MaverickM11
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Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:14 pm

"Saudi Arabia on Tuesday beheaded 37 Saudi citizens, most of them minority Shiites, in a mass execution across the country for alleged terrorism-related crimes.
It also publicly pinned the executed body and severed head of a convicted Sunni extremist to a pole as a warning to others".

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/24/saudi-a ... iites.html
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:08 am

This is the problem with Muslims (note I say Muslims, not Islam). Too many sectarian violence, when we all worship the same God.

While the Sauds aren't the exemplars of true Islam, cutting the Sauds off would bring extremists to the fore, the way ISIS grew from the ashes of Iraq. And that would be worse for all.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:32 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
This is the problem with Muslims (note I say Muslims, not Islam). Too many sectarian violence, when we all worship the same God.

While the Sauds aren't the exemplars of true Islam, cutting the Sauds off would bring extremists to the fore, the way ISIS grew from the ashes of Iraq. And that would be worse for all.


It's the problem with organized Religion - period.

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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:48 am

pour encourager les autres!

GF
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:10 am

BN747 wrote:
It's the problem with organized Religion - period.

BN747


Plenty of religious people who are good. And plenty of atheist who are evil. So what does that say about religion (or lack thereof)?

No, humans are problematic.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:16 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
BN747 wrote:
It's the problem with organized Religion - period.

BN747


Plenty of religious people who are good. And plenty of atheist who are evil. So what does that say about religion (or lack thereof)?

No, humans are problematic.


No question.

We Humans are creatures and critters...and with or without religion, we are wired to do stupid shit, and be suckers for anything.
Even if we were ALL super intellectuals (impossible, I know), you can bet your bottom dollar that a few will 'take it too far' and harm, hurt or kill others.

You are correct Religion/No religion..isn't necessarily the promblem. But nonetheless it is a problem, I mean just look at what the Saudis just did here...they behead all the time on 'religious grounds.

BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:56 am

So this must be the reason why they need a "balanced" oil market :banghead:
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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:55 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
BN747 wrote:
It's the problem with organized Religion - period.

BN747


Plenty of religious people who are good. And plenty of atheist who are evil. So what does that say about religion (or lack thereof)?

No, humans are problematic.

There are both good and bad religious and atheistic people but only religion can make the good people do bad things.

The problem with moderate religious people is they promote and make normal that it is ok to act on faith and that “faith is a virtue” when quite frankly these are stupid positions and open the door to religious fundamentalism in normal society.

When societal norms say you can’t laugh at someone for believing Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse then why should someone not believe other things written in their scriptures.

Yes, religion is a problem.

Fred


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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:32 am

flipdewaf wrote:
There are both good and bad religious and atheistic people but only religion can make the good people do bad things.

The problem with moderate religious people is they promote and make normal that it is ok to act on faith and that “faith is a virtue” when quite frankly these are stupid positions and open the door to religious fundamentalism in normal society.

When societal norms say you can’t laugh at someone for believing Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse then why should someone not believe other things written in their scriptures.

Yes, religion is a problem.

Fred


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Therein lies the problem, and ironically the proof that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the human.

Live and let live.
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flipdewaf
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Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:40 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
There are both good and bad religious and atheistic people but only religion can make the good people do bad things.

The problem with moderate religious people is they promote and make normal that it is ok to act on faith and that “faith is a virtue” when quite frankly these are stupid positions and open the door to religious fundamentalism in normal society.

When societal norms say you can’t laugh at someone for believing Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse then why should someone not believe other things written in their scriptures.

Yes, religion is a problem.

Fred


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Therein lies the problem, and ironically the proof that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the human.

Live and let live.

Yes, the religious humans.


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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:43 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Therein lies the problem, and ironically the proof that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the human.

Live and let live.

Yes, the religious human.


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Unfortunately you're not demonstrating your assertion, but instead are demonstrating mine. You can try & drag this all you like, but in the end, all you're doing is reaffirming what I've said.

Repeatedly.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:49 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Therein lies the problem, and ironically the proof that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the human.

Live and let live.

Yes, the religious human.


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Unfortunately you're not demonstrating your assertion, but instead are demonstrating mine. You can try & drag this all you like, but in the end, all you're doing is reaffirming what I've said.

Repeatedly.

I’m not really sure what your assertion is? That some people are bad? I wouldn’t disagree there, I am asserting that religion can make otherwise good people do bad things.

The amount of bad in the world would be reduced if we removed religion or removed humans from the equation.

Fred


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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:12 am

flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
There are both good and bad religious and atheistic people but only religion can make the good people do bad things.

The problem with moderate religious people is they promote and make normal that it is ok to act on faith and that “faith is a virtue” when quite frankly these are stupid positions and open the door to religious fundamentalism in normal society.

When societal norms say you can’t laugh at someone for believing Mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse then why should someone not believe other things written in their scriptures.

Yes, religion is a problem.

Fred


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Therein lies the problem, and ironically the proof that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the human.

Live and let live.

Yes, the religious humans.


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Yes, the religious humans. Yep, but there was Humans before Religion arrived on the scene ...says Evolution.

But the Pope and every Imam will tell you otherwise.
Either the Rapture will occur before our Sun goes SuperNova, which it'd better or if the Sun goes Supernova, it'll swallow the Earth and the Rapture will miss it's chance.
And there;s always a chance with a rogue asteroid.


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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:13 am

flipdewaf wrote:
I’m not really sure what your assertion is? That some people are bad? I wouldn’t disagree there, I am asserting that religion can make otherwise good people do bad things.

The amount of bad in the world would be reduced if we removed religion or removed humans from the equation.


See, you don't get it. You admit that humans are a problem, but are still insistent that it's religion that make people do bad things. If you still can't see the problem here, I can't help you.

Remove religion, and the amount of bad in the world wouldn't be reduced. Example: what's happening in China & what had happened in the old Soviet Union.
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:32 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
"Saudi Arabia on Tuesday beheaded 37 Saudi citizens,




Yet Cuba is the bad guy.....
 
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:34 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!

The good people in every religion is a stupid excuse. Even the Nazi's had good people in there I'm sure. Doesn't excuse the whole organization from being rotten.
 
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:57 am

Redd wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!

The good people in every religion is a stupid excuse. Even the Nazi's had good people in there I'm sure. Doesn't excuse the whole organization from being rotten.


A fallacy. What about the crimes of Joseph Stalin, or Mao Zedong?
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:15 am

They are utter barbarians, and if it wasn't for the sodding oil, they'd been labelled a piranha state and subjected to sanctions.

The move towards renewables cannot come soon enough. Then they can descend further into their medieval fantasy world, and nobody will give a damn.
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flipdewaf
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Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:29 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Redd wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!

The good people in every religion is a stupid excuse. Even the Nazi's had good people in there I'm sure. Doesn't excuse the whole organization from being rotten.


A fallacy. What about the crimes of Joseph Stalin, or Mao Zedong?


Well other than Stalin presiding over a Soviet Union built using the founding and continued use of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Even if it wasn’t you appear not to be able to read, no one (particularly me) has said that there are not bad people who aren’t religious, that is not actually in question. You just appear to be taking butt hurt at the fact that religion is a force for evil in the world, whether there is bad present without or not.

Bad people exist with or without religion. There, I have said it. Please remember that for the rest of this thread!

Religion makes good people do bad things.

Fly planes into building.
Blow them selves up in a crowd.
Scare and psychologically damage children in to believing the same as them through fear of eternal pain.
Cutting out the clitoris of young girls to prevent them enjoying intercourse

No one has ever done these things because they don’t believe a higher power exists and judges them but all of them have been done because they believe a higher power is judging them on it and that is why religion is bad. You seem to think religion is good.

You tell me why those acts should be morally justified and tell me that religion is not a force for bad int eh world.

Fred



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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:04 am

flipdewaf wrote:
Religion makes good people do bad things.

Fly planes into building.
Blow them selves up in a crowd.
Scare and psychologically damage children in to believing the same as them through fear of eternal pain.
Cutting out the clitoris of young girls to prevent them enjoying intercourse


None of that are due to religion. All of those are due to people misusing religion. There's no doubt that these things won't go away even if there's no religion.

It doesn't prove your hypothesis at all.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:26 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Religion makes good people do bad things.

Fly planes into building.
Blow them selves up in a crowd.
Scare and psychologically damage children in to believing the same as them through fear of eternal pain.
Cutting out the clitoris of young girls to prevent them enjoying intercourse


None of that are due to religion. All of those are due to people misusing religion. There's no doubt that these things won't go away even if there's no religion.

It doesn't prove your hypothesis at all.


All of that is due to religion, they believe with all there being that the magical sky fairy will reward them for those acts, they aren't misusing religion, they are USING religion and there acts are justified by religion.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:35 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
This is the problem with Muslims (note I say Muslims, not Islam). Too many sectarian violence, when we all worship the same God.

While the Sauds aren't the exemplars of true Islam, cutting the Sauds off would bring extremists to the fore, the way ISIS grew from the ashes of Iraq. And that would be worse for all.


The Saudis have definitely funded and pushed the strains of extreme Sunni Islam across the world that extremists have been using as a stepping stone into their super warped ideology.

The remnants of the bloodthirsty Iraqi Baathist party leadership became the leadership of ISIS. They know how to warp minds and incite fear in the hearts of those who stand in their way. Those people should have been executed in the first place, they already had been involved in a genocide.

That's not to say we should knock out the Saudi Royal family like Saddam though. But maybe we (the US) should stop being buddies with them?

Also haven't Sunnis and Shiites been killing and persecuting each other for a looooong time?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:45 am

Kiwirob wrote:
All of that is due to religion, they believe with all there being that the magical sky fairy will reward them for those acts, they aren't misusing religion, they are USING religion and there acts are justified by religion.


They're MISUSING religion. Religion never said go and hurt others or kill yourself. So how is it using religion when they have a warped interpretation of religion, which makes it a human problem?



Jouhou wrote:
That's not to say we should knock out the Saudi Royal family like Saddam though. But maybe we (the US) should stop being buddies with them?


To be honest, the US should stop being buddies with Middle East countries including Israel. There needs to be even handed treatment of all Middle East countries.

Jouhou wrote:
Also haven't Sunnis and Shiites been killing and persecuting each other for a looooong time?


True, but in this case it's an issue of trying to establish a Middle East hegemony.
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:26 pm

BN747 wrote:
But the Pope and every Imam will tell you otherwise.
Either the Rapture will occur before our Sun goes SuperNova, which it'd better or if the Sun goes Supernova, it'll swallow the Earth and the Rapture will miss it's chance.
And there;s always a chance with a rogue asteroid.


BN747


Not to be pedantic but the sun does not have enough mass to go supernova. Instead, it is nearly assured that the Earth will be consumed when the sun reaches a point where it runs out of hydrogen fuel and begins burning the helium that was formed from the burning of hydrogen and becomes what is more commonly known as a red giant.

Far more likely that we'll all be gone before then anyways due to an asteroid impact or some super virus.
 
Redd
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:49 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Redd wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!

The good people in every religion is a stupid excuse. Even the Nazi's had good people in there I'm sure. Doesn't excuse the whole organization from being rotten.


A fallacy. What about the crimes of Joseph Stalin, or Mao Zedong?


WHat about them? DId they commit crimes in the name of Atheism? No, no they did not.
 
Redd
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:55 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Religion makes good people do bad things.

Fly planes into building.
Blow them selves up in a crowd.
Scare and psychologically damage children in to believing the same as them through fear of eternal pain.
Cutting out the clitoris of young girls to prevent them enjoying intercourse


All of those are due to people misusing religion. T.



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Just like shootings are not the fault of guns, it's people misusing guns...... :rotfl:
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:49 pm

Oh look. Our tremendous allies carrying out executions of its people. But god forbid we attempt to engage with a country that doesn't respect human rights...like Cuba or Iran.

THIS is why we need to wean ourselves from oil as much as possible. It's not that we import Saudi oil, but any disruption to their supply line reverberates in the form of higher oil prices. We need to wean ourselves from oil to reduce our presence in the kingdom and condemn it just like we do North Korea, Iran, and Cuba.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Plenty of religious people who are good. And plenty of atheist who are evil. So what does that say about religion (or lack thereof)?

No, humans are problematic.

Would there be a Middle East problem without religion? Almost certain there wouldn't be since that little spot would be just another regular area.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:02 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
All of that is due to religion, they believe with all there being that the magical sky fairy will reward them for those acts, they aren't misusing religion, they are USING religion and there acts are justified by religion.


They're MISUSING religion. Religion never said go and hurt others or kill yourself. So how is it using religion when they have a warped interpretation of religion, which makes it a human problem?
And who gave you the authority to determine how religion should be used? Do you even realise how much of a stereotypical ‘holier the thou’ figure you look telling other people how their version of religion isn’t as good as yours, pathetic!

If you were to read the holy books which a lot of the religions use to dive their dogmas then you would see that they are not misused in the slightest and do exactly their books tell them. At least fundamentalists are intellectually consistent. You appear to want to twist your religion to fit modern morals rather then realise that moral systems have outgrown the fairies.

Fred



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vikkyvik
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:43 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Religion makes good people do bad things.


So does:
Money
Power
Sex
Job
Family
Friends
Drugs/Alcohol
etc.

Religion just banks on money, power, and to an extent, sex, to get people to do things (good or bad).

Eliminate religion, and some other form of hierarchy will take its place.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:53 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
But the Pope and every Imam will tell you otherwise.
Either the Rapture will occur before our Sun goes SuperNova, which it'd better or if the Sun goes Supernova, it'll swallow the Earth and the Rapture will miss it's chance.
And there;s always a chance with a rogue asteroid.


BN747


Not to be pedantic but the sun does not have enough mass to go supernova. Instead, it is nearly assured that the Earth will be consumed when the sun reaches a point where it runs out of hydrogen fuel and begins burning the helium that was formed from the burning of hydrogen and becomes what is more commonly known as a red giant.

Far more likely that we'll all be gone before then anyways due to an asteroid impact or some super virus.


Sure you meant to be pedantic, your answer sounded like something I’d heard from a familiar source, the quoting of your post is from space.com’s website, your copy and paste job is incomplete as in had you read further into the article it’s states that mass is only apart of the process in going supernova. But know from previous research that the sun burns 700 million tons of hydrogen (producing 590 million tons helium per second - eating away at its mass. There are other pending factors that govern what will happen. But true it is currently on the trajectory of becoming a red giant which basically is what I mean by consuming the Earth (along with Mercury, Venus and perhaps Mars in the process of its death throes.

But your conclusion on end of the world events rather comical, human stupidity has a far greater chance of being the cause of our demise over a rogue asteroid or a (man-made’ super virus-qualifies as human stupidity, if you meant that).

BN747
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flipdewaf
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Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:26 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Religion makes good people do bad things.


So does:
Money
Power
Sex
Job
Family
Friends
Drugs/Alcohol
etc.

Religion just banks on money, power, and to an extent, sex, to get people to do things (good or bad).

Eliminate religion, and some other form of hierarchy will take its place.

I agree that those things you mention can make people do bad things, but they are only a problem when you have too much or too little of any of them

What religion does is use fear and psychological conditioning to control the influences of these which you mention and tries to con the ‘believer’ out of understanding their own influence on their own life as well as others.

Religions want:
Money
Power
Sex
Job
Family
Friends
Drugs/Alcohol
etc.
So they brainwash people and societies to be able to control it.

If they control the corrupting features of society and the education of such features then they control corruption.

Fred

PS, you should add food to your list, it’s probably one of the most dangerous substances to abuse.


PPS.
Money
Power
Sex
Job
Family
Friends
Drugs/Alcohol
etc.
All exist,

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trpmb6
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:24 pm

BN747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
But the Pope and every Imam will tell you otherwise.
Either the Rapture will occur before our Sun goes SuperNova, which it'd better or if the Sun goes Supernova, it'll swallow the Earth and the Rapture will miss it's chance.
And there;s always a chance with a rogue asteroid.


BN747


Not to be pedantic but the sun does not have enough mass to go supernova. Instead, it is nearly assured that the Earth will be consumed when the sun reaches a point where it runs out of hydrogen fuel and begins burning the helium that was formed from the burning of hydrogen and becomes what is more commonly known as a red giant.

Far more likely that we'll all be gone before then anyways due to an asteroid impact or some super virus.


Sure you meant to be pedantic, your answer sounded like something I’d heard from a familiar source, the quoting of your post is from space.com’s website, your copy and paste job is incomplete as in had you read further into the article it’s states that mass is only apart of the process in going supernova. But know from previous research that the sun burns 700 million tons of hydrogen (producing 590 million tons helium per second - eating away at its mass. There are other pending factors that govern what will happen. But true it is currently on the trajectory of becoming a red giant which basically is what I mean by consuming the Earth (along with Mercury, Venus and perhaps Mars in the process of its death throes.

But your conclusion on end of the world events rather comical, human stupidity has a far greater chance of being the cause of our demise over a rogue asteroid or a (man-made’ super virus-qualifies as human stupidity, if you meant that).

BN747


Not to derail further but it's not from space.com or otherwise. Just (largely) useless knowledge in my brain from college.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:50 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Would there be a Middle East problem without religion? Almost certain there wouldn't be since that little spot would be just another regular area.


Honestly, I’ve no doubt that there would be strife in the Middle East even without religion. They’ve been fighting even before the arrival of all the other Abrahamaic religions, let alone Islam.

flipdewaf wrote:
And who gave you the authority to determine how religion should be used? Do you even realise how much of a stereotypical ‘holier the thou’ figure you look telling other people how their version of religion isn’t as good as yours, pathetic!


Because I have the knowledge of religion I can say with any authority that they’re misusing religion. Sure there are some variations, but the brushstrokes are the same - killing other people is a sin, suicide is a sin, so if both transgressions are sins, how is it that terrorist attacks like 9/11 or the countless suicide bombings jives with religion?

In all honesty, those terrorists are doing the exact same thing you are doing - not having the knowledge to properly interpret what is in the holy book and cherry picking certain verses that suits your needs. How is that using religion? Sure seem like misuse to me.

Put it this way, there are billions of Muslims in the world today, but Muslim terrorists account for less than 1%, if not lower. If Islam truly preaches violence and death to infidels, wouldn’t we see far more terrorists than what we have today?

Redd wrote:
Just like shootings are not the fault of guns, it's people misusing guns...... :rotfl:


You dismiss the notion, but isn’t that fact? Give a gun to a hunter, he uses it to hunt, give a gun to an Olympic shooter, they will use it to win medals, you give a gun to a deranged git, he goes out on a shooting rampage.

And therein lies the problem with today’s world...
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Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:40 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Because I have the knowledge of religion I can say with any authority that they’re misusing religion. Sure there are some variations, but the brushstrokes are the same - killing other people is a sin, suicide is a sin, so if both transgressions are sins, how is it that terrorist attacks like 9/11 or the countless suicide bombings jives with religion?
in the bible god literally calls for the killing of millions, he floods the whole fucking world and kills everything! Then in the New Testament he sends his son who is actually him (WTF) and murders him for the sins of others which he had tempted them in to doing in the first place. If you want to see where murder is glorified in the bible you have to look no further than what god did to his own son. In the bible it tells people how to look after their slaves and even tells how badly they are allowed to to beat them and quite clearly ignoring the fact that IT IS WRONG TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. It also compares women to cattle as if they are on the same level.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:

In all honesty, those terrorists are doing the exact same thing you are doing - not having the knowledge to properly interpret what is in the holy book and cherry picking certain verses that suits your needs. How is that using religion?
well seeing as you don’t know what the holy books pronounce any way then you seem not to realise that you also don’t follow the teachings and as you mention it is all an ‘interpretation’ so the only way to be religious is to ‘misuse’ it to a certain degree meaning that if the only uses are misuses then they are also using. It as correctly as you.

If you are not cherry picking verses from your holy book (assuming you are religious of course) then you must see no moral issue in owning and beating a slave
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Put it this way, there are billions of Muslims in the world today, but Muslim terrorists account for less than 1%, if not lower. If Islam truly preaches violence and death to infidels, wouldn’t we see far more terrorists than what we have today?
No, not at all. Most are moderate and strangely understand that there are parts that they must ignore and allow to slip past in order to function in modern society.

500 years ago the earth was flat and you could be called a heretic for believing otherwise. 200 years ago we all knew that all life was created. 100 years ago it was immoral to be gay.

Just because something isn’t being preached doesn’t mean it isn’t part of their religion, it is written in the f*cling Quran! People aren’t commiting terrorist acts in spite of their religiosity not because of it. Because they know society is not accepting of that behaviour.

If Islam (or any religion for that matter l) was all peace loving and not promoting violence then why would we see a decrease in murder (and crime in general) in countries and areas that are more secular? Weird. Turns out religion makes people do more murdering!

People = bad
Religion = only an idea and can have no influence on its own
Religion*people =bad+

Are the words in your holy book true or not?

Fred






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Last edited by flipdewaf on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:50 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And therein lies the problem with today’s world...
no, the problem
with today’s world is that people now think that freedom of speech means someone’s opinion is worth as much as someone else’s facts.


You don't offer facts. You too offer opinions. And yet you arrogantly dismiss others' opinions while they have to entertain yours.

Honestly this thread has gone off the rails. Mods, just lock it up.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:59 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Because I have the knowledge of religion I can say with any authority that they’re misusing religion. Sure there are some variations, but the brushstrokes are the same - killing other people is a sin, suicide is a sin, so if both transgressions are sins, how is it that terrorist attacks like 9/11 or the countless suicide bombings jives with religion?
in the bible god literally calls for the killing of millions, he floods the whole fucking world and kills everything! Then in the New Testament he sends his son who is actually him (WTF) and murders him for the sins of others which he had tempted them in to doing in the first place. If you want to see where murder is glorified in the bible you have to look no further than what god did to his own son. In the bible it tells people how to look after their slaves and even tells how badly they are allowed to to beat them and quite clearly ignoring the fact that IT IS WRONG TO OWN A HUMAN BEING. It also compares women to cattle as if they are on the same level.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:

In all honesty, those terrorists are doing the exact same thing you are doing - not having the knowledge to properly interpret what is in the holy book and cherry picking certain verses that suits your needs. How is that using religion?
well seeing as you don’t know what the holy books pronounce any way then you seem not to realise that you also don’t follow the teachings and as you mention it is all an ‘interpretation’ so the only way to be religious is to ‘misuse’ it to a certain degree meaning that if the only uses are misuses then they are also using. It as correctly as you.

If you are not cherry picking verses from your holy book (assuming you are religious of course) then you must see no moral issue in owning and beating a slave
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Put it this way, there are billions of Muslims in the world today, but Muslim terrorists account for less than 1%, if not lower. If Islam truly preaches violence and death to infidels, wouldn’t we see far more terrorists than what we have today?
No, not at all. Most are moderate and strangely understand that there are parts that they must ignore and allow to slip past in order to function in modern society.

500 years ago the earth was flat and you could be called a heretic for believing otherwise. 200 years ago we all knew that all life was created. 100 years ago it was immoral to be gay.

Just because something isn’t being preached doesn’t mean it isn’t part of their religion, it is written in the f*cling Quran! People aren’t commiting terrorist acts in spite of their religiosity not because of it. Because they know society is not accepting of that behaviour.

If Islam (or any religion for that matter l) was all peace loving and not promoting violence then why would we see a decrease in murder (and crime in general) in countries and areas that are more secular? Weird. Turns out religion makes people do more murdering!

People = bad
Religion = only an idea and can have no influence on its own
Religion*people =bad+

Are the words in your holy book true or not?

Fred






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Great post and sums religion and it's effects nicely...now to go a little further if I may, Religious teachings love claim they know the origins of the Earth.

What will it take for people to recognize tiny, teeny of a spec Earth actually is on the galactic scale. It's like if the Milky Way lost Earth, it would be like you missing a tiny spec of dirt/dust from the underside of a ditch digger's worker boot or a beach sandal. Yep that is Earth, and yet it has 2000 goat herders convincing people they know how everything came to be.

THAT is merely an Earth vision. And only an Earth perspective. The Universe has no obligation to provide an explanation to teeny tiny Earth, or the other estimated septillion possible inhabited planets spread out across this universe. Earth's religious claims of 'knowing it all' is about as wise as a farmer seeing Pacific for the first time, scooping a glass of ocean water and claiming Whales do not exist, they are a myth (a Neil DeGrasse Tyson example), that's how non-Astronomy interested minds view the massive galaxies that populate this universe (not mention others). Simple minded amid all the available tools to learn more and think outside the confines we are taught. Sure, it still comes down to being an Earth perspective...but it's start on realizing we just aren't really all that special. As far as (beyond Earth) information goes we are like an infant who just realized he/she has fingers (still to learn how many and how to use them)...that's about far as we've come...much much more to come without question.

What we happens 'know' is just that an earth-based perspective that serves ONLY Earth, not Mars, Venus, the rest or any of the multitudes of planets - just Earth.

And as see Earth as photographed from a far by our many probes, it's just a tiny blue spec...and it is not the only blue spec out there.

And when the day comes and we are led thru a wormhole by a more advanced being...I hope the crew that goes has no idea what a Bible, Torah or Quran is. They will be useless for such exposure of what is to come. If the aliens don't wipe us out for being morons destroying our only home.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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stl07
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:15 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Oh look. Our tremendous allies carrying out executions of its people. But god forbid we attempt to engage with a country that doesn't respect human rights...like Cuba or Iran.

THIS is why we need to wean ourselves from oil as much as possible. It's not that we import Saudi oil, but any disruption to their supply line reverberates in the form of higher oil prices. We need to wean ourselves from oil to reduce our presence in the kingdom and condemn it just like we do North Korea, Iran, and Cuba.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Plenty of religious people who are good. And plenty of atheist who are evil. So what does that say about religion (or lack thereof)?

No, humans are problematic.

Would there be a Middle East problem without religion? Almost certain there wouldn't be since that little spot would be just another regular area.

Yes, most of the conflicts are actually ethnic. But from elsewhere, all you hear is that it is the big bad Muslims or Christians or Jews
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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:06 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And therein lies the problem with today’s world...
no, the problem
with today’s world is that people now think that freedom of speech means someone’s opinion is worth as much as someone else’s facts.


You don't offer facts. You too offer opinions. And yet you arrogantly dismiss others' opinions while they have to entertain yours.

Honestly this thread has gone off the rails. Mods, just lock it up.

Don’t like fighting ones own corner? Forum gods required to cope I see.

Fred


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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:33 am

BN747 wrote:
Great post and sums religion and it's effects nicely...now to go a little further if I may, Religious teachings love claim they know the origins of the Earth.

Thanks, it’s an important subject to me. I’ve always been an atheist even though I didn’t go to church and whilst I knew hat I didn’t believe there was an expectation for me to behave as if I was a Christian. I had refused to get my daughter christened and my mother in law thought we were going to be arrested because it was the law? Weird. It got me to think about the pervasiveness of religion and how it dominates and is dangerous not at a grand level but at a local level by getting people and society to subconsciously accept it without question. Not long before Christmas I found out my friend was suffering from severe depression, had left his job and withdrawn from his family etc and was close to losing his house. When I spoke to his mother she said “We’ve done everything, we prey every night and he still can’t get his job back”. Turns out they hadn’t even been to see him and he needed a shoulder and a friend as he was feeling lonely, his parents hadn’t even been to see him.
I then vowed that I would stop giving religion an easy ride like everyone else. It was my New Years resolution to “not give respect where it isn’t due anymore”. 90% of people have supported me, 10% have not and it seems that when I question them they run scared. It’s liberating and at times edgy and exciting, I don’t go out of my way to argue but if I’m incited by a ridiculous claim (johovas witness in the street) I will now confront instead of walking on by.

I think most people in the world are atheists, they are just too scared to speak up, but once they do they find only a wimpier of an excuse behind a facade brutal army really stand in their way.

Fred
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zkojq
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:41 am

B777LRF wrote:
They are utter barbarians, and if it wasn't for the sodding oil, they'd been labelled a piranha state and subjected to sanctions.

The move towards renewables cannot come soon enough. Then they can descend further into their medieval fantasy world, and nobody will give a damn.

Saudi Arabia is no better than Isis. They just have a big enough cheque book to make most of the criticism go away. Does any other country still do crucifixions?

The intransigents of western leaders/governments (with the noted exception of Canada) is sickening.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:54 am

flipdewaf wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Great post and sums religion and it's effects nicely...now to go a little further if I may, Religious teachings love claim they know the origins of the Earth.

Thanks, it’s an important subject to me. I’ve always been an atheist even though I didn’t go to church and whilst I knew hat I didn’t believe there was an expectation for me to behave as if I was a Christian. I had refused to get my daughter christened and my mother in law thought we were going to be arrested because it was the law? Weird. It got me to think about the pervasiveness of religion and how it dominates and is dangerous not at a grand level but at a local level by getting people and society to subconsciously accept it without question. Not long before Christmas I found out my friend was suffering from severe depression, had left his job and withdrawn from his family etc and was close to losing his house. When I spoke to his mother she said “We’ve done everything, we prey every night and he still can’t get his job back”. Turns out they hadn’t even been to see him and he needed a shoulder and a friend as he was feeling lonely, his parents hadn’t even been to see him.
I then vowed that I would stop giving religion an easy ride like everyone else. It was my New Years resolution to “not give respect where it isn’t due anymore”. 90% of people have supported me, 10% have not and it seems that when I question them they run scared. It’s liberating and at times edgy and exciting, I don’t go out of my way to argue but if I’m incited by a ridiculous claim (johovas witness in the street) I will now confront instead of walking on by.

I think most people in the world are atheists, they are just too scared to speak up, but once they do they find only a wimpier of an excuse behind a facade brutal army really stand in their way.

Fred


I agree, after all even the 'believers' are Atheist if you try to tell them Zeus & Co is real. And we see Jesus and Moses exactly how they see Zeus and the cast mythological characters.

Interesting, we all come to the smarter table of what life truly is a million different ways.

Most people are indoctrinated with religious BS because it's all their parents know and it's past from generation to generation...but as rapidly as accessible online info on facts and 101 Questions for Atheist to ask believers, young and young generations are no longer buying into the nonsense so easily and given the flood of bad priests stories (those stories were more likely worse the farther we look back and no internet to share/tell/reveal truth about widespread global abuse) being as antiquated as the churches are, just as most Americans are incapable of understanding the power cyber warfare, so is the church - they have no idea as to how they are losing 'the spreading the message' gig...I think they've already lost. The only way to save it...is to update and switch up the written text - which means a 'new age bible'. I'm sure theological wizards are crunching their brains trying figure out how to pull that off without be flagged as BS, so they are stuck prizing goat head sizes and glorifying heaven chariots. Science on the other hand comes with an eraser, tons of them - a theory is tossed when a more sensible one comes along, I bet the pious wish the Bible came with erasers.

I was personally taken as a kid (mostly went to church for the cookies & juice for kids) but as I grew older, they told me I could speak the language of angels (speaking in tongues) I was rattling off nonsense to tell you the truth. Then in a college group a kid stood and said" ...you guys are f*n idiots! There is no god, wtf is wrong with you people!?" Of course I was offended and argued from pure stupidity and ignorance,..but the damage was done, it set me on a path of digging and digging and digging deep. I started off with comparing bibles written years apart back into the 19th Century or so and I found the Bible did come with an eraser...they all read slightly different from one another. Then I learned to 'factor in' the human element - the error element (lies and deception) Within 10 or so, I had abandoned ship, I got a telescope and pursued my interest in astronomy/cosmology and quantum physics, that sealed the deal. They provided a more logical, reasonable explanation of how some things work (more than any religious text).

I view the Earth just as the Universe does...it's a VERY VERY insignificant background character...if the Universe is the biggest Football Stadium (one the size of our Galaxy), Earth is a spec of mist on a bland of grass, (and that's being generous) because it's much much smaller in it's role of the Universal map, virtually invisible to be more accurate. Therefore, we are the least candidate to have any kind of understanding of how it all works. But we are trying...and that's far more settling than listening to words of people who were spooked by a loud thunder clap and sold tales of talking snakes.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
seb146
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:38 am

So, to be clear, 37 Muslims were murdered by a Muslim government because they were not Muslim enough. Like Mormons are not Christian enough or Christian Scientists are not Christian enough or Jehovah's Witness are not Christian enough so they have to be shamed and not engaged with and not talked about.

I get that Christians are not murdering Christians because they are not Christian enough (yet) but there is still a parallel.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:28 am

seb146 wrote:
I get that Christians are not murdering Christians because they are not Christian enough (yet) but there is still a parallel.
Say what now?!?!?!
Just last week a journalist was shot because of christian on christian violence gone wrong. Google "Old firm violence" to see it. Granted there are no public beheadings but that Christians are not murdering Christians because their version of Christianity is wrong.

Fred
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:15 pm

Looks like new reports are coming out that some of these men's confessions may have been coerced.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/middleea ... index.html

Many said they were totally innocent, that their confessions had been written by the same people who had tortured them. Some claimed to have evidence of their abuse at the hands of their interrogators. And one reaffirmed loyalty to King Salman and his son, Mohammed bin Salman, in hopes of getting leniency from the court, trial documents show.


Looks like more MBS versions of "justice"
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Pyrex
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:29 pm

Redd wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!



Monsieur Guillotine would like to have a word with you.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:42 pm

seb146 wrote:
So, to be clear, 37 Muslims were murdered by a Muslim government because they were not Muslim enough. Like Mormons are not Christian enough or Christian Scientists are not Christian enough or Jehovah's Witness are not Christian enough so they have to be shamed and not engaged with and not talked about.

I get that Christians are not murdering Christians because they are not Christian enough (yet) but there is still a parallel.


haven't you got that the wrong way round, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses are a lot more christian than the average Anglican or Catholic.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:44 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Redd wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
And plenty of atheist who are evil. .


I don't remember hearing about Athiests beheading 37 people in the name of..... well, in the name of nothing!



Monsieur Guillotine would like to have a word with you.
Nope, incorrect. There may have been beheadings by athiests but they were not done in the name of athiesm. We could equally well attribute the french revolutionary beheadings to a lack of collection of baseball cards (which I will hereby call neclectism such that we can have a more or less direct comparison to atheism to describe a group of people who are not something).

Fred
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readytotaxi
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:58 pm

Thank goodness intelligent life from another planet is staying away from us, we would be the death of them.
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BN747
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:04 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Thank goodness intelligent life from another planet is staying away from us, we would be the death of them.


YES, yes we would.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Maloak33
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Re: Saudi Arabia beheads 37

Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:24 pm

I personally think that religion was created by man, to tell others what to do, to keep them from thinking for them self.
And yes, I am an atheist. " Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities"

Mal
Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.

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