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EA CO AS
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Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:21 pm

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... bt-1284286


So, let me get this straight; I chose to make a responsible decision by not taking on crushing student loans to complete a degree, but those who irresponsibly took out $50K to get a degree in fields that aren’t in demand should get bailed out via the taxpayers?

Unbelievable.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:27 pm

It's ok she will be gone the day after Iowa. She can drink all the beer she wants, call Trump a racist all day long. She is a mentally challenged individual trying to cash in on the Trump derangement in the next election cycle.
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
Airstud
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:30 pm

The article said there's no specific legislation yet. I'd be ok with some form of it. Economically disadvantaged youth set out to study business, nursing, engineering - worthy of some help from taxpayers. (The taxpayers employed by business, cared for by nurses, use bridges and buildings that don't collapse.)

Kid who studied basket-weaving, meditation, womxn's studies? Buh-bye.
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Tugger
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:33 pm

Couldn't the same be said for everyone having to fund normal public school, even those that do not use the system. Or similar be said for those in flood zones that are bailed out year after year and provided either subsidized insurance or are "insured after the fact" when another flood comes along and destroys their home?

This is at least proposing a funding mechanism.

And for the record I am actually not in support of this idea. If something is done then it must cover all skilled trades as well. If I were to implement such a thing I would tie its funding to future taxes that attach first/immediately to those who take advantage of it then, over something like a ten plus year time frame, then increase funding across the tax payer spectrum as needed. Additionally I would have a firm limit of the amount allowed to prevent the current endless increases and cost growth that occurs when "free money" (easily obtained money by those with little developed financial skill or understanding) becomes available.

Tugg
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:42 pm

Count me as a liberal against the idea. I am for rewriting the conditions such that the interest rate is significantly lower and people are able to truly pay off their loans. I am for providing aid to those who serve the country in a government position or by being teachers, doctors, etc.. I am not for wiping away debt as if nothing.

I will echo Airstud's reply: if you decided to spend 6 years in college and your biggest achievement is a paper on Women's Role in 16th Century English Literature, sorry. If you spent 10 years and became a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, by all means. Arts and social sciences are important, don't get me wrong. But I would prefer to create incentive to people whose careers will be in demand.
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casinterest
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:53 pm

I am not in favor of Eliminating Student Loans. We have Pell Grants for the underprivileged and scholarships for the students that show initiative and qualify. There are collegiate endowments that can fund other students.

Those that take on the debt should be shown their monthly payments and the amount of people that qualify for a job in the field of study they choose, from the school they attend, to be more conscientious of the loan they take on.

If the cancel debt for these kids, I want my tuition back :)


I do support legislation for funding more post secondary school education, but it needs to be a separate issue form existing loans
Last edited by casinterest on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brick
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:59 pm

The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans, and etc.

Any time the government subsidizes anything, the cost of that anything goes up directly proportional to the amount of subsidy that is provided. If the government announced today that it will offer $500 to everyone to purchase a new phone, the cost of new phones will immediately increase by $500 across the board.

The best thing we can do for higher education in the United States is to eliminate the involvement of government.
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:07 pm

Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans.



This.

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.

Sorry, but if you want to pay five or six figures to enjoy the “college experience” of living on campus and having everything paid for, don’t expect the public to bail you out when the bill comes due.

Quoting Judge Elihu Smails, “Well, the world needs ditch-diggers, too!”
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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casinterest
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:12 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans.



This.

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.

Sorry, but if you want to pay five or six figures to enjoy the “college experience” of living on campus and having everything paid for, don’t expect the public to bail you out when the bill comes due.

Quoting Judge Elihu Smails, “Well, the world needs ditch-diggers, too!”


No. We fund education because we need educated people, and we also need for people to go someplace outside of their comfort zone to learn how the world works. A bunch of folks that didn't go to College got great jobs in the rust belt, and look how well that has worked out in the long run. Jobs go away, and people that are untrained are left with little place to go to replace higher union jobs.
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Aaron747
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:13 pm

I’m for changing loan conditions and means testing all student loans, but not for debt forgiveness. This is not like home loans where some shady outfit makes you wild promises about adjustable rates to morons who can’t read - people signing up for federal loans have the terms clearly spelled out when they do so.
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NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:29 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.


It's called entitlement. The MSM and current far left lawmakers have indoctrinated the current generation into thinking they are owed it and anyone who has done what you said by working hard didn't earn it and got it because they are "privileged"
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.


It's called entitlement. The MSM and current far left lawmakers have indoctrinated the current generation into thinking they are owed it and anyone who has done what you said by working hard didn't earn it and got it because they are "privileged"

As you can see by the response here in this thread, there is little widespread support on either side of this proposal. So please stop trying to present it as if it is the definitive mindset of an entire group of people.

That is a big part of the problem is the USA right now, various groups are trying to assign blanket values, plans, ideologies, and statements to other groups and stupidly many of the group making the prognostication are just blindly accepting such as truth and are discussing/arguing as if such is a fait accompli. No the "far left" has not indoctrinated the entire current generation into any one thought or thing. Just as the right wing hasn't done so for the entire current generation.

Try discussing it from your own moderated view point (moderated because we all have different views and needs and beliefs etc.).

Tugg
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:41 pm

I'm really pleased with the responses in this forum about this topic.

I really don't have much to add to what has already been said actually. Just that people need to be more realistic about what their degree is going to earn them, and whether or not they'll actually be able to support themselves with those earnings. When I selected my college for engineering I did so based on return on investment ratings. My college was a small public engineering school with a sole focus on engineering. 90% of the students were engineering majors. It allowed the school to be specialized and thus be much more affordable.

I think a general rule of thumb for most people to follow is to keep your student loan debt to starting salary ratio at 1.0 or lower.

I'll also echo the sentiments about trade schools. We need so many more people working the trades. There is a real shortage that is rarely discussed (Mike Rowe is probably the only one that really draws great attention to it). The flipside is that shortage has caused salaries and hourly wages to be quite nice for those in the trades. That's great for them.. not so much for us customers.
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:22 pm

Let's punish everyone because a few people study 15th Century French Literature. There are people with science and tech degrees who are drowning in crushing debt. They need to be punished because how dare they.

The problem is education as become for-profit, just like health care. Everyone makes stupid choices. That does not mean that none of us should have education or health care.

Let's remember that banks got too big to fail when they were throwing bad mortgages in with good. I feel this is kinda the same thing. Banks are handing out student loans and bundling them together then blaming students for wanting an education.
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:39 pm

I am in favor of allowing student debt to be purged in a personal bankruptcy. Don't see why it should be treated differently then any other personal debt.
 
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
Let's punish everyone because a few people study 15th Century French Literature. There are people with science and tech degrees who are drowning in crushing debt. They need to be punished because how dare they.


I don't think that people should be punished for studying, but as already mentioned, student loans do seem to cause both tuition inflation and educational inflation.

Also, simply studying tech or science, doesn't mean that you are getting a quality degree. The USA has many crappy school, and a few excellent ones.
 
winginit
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:26 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans.



This.

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.


More context is needed. The system ran as intended for years after the government got involved, as at the time government issued student loans were only for select degrees for select individuals in what was a very limited scope. The real issue is that the government handed processing over to loan servicers who saw it as a way to make a buck and then big banks got involved and saw it as a means of easy profit.

There's a great podcast on the history of student loans here and another one here that I would encourage everyone to listen to before they pretend to be experts on the topic.
 
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans, and etc.

Any time the government subsidizes anything, the cost of that anything goes up directly proportional to the amount of subsidy that is provided. If the government announced today that it will offer $500 to everyone to purchase a new phone, the cost of new phones will immediately increase by $500 across the board.

The best thing we can do for higher education in the United States is to eliminate the involvement of government.


Exactly. Another government-created crises. I watched this first-hand before, during, and after I went to school.

To see Warren and others float the idea of bailing people out is disgusting to me. It also sets a precedent that will force free higher education soon after.

winginit wrote:
More context is needed. The system ran as intended for years after the government got involved, as at the time government issued student loans were only for select degrees for select individuals in what was a very limited scope. The real issue is that the government handed processing over to loan servicers who saw it as a way to make a buck and then big banks got involved and saw it as a means of easy profit.

There's a great podcast on the history of student loans here and another one here that I would encourage everyone to listen to before they pretend to be experts on the topic.


I should have stopped reading at "NPR". Sorry, you're going to need better sources than that.
 
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:00 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
I should have stopped reading at "NPR". Sorry, you're going to need better sources than that.


Both are well cited accounts of student debt in this country and the mechanisms behind it. Whether or not you agree with the messenger or identify that messenger, in your opinion, as biased, is irrelevant. But hey, by all means, please do provide your preferred source's historical account of student debt in this country and the drivers behind where we currently stand. We'll wait.

For the record, many sources, both crowd-sourced and otherwise, see NPR as centrist when compared to other sources. You are in the minority if your opinion is to the contrary.
 
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:16 pm

winginit wrote:
Both are well cited accounts of student debt in this country and the mechanisms behind it. Whether or not you agree with the messenger or identify that messenger, in your opinion, as biased, is irrelevant. But hey, by all means, please do provide your preferred source's historical account of student debt in this country and the drivers behind where we currently stand. We'll wait.

For the record, many sources, both crowd-sourced and otherwise, see NPR as centrist when compared to other sources. You are in the minority if your opinion is to the contrary.


Pardon me for not wanting to be a brainwashed ignoramus - which is what a blank slate would be after reading the first article - and skipping/glossing them over before asking for better sources

Also pardon me for treating biased "bias checkers" the same way. Please provide good sources that can defeat the previously stated economics 101 of who/what caused this problem (good luck on that).
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:20 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
winginit wrote:
Both are well cited accounts of student debt in this country and the mechanisms behind it. Whether or not you agree with the messenger or identify that messenger, in your opinion, as biased, is irrelevant. But hey, by all means, please do provide your preferred source's historical account of student debt in this country and the drivers behind where we currently stand. We'll wait.

For the record, many sources, both crowd-sourced and otherwise, see NPR as centrist when compared to other sources. You are in the minority if your opinion is to the contrary.


Pardon me for not wanting to be a brainwashed ignoramus - which is what a blank slate would be after reading the first article - and skipping/glossing them over before asking for better sources

Also pardon me for treating biased "bias checkers" the same way. Please provide good sources that can defeat the previously stated economics 101 of who/what caused this problem (good luck on that).


Actually, I got a government backed loan for my degree. It is a frivolous degree, but the loan was backed by the government, and not a for-profit bank. The payments were low, so it did take a while to pay off, because I was stupid and paid only the minimum due every month. That was before Republicans decided private industry could do a better job.

Don't get me wrong, they did. Just not for We The People. Private industry made a killing for their share holders. For us, not so much.
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winginit
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:34 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
winginit wrote:
Both are well cited accounts of student debt in this country and the mechanisms behind it. Whether or not you agree with the messenger or identify that messenger, in your opinion, as biased, is irrelevant. But hey, by all means, please do provide your preferred source's historical account of student debt in this country and the drivers behind where we currently stand. We'll wait.

For the record, many sources, both crowd-sourced and otherwise, see NPR as centrist when compared to other sources. You are in the minority if your opinion is to the contrary.


Pardon me for not wanting to be a brainwashed ignoramus - which is what a blank slate would be after reading the first article - and skipping/glossing them over before asking for better sources

Also pardon me for treating biased "bias checkers" the same way. Please provide good sources that can defeat the previously stated economics 101 of who/what caused this problem (good luck on that).


Whether you choose to listen to the podcasts I posted matters not - I'm not here to curate information strictly from messengers that suit whatever criteria for objectivity you claim to have. You can listen to it, or not. I imagine others will find it helpful. Now shoo...
 
910A
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:14 pm

Sen. Warren is on to something here..The United States of America needs well-educated people for various positions now and the changing future, we already have enough dumber than dirt people. There is a reason why liberal arts degrees major are in demand in the tech world. They need people that can think a problem though using a different focus. Same with national intelligence organizations they want people with creativity, independence and critical thinking which some of you this aren't taught in majors that you're making fun of. If other develop countries have free higher education, why doesn't the United States? 45 years ago when I was in community college it was free. My four year school in another state was almost free, with the federal government picking up 100% of the tab. My government employer picked up 100% of the bill for my Master's. As recently as 25 years ago the federal government paid 100% of my wife's medical school bills. Again, some one better make a stronger argument why higher education can't be free. The government and banks shouldn't be making a profit off of students trying to better themselves. I should finish by saying that for each dollar being paid for student debt is one less dollar being spend in the local economy.
 
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:33 pm

The reason this doesn't happen in other places like Europe is because the government directly subsidizes the education just like high school instead of going through a hoopla of "student loans" and "need-based aid." NOT Privatization
That is the way it should be, if the government is going to get involved, do it directly.
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Tugger
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:39 pm

910A wrote:
\My government employer picked up 100% of the bill for my Master's. As recently as 25 years ago the federal government paid 100% of my wife's medical school bills. Again, some one better make a stronger argument why higher education can't be free.

These are very different situations from what I am seeing being proposed currently. Yours was paid for by your employer, not the government (regardless that the company was a government contractor). I very much support that type of system. At my government employer, a defense contractor, they did the same, but required good grades and had a few other stipulations (one of them being that you were employed!). And while I don't know your wife's exact situation, I know that there has been several program's over the years where schooling would be paid for if you agreed to work in certain underserved areas or went into underserved medical fields.

I think both of these are worth looking into as a way to fund further schooling.

Tugg
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NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:05 pm

Tugger wrote:

As you can see by the response here in this thread, there is little widespread support on either side of this proposal. So please stop trying to present it as if it is the definitive mindset of an entire group of people.

Tugg


Deny it all you want but it's there and it's prevalent. Warren is tapping into that primal fear and entitlement of a group of people that feel they don't have to pay for their education. It's pandering at it's worst.
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Deny it all you want but it's there and it's prevalent. Warren is tapping into that primal fear and entitlement of a group of people that feel they don't have to pay for their education. It's pandering at it's worst.

So can we admit then that Trump (and therefore) the right are xenophobes? Trump is clearly tapping into that primal fear of a group of people that feel that White Christians will soon become a minority. Deny it all you want but it's there and it's prevalent. See how an argument can be turned around? Or is the generalization only true when talking about Democrats?

What Warren is doing is what I feared Bernie would unleash after his candidacy and his commanding influence over the left wing of the Democrats: she's trying to be more to the left of Bernie. And now you'll find all the Democrats trying to be even more left, in the same manner that Republicans try to be as conservative as possible. For those of us who are true moderates, we don't buy what Warren is selling. This thread is a good example of it. We may support some aspects, but not what she's proposing.

And we have yet to see your thoughts on the subject. However, it seems you're the only one trying to derail what has otherwise been a respectful debate into the usual political squabbles.
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:28 pm

The hysterics and gyrations we are experiencing in our politics and political discourse are annoying. I prefer centrists, gutless, mealy mouthed, back room dealing, won't tow the party line (all the way), centrists.

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910A
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:29 pm

Tugger wrote:
910A wrote:
\My government employer picked up 100% of the bill for my Master's. As recently as 25 years ago the federal government paid 100% of my wife's medical school bills. Again, some one better make a stronger argument why higher education can't be free.

These are very different situations from what I am seeing being proposed currently. Yours was paid for by your employer, not the government (regardless that the company was a government contractor). I very much support that type of system. At my government employer, a defense contractor, they did the same, but required good grades and had a few other stipulations (one of them being that you were employed!). And while I don't know your wife's exact situation, I know that there has been several program's over the years where schooling would be paid for if you agreed to work in certain underserved areas or went into underserved medical fields.

I think both of these are worth looking into as a way to fund further schooling.

Tugg


Mine was paid for by my government employer (County) not a government contractor as you assumed. Trust me, you don't want government contractors in what agency I was working in.
 
910A
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:36 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
It's ok she will be gone the day after Iowa. She can drink all the beer she wants, call Trump a racist all day long. She is a mentally challenged individual trying to cash in on the Trump derangement in the next election cycle.


You call Senator Warren mentally challenged? That's really impressive for someone in your career field. Let see she got a law degree, worked as a professor including a stint at a Ivy League school, served as chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel of the Troubled Asset Relief Program and was instrumental in the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and you call her mentally challenged?

I don't have a issue with a difference in policy, but to name call, personally calling someone mentally challenged when you have zero skills in the mental health field is just nonsense.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:09 am

910A wrote:
I don't have a issue with a difference in policy, but to name call, personally calling someone mentally challenged when you have zero skills in the mental health field is just nonsense.


Yet everyone opposed to the current president calls everyone who supports him racist, xenophobes and misogynists.

Give me a break. :sarcastic:
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:32 am

NIKV69 wrote:
910A wrote:
I don't have a issue with a difference in policy, but to name call, personally calling someone mentally challenged when you have zero skills in the mental health field is just nonsense.


Yet everyone opposed to the current president calls everyone who supports him racist, xenophobes and misogynists.

Give me a break. :sarcastic:


That is stupid, granted.

There are folks in other threads arguing the WH accomplishments page is abject truth and when shown the facts about its fake economic statements, they say it’s ‘just optimistic’. In other discussions, when the real bipartisan history of immigration policy failure is coupled with the reality that agribusiness and construction love and lobby for cheap labor, they run away. As soon as they get called out by other supporters of 45, we can at least stop with blanket assumptions that ‘panzees are unintelligent, willfully or otherwise.
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WarRI1
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:22 am

I support the idea, the banks are making all the money as usual.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:44 am

I honestly don't get why you Americans are treating student loans as if it's a profit making business with high interest rates at 5% to 6% for a federal loan! It should be at the most 2%. The government should not be making a profit from its citizen. At the most, it can break even, but not make a bloody profit!

And let me not get started on private sector loans.

Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans, and etc.


Regulate it.

Honestly, I don't know why you people are so leery about regulations. Granted certain things should have less regulations, but some things should have more, and education is one of those things.
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sonicruiser
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:00 am

Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans, and etc.


No, this is incorrect. Cheap loans were not originally forecast against the outlook of predatory pricing that colleges have now decided to pursue. Don't try to spin this as the fault of the government, the fault lies with colleges, full stop. There was no justifiable reason for colleges to artificially jack up their prices other than because they could. Higher costs did not lead to students needing more loans, it's the other way around. The government made loans more accessible for those who needed it, and colleges essentially negated the effect of that as moot when they decided to charge more, aggravating the crisis for both those who were forced to take loans and those who didn't. If anything, the biggest mistake of the government was neglecting to put tough and strict new regulations on colleges for jacking up prices to take advantage of cheap loans offered to students that were intended to ease the burden on students, not allow colleges to get away with charging more. I'm all for reducing government intervention and I am by no means an ardent supporter of more government bureaucracy messing things up, but that was one thing they did right. Colleges are the ones that have created this crisis to pad their own pockets, not the government. Colleges are now finally facing the backlash of the student loan crisis and they rightly deserve to.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:04 am

My suggestions are a bit complex but worth considering in how to deal with this growing problem of student loans without being unfair to the overwhelming majority who do pay them back. We shouldn't remove all risk of borrowers from taking one or of lenders taken advantage of.

Limit loans to only tuition, fees and books, not for housing. Some in the Trump Administration have suggested a cap on annual and total borrowings.

Encourage loan takers to go to local community and state run college they can commute to.

Limit or ban use of loans for private, for profit schools but for certain trades like auto repair technicians and only the best run schools.

I would want a limited expansion of being able to use bankruptcy law for those that got taken by for-profit colleges, especially if shut down, have serious mental or physical health problems that limit their ability to be employed.

Loan monies would go directly to the school and a credit with approved sources for books and related materials.

Some of the hard cases are where a woman became pregnant so had to drop out mid-term or out of school totally due to need or due to sexual or other violence. Some allowance should be made with the loan issuer, the student, their family and the schools do limit the damage.

Ban 'athletic' scholarships by all colleges. Make it so scholarships go to scholars, especially with need than for dummies that can play a game.

Have programs and administration at schools to discourage alcohol and drug use that cause too many dropouts.

As others have suggested, limit loans to majors where need and chances of getting a job that can pay the loan back, and educate students as to the real cost of those loans and the reality of the kind of job one can get.

Get the States and Federal government to better fund state schools. Many have reduced state funding to a tiny fraction of need and is offset by higher tuition and fees needing larger loans.

Make the schools a partner in the loans so have to take part of the hit if they are not paid. They could cause them to limit tuition increases and their risk of loss.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:33 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Brick wrote:
The reason why college costs in the United States are so out of control is because the government got involved. By dishing out cheap loans, schools raised their tuition and fees knowing students could easily get loans to handle the increase costs. This created a vicious cycle....higher costs led to students needing more loans, which led to higher costs, then more loans, and etc.


No, this is incorrect. Cheap loans were not originally forecast against the outlook of predatory pricing that colleges have now decided to pursue. Don't try to spin this as the fault of the government, the fault lies with colleges, full stop. There was no justifiable reason for colleges to artificially jack up their prices other than because they could. Higher costs did not lead to students needing more loans, it's the other way around. The government made loans more accessible for those who needed it, and colleges essentially negated the effect of that as moot when they decided to charge more, aggravating the crisis for both those who were forced to take loans and those who didn't. If anything, the biggest mistake of the government was neglecting to put tough and strict new regulations on colleges for jacking up prices to take advantage of cheap loans offered to students that were intended to ease the burden on students, not allow colleges to get away with charging more. I'm all for reducing government intervention and I am by no means an ardent supporter of more government bureaucracy messing things up, but that was one thing they did right. Colleges are the ones that have created this crisis to pad their own pockets, not the government. Colleges are now finally facing the backlash of the student loan crisis and they rightly deserve to.


I’d suggest studying the basic economics of subsidies and who benefits from them. Hint: Colleges and Tesla are both priced to take the lion’s share of the subsidies implicit in student loans and electric cars.

GF
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’d suggest studying the basic economics of subsidies and who benefits from them. Hint: Colleges and Tesla are both priced to take the lion’s share of the subsidies implicit in student loans and electric cars.

GF


Tesla is subsidized for the buyer. College is not subsidized for the student.
 
seb146
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:52 am

NIKV69 wrote:
910A wrote:
I don't have a issue with a difference in policy, but to name call, personally calling someone mentally challenged when you have zero skills in the mental health field is just nonsense.


Yet everyone opposed to the current president calls everyone who supports him racist, xenophobes and misogynists.

Give me a break. :sarcastic:


MAGA hat wearers and MAGA supporters go around threatening and beating and sending death threats non-White, non-Christian, so there is that....
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seahawk
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:01 am

The government should not pay for private education. Anything but basic level schools should be paid for privately.

The contract between student, college and bank is a private business and should be regulated by the market only.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:05 am

To be honest - first I thought this “brilliant” idea belongs to our AOC. How come she wasn’t the first to offer. And they don’t even propose to tax the rich, as usual.
 
bennett123
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:11 am

What do you mean by ‘Basic Level Schooling’.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:42 am

I disagree, but I like her ideas with regards to addressing the cost of education.

IMO part of being an accredited university/college/training institution should be a legal obligation to reduced the real tuition costs by 3% PA. If accreditation is on the line, they will find a way. Then you make it illegal to issue student loans to non accredited institutions and sit back and let the free market do it's thing.

Obviously you'd have to have some exceptions, like aviation degrees, which are always going to be expensive.

People going to Harvard, Stamford, Yale and MIT can afford to fund their own education (or more likely have their families fund it).
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slider
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:29 pm

The best Tweet I read on this, to paraphrase, is that Sanders and Warren are like a divorced couple trying to buy the love of their children with two lavish Christmases.

The absolute lack of integrity in proposing to wave a magic wand to absolve debt is just morally reprehensible, economically irresponsible and ruinous. Fuck these people. Moreover, people who DON'T have degrees would then be subsidize those who do (and then calculate average earnings into that mix). It's insane, abominable and cannot be entertained for a nanosecond.

Hell, Fauxcahontas, don't stop there, girl! Spread your pixie dust around some more and wipe away everyone's mortgage debt!! And car loan debt!! Ride your magic unicorn around and eliminate all personal credit card debt!!

See how easy this socialism thing is?? Glorious!!!

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should just be launched into the sun, along with these moronic dopey schemes.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:35 pm

Brick wrote:

The best thing we can do for higher education in the United States is to eliminate the involvement of government.


I'd suggest the best thing you could do was follow the example of Scandinavia, and make all education - up to and including university - free of charge for native students. The only barrier to entry should be your ability to learn, not your ability to have rich parents and/or obtain financing.

My daughter is in her 2nd year of biology studies at a university, of what will probably be a 5-year education. She will only be paying for books and a computer, the rest is paid for by the state. Heck, she even gets a monthly grant of around 1K USD to live off, allowing her to share an apartment with a friend, and have money left over for the other important part of higher education: The social life. She also works part time in the local Zoo, making a little extra on the side for the fabled avocado on toast snacks so beloved by todays youth. Allegedly.
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zkojq
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:50 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Brick wrote:

The best thing we can do for higher education in the United States is to eliminate the involvement of government.


I'd suggest the best thing you could do was follow the example of Scandinavia, and make all education - up to and including university - free of charge for native students. The only barrier to entry should be your ability to learn, not your ability to have rich parents and/or obtain financing.

My daughter is in her 2nd year of biology studies at a university, of what will probably be a 5-year education. She will only be paying for books and a computer, the rest is paid for by the state. Heck, she even gets a monthly grant of around 1K USD to live off, allowing her to share an apartment with a friend, and have money left over for the other important part of higher education: The social life. She also works part time in the local Zoo, making a little extra on the side for the fabled avocado on toast snacks so beloved by todays youth. Allegedly.


Sounds like the tyranny of communism to me. How are wealthy families supposed to show that they're better than the peasants if the peasants can have the same education and healthcare as them? ;)
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trpmb6
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:05 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Brick wrote:

The best thing we can do for higher education in the United States is to eliminate the involvement of government.


I'd suggest the best thing you could do was follow the example of Scandinavia, and make all education - up to and including university - free of charge for native students. The only barrier to entry should be your ability to learn, not your ability to have rich parents and/or obtain financing.

My daughter is in her 2nd year of biology studies at a university, of what will probably be a 5-year education. She will only be paying for books and a computer, the rest is paid for by the state. Heck, she even gets a monthly grant of around 1K USD to live off, allowing her to share an apartment with a friend, and have money left over for the other important part of higher education: The social life. She also works part time in the local Zoo, making a little extra on the side for the fabled avocado on toast snacks so beloved by todays youth. Allegedly.


Question, how free was your daughter to choose her path of study? If testing said she had an apathy for engineering, would she have instead been allowed to study Biology as it seems she is more excited about (given she is working at a zoo)? I've heard unsubstantiated claims that certain countries may offer "free" (I put free in quotes because in the end we as a society or paying for it in some form) higher education but that it is more guided - directed if you will - towards what your skills are actually grounded in. Think of the book The Giver for instance, although to the extreme.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:20 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’d suggest studying the basic economics of subsidies and who benefits from them. Hint: Colleges and Tesla are both priced to take the lion’s share of the subsidies implicit in student loans and electric cars.

GF


Tesla is subsidized for the buyer. College is not subsidized for the student.


So, Elon Musk isn’t pricing into his sales price the subsidy? How naive of you. The government loan guarantee is just a hidden subsidy to the colleges who with the guarantee have an assurance of being paid. Who receives the subsidy isn’t necessarily who gets the check.


Gf
 
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DL717
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:28 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I can’t for the life of me understand why the government would want to make it easy for a 17 or 18 year old to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans with zero collateral when the private sector would laugh them out of the room. Work full time and pay as you go; studies have shown this method not only results in little to no debt burden upon graduation, but students self-funding while working full time tend to have higher GPAs.


It's called entitlement. The MSM and current far left lawmakers have indoctrinated the current generation into thinking they are owed it and anyone who has done what you said by working hard didn't earn it and got it because they are "privileged"


It’s my generation so I can lay down the bitch slap on this. This is the same generation where half of them raised their kids by giving them trophies for losing, while the rest of us said WTF. This is just the pinnacle of that activity. Bravo!

BTW. Student loans, that is government backed loans, have ridiculously low interest rates. A larger issue is profs making $250k a year.

Not everyone can go to a top college. The other issue is everyone thinks they have to go to college, but don’t know what they want before they get there so they go play for a couple fo years. If this is you, then you should be at a JC, not a top ranked college. They should expand JC systems, they cost less and most of the kids in them are at home so there is no room and board costs, generally. Have programs where they get an automatic transfer to a State College, or if a kid has their eyes another college, have counselors that teach them how to better plan for a transfer. If your the mad genius mathematician, good for you! Have fun at MIT for four years making cool shit, but half these kids have no business at a four year college, yet there they sit for $40-50k a year.
Last edited by DL717 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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B777LRF
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Re: Sen. Warren proposes eliminating student loan debt

Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:41 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Question, how free was your daughter to choose her path of study? If testing said she had an apathy for engineering, would she have instead been allowed to study Biology as it seems she is more excited about (given she is working at a zoo)? I've heard unsubstantiated claims that certain countries may offer "free" (I put free in quotes because in the end we as a society or paying for it in some form) higher education but that it is more guided - directed if you will - towards what your skills are actually grounded in. Think of the book The Giver for instance, although to the extreme.


The only thing that dictate what you can study, is your grades. Thus studying to become a doctor will require a higher average than studying law, which again has a higher average than engineering. And so far and so forth. The subject requiring the highest grade average is presently international business at Copenhagen Business School.

And we're all well aware that nothing is free, and that education is paid for via our taxes. Just like universal health care.
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