Airstud
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The correct planned state capital

Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:49 pm

is Albany.
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LittleFokker
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Not 100% sure what "planned" state capital means, but I'll go with Carson City, NV. It's the only capital city outside of Virginia to be labelled an "independent city."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independe ... ted_States)
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:34 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Not 100% sure what "planned" state capital means, but I'll go with Carson City, NV. It's the only capital city outside of Virginia to be labelled an "independent city."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independe ... ted_States)

I'm guessing Airstud meant "planned" as in laid out with the thought of the city being the state capitol in mind as opposed to cities that became capitols organically or by default.

Carson City merged with Ormsby County in 1969, at which point Ormsby County was dissolved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_city_(United_States)

Until quite recently, Carson City was also the only state capitol in the continental US not connected to the interstate highway system.
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:39 am

Carson City! Bonanza!
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:48 am

I'd be curious to know how many state capitals were planned as such in the first place.
 
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:57 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Carson City! Bonanza!

Bonanza got quite a few things right story-wise, but after having visited the place on Lake Tahoe where the Ponderosa Ranch was supposed to be located, Carson City, and Virginia City, I can say without a doubt that the Bonanza writers were full of crap when they'd have one of the characters say "We're gonna ride over to Virginia City real quick" or words to that effect because it takes the better part of an hour to go from the closest part of Lake Tahoe to Virginia City now in a car, on good roads, and in good weather. Back in cowboy days, it would have been a full day's ride each way, minimum, down one steep mountain, across a somewhat narrow valley, and up another steep mountain to get from one place to the other.
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:13 am

TSS wrote:

Until quite recently, Carson City was also the only state capitol in the continental US not connected to the interstate highway system.


Umm Jefferson City MO would like a word.
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:29 am

I'm afraid you'll find the correct planned state capital would be the Federal Territory of Putrajaya, Malaysia.
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:52 am

T18 wrote:
TSS wrote:

Until quite recently, Carson City was also the only state capitol in the continental US not connected to the interstate highway system.


Umm Jefferson City MO would like a word.

Apparently informational leaflets handed out in local museums don't always get fact-checked before printing. Mea culpa, and my lesson has been learned. Also it was a moot point anyway because there's now a spur from I-80 in Reno down to Carson City.
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Airstud
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:43 am

See, I was in downtown Albany this morning for the first time ever. I was impressed by the architecture and by how well-laid out the area around the capitol is.

Plus I like how different the capitol is from most other ones. It's not another "dome from Rome."

I remember when I first saw New York City's old main post office on 8th Avenue and thought, "That there building has so very, very many columns. I wonder if there is a building in existence with more columns."

And then this morning I drove past the State Education Building. :eek:

Colonnade copiousness aside, that building, the capitol, Empire State Plaza, the state office buildings, cathedral - all fit together very nicely.

That's what I mean by "planned" state capital. Boston, an awesome city by nearly any measure, is a state capital también; but not really a "planned" city. :boggled:
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:45 am

TSS wrote:
Also it was a moot point anyway because there's now a spur from I-80 in Reno down to Carson City.

Not sure if an auxiliary interstate counts as a full-fledged interstate, but for the purposes of it, let's say it does.

TSS wrote:
Until quite recently, Carson City was also the only state capitol in the continental US not connected to the interstate highway system.

Dover, DE, and Pierre, SD also don't have interstate roads. And if we're gonna get technical, Alaska is part of the continental US (but not the contiguous US), so Juneau doesn't have a signed interstate either.

Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico have roads that are recognized by the Interstate system. Hawaii's interstate roads, however, are the only ones signed as such (H-1, H-2, and H-3). Alaska's and Puerto Rico's interstates are local highways that are funded by the interstate system, but do not carry the interstate sign and were not built for the interstate system.
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seb146
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:59 am

Olympia was planned as a compromise between people wanting Seattle as the capital and people wanting Vancouver as the capital. The Yukon Gold Rush and timber barrons started in Seattle but Vancouver had been established since the 1700s by Hudson's Bay Company at Ft. Vancouver.

I do like Carson City. It is one of four states where the legislature meets in a building other than the chartered state house. NC, AL, AZ, are the others.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:03 am

Airstud wrote:
Plus I like how different the capitol is from most other ones. It's not another "dome from Rome."

Plenty of other state capitols don't look like a "dome from Rome". Alaska's state capitol looks more like a corporate building. And Nebraska's and Louisiana's capitol are really just a tower.

This Wiki article has pictures of the current capitol buildings.

Airstud wrote:
That's what I mean by "planned" state capital. Boston, an awesome city by nearly any measure, is a state capital también; but not really a "planned" city. :boggled:

You can technically say that all cities founded after US independence were planned cities. Boston is a colonial capital. Albany is a colonial capital. Lincoln, Pierre, Olympia, and Phoenix were settled later on. The difference between Boston and Albany is that Boston is MA's most populated city whereas Albany is not NY's. There's incentive to make a city be efficient when not too many people live there to begin with.
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seb146
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:33 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Plus I like how different the capitol is from most other ones. It's not another "dome from Rome."

Plenty of other state capitols don't look like a "dome from Rome". Alaska's state capitol looks more like a corporate building. And Nebraska's and Louisiana's capitol are really just a tower.

This Wiki article has pictures of the current capitol buildings.


North Dakota, too, if I am not mistaken. Hawaii's capital building is a cube. It is really wonderful. We got a private tour, simply because no one else showed up at the start time for the tour.

einsteinboricua wrote:
Airstud wrote:
That's what I mean by "planned" state capital. Boston, an awesome city by nearly any measure, is a state capital también; but not really a "planned" city. :boggled:

You can technically say that all cities founded after US independence were planned cities. Boston is a colonial capital. Albany is a colonial capital. Lincoln, Pierre, Olympia, and Phoenix were settled later on. The difference between Boston and Albany is that Boston is MA's most populated city whereas Albany is not NY's. There's incentive to make a city be efficient when not too many people live there to begin with.


I think Salem should be included. The first two capital buildings were destroyed by fire. The current building was built in the art deco style and completed in the 1930s.
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Airstud
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:19 pm

Folks, tell me whatever you can about Albany.

I was so charmed by the architecture & layout that I'm going to be all about Albany for the next few weeks. :smile:
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:14 am

Jeff city is my favorite of course.
 
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:56 am

For Jeff city,i have only been there one.
 
Pyrex
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:42 am

There is no such thing as a correct planned capital, whether for a state or a country (e.g., Washington D.C., Brasilia). No place should live almost exclusively on politicians and the people who hang around them, as pretty soon you will lose any perspective of reality and who you are supposed to be there to represent.
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slider
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Irrespective of "planned" or not, I always find it fascinating to hear stories of how and why US state capitols relocated. There's a lot of state history in just that singular thing.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:44 am

Albany was a better choice than New York City as capitol of New York State since Albany is centrally located and gives other parts of the state more say in state matters.
 
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:45 pm

Albany is “planned” only in the sense Nelson Rockefeller as governor wanted a monument to himself.

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DaProf
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:34 pm

Not a huge fan, but then again it is the city that gave us Steamed Hams
 
slider
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:22 pm

slider wrote:
Irrespective of "planned" or not, I always find it fascinating to hear stories of how and why US state capitols relocated. There's a lot of state history in just that singular thing.


Exactly. A lot of them followed whatever pioneering industry or population center and migrated over time. Most US states had different capitals than they do now, actually, going back to territorial days. Most of these followed population centers and access to railroads and later highways.





Although I never learned why Augusta, ME was the capital and not Portland. Anyone know?
 
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 pm

slider wrote:
Although I never learned why Augusta, ME was the capital and not Portland. Anyone know?

This seems like a reasonable explanation.
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Dieuwer
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:53 pm

Airstud wrote:
See, I was in downtown Albany this morning for the first time ever. I was impressed by the architecture and by how well-laid out the area around the capitol is.

Plus I like how different the capitol is from most other ones. It's not another "dome from Rome.":


It is instead another "Hotel de Ville from France".
 
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:51 am

TSS wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Carson City! Bonanza!

Bonanza got quite a few things right story-wise, but after having visited the place on Lake Tahoe where the Ponderosa Ranch was supposed to be located, Carson City, and Virginia City, I can say without a doubt that the Bonanza writers were full of crap when they'd have one of the characters say "We're gonna ride over to Virginia City real quick" or words to that effect because it takes the better part of an hour to go from the closest part of Lake Tahoe to Virginia City now in a car, on good roads, and in good weather. Back in cowboy days, it would have been a full day's ride each way, minimum, down one steep mountain, across a somewhat narrow valley, and up another steep mountain to get from one place to the other.

How far from there to the Donner Pass Family Barbecue?

I stopped there, the ribs were delicious.

PS: CT, MA, and NH are not just "domes like Rome", they are "golden domes like Rome".

Given that I grew up in the Northeast, I just presumed every state capital building had a golden dome on top.
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Airstud
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:05 am

How did ArchGuy find this 5-month old post...

:boggled:
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Tugger
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:13 am

Airstud wrote:
How did ArchGuy find this 5-month old post...

:boggled:

Bots are if anything persistent.... :spin:

As to the correct planned state capitol, go check Nur-Sultan, Kazakhstan. :wave:

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Airstud
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:18 am

Is Kazakhstan safe (relatively)?

I have a cuz who has visited a lot of those Near East/Central Asian countries and finds them utterly fascinating.

I do not know if I would be safe there though. :/
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slider
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:30 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
slider wrote:
Although I never learned why Augusta, ME was the capital and not Portland. Anyone know?

This seems like a reasonable explanation.



Aha! Thank you! I could have Goggled it myself, just figured the brain trust here usually possesses such knowledge. That makes sense. Equidistant roughly betwixt Bangor and PWM, compromise solution. Like DC's location in some ways.
 
slider
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:05 pm

Airstud wrote:
Is Kazakhstan safe (relatively)?

I have a cuz who has visited a lot of those Near East/Central Asian countries and finds them utterly fascinating.

I do not know if I would be safe there though. :/


Yes- Almaty is a beautiful city, didn't have any issues there!
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:13 pm

Tugger wrote:
Airstud wrote:
How did ArchGuy find this 5-month old post...

:boggled:

Bots are if anything persistent.... :spin:

As to the correct planned state capitol, go check Nur-Sultan, Kazakhstan. :wave:

Tugg


Kazakhstan is not a “state” (in a secondary division of a country sense), though.

On the other hand, although not quite a “planned” capital, Ashgabat is even more fascinating...it is just, well, a strange city.

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Re: The correct planned state capital

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:34 pm

slider wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
slider wrote:
Although I never learned why Augusta, ME was the capital and not Portland. Anyone know?

This seems like a reasonable explanation.



Aha! Thank you! I could have Goggled it myself, just figured the brain trust here usually possesses such knowledge. That makes sense. Equidistant roughly betwixt Bangor and PWM, compromise solution. Like DC's location in some ways.

I think, as is the case of many state capitals, centrally located is a benefit. It's usually the colonial capitals that weren't planned in such a way.

Bismarck, however, is an interesting case because even though it's centrally located for North Dakota, it was the capital of the Dakota territory and South Dakotans weren't too happy to have a capital so far away from them. Yankton, SD was the original Dakota Territory capital until it was moved to Bismarck. Because the main population centers at the time were on the eastern edges of the territory (Fargo and Sioux Falls) but several hundred miles from each other (and pressured by Republicans at the federal level to increase their power in the Senate), the Dakota Territory was split, with Bismarck as the capital of North Dakota and Sioux Falls for South Dakota (later changed to Pierre upon actual statehood).
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slider
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Re: The correct planned state capital

Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:33 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
slider wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
This seems like a reasonable explanation.



Aha! Thank you! I could have Goggled it myself, just figured the brain trust here usually possesses such knowledge. That makes sense. Equidistant roughly betwixt Bangor and PWM, compromise solution. Like DC's location in some ways.

I think, as is the case of many state capitals, centrally located is a benefit. It's usually the colonial capitals that weren't planned in such a way.

Bismarck, however, is an interesting case because even though it's centrally located for North Dakota, it was the capital of the Dakota territory and South Dakotans weren't too happy to have a capital so far away from them. Yankton, SD was the original Dakota Territory capital until it was moved to Bismarck. Because the main population centers at the time were on the eastern edges of the territory (Fargo and Sioux Falls) but several hundred miles from each other (and pressured by Republicans at the federal level to increase their power in the Senate), the Dakota Territory was split, with Bismarck as the capital of North Dakota and Sioux Falls for South Dakota (later changed to Pierre upon actual statehood).


Good stuff. They should relocate the SD capital to Deadwood. :)

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