, man, just go".

Meanwhile, there's even talk to take certain interesting things off the table again here in Brussels because the uniqueness of the UK's situation will have lapsed after Brexit and the country will have to be handled just like any other 3rd country in future, meaning no fast track deals etc...
Anything resembling the all important and much needed FTA the UK needs and BoJo expect to hammer out quickly once he has concluded Brexit, could suddenly take the usual decade to be concluded, expecially if the EC puts it on the backburner to make him sweat a bit further.
Wonder how much stockpiling the UK can do... ;)

Besides, the new position still leaves an interesting practical question unanswered: IF the EU indeed moves at the last minute like they now officially expect, how does BoJo think to ratify the WA on such short notice? Another extension after all then? :scratchchin:

Why should the EU move at the last minute and what can they offer the UK to accept an extension? It must be something huge, like Juncker his personal crown jewels or something like that.....
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Clues for Brexit Future May Be Found on Islands Far, Far Away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

But no comparison is perfect of course:
"New Zealanders have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever, while the U.K.’s sense of importance could make the comedown even more painful."
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:24 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Clues for Brexit Future May Be Found on Islands Far, Far Away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

But no comparison is perfect of course:
"New Zealanders have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever, while the U.K.’s sense of importance could make the comedown even more painful."



All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Britons have spent £4bn stockpiling goods in case of no-deal Brexit
Research suggests one in five people have a food, drinks and medicine hoard worth £380


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get some extra food and other essentials. The government is preparing for food rationing, so why not be on the safe side.



Do you have a source to suggest that the government is planning rationing?


I’m certainly not, it’s only prudent planning for business to have more stock at changeover untill business adjust to the new rules post exit day
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:37 pm

A101 wrote:
All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.


It's not insignificant.

It's just worth much, much less outside of the EU than inside.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:44 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Britons have spent £4bn stockpiling goods in case of no-deal Brexit
Research suggests one in five people have a food, drinks and medicine hoard worth £380


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get some extra food and other essentials. The government is preparing for food rationing, so why not be on the safe side.



Do you have a source to suggest that the government is planning rationing?


I’m certainly not, it’s only prudent planning for business to have more stock at changeover untill business adjust to the new rules post exit day


UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit

And hopefully they do prepare for this, because they need to prepare for all eventualities and what everyone can agree on is that there will be disruption in international trade and food is very much part of it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:45 pm

A101 wrote:
All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.

See "delusions of grandeur", combined with an inability to recognize the impact of Brexit, especially the crash-out one aimed for by the new government.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:52 pm

A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Clues for Brexit Future May Be Found on Islands Far, Far Away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

But no comparison is perfect of course:
"New Zealanders have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever, while the U.K.’s sense of importance could make the comedown even more painful."



All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.


Everybody does recognize that, as for the military stuff, that is NATO not the EU, Britain was against an EU army.

So yes, it is certainly a pity that we lose 14% of the GDP. The 50% of the Veto rights? Didn't know the EU had such an integrated foreign policy that the EU controlled the UK SCC seat (it doesn't so no loss there). So yes, everyone admits that the UK is better with the EU and the EU is better with the UK, but you wanted to leave and the terms you want a deal are not acceptable to the EU because the integrity of the EU is far more important than the purchasing power of the UK.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:02 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get some extra food and other essentials. The government is preparing for food rationing, so why not be on the safe side.



Do you have a source to suggest that the government is planning rationing?


I’m certainly not, it’s only prudent planning for business to have more stock at changeover untill business adjust to the new rules post exit day


UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit

And hopefully they do prepare for this, because they need to prepare for all eventualities and what everyone can agree on is that there will be disruption in international trade and food is very much part of it.


A) You have sourced the Guardian
B) That does not constitute evidence that rationing will be brought in.

Please stop presenting speculation as fact.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:05 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Clues for Brexit Future May Be Found on Islands Far, Far Away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

But no comparison is perfect of course:
"New Zealanders have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever, while the U.K.’s sense of importance could make the comedown even more painful."



All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.


Everybody does recognize that, as for the military stuff, that is NATO not the EU, Britain was against an EU army.

So yes, it is certainly a pity that we lose 14% of the GDP. The 50% of the Veto rights? Didn't know the EU had such an integrated foreign policy that the EU controlled the UK SCC seat (it doesn't so no loss there). So yes, everyone admits that the UK is better with the EU and the EU is better with the UK, but you wanted to leave and the terms you want a deal are not acceptable to the EU because the integrity of the EU is far more important than the purchasing power of the UK.


That article is 10 months old, it does not even mention rationing.

Please stop making things up.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:17 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
That article is 10 months old, it does not even mention rationing.

Please stop making things up.

UK Ministers for food rationing 1939-1958 and now again since 2018:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_ ... fare_(2018–_)

It is patently obvious that the Tory government is steering the UK back towards the glorious hunger days of rationing, just without an actually existing external enemy this time.

But they clearly count on an imaginary one doing the trick just as well.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:19 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


Do you have a source to suggest that the government is planning rationing?


I’m certainly not, it’s only prudent planning for business to have more stock at changeover untill business adjust to the new rules post exit day


UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit

And hopefully they do prepare for this, because they need to prepare for all eventualities and what everyone can agree on is that there will be disruption in international trade and food is very much part of it.


A) You have sourced the Guardian
B) That does not constitute evidence that rationing will be brought in.

Please stop presenting speculation as fact.


No speculation, your government, your colleagues are thinking about different scenario's, rationing is one. They are preparing for it and rightfully so. Will it be necessary, hopefully not, but with a hard Brexit, who knows. This is what you want, break with the EU, clean, so no more relationship exists, none. If preparing for rationing makes you uncomfortable, so be it, no reason to do a personal attack.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:21 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
That article is 10 months old, it does not even mention rationing.

Please stop making things up.


Does that matter? Ten months ago there was a potential for a hard Brexit and the situation hasn't changed. If anything, a hard Brexit is more likely than ten months ago.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:27 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit

And hopefully they do prepare for this, because they need to prepare for all eventualities and what everyone can agree on is that there will be disruption in international trade and food is very much part of it.




A) You have sourced the Guardian
B) That does not constitute evidence that rationing will be brought in.

Please stop presenting speculation as fact.


No speculation, your government, your colleagues are thinking about different scenario's, rationing is one. They are preparing for it and rightfully so. Will it be necessary, hopefully not, but with a hard Brexit, who knows. This is what you want, break with the EU, clean, so no more relationship exists, none. If preparing for rationing makes you uncomfortable, so be it, no reason to do a personal attack.


It is not a personal attack.

You are presenting tabloid speculation and your own interpretation as fact.

It is not fact.

Please do not present your opinions as fact when they are not.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:30 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
That article is 10 months old, it does not even mention rationing.

Please stop making things up.

UK Ministers for food rationing 1939-1958 and now again since 2018:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_ ... fare_(2018–_)

It is patently obvious that the Tory government is steering the UK back towards the glorious hunger days of rationing, just without an actually existing external enemy this time.

But they clearly count on an imaginary one doing the trick just as well.


So you are relying on wikipedia to compare a Ministerial Role during WW2 to a role today. This is no fact. There is no evidence whatsoever other than cry baby remoaners who are trying to pull out all stops of fear in the attempt to stop our leaving.

There is no evidence whatsoever that food will be rationed in the UK. You can speculate all you like, but it not fact. Simples.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:34 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:



A) You have sourced the Guardian
B) That does not constitute evidence that rationing will be brought in.

Please stop presenting speculation as fact.


No speculation, your government, your colleagues are thinking about different scenario's, rationing is one. They are preparing for it and rightfully so. Will it be necessary, hopefully not, but with a hard Brexit, who knows. This is what you want, break with the EU, clean, so no more relationship exists, none. If preparing for rationing makes you uncomfortable, so be it, no reason to do a personal attack.


It is not a personal attack.

You are presenting tabloid speculation and your own interpretation as fact.

It is not fact.

Please do not present your opinions as fact when they are not.


So there is no minister of Food? That is a fact. They are preparing, that is a fact. No interpretation, no opinion, just fact.

And the Guardian is a tabloid? Don't tell them that they might be rightfully offended.

So what is exactly your problem with it?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:39 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

No speculation, your government, your colleagues are thinking about different scenario's, rationing is one. They are preparing for it and rightfully so. Will it be necessary, hopefully not, but with a hard Brexit, who knows. This is what you want, break with the EU, clean, so no more relationship exists, none. If preparing for rationing makes you uncomfortable, so be it, no reason to do a personal attack.


It is not a personal attack.

You are presenting tabloid speculation and your own interpretation as fact.

It is not fact.

Please do not present your opinions as fact when they are not.


So there is no minister of Food? That is a fact. They are preparing, that is a fact. No interpretation, no opinion, just fact.

And the Guardian is a tabloid? Don't tell them that they might be rightfully offended.

So what is exactly your problem with it?


It is published as tabloid size now. It is as much of a rag as any of them. They regularly misinterpret things any way.

And just because there is a minister of agriculture and food, this does not equate to future rationing.

Stop getting ahead of yourself and automatically assuming the worse. Lets see what happens.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:39 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
That article is 10 months old, it does not even mention rationing.

Please stop making things up.

UK Ministers for food rationing 1939-1958 and now again since 2018:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_ ... fare_(2018–_)

It is patently obvious that the Tory government is steering the UK back towards the glorious hunger days of rationing, just without an actually existing external enemy this time.

But they clearly count on an imaginary one doing the trick just as well.


So you are relying on wikipedia to compare a Ministerial Role during WW2 to a role today. This is no fact. There is no evidence whatsoever other than cry baby remoaners who are trying to pull out all stops of fear in the attempt to stop our leaving.

There is no evidence whatsoever that food will be rationed in the UK. You can speculate all you like, but it not fact. Simples.


So you can guarantee that there will be no food shortages? You can guarantee there will be no disruptions in international food trade? You can guarantee that nobody will go hungry because of Brexit? If not, it is the sane and logical thing to do to prepare for food rationing.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

It is not a personal attack.

You are presenting tabloid speculation and your own interpretation as fact.

It is not fact.

Please do not present your opinions as fact when they are not.


So there is no minister of Food? That is a fact. They are preparing, that is a fact. No interpretation, no opinion, just fact.

And the Guardian is a tabloid? Don't tell them that they might be rightfully offended.

So what is exactly your problem with it?


It is published as tabloid size now. It is as much of a rag as any of them. They regularly misinterpret things any way.

And just because there is a minister of agriculture and food, this does not equate to future rationing.

Stop getting ahead of yourself and automatically assuming the worse. Lets see what happens.


They are preparing for it, if that will be the case depends on the circumstances. Be prepared for the worst, one of the tasks of Government, wouldn't you say.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
UK Ministers for food rationing 1939-1958 and now again since 2018:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_ ... fare_(2018–_)

It is patently obvious that the Tory government is steering the UK back towards the glorious hunger days of rationing, just without an actually existing external enemy this time.

But they clearly count on an imaginary one doing the trick just as well.


So you are relying on wikipedia to compare a Ministerial Role during WW2 to a role today. This is no fact. There is no evidence whatsoever other than cry baby remoaners who are trying to pull out all stops of fear in the attempt to stop our leaving.

There is no evidence whatsoever that food will be rationed in the UK. You can speculate all you like, but it not fact. Simples.


So you can guarantee that there will be no food shortages? You can guarantee there will be no disruptions in international food trade? You can guarantee that nobody will go hungry because of Brexit? If not, it is the sane and logical thing to do to prepare for food rationing.


Who knows what will happen.

But I am not putting forward my non-expert opinion and presenting it as fact am I?

LOL.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:43 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

So there is no minister of Food? That is a fact. They are preparing, that is a fact. No interpretation, no opinion, just fact.

And the Guardian is a tabloid? Don't tell them that they might be rightfully offended.

So what is exactly your problem with it?


It is published as tabloid size now. It is as much of a rag as any of them. They regularly misinterpret things any way.

And just because there is a minister of agriculture and food, this does not equate to future rationing.

Stop getting ahead of yourself and automatically assuming the worse. Lets see what happens.


They are preparing for it, if that will be the case depends on the circumstances. Be prepared for the worst, one of the tasks of Government, wouldn't you say.


Are they preparing for it?

Can you provide some government papers please that confirm that rationing is being considered.

Some objective evidence please.

Or are just back to speculating again???
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:44 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Who knows what will happen.

But I am not putting forward my non-expert opinion and presenting it as fact am I?

LOL.


Well...... you are arguing for Brexit for all kinds of silly reasons.....

Anyhow, I said: "The government is preparing for food rationing"

And that is exactly what they are doing, just being prepared, that is a fact, not an opinion. So if you have a complaint, fine, but this is just complete and utterly silly argument.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Who knows what will happen.

But I am not putting forward my non-expert opinion and presenting it as fact am I?

LOL.


Anyhow, I said: "The government is preparing for food rationing"

And that is exactly what they are doing, just being prepared, that is a fact, not an opinion. .


Evidence please that this is being discussed by this Government.

Meeting minutes, project plans, whatever you want.

But objective evidence please.

Or we’ll all just have to assume you are presenting your opinion as fact again.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:58 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Who knows what will happen.

But I am not putting forward my non-expert opinion and presenting it as fact am I?

LOL.


Anyhow, I said: "The government is preparing for food rationing"

And that is exactly what they are doing, just being prepared, that is a fact, not an opinion. .


Evidence please that this is being discussed by this Government.

Meeting minutes, project plans, whatever you want.

But objective evidence please.

Or we’ll all just have to assume you are presenting your opinion as fact again.

They have just revived the whole post whose primary purpose is food rationing and which has not existed since food rationing had ended in the 1950s.

It is completely self-evident that this is the purpose given that especially the crash-out Brexit Johnson and Cummings want will simply require rationing if you don't just want people fighting over dwindling supplies in supermarket aisles.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eal-brexit

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get some extra food and other essentials. The government is preparing for food rationing, so why not be on the safe side.



Do you have a source to suggest that the government is planning rationing?


I’m certainly not, it’s only prudent planning for business to have more stock at changeover untill business adjust to the new rules post exit day


UK appoints food supplies minister amid fears of no-deal Brexit

And hopefully they do prepare for this, because they need to prepare for all eventualities and what everyone can agree on is that there will be disruption in international trade and food is very much part of it.


I don’t see anything remotely about rationing delays yes at the border until the new system is up and running but nothing long term to worry about.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Anyhow, I said: "The government is preparing for food rationing"

And that is exactly what they are doing, just being prepared, that is a fact, not an opinion. .


Evidence please that this is being discussed by this Government.

Meeting minutes, project plans, whatever you want.

But objective evidence please.

Or we’ll all just have to assume you are presenting your opinion as fact again.

They have just revived the whole post whose primary purpose is food rationing and which has not existed since food rationing had ended in the 1950s.

It is completely self-evident that this is the purpose given that especially the crash-out Brexit Johnson and Cummings want will simply require rationing if you don't just want people fighting over dwindling supplies in supermarket aisles.


I give up. I can’t deal with you Europeans any longer.

Believe what you like if it makes you happy and feel superior.

I won’t post any more, but I’ll be back in November after no deal has happened and we can review everyones expert insight into how they knew how the future would pan out.
Last edited by noviorbis77 on Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Number6
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Here’s an interesting article published just 11 hours ago by the New Statesman.

“In the event of a no-deal Brexit, Boris Johnson is reportedly planning to buy almost the entirety of Wales’s lambs.

Quite what the Prime Minister plans to do with £500m of lambs is not clear. “Are we going to give schoolchildren lamb stew, but no fruit and vegetables?” asks an audibly frustrated Tim Lang, a professor of food policy at London’s City University.”

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/b ... ng-no-deal

It also links to an article by that appears in the medical journal “The Lancet” that talks about the very real fear of food shortages. The article includes all its references at the bottom of the page, and that includes a report from the House of Lords.

Said report has also been picked up by Independent and the Times. Of course I’m sure this will be dismissed, but the Lancet article is well researched and transparent.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:27 pm

Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.

See "delusions of grandeur", combined with an inability to recognize the impact of Brexit, especially the crash-out one aimed for by the new government.



Nope just realty of uk capability
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:36 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
I give up. I can’t deal with you Europeans any longer.

Believe what you like if it makes you happy and feel superior.

If you see someone making a horrible mistake, is the only possible motivation you can think of for warning them about it to "feel superior"?

I know that feeling superior is the whole emotional lure in the europhobic Brexit ideology, but outside of the Brexit bubble that is not how the world works.

Real mistakes have real consequences, and the re-opening of the ministry for food rationing is even the (May) Tory government clearly anticipating at least some of those consequences.

Or why do you think they've reactivated an administrative office which had been made redundant by the end of food rationing after WWII?

I won’t post any more, but I’ll be back in November after no deal has happened and we can review everyones expert insight into how they knew how the future would pan out.

Given that all Brexit promises have already fallen apart so far when impacted by reality, it's unlikely to be much different then.

(See "They need us more than we need them!", "The german car manufacturers will force the EU to back down!" and of course "Trade with the EU will be no worse after Brexit! Of course there will still be full access to the Single Market!")
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:37 pm

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
All that shows is that there is a market that the UK can tap into to help replace the food bowl of EU imports, but the main point of difference between the UK-NZ in the EU context is that the UK accounts for roughly 14% of the EU’s GDP,and can contribute roughly 40% of its global military power, about 45% of its nuclear capability, and 50% of its veto rights at the UN Security Council, I don’t know about you but the UK brings a lot to the table for the EU that most remainers dismiss as being insignificant.

See "delusions of grandeur", combined with an inability to recognize the impact of Brexit, especially the crash-out one aimed for by the new government.



Nope just realty of uk capability

As imagined, yeah, not as actually present at the time. That's the point.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:49 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Anyhow, I said: "The government is preparing for food rationing"

And that is exactly what they are doing, just being prepared, that is a fact, not an opinion. .


Evidence please that this is being discussed by this Government.

Meeting minutes, project plans, whatever you want.

But objective evidence please.

Or we’ll all just have to assume you are presenting your opinion as fact again.

They have just revived the whole post whose primary purpose is food rationing and which has not existed since food rationing had ended in the 1950s.

It is completely self-evident that this is the purpose given that especially the crash-out Brexit Johnson and Cummings want will simply require rationing if you don't just want people fighting over dwindling supplies in supermarket aisles.


All of this means at this stage they are centralising food under one ministry,That doesn’t mean they will be rationing food Just that they are prioritising importation of food over nonessential items like cars.I am speculating that this also means that Ministry will prioritise looking for alternate sources of food Importation
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 pm

Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
See "delusions of grandeur", combined with an inability to recognize the impact of Brexit, especially the crash-out one aimed for by the new government.



Nope just realty of uk capability

As imagined, yeah, not as actually present at the time. That's the point.


Does anyone else in the union besides France have that capability to respond to global events and have the capbilty to sustain it independently?
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:44 pm

I haven’t got a subscription and I can’t read whole article, but it seems the delays at the border may be overplayed,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... es-french/

The head of the French channel ports has dismissed warnings of Brexit chaos on the Dover-Calais trade route as irresponsible scare-mongering by political agitators.

"The British authorities have been doing a great deal to prepare. People say they are asleep but I can assure you that they are highly professional and they are ready," said Jean-Marc Puissesseau, president of Port Boulogne Calais.

"There are certain individuals in the UK who are whipping up this catastrophism for their own reasons. This has provoked a lot of concern but basically ‘c’est la bullsh**’. Nothing is going to happen the day after Brexit” he told the The Telegraph

 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:01 am

If anybody wants a laugh, have a look at the original Brexit thread from 2016 and try to decide which comment has aged the worst. So many to choose from. :biggrin: :rotfl:


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1336101


sabenapilot wrote:
It's getting clearer by the day what the real aim is in the minds of all those who run the show in Brexit Britain:
turn the UK into a US style economy with much lower levels of protection for millions of ordinary Brits when it comes to their social, environmental and consumer rights!
In the minds of those who cooked up Brexit, Brexit wasn't a goal in itself, but rather just a mean to achieve all they had long been dreaming of: taking back control of laws and money was not just out of principle, it was to radically change the way in which they are being used right now and believe me, it's not to spend more on or to offer more rights to working class Britts.
I wonder how many of those who voted for Brexit (when it was presented as a goal in itself) would have voted for the real goal (i.e. to turn the UK into a US style of economy)?

I don't think you're wrong at all and I think that this is why brexiteers don't care one bit about causing the break up of the UK. With Scotland and NI gone, there will be a massive right wing majority (tory or otherwise) in parliament which will be able to absolutely destroy food safety regulations, worker protections, environmental regulation, anti pollution legislation, the NHS, privatise everything they possibly can and turn the UK into a bigger tax haven than it already is. Most of the brexiteer demographic rabbidly support all of these things.
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:20 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Clues for Brexit Future May Be Found on Islands Far, Far Away

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

But no comparison is perfect of course:
"New Zealanders have no delusions of grandeur whatsoever, while the U.K.’s sense of importance could make the comedown even more painful."


One of our best national charicteristics. I think this one of those things that the UK is still unaware of. They think everybody loves and respects them but in New Zealand, even many years after they screwed us, there is still a huge amount of animosity. Why have they only started caring about trade with us now. :roll: I say screw 'em. Sadly our lovely Prime Minister is far too diplomatic to say that. Why would we sign a deal with them when they're going to be forced to reduce all tarrifs to zero anyway?

What followed was two decades of anemic growth. Real GDP per capita gains averaged just a fraction of the years before. The country was forced to embark on a painful restructuring program, slashing subsidies and privatizing many state assets, including energy companies, airports and even forests. According to Llewellyn, that made Margaret Thatcher’s reforms of the 1980s look “quite mild by comparison.”



And here is the critical bits. Boris, Nigel and their mates don't care about a long term recession so long as they can buy state assets from a cash strapped government at knock down prices. Why would they?

All of the privatisation did huge damage to the country. But it made a few people (Fay, Richwhite and many of their peers) very wealthy.
First to fly the 787-9
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:22 am

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Evidence please that this is being discussed by this Government.

Meeting minutes, project plans, whatever you want.

But objective evidence please.

Or we’ll all just have to assume you are presenting your opinion as fact again.

They have just revived the whole post whose primary purpose is food rationing and which has not existed since food rationing had ended in the 1950s.

It is completely self-evident that this is the purpose given that especially the crash-out Brexit Johnson and Cummings want will simply require rationing if you don't just want people fighting over dwindling supplies in supermarket aisles.


All of this means at this stage they are centralising food under one ministry,That doesn’t mean they will be rationing food Just that they are prioritising importation of food over nonessential items like cars.I am speculating that this also means that Ministry will prioritise looking for alternate sources of food Importation


Quite the elaborate circumlocution for rationing...

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
I won’t post any more, but I’ll be back in November after no deal has happened and we can review everyones expert insight into how they knew how the future would pan out.

Given that all Brexit promises have already fallen apart so far when impacted by reality, it's unlikely to be much different then.


It almost feels like we have read stuff along that line before the March deadline as well. Funnily I will again be on vacation over that date, and I have the feeling the UK wont be out anymore than it was the last time I came back.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:21 am

You realise what rationing is don’t you?

ration: allow each person to have only a fixed amount of (a commodity).

Has anyone remotely said such a thing is about to be introduced?

My speculation on the Ministry of Food is to ensure the supply in a timely manner in this case increasing supply lines from other sources other than the EU. The only people talking rationing are pro remain trying to put the wind up people.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:07 am

A101 wrote:
My speculation on the Ministry of Food is to ensure the supply in a timely manner in this case increasing supply lines from other sources other than the EU. The only people talking rationing are pro remain trying to put the wind up people.


Serious question, why get it from other sources than the EU? The problem is that the UK is going to crash out of every trade deal it has, so it doesn't matter from which country it is going to source its food from, it is all done on WTO rules.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:10 am

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:


Nope just realty of uk capability

As imagined, yeah, not as actually present at the time. That's the point.


Does anyone else in the union besides France have that capability to respond to global events and have the capbilty to sustain it independently?


Do you wish to crash out NATO as well? If not, this point is mute.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:14 am

zkojq wrote:
If anybody wants a laugh, have a look at the original Brexit thread from 2016 and try to decide which comment has aged the worst. So many to choose from. :biggrin: :rotfl:


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1336101



Perhaps this summarizes the whole Brexit debate it best:

mikey345 wrote:
I've voted leave :) god help us
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 6: Encore un moment Monsieur le Bourreau

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:21 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
My speculation on the Ministry of Food is to ensure the supply in a timely manner in this case increasing supply lines from other sources other than the EU. The only people talking rationing are pro remain trying to put the wind up people.


Serious question, why get it from other sources than the EU? The problem is that the UK is going to crash out of every trade deal it has, so it doesn't matter from which country it is going to source its food from, it is all done on WTO rules.



Incorrect the uk have a number of mutual recognition agreements in place for trade so if we have tariffs with the EU those MRA rolloveron exitday under the same conditions as we currently have

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