Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ltbewr
Posts: 15274
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:54 am

The motivations for those that do 'hate' and terrorism crimes are sometimes personal, they are failures in life and get attracted to extremist views but then turn to violence and 'manifestos' to get attention for their beliefs. Just like with this shooting-terror event, they get the attention they seek knowing the coverage of them by our news media and the internet will give as part of their job but also for more watching and in turn ad revenues. Until we find a better balance of coverage of such events, put the discussion of their 'cause' into proper context, these events will continue to happen here and elsewhere in the world.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:09 am

Maloak33 wrote:
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil-that takes religion.

It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.
 
dmg626
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:38 am

seb146 wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Tell me again how much the Republican party and MAGA fan boys love Jews.....



In his manifesto he calls Trump a Zionist and Jew loving traitor so, where did you get your information ?


Just observing day to day life



Sorry the shooter didn’t fit the profile you thought he would be, no need to post false information like you did
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:46 am

Magog wrote:
Maloak33 wrote:
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil-that takes religion.

It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


For the purposes of this example I would say that the mental illness would constitute being a bad person, the inherent behaviors determined only by mental processes anyway.

On the flip side Can anyone find an ethical statement or moral action performed or said in the name of religion that could not have been said or done by a person who does not profess to know of the existence of a deity?

Fred
Image
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:34 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Magog wrote:
Maloak33 wrote:
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil-that takes religion.

It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


For the purposes of this example I would say that the mental illness would constitute being a bad person, the inherent behaviors determined only by mental processes anyway.

Mental illness does not make you a bad person. That’s like saying heart disease makes you a bad person.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:29 pm

Magog wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Magog wrote:
It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


For the purposes of this example I would say that the mental illness would constitute being a bad person, the inherent behaviors determined only by mental processes anyway.

Mental illness does not make you a bad person. That’s like saying heart disease makes you a bad person.
No you are absolutely right. I was incorrect.

The only things that can make good people do bad things are Religion and mental illness, lets just call it mental illness to encompass both.

Fred
Image
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22642
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:49 pm

dmg626 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
dmg626 wrote:


In his manifesto he calls Trump a Zionist and Jew loving traitor so, where did you get your information ?


Just observing day to day life



Sorry the shooter didn’t fit the profile you thought he would be, no need to post false information like you did


So, an angry white man walks into a Jewish house of worship and opens fire because of rhetoric his dear leader spews. What part of that is false?

Not only that, but this guy is still alive. White man with a gun is taken alive. Black man selling single cigarettes dies. Black man sitting in his car dies. Black child playing with a toy dies.

I suppose that is all fake information, too?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:22 pm

Magog wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Magog wrote:
It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


For the purposes of this example I would say that the mental illness would constitute being a bad person, the inherent behaviors determined only by mental processes anyway.

Mental illness does not make you a bad person. That’s like saying heart disease makes you a bad person.


If heart disease were to cause people to make the choice to kill people, yes it would make you a bad person. Anti-social personality disorder, aka sociopathy, is a mental illness. I have no sympathy for it, it's the very definition of being a bad person. In fact, most cluster B personality disorders either make you a bad person or let's say in the case of Borderline personality disorder a sometimes-bad-person.

It's things like schizophrenia where people give sympathy because the person suffering from the illness doesn't necessarily know what's happening or what they are doing. That doesn't seem to be the case with these mass murderers.

If they suffer from "mental illness" it's most likely anti-social personality disorder.

Btw, relating this to another thread, most cluster B personality disorders are linked to childhood abuse, trauma, and negligence. That's why you're better off not beating children and relying on other methods of parenting to enforce rules. You can be stern with kids without hurting them, it just takes an effort most people don't care to make.
情報
 
Maloak33
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:39 am

Magog wrote:
Maloak33 wrote:
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil-that takes religion.

It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


Could be...but I don't "believe" that mental illness is a real thing. To me it's just a scapegoat for some ppl that doesn't want to take responsibility for their actions. Yes there are plenty of ppl with legit illnesses, say cancer, that you don't hear about shooting up a few Jews or Muslims. Its always "Mental Illness" . I'm not saying that what this dude did is right, but maybe he just doesn't like Jews and he had a more aggressive approach to show it. I don't like some cultures or religions out there. To a point I get why these right wing guys do what they did. Might be wrong but hay, its out there.

Mal
Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22642
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:55 am

So they caught this right wing terrorist after he shot up a house of worship but they caught another man before he could do any damage to a white supremacist rally. I wonder what the difference is?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:12 am

Magog wrote:
Maloak33 wrote:
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil, but for good people to do evil-that takes religion.

It could just take mental illness. Just a thought.


Image
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19177
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:13 am

Maloak33 wrote:
Could be...but I don't "believe" that mental illness is a real thing.


Are you suggesting mental illness doesn't exist?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Spar
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 pm

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Wed May 01, 2019 5:55 am

The Daley Beast should be commended for posting this piece, is will gain them no favors from the AIPAC crowd. It does add a sobering view to the discussion about some recent events in the US.
What motivates someone to burst into a Southern California synagogue and shoot unarmed worshipers, there to recite the memorial prayer for the dead?

Depends who you ask: progressives say nationalist, racist ideology, while conservatives say hate. The difference may seem slight, but in fact, it’s why right and left talk past one another—and seem to be moving farther apart.

Progressives, and most scholars, regard the kind of anti-Semitism that motivated the Poway shooting as part of the xenophobic, ultra-nationalistic constellations of hatreds and “otherings” that also, in our day, include Islamophobia, racism, and anti-immigrant animus.

Jews are the “enemy within,” facilitating the evils of immigration and multiculturalism to destroy the motherland. This is borne out by what Poway, Pittsburgh, Christchurch, and other white terrorists all said in their manifestos and other online comments. Like thousands of others of ultra-nationalists in Europe and America, they see their white, European cultures being overrun by foreigners. And they believe that Jews are making it happen. In the words of the Charlottesville white supremacists, “you will not replace us,” a taunt aimed at non-whites, is easily changed to “Jews will not replace us.” That is a political statement—filled with ignorance and hate, of course, but also ideology.

On the right, however, anti-Semitism is regarded as hate, not ideology.
Despite reams and reams of ideological-political writing, from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery to Mein Kampf to the paranoid manifesto of the Poway shooter that allege in precise terms the ways in which Jews destroy the national homeland, conservatives insist that anti-Semitism is simply pure, irrational, timeless, and ahistorical hatred that has nothing to do with any politics whatsoever. It’s the same whether it comes from Pharaoh in Egypt, a Tsarist pogrom, or a Hamas terrorist.

“We forcefully condemn the evil of anti-Semitism and hate, which must be defeated,” President Donald Trump said in response to the Poway shooting.

This definition of anti-Semitism is extraordinarily wrong. It is at odds with what anti-Semites themselves have said since the term was popularized in 1879. It mashes together religious animus, true nationalist anti-Semitism, and resistance to right-wing Zionism. And it is particularly helpful to the very people who exacerbate it, today’s nationalists, for three reasons. "If anti-Semitism is defined simply as anytime someone hates Jews for any reason, then it is a free-floating hatred that finds a home in Palestinian activism, fringe black nationalism, and among Muslim Americans.”

First, of course, it absolves them of any responsibility. To most rational observers, it seems obvious that when Trump spreads lies about the dangers of immigrant crime and Muslim terrorism, he stokes the fires of populist nationalism.

In response to that incitement, some will merely wave a flag and don a red hat. But others will take matters into their own hands, striking back at Jews or Muslims or Mexicans. Some, like Poway shooter John Earnest and Pittsburgh shooter Robert Bowers, may even believe that Trump himself has not gone far enough. They are extending Trump’s logic, not defying it. Yet if anti-Semitism is merely a pathological hatred and has nothing to do with any ideology, all of this is coincidence. Why did anti-Semitic incidents rise 60 percent in the first year of Trump’s presidency? Well, anti-Semitism is an age-old hatred; no one can explain its pathology, the right says.

Once again, such a denial of causality and reality seems facially absurd, and yet, it is what the likes of Trump, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, and their ilk would have us believe. Moreover, since hardly any “mainstream” Republicans have spoken out about Trump’s incitement of hatred, either they believe this delusion as well, or, by refusing to speak, are implicated in the violence that Trump has incited.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/poway-syn ... ref=scroll
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22642
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Another US synagogue shooting

Wed May 01, 2019 6:33 am

Spar wrote:
The Daley Beast should be commended for posting this piece, is will gain them no favors from the AIPAC crowd. It does add a sobering view to the discussion about some recent events in the US.
What motivates someone to burst into a Southern California synagogue and shoot unarmed worshipers, there to recite the memorial prayer for the dead?

Depends who you ask: progressives say nationalist, racist ideology, while conservatives say hate. The difference may seem slight, but in fact, it’s why right and left talk past one another—and seem to be moving farther apart.

Progressives, and most scholars, regard the kind of anti-Semitism that motivated the Poway shooting as part of the xenophobic, ultra-nationalistic constellations of hatreds and “otherings” that also, in our day, include Islamophobia, racism, and anti-immigrant animus.

Jews are the “enemy within,” facilitating the evils of immigration and multiculturalism to destroy the motherland. This is borne out by what Poway, Pittsburgh, Christchurch, and other white terrorists all said in their manifestos and other online comments. Like thousands of others of ultra-nationalists in Europe and America, they see their white, European cultures being overrun by foreigners. And they believe that Jews are making it happen. In the words of the Charlottesville white supremacists, “you will not replace us,” a taunt aimed at non-whites, is easily changed to “Jews will not replace us.” That is a political statement—filled with ignorance and hate, of course, but also ideology.

On the right, however, anti-Semitism is regarded as hate, not ideology.
Despite reams and reams of ideological-political writing, from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery to Mein Kampf to the paranoid manifesto of the Poway shooter that allege in precise terms the ways in which Jews destroy the national homeland, conservatives insist that anti-Semitism is simply pure, irrational, timeless, and ahistorical hatred that has nothing to do with any politics whatsoever. It’s the same whether it comes from Pharaoh in Egypt, a Tsarist pogrom, or a Hamas terrorist.

“We forcefully condemn the evil of anti-Semitism and hate, which must be defeated,” President Donald Trump said in response to the Poway shooting.

This definition of anti-Semitism is extraordinarily wrong. It is at odds with what anti-Semites themselves have said since the term was popularized in 1879. It mashes together religious animus, true nationalist anti-Semitism, and resistance to right-wing Zionism. And it is particularly helpful to the very people who exacerbate it, today’s nationalists, for three reasons. "If anti-Semitism is defined simply as anytime someone hates Jews for any reason, then it is a free-floating hatred that finds a home in Palestinian activism, fringe black nationalism, and among Muslim Americans.”

First, of course, it absolves them of any responsibility. To most rational observers, it seems obvious that when Trump spreads lies about the dangers of immigrant crime and Muslim terrorism, he stokes the fires of populist nationalism.

In response to that incitement, some will merely wave a flag and don a red hat. But others will take matters into their own hands, striking back at Jews or Muslims or Mexicans. Some, like Poway shooter John Earnest and Pittsburgh shooter Robert Bowers, may even believe that Trump himself has not gone far enough. They are extending Trump’s logic, not defying it. Yet if anti-Semitism is merely a pathological hatred and has nothing to do with any ideology, all of this is coincidence. Why did anti-Semitic incidents rise 60 percent in the first year of Trump’s presidency? Well, anti-Semitism is an age-old hatred; no one can explain its pathology, the right says.

Once again, such a denial of causality and reality seems facially absurd, and yet, it is what the likes of Trump, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, and their ilk would have us believe. Moreover, since hardly any “mainstream” Republicans have spoken out about Trump’s incitement of hatred, either they believe this delusion as well, or, by refusing to speak, are implicated in the violence that Trump has incited.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/poway-syn ... ref=scroll


The problem is literally every time there is a hate crime, EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICON says "it is not how I believe so I will not apologize!" but those same people D-E-M-A-N-D an apology for everything from 9/11 to the Upstairs Arson to Eric Garner to Tamir Rice from ever single "liberal" every time. Those Republicons take four words that a Congress woman said and insist that ALL "liberals" believe it and refuse to acknowledge she said any other words.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], emperortk, GalaxyFlyer and 64 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos