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What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:26 pm
by MaverickM11
NRA exec Wayne LaPierre alleges Oliver North trying to force him out

"In a Thursday letter to NRA board members, LaPierre said North asked him to resign on Wednesday. North told LaPierre the NRA’s longtime advertising firm, Ackerman McQueen, planned to send a letter to the board through North that would be “bad for me” unless he resigned."

"A lawsuit filed by the NRA against Ackerman last month claims the company overbilled the group and that North had a conflict of interest because Ackerman paid him."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nra-ceo-wayn ... -to-resign

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:12 am
by BN747
It just proves the even when 'extreme minds' come together, you can count on one of their most compulsive flaws to end in a head on collision.

The gun mentality - the means to temporarily make an man/woman.child more powerful than they could ever naturally be. Physically that is (wealth power is a different animal).

But the gun thing reminds of seeing (often) a 85lb woman wheeling a 4000lb SUV like she's twirling a hula-hoop.
It's scary AF.

Just as many people make poor parents, we have too many people with poor judgement - ARMED.

But NRA, made it's own torture chamber they are stuck in now.

Pursuit of Money and Influence without discipline in any shape or form plus steamrolling over and dismissing mass shootings paints a brilliant picture of the naked animal in man.

Oliver North bolstered by his prominence for BS'ing America and almost getting away with it - from wiki "he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and ordering the destruction of documents through his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service. North performed some of his community service within Potomac Gardens, a public housing project in southeast Washington, DC. However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[30] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony."

He should have been locked up and still in jail (He certainly looks like he's been doing time).

Congressional defiance needs to be taken seriously after this and as we see now it's becoming a strategy to outwit Congress by criminals...mr prez.

But the NRA infighting is shitshow pf the messiest proportions, plenty flies on the wall watching that mess - A cat fight wanna see.

But Maria Butina of NRA Russia (a fake org/Russian spy co-op) did do America a favor for exposing how mentally weak many 'tough'(in mind only) guys (must have their guns) are and how vulnerable we are as a nation.

The NRA is a corrupt loose free radical and dangerous org that's imploding - as it should.

As long as misguided humans are running it, it will always be a grenade waiting to explode.
Once this implodes.
Another one will emerge...
...only to end the same way.

Because of the 'gun mentality' itself.

BN747

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:01 am
by seb146
I saw a comment somewhere on social media saying something like "thoughts and prayers have worked so well for the rest of us so it should work well for NRA!"

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:33 am
by dmg626
As a Life Member of the NRA I’m not surprised, LaPierre still runs the show, I’m sure Ollie had some different views of what the future direction should hold.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:46 am
by ltbewr
There have been several recent investigative news articles about what is apparently serious financial abuses at the NRA. This article explains it pretty well: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... at-the-nra
Here is another about the scandals and some of their ugly lobbying:
https://www.salon.com/2019/04/27/is-tru ... ay-around/

They have been spending something like $40 Million more than taking in,spent up to $30 million in supporting Trump and $10's of millions in lobbying. The NRA's NRA-TV, a cable/dish TV channel, doesn't make money and spends too much in overpaid sweetheart deals in its production as well as many areas of marketing. The IRS is looking at the 'not-for-profit' tax free status due to various possible violations as well as investigations by the NY State AG who has authority of the NRA's NFP status as the NRA is incorporated in NY State.

I suspect that Mr. North was going to out a lot more of this stuff unless paid off, but has been caught and now they fire him. I hope the NRA is forced to clean up and go back to being what it was 40 years ago not be the 2nd Amendment absolutists, insider scandal ridden and gun makers tool they have become.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:05 am
by DiamondFlyer
What it comes down to is, true 2A supporters gave up on the NRA years ago for organizations that actually do support it, not ones (like the NRA) that do everything they can to give away rights.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:14 am
by DIRECTFLT
Should be re-branded as the National Firearm Association, as they deal with handguns and rifles.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:13 am
by stratclub
I'll just be glad when they stop pushing the lie that the 2nd amendment gives you some sort of right to posses firearms by truncating what the 2nd amendment actually says. Never mind that the 2nd Amendment starts out with the words "A well regulated Militia" which for the most part does not apply today.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:31 pm
by af773atmsp
Maybe we’ll get lucky and the whole organization will implode on itself.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:18 am
by johns624
ltbewr wrote:
There have been several recent investigative news articles about what is apparently serious financial abuses at the NRA. This article explains it pretty well: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... at-the-nra
Here is another about the scandals and some of their ugly lobbying:
https://www.salon.com/2019/04/27/is-tru ... ay-around/

They have been spending something like $40 Million more than taking in,spent up to $30 million in supporting Trump and $10's of millions in lobbying. The NRA's NRA-TV, a cable/dish TV channel, doesn't make money and spends too much in overpaid sweetheart deals in its production as well as many areas of marketing. The IRS is looking at the 'not-for-profit' tax free status due to various possible violations as well as investigations by the NY State AG who has authority of the NRA's NFP status as the NRA is incorporated in NY State.

I suspect that Mr. North was going to out a lot more of this stuff unless paid off, but has been caught and now they fire him. I hope the NRA is forced to clean up and go back to being what it was 40 years ago not be the 2nd Amendment absolutists, insider scandal ridden and gun makers tool they have become.
+1--I'm a Life Member but wouldn't do it in today's world. Wayne needs to go, and quickly!

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:49 pm
by Magog
stratclub wrote:
I'll just be glad when they stop pushing the lie that the 2nd amendment gives you some sort of right to posses firearms by truncating what the 2nd amendment actually says. Never mind that the 2nd Amendment starts out with the words "A well regulated Militia" which for the most part does not apply today.

The judiciary doesn’t see it your way.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 pm
by einsteinboricua
Magog wrote:
The judiciary doesn’t see it your way.

Even Scalia agreed that the 2nd Amendment has its limits...unless you're suggesting that Scalia was an activist judge (you know, like all judges with whose opinions we disagree with).

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:43 pm
by apodino
Magog wrote:
stratclub wrote:
I'll just be glad when they stop pushing the lie that the 2nd amendment gives you some sort of right to posses firearms by truncating what the 2nd amendment actually says. Never mind that the 2nd Amendment starts out with the words "A well regulated Militia" which for the most part does not apply today.

The judiciary doesn’t see it your way.

Has the judiciary ever actually ruled definitively on this? One of the reasons we are divided on the Gun issue is because the supreme court tends to punt every time the issue reaches them. Thus there really is no clarity on what the second amendment does and doesn't allow on this issue, and we have different people reading the Second Amendment in different ways/

I am not an NRA member so I have no skin in the game as far as their internal politics go. As an outside observer, they seem to be behaving more and more like a labor union. Lots of corruption at the top with lavish benefits to the bosses, while the membership gets screwed. It is for this reason that I am a bit troubled by the NY AG getting involved with their investigation. By using the AG office to go after the NRA, what the Democrats may be doing is inadvertently opening pandoras box for GOP AGs to go after labor unions in the same way. This worries me to death as a card carrying union member.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:14 pm
by Magog
einsteinboricua wrote:
Magog wrote:
The judiciary doesn’t see it your way.

Even Scalia agreed that the 2nd Amendment has its limits...unless you're suggesting that Scalia was an activist judge (you know, like all judges with whose opinions we disagree with).

Don’t read too much into what I say. My comment was that the judiciary has not ruled that the right to guns is only for direct militia purposes.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:13 am
by stl07
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:42 am
by WarRI1
stl07 wrote:
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists


Exactly, I have been to the fund raisers, they would sell a gun to a blind person to raise a buck. I have never belonged and I have had weapons all my life, or most of it.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:35 pm
by DiamondFlyer
stl07 wrote:
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists


See, you're part of the problem too. By definition, any regulation is not sensible, in terms of the 2A. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:00 pm
by PIMountaineer
I'm a gun owner as well, possessing both handguns and rifles as well as a shotgun. I am not at all surprised to see other gun owners share the same opinion of the NRA as myself. Never been a member and never will.

I see a firearm as a necessary instrument of operating a farm. I prefer never to use one, but have had to in the past and will more than likely have to in the future.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:08 pm
by Agrajag
As a humble Brit, i have never understood the massive influence that the NRA has over US politics. They only have 5 million members dont they? Out of a country of, what, 300 million? What am i missing?

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:19 pm
by frmrCapCadet
I had guns when I lived in the country, and did plink the occasional varmint. Kid was on the high school shooting team, they had him store the ammo in his school locker (imagine the outrage that would incur today!). NRA was just ending its non-political days. Then it was a little conservative but mostly about gun training and safety. I favor the sort of gun control that Dodge City enforced around the turn of the century, that is about 120 years ago.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:35 pm
by alfa164
DiamondFlyer wrote:
See, you're part of the problem too. By definition, any regulation is not sensible, in terms of the 2A. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile.


Actually, you are a huge part of the problem. Saying "any regulation is not sensible" ignores that fact that there are already laws barring machine guns, gatling guns, howizers... and other larger weapons. Reasonable regulations can be effective, and even the regulation of assault-type weapons was accompanied by a diminished number of gun-related deaths when it was in effect.

The knee jerk response of "no regulation" is a trope from commentators who get their political philosophy from the chyrons at Faux News...

:roll:

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:06 pm
by einsteinboricua
stl07 wrote:
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists

It's probably because the NRA has strayed from its original mission. It might have been founded to protect gunowners' rights and foster a healthy environment with training and sensible measures. Instead, it has become a lobby for gun manufacturers. It doesn't make sense that when even NRA members support items like universal background checks, the NRA itself moves to block it. Why? Because it means less gun sales which means less revenue for them (a portion of sales from some models gets sent to the NRA).

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:35 pm
by casinterest
So how is the National Russian Auxiliary doing? Have they bribed enough politicians with their Not for Profit funds? Have they funneled money into executives pockets? How often do you see any NRA programs of worth in your local area other than when they are funding a big gun show to sell quicker and deadlier weapons into the hands of those desperate to pay for it ?

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:44 pm
by LittleFokker
Agrajag wrote:
As a humble Brit, i have never understood the massive influence that the NRA has over US politics. They only have 5 million members dont they? Out of a country of, what, 300 million? What am i missing?


Easy, when you become a laundromat for Russian money and we have a shitty election system that limits individual donations to politicians but politicians are allowed to (and expected to if you read about their weekly habits) accept unlimited bribes from any organization. That's why I have no hesitation in calling the NRA a terrorist organization, literally no better than ISIS. In fact, they're probably responsible for more murders than ISIS.

I would love to see Ollie North and Wayne LaSmalldick settle their disputes by walking 10 paces, turn and firing. Hopefully they both lose and America wins.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 12:43 am
by johns624
DiamondFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists


See, you're part of the problem too. By definition, any regulation is not sensible, in terms of the 2A. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
That sounds all noble in an ideal world, but that's not how it works in reality. The problem is that the NRA had two years with a GOP president and Congress and pushed for nothing. They don't want any pro-gun legislation to be passed. Scared people contribute more to them. What they should have done is say this "we won't say anything about you banning bumpfire stocks if you give us reciprocity". That's how compromise works. We would have given up nothing useful and gained something that benefits millions.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:40 am
by bennett123
Magog

So what does a ‘well regulated Militia’ mean?.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:50 am
by Max Q
BN747 wrote:
It just proves the even when 'extreme minds' come together, you can count on one of their most compulsive flaws to end in a head on collision.

The gun mentality - the means to temporarily make an man/woman.child more powerful than they could ever naturally be. Physically that is (wealth power is a different animal).

But the gun thing reminds of seeing (often) a 85lb woman wheeling a 4000lb SUV like she's twirling a hula-hoop.
It's scary AF.

Just as many people make poor parents, we have too many people with poor judgement - ARMED.

But NRA, made it's own torture chamber they are stuck in now.

Pursuit of Money and Influence without discipline in any shape or form plus steamrolling over and dismissing mass shootings paints a brilliant picture of the naked animal in man.

Oliver North bolstered by his prominence for BS'ing America and almost getting away with it - from wiki "he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and ordering the destruction of documents through his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service. North performed some of his community service within Potomac Gardens, a public housing project in southeast Washington, DC. However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU),[30] North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony."

He should have been locked up and still in jail (He certainly looks like he's been doing time).

Congressional defiance needs to be taken seriously after this and as we see now it's becoming a strategy to outwit Congress by criminals...mr prez.

But the NRA infighting is shitshow pf the messiest proportions, plenty flies on the wall watching that mess - A cat fight wanna see.

But Maria Butina of NRA Russia (a fake org/Russian spy co-op) did do America a favor for exposing how mentally weak many 'tough'(in mind only) guys (must have their guns) are and how vulnerable we are as a nation.

The NRA is a corrupt loose free radical and dangerous org that's imploding - as it should.

As long as misguided humans are running it, it will always be a grenade waiting to explode.
Once this implodes.
Another one will emerge...
...only to end the same way.

Because of the 'gun mentality' itself.

BN747



Outstanding analysis BN, I couldn’t agree more

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:51 am
by Max Q
seb146 wrote:
I saw a comment somewhere on social media saying something like "thoughts and prayers have worked so well for the rest of us so it should work well for NRA!"



Very well said SB

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:52 am
by Max Q
stratclub wrote:
I'll just be glad when they stop pushing the lie that the 2nd amendment gives you some sort of right to posses firearms by truncating what the 2nd amendment actually says. Never mind that the 2nd Amendment starts out with the words "A well regulated Militia" which for the most part does not apply today.



Agreed and well put

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:51 pm
by johns624
First, let me say that I'm in favor of some controls. Here is what I believe "well regulated militia" means in the context in which it was written. Back then, the US didn't have much of, or any, standing army. The adult male citizens were the militia. Well regulated, means that members had to have a certain level of training and ownership of certain equipment. IOW, your rifle had to be a certain caliber and you have to have a certain number of lead balls and quantity of black powder. You might also have to own a bedroll and rations for a number of days. That way, there was interchangeability and the commanders could plan a certain way. Think of today's Swiss army. All adults who have served and are in the reserve are given the same rifle. I believe (they used to be) they are given a small number of cartridges to enable them to make it to the armory if they are called up. They also are supplied with clothing and LBE. They are also given ammo to practice. That's what well regulated means.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:16 am
by Ken777
bennett123 wrote:
Magog

So what does a ‘well regulated Militia’ mean?.



I'm in the camp that believe es the first three words are the key. Well regulated would mean. that the government would establish reasonable and responsible measures to ensure ownership is available to citizens and that, when appropriate ownership would be denied.

The problem we have today is that "reasonable and responsible" has been forgotten and greed has taken over the market. I have no doubt that the NRA is grabbing every dollar they can (and spending it faster than it comes in). From the "old days" when the NRA was focused on training and safety to where they are today I find nothing about the NRA that generates Trust in my mind and opinion.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:53 am
by stl07
DiamondFlyer wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I'm a guns person but I would never support the current nra. Political pandering and donations to politicians who repeal any sensible gun regulation do nothing but make America more unsafe and make guns people like me look like extreamists


See, you're part of the problem too. By definition, any regulation is not sensible, in terms of the 2A. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

But the 2nd amendment specifically says "well regulated"

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:56 am
by stl07
Interestingly, it was the NRA that showed me how to use a shotgun safely and gave me some free rounds. Go back to doing that and even lefties may start liking you.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:24 am
by BN747
Ken777 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Magog

So what does a ‘well regulated Militia’ mean?.



I'm in the camp that believe es the first three words are the key. Well regulated would mean. that the government would establish reasonable and responsible measures to ensure ownership is available to citizens and that, when appropriate ownership would be denied.

The problem we have today is that "reasonable and responsible" has been forgotten and greed has taken over the market. I have no doubt that the NRA is grabbing every dollar they can (and spending it faster than it comes in). From the "old days" when the NRA was focused on training and safety to where they are today I find nothing about the NRA that generates Trust in my mind and opinion.


Bingo...and a 'well regulated Militia applied in the world of 1796...not 2019.
The 1796 mindset vs the 2019 mindset are so far apart, none of you would survive then and none of them could live in 2019, except Ben Franklin that is.

Only thing each era has in common - stupid people had guns then...and millions more stupid ones have them today.
And just like the stupid ones then doing stupid things frequently..today just multiply any part of that statement by a factor of 10K-100,000.


BN747

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 1:22 pm
by PIMountaineer
stl07 wrote:
Interestingly, it was the NRA that showed me how to use a shotgun safely and gave me some free rounds. Go back to doing that and even lefties may start liking you.


I can think back to when I was in junior high, seventh grade to be precise. Boy, was that a long time ago it seems. We had a mandatory two-week firearms & bow safety session with the West Virginia State Police. He took his responsibility seriously and we, as students did as well.

As a gun owner, I am in favor of strong regulation. Was it not for the fact that I live on a working farm, I wouldn't bother, except for a single handgun.

Re: What on earth is going on at the NRA?

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:21 pm
by stlgph
Behind the scenes, the people running the show at The NRA .... it's a total mess. Disorganization everywhere in just about any department but no matter the chaos the top function remains the same - maintain the brand and strength of The NRA.

Enter firms such as Ackerman.

I did consulting work for Ackerman McQueen and the Brewer Attorneys firm for a while. I can talk about this now that the time and work contract has passed. It was highly talked about in both offices how they could bill The NRA for just about anything and they would pay the bill no questions asked...such as having copying work and typing work and trips to the post office by the office assistants being turned into billable hours. The NRA saw work was being done and would pay thousands and thousands per month for total b.s. work. Over time, it turned into a cash cow for Ackerman. In the terms of millions and millions of dollars of which they had no problems bragging about in their offices.

After Brewer lost a major client in 3M in winter 2018, Bill Brewer's father and brother in law, who own Ackerman, brought the Brewer firm to The NRA to work on a number of legal matters. Despite the Brewer firm being kicked off of a case in Virginia for failing to file a notice of sanctions with the court, the Brewer firm pretty much continued to bill The NRA for anything and everything they possibly could, including business class last minute airfare between NYC & Dallas (as Brewer spent most of his time in NYC and has a home in Greenwich, CT) so they (Ackerman & Brewer) could hold "strategy meetings", and then Bill could spend a night or two at his Preston Hollow home, of which The NRA would turn around pay the bill, every time.