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WarRI1
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 20, 2019 2:14 am

B777LRF wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Show me proof that there is no Grand Design.


Playing teacher to your willfull ignorance is the job of absolutely no-one. You're the one who nurses an archaic belief system, thus the burden of proof rests solely on your shoulders.



Willful ignorance???? Show me! Show me some proof that you are not the willfully ignorant one. I can question, I can wonder about those who are willfully ignorant know it all's without knowing a damn provable thing. :hissyfit: :hissyfit:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 20, 2019 2:47 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
Willful ignorance???? Show me! Show me some proof that you are not the willfully ignorant one. I can question, I can wonder about those who are willfully ignorant know it all's without knowing a damn provable thing. :hissyfit: :hissyfit:


There are currently 5.000 odd gods in circulation, I trust you've chosen one of them as your preferred deity without giving any of the others much consideration. You've also chosen to believe in a centuries old text, decided upon by a committee but marketed as the direct word of your cloud master, which has demonstrably been proven wrong a countless number of times. That, my friend, is a prime example of wilful ignorance displayed by those of a religious posture.

And do spare me the hissy fits; science has time and time again disproven religious texts and their dogma. You chose to believe in an imaginary sky fairy, with the sole proof being 'faith'. And you suggest it's on the other party to carry the evidence your flavour of fanaticism is fake? Which demonstrates another fact about your ilk: Your absolute disdain of logic.

The most beautiful thing in the world is not religious freedom, but rather freedom of religion.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 21, 2019 1:41 am

B777LRF wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Willful ignorance???? Show me! Show me some proof that you are not the willfully ignorant one. I can question, I can wonder about those who are willfully ignorant know it all's without knowing a damn provable thing. :hissyfit: :hissyfit:


There are currently 5.000 odd gods in circulation, I trust you've chosen one of them as your preferred deity without giving any of the others much consideration. You've also chosen to believe in a centuries old text, decided upon by a committee but marketed as the direct word of your cloud master, which has demonstrably been proven wrong a countless number of times. That, my friend, is a prime example of wilful ignorance displayed by those of a religious posture.

And do spare me the hissy fits; science has time and time again disproven religious texts and their dogma. You chose to believe in an imaginary sky fairy, with the sole proof being 'faith'. And you suggest it's on the other party to carry the evidence your flavour of fanaticism is fake? Which demonstrates another fact about your ilk: Your absolute disdain of logic.

The most beautiful thing in the world is not religious freedom, but rather freedom of religion.



I did not bother to go back and look at my words on this subject, but I do believe I speculated, not adored, nor joined , nor subjected myself to any religion. I was raised a Catholic, probably still am, but no I am not following any of the 5000 or so Gods available to me, or I can make one up myself if so inclined. You can go on and on, but as I did say, the big bang or science is nothing any more or less than what I was speculating on. You have not one Iota of proof, nor do I, but I can speculate all I want to and be as valid as you think you are.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
BN747
Posts: 6539
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Wed May 22, 2019 5:08 am

WarRI1 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Willful ignorance???? Show me! Show me some proof that you are not the willfully ignorant one. I can question, I can wonder about those who are willfully ignorant know it all's without knowing a damn provable thing. :hissyfit: :hissyfit:


There are currently 5.000 odd gods in circulation, I trust you've chosen one of them as your preferred deity without giving any of the others much consideration. You've also chosen to believe in a centuries old text, decided upon by a committee but marketed as the direct word of your cloud master, which has demonstrably been proven wrong a countless number of times. That, my friend, is a prime example of wilful ignorance displayed by those of a religious posture.

And do spare me the hissy fits; science has time and time again disproven religious texts and their dogma. You chose to believe in an imaginary sky fairy, with the sole proof being 'faith'. And you suggest it's on the other party to carry the evidence your flavour of fanaticism is fake? Which demonstrates another fact about your ilk: Your absolute disdain of logic.

The most beautiful thing in the world is not religious freedom, but rather freedom of religion.



I did not bother to go back and look at my words on this subject, but I do believe I speculated, not adored, nor joined , nor subjected myself to any religion. I was raised a Catholic, probably still am, but no I am not following any of the 5000 or so Gods available to me, or I can make one up myself if so inclined. You can go on and on, but as I did say, the big bang or science is nothing any more or less than what I was speculating on. You have not one Iota of proof, nor do I, but I can speculate all I want to and be as valid as you think you are.


That sums up as a no proof either way, which is sorry to say but a huge stroke of disrespect towards what science has achieved. It’s as if science does nothing for you ...which in a nutshell means you have no use for it except when use your computer, drive ur car or ride a city bus or fly on a plane.

That’s amounts to taking every advantage of the many conveniences of scientific discoveries but zilch as far as the blood, sweat, tears, brain power that made as much possible. No offense, but your wholesale dismissal of science is akin to these mega pastors who don’t believe a word they preach because they’re too busy keeping an eye on the tithe amounts ching chinging in the bank account.

You really have no use for science in your life and should just still with the goat herders manual - it’s much more digestible for your mind.

And you should feel no discomfort in that league...MOST humans on Earth fit right in there with you, but you cannot fault those here who went to some extensive lengths to afford you a means to embark you (your mind) into a more appreciative scientific state of mind. We tried.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink is the best proverb to sum up this discussion.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 2:48 am

BN747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:

There are currently 5.000 odd gods in circulation, I trust you've chosen one of them as your preferred deity without giving any of the others much consideration. You've also chosen to believe in a centuries old text, decided upon by a committee but marketed as the direct word of your cloud master, which has demonstrably been proven wrong a countless number of times. That, my friend, is a prime example of wilful ignorance displayed by those of a religious posture.

And do spare me the hissy fits; science has time and time again disproven religious texts and their dogma. You chose to believe in an imaginary sky fairy, with the sole proof being 'faith'. And you suggest it's on the other party to carry the evidence your flavour of fanaticism is fake? Which demonstrates another fact about your ilk: Your absolute disdain of logic.

The most beautiful thing in the world is not religious freedom, but rather freedom of religion.



I did not bother to go back and look at my words on this subject, but I do believe I speculated, not adored, nor joined , nor subjected myself to any religion. I was raised a Catholic, probably still am, but no I am not following any of the 5000 or so Gods available to me, or I can make one up myself if so inclined. You can go on and on, but as I did say, the big bang or science is nothing any more or less than what I was speculating on. You have not one Iota of proof, nor do I, but I can speculate all I want to and be as valid as you think you are.


That sums up as a no proof either way, which is sorry to say but a huge stroke of disrespect towards what science has achieved. It’s as if science does nothing for you ...which in a nutshell means you have no use for it except when use your computer, drive ur car or ride a city bus or fly on a plane.

That’s amounts to taking every advantage of the many conveniences of scientific discoveries but zilch as far as the blood, sweat, tears, brain power that made as much possible. No offense, but your wholesale dismissal of science is akin to these mega pastors who don’t believe a word they preach because they’re too busy keeping an eye on the tithe amounts ching chinging in the bank account.

You really have no use for science in your life and should just still with the goat herders manual - it’s much more digestible for your mind.

And you should feel no discomfort in that league...MOST humans on Earth fit right in there with you, but you cannot fault those here who went to some extensive lengths to afford you a means to embark you (your mind) into a more appreciative scientific state of mind. We tried.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink is the best proverb to sum up this discussion.

BN747


BS and distortion as usual from you guys. I will not even bother to defend my knowledge of what science has accomplished and what it has not accomplished. What it has not, is proof how this all came to be. You will find out eventually, that I can promise without any fear of being wrong. ;) ;)
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 3:25 am

WarRI1 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:


I did not bother to go back and look at my words on this subject, but I do believe I speculated, not adored, nor joined , nor subjected myself to any religion. I was raised a Catholic, probably still am, but no I am not following any of the 5000 or so Gods available to me, or I can make one up myself if so inclined. You can go on and on, but as I did say, the big bang or science is nothing any more or less than what I was speculating on. You have not one Iota of proof, nor do I, but I can speculate all I want to and be as valid as you think you are.


That sums up as a no proof either way, which is sorry to say but a huge stroke of disrespect towards what science has achieved. It’s as if science does nothing for you ...which in a nutshell means you have no use for it except when use your computer, drive ur car or ride a city bus or fly on a plane.

That’s amounts to taking every advantage of the many conveniences of scientific discoveries but zilch as far as the blood, sweat, tears, brain power that made as much possible. No offense, but your wholesale dismissal of science is akin to these mega pastors who don’t believe a word they preach because they’re too busy keeping an eye on the tithe amounts ching chinging in the bank account.

You really have no use for science in your life and should just still with the goat herders manual - it’s much more digestible for your mind.

And you should feel no discomfort in that league...MOST humans on Earth fit right in there with you, but you cannot fault those here who went to some extensive lengths to afford you a means to embark you (your mind) into a more appreciative scientific state of mind. We tried.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink is the best proverb to sum up this discussion.

BN747


BS and distortion as usual from you guys. I will not even bother to defend my knowledge of what science has accomplished and what it has not accomplished. What it has not, is proof how this all came to be. You will find out eventually, that I can promise without any fear of being wrong. ;) ;)


The 'BS'..that's anger..
So where is the 'distortion'...you are starting to sound like the angry 'clump of cells' crowd, maybe I should have said 'flesh and bone'..oh, those are made of cells too, I win!
Seriously, what's distorted?

Answer after you take a chill pill and 'think'...
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 4:05 am

BN747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

That sums up as a no proof either way, which is sorry to say but a huge stroke of disrespect towards what science has achieved. It’s as if science does nothing for you ...which in a nutshell means you have no use for it except when use your computer, drive ur car or ride a city bus or fly on a plane.

That’s amounts to taking every advantage of the many conveniences of scientific discoveries but zilch as far as the blood, sweat, tears, brain power that made as much possible. No offense, but your wholesale dismissal of science is akin to these mega pastors who don’t believe a word they preach because they’re too busy keeping an eye on the tithe amounts ching chinging in the bank account.

You really have no use for science in your life and should just still with the goat herders manual - it’s much more digestible for your mind.

And you should feel no discomfort in that league...MOST humans on Earth fit right in there with you, but you cannot fault those here who went to some extensive lengths to afford you a means to embark you (your mind) into a more appreciative scientific state of mind. We tried.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink is the best proverb to sum up this discussion.

BN747


BS and distortion as usual from you guys. I will not even bother to defend my knowledge of what science has accomplished and what it has not accomplished. What it has not, is proof how this all came to be. You will find out eventually, that I can promise without any fear of being wrong. ;) ;)


The 'BS'..that's anger..
So where is the 'distortion'...you are starting to sound like the angry 'clump of cells' crowd, maybe I should have said 'flesh and bone'..oh, those are made of cells too, I win!
Seriously, what's distorted?

Answer after you take a chill pill and 'think'...
BN747



Just by saying anything positive about the origin of the universe as you guys love to do is a distortion and BS as I said. You have no proof, you have no proof. The unanswerable mystery and yet you guys blabber on about science proving something about the origin of all this. There is no proof. Now you take a pill and relax, you will have the answer soon enough. I assume you know what I am referring to. ;) ;)
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
BN747
Posts: 6539
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 am

WarRI1 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

BS and distortion as usual from you guys. I will not even bother to defend my knowledge of what science has accomplished and what it has not accomplished. What it has not, is proof how this all came to be. You will find out eventually, that I can promise without any fear of being wrong. ;) ;)


The 'BS'..that's anger..
So where is the 'distortion'...you are starting to sound like the angry 'clump of cells' crowd, maybe I should have said 'flesh and bone'..oh, those are made of cells too, I win!
Seriously, what's distorted?

Answer after you take a chill pill and 'think'...
BN747



Just by saying anything positive about the origin of the universe as you guys love to do is a distortion and BS as I said. You have no proof, you have no proof. The unanswerable mystery and yet you guys blabber on about science proving something about the origin of all this. There is no proof. Now you take a pill and relax, you will have the answer soon enough. I assume you know what I am referring to. ;) ;)


wow, now I know the mind of those who burned Giordano Bruno to death for daring to venture and those who had Galileo under house arrest for his thoughts (which proved true).

So..."Just by saying anything positive about the origin of the universe as you guys love to do is a distortion and BS as I said."
What the hell does that even mean?

We LOVE to say positive things about the universes origins? Should we say something 'negative'? Like what?
What would a negative example look like?

You have no proof, you have no proof.
You've never seen a whale in the Pacific, but you are convinced they are there. You have no proof the Moon is 225K miles from Earth, but you take 'scientist' word for it, so draw the line where you stop believing in science. Or what I said about people like you (you only appreciate) what you can use or whatever is useful to you.

Bottom line, if you accept the science that tells you how far the moon is, how far the sun is, how big the solar system is...then you're foolishly dismissive of all they've achieved, since they've PROVED what you' know' so far...you go and toss all science findings, theories out the window because it doesn't provide you with a warm fuzzy 'once upon a time' origin.

The unanswerable mystery and yet you guys blabber on about science proving something about the origin of all this. There is no proof.
The difference between us and YOU ..is we are following and paying attention what is happening and what is being bandied about as information pours in, you don't. You never had interest beyond your simple 'but how' mentality.

Criticize us as much as you like as that pleases you...but know that such stance is pure intellectual laziness. When that science does answer the 'but how' ... he or she will be heralded as the brightest mind of all time and that finding will be digested by the likes of you as much as you appreciate the Sun's bathing of the Earth..with a yawn. You will have no understanding of the process and appreciation of the path taken to get there. Do you even grasp the importance of the establish CMB? The Cosmic Microwave Background...if you can't make the connection of it's importance with the Big Bang...like I said, stay away or you'll hurt some healthy brain cells.

Understanding some aspects of science require some ground work by the interested party, but if you want the boxed Cracker Jacks answer served up for you quick satisfaction and not willing to put some muscle into grasping it - take a seat and let those willing to poke and prod do the common man's heavy lifting, maybe one a Universe Origins for Dummies wifor your convenience.ll be published

Your approach to this subject is like a 1st time NASCAR viewer asking 'Why don't they change the tires while the car is racing, it'll save more time'..can you imagine the looks that would get? Those are the looks you're getting now.

No pills here, just California legal weed dude, some of which might enlighten you.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
flipdewaf
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Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 5:33 am

WarRI1 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:

BS and distortion as usual from you guys. I will not even bother to defend my knowledge of what science has accomplished and what it has not accomplished. What it has not, is proof how this all came to be. You will find out eventually, that I can promise without any fear of being wrong. ;) ;)


The 'BS'..that's anger..
So where is the 'distortion'...you are starting to sound like the angry 'clump of cells' crowd, maybe I should have said 'flesh and bone'..oh, those are made of cells too, I win!
Seriously, what's distorted?

Answer after you take a chill pill and 'think'...
BN747



Just by saying anything positive about the origin of the universe as you guys love to do is a distortion and BS as I said. You have no proof, you have no proof. The unanswerable mystery and yet you guys blabber on about science proving something about the origin of all this. There is no proof. Now you take a pill and relax, you will have the answer soon enough. I assume you know what I am referring to. ;) ;)

From what I can see science hasn’t claimed to know but you have, how is it that you know?

Fred


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dik909
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 6:44 am

BN747 wrote:
Do you even grasp the importance of the establish CMB? The Cosmic Microwave Background...if you can't make the connection of it's importance with the Big Bang...like I said, stay away or you'll hurt some healthy brain cells.


The above words are the clearest demonstration of your abject ignorance (and/or arrogance), that anyone could ever imagine, because you are blissfully unaware of the fact that Arno Penzias, one of the co-discoverers of Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation, and winners of the 1978 Nobel Prize for physics, is a Theist !!!

I really don't want to see you put your foot so deeply into your own mouth, honestly, so please do your homework before making such ignorant statements:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1997/11/when-science-and-religion-collide-or-why-einstein-wasnt-atheist/

https://scigod.com/file/SGJ_V1(3).pdf



BN747 wrote:
No pills here, just California legal weed dude, some of which might enlighten you.


By all means, tell us more about those "healthy brain cells..."


========================================

An observation: This thread consisted of non-theists asking why people still believe in God, to which multiple answers were given from theists on the Cosmological, Contingency, Ontological, and Moral philosophical arguments for God. To boot, theists have posed critical questions on the immaterial philosophical assumptions & principals upon which the scientific method operates.

These have all in turn been meet with ridicule, bold assertions without any meaningful justification, and myopic non-answers bereft of any deeper self-reflection.

The purpose of this thread was/is not to prove God's existence, but rather to simply ask why people believe. We (theists) have given multiple well-supported answers. The thread's question has been answered.
 
BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 8:54 am

dik909 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Do you even grasp the importance of the establish CMB? The Cosmic Microwave Background...if you can't make the connection of it's importance with the Big Bang...like I said, stay away or you'll hurt some healthy brain cells.


The above words are the clearest demonstration of your abject ignorance (and/or arrogance), that anyone could ever imagine, because you are blissfully unaware of the fact that Arno Penzias, one of the co-discoverers of Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation, and winners of the 1978 Nobel Prize for physics, is a Theist !!!

I really don't want to see you put your foot so deeply into your own mouth, honestly, so please do your homework before making such ignorant statements:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1997/11/when-science-and-religion-collide-or-why-einstein-wasnt-atheist/

https://scigod.com/file/SGJ_V1(3).pdf



BN747 wrote:
No pills here, just California legal weed dude, some of which might enlighten you.


By all means, tell us more about those "healthy brain cells..."


========================================

An observation: This thread consisted of non-theists asking why people still believe in God, to which multiple answers were given from theists on the Cosmological, Contingency, Ontological, and Moral philosophical arguments for God. To boot, theists have posed critical questions on the immaterial philosophical assumptions & principals upon which the scientific method operates.

These have all in turn been meet with ridicule, bold assertions without any meaningful justification, and myopic non-answers bereft of any deeper self-reflection.

The purpose of this thread was/is not to prove God's existence, but rather to simply ask why people believe. We (theists) have given multiple well-supported answers. The thread's question has been answered.


Puh-leeeeezzeeee...superfly, you are good at cutting and pasting as if you know something, AND...you don't.


Your off the charts unique brand of ignorance is in a class all by itself. You are not worth discussing anything beyond cadillacs and fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview mirror.

Your cutting an pasting skills are pathetic ... 'Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation' shows this isn't common knowledge with you because everyone terms it the CMB, Even Google makes it easy - here Google->The cosmic microwave background (CMB, CMBR - 'see that CMB' ), in Big Bang cosmology, is electromagnetic radiation as a remnant from an early stage of the universe, also known as "relic radiation".
...when you googled it you saw the above, then decided you could not post that so you go back to the 1st mentions of the CMB which is like calling a Boeing 707 - the Boeing 367-80 or the Dash 80 of which no one uses within a common frame of discussion.

Disappear dude, your act is old tired weak and anemic. No one is falling for it- although I believe in free speech, just keep that fake knowledge to yourself - stick to your safe space...the BuyBull.

BN747



It's the CMB now, for a reason. Flirt with the subject on your time...I'm not interested such a flight-by-nite, here today gone tomorrow mentalities like yours. Adios, hombre.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 9:05 am

dik909 wrote:
The purpose of this thread was/is not to prove God's existence, but rather to simply ask why people believe. We (theists) have given multiple well-supported answers. The thread's question has been answered.


Your view on this thread seems to marry quite well with your view of the thread topic.
You want to have an idealised view of how things should be without seeing what actually is.
You want the answer of the question of the thread rather than how these threads always go and will always continue to go.

You can deal with the world you want to be in or the world you are in, you seem to rather take a fluffy blanket to protect from the bullets rather than just moving to where there are no bullets.

Why should anybody in this thread about asking why they think god still exists be treated differently from those who would claim the world is flat in the flat earth believers thread?

I am providing a link: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1422667

BN747 wrote:
Puh-leeeeezzeeee...superfly,


Lol, I had no Idea, How many accounts does he/she have?

Fred
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dik909
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 9:48 am

BN747 wrote:
'Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation' shows this isn't common knowledge with you because everyone terms it the CMB, Even Google makes it easy - here Google->The cosmic microwave background (CMB, CMBR - 'see that CMB' ), in Big Bang cosmology, is electromagnetic radiation as a remnant from an early stage of the universe, also known as "relic radiation".


Just to be clear, you're pitching a fit because I termed it 'Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation' and not just 'Cosmic Microwave Background' ? And you think this is a good & convincing argument against... what ?? Arno Penzias being a theist ? Right. Great reasoning. (Are you high right now ?)

Face it: You don't know what CBMR/CMBR/CMB/CBM is. You don't know how it was observed/detected. You know nothing of Red Shift. And you certainly know nothing of how cosmologists have concluded that the universe is past-finite based upon the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem. I'm not trying to be an ass, but this is seriously a topic to which I have devoted the last several years of my life to. It would behoove you to admit that the theological implications of modern cosmology is a topic far beyond your ken.

Also, let the record show that you did not (can not) deny the fact that the CBMR/CMBR/CMB/CBM was discovered by an avowed Theist, which pokes a massive hole in your [tacit] claim that science leads to atheism.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 10:02 am

dik909 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
'Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation' shows this isn't common knowledge with you because everyone terms it the CMB, Even Google makes it easy - here Google->The cosmic microwave background (CMB, CMBR - 'see that CMB' ), in Big Bang cosmology, is electromagnetic radiation as a remnant from an early stage of the universe, also known as "relic radiation".


Just to be clear, you're pitching a fit because I termed it 'Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation' and not just 'Cosmic Microwave Background' ? And you think this is a good & convincing argument against... what ?? Arno Penzias being a theist ? Right. Great reasoning. (Are you high right now ?)

Face it: You don't know what CBMR/CMBR/CMB/CBM is. You don't know how it was observed/detected. You know nothing of Red Shift. And you certainly know nothing of how cosmologists have concluded that the universe is past-finite based upon the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem. I'm not trying to be an ass, but this is seriously a topic to which I have devoted the last several years of my life to. It would behoove you to admit that the theological implications of modern cosmology is a topic far beyond your ken.

Also, let the record show that you did not (can not) deny the fact that the CBMR/CMBR/CMB/CBM was discovered by an avowed Theist, which pokes a massive hole in your [tacit] claim that science leads to atheism.


But nobody knows what was there before the beginning so why not just say that you do not know instead of making it up? Or agreeing with other people who made it up (amounts to the same thing).

The BGV theorem only seems to show that there could have been a beginning, if that was the start then it couldn't have been a god because there was none of anything so god couldn't have been there. If god could have been there then by default the BGV theorem must be wrong. If god was there then it wasn't the beginning because something was already there, unless something made god?

Fred
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dik909
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 12:08 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
But nobody knows what was there before the beginning so why not just say that you do not know instead of making it up? Or agreeing with other people who made it up (amounts to the same thing).

The BGV theorem only seems to show that there could have been a beginning, if that was the start then it couldn't have been a god because there was none of anything so god couldn't have been there. If god could have been there then by default the BGV theorem must be wrong. If god was there then it wasn't the beginning because something was already there, unless something made god?


That is literally the worst objection to God/BGV that I've ever read, and I've read a lot. Congratulations !! :lol:

Alas, your philosophical presuppositions show themselves again, for God is, by definition, uncreated and atemporal.

Forgive me, but you are further demonstrating your ignorance of the most basic theology/philosophy 101.
 
flipdewaf
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Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 12:19 pm

dik909 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
But nobody knows what was there before the beginning so why not just say that you do not know instead of making it up? Or agreeing with other people who made it up (amounts to the same thing).

The BGV theorem only seems to show that there could have been a beginning, if that was the start then it couldn't have been a god because there was none of anything so god couldn't have been there. If god could have been there then by default the BGV theorem must be wrong. If god was there then it wasn't the beginning because something was already there, unless something made god?


That is literally the worst objection to God/BGV that I've ever read, and I've read a lot. Congratulations !! :lol:

Alas, your philosophical presuppositions show themselves again, for God is, by definition, uncreated and atemporal.

Forgive me, but you are further demonstrating your ignorance of the most basic theology/philosophy 101.

What a total crock of sh1t! OH NO! because .... Philosophy! Still no evidence Grade: F-

Uncreated! How do you ducking know!!

Were you the spoiled kid who used to claim to be wearing an ‘everything proof’ suit when you played soldiers?

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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 12:37 pm

Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 1:16 pm

fallap wrote:
Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.


Are they suffering at the hand of God or the hand of man? Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things. God has let suffering happen since Adam and Eve, and always will. God never promises a life without challenges, or suffering for that matter. You have to look at the purpose, and that is to challenge our faith in the face of adversity. Where would our faith be without challenges in life?
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flipdewaf
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 2:45 pm

DL717 wrote:
fallap wrote:
Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.


Are they suffering at the hand of God or the hand of man?


Does it matter? God either:
A. Does exist and cannot help
B. Does exist and does not want to help
C. Does exist can help, would help but does not know of the suffering
D. Does not exist.

DL717 wrote:
Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things. God has let suffering happen since Adam and Eve, and always will.

So as long as I'm evil from the start its ok?
DL717 wrote:
God never promises a life without challenges, or suffering for that matter.

I have seen no credible evidence that god has promised anything, ever.

DL717 wrote:
You have to look at the purpose,

Why the assertion that there is a purpose?


DL717 wrote:
and that is to challenge our faith in the face of adversity. Where would our faith be without challenges in life?


Why do you need faith? What cannot be shown with faith?

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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 3:06 pm

DL717 wrote:
fallap wrote:
Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.


Are they suffering at the hand of God or the hand of man? Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things. God has let suffering happen since Adam and Eve, and always will. God never promises a life without challenges, or suffering for that matter. You have to look at the purpose, and that is to challenge our faith in the face of adversity. Where would our faith be without challenges in life?


My point is, that for people living on the absolute bottom of life, believing in something larger than yourself may serve as some sort of comfort - that it is all part of a greater plan, and that your life will improve once you reach heaven in the afterlife.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 4:05 pm

Science and technology for all of their many benefits (I am, was, and will be a fan) have brought the entire human specie to the brink of catastrophe*, and careful observers do not see a likely path to safety.


*Over population, climate warming, nuclear weapons, to a lesser degree overuse of antibiotics. Human political structures are increasingly failing. The middle is seen only as muddled as extremists are increasing power in most democracies. While I do not see religion as providing the power to escape this, we do need a renewed belief in values. But 'values' really are an item of faith - even such a muddled faith as renaissance and enlightenment values of the 17th and 18th centuries.
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 4:24 pm

Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Thu May 23, 2019 6:44 pm

Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


One of the most respected, believers and non-believers, theology book of the last century Moral Man and Immoral Society by Reinhold Niebuhr addressed this. Evolutionary morality seems to encourage moral behavior at the individual level, at the same time it loses at the larger social and governmental levels. Most of the climate deniers, and very right wing political supporters I know do better at the personal level. (and they might say the same thing at the other levels)
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 1:48 am

Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


Humans are inherently bad and will do good things. If they were inherently “good” then they would always do good things, but we know they don’t.
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BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 am

fallap wrote:
DL717 wrote:
fallap wrote:
Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.


Are they suffering at the hand of God or the hand of man? Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things. God has let suffering happen since Adam and Eve, and always will. God never promises a life without challenges, or suffering for that matter. You have to look at the purpose, and that is to challenge our faith in the face of adversity. Where would our faith be without challenges in life?


My point is, that for people living on the absolute bottom of life, believing in something larger than yourself may serve as some sort of comfort - that it is all part of a greater plan, and that your life will improve once you reach heaven in the afterlife.


The majority of the world's population live in abject poverty, Religion is all their mind has to hang on to...in other words, where else would hope come from? No place.

No hope = Humans returning to their natural state - the Human animal.

Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


They certainly are not. A feral human is no differene from a feral cat or wild dog.

Community came before Religion.

Community fostered bonding, connecting, establishing hierarchy and so on.
Once numbers got so large...religions in every imaginable form sprung forth and the race is one to be the biggest, the best and the 'MOST" true.

Which NONE are.

But as I stated above, it is a great motivator to keep people moving in a direction like a hamster on a running (spinning wheel).

And poor people and the not so poor and well off people (the educated are the True Suckers), like the hamster, keep going and going to no end...because Religion tells them 'a prize' awaits you when it's all over if, IF you do 'these ______(fill in the blank)'.

The poor cannot be called 'suckers' because they are just in an unfortunate state of existence. That false religious promise is the only thing they have to hang onto.
As much as a non-believer I am, even I don't wish to take that away from people who have nothing.

An educated person, however, is a complete sucker to play the hamster in the running wheel game EXPECTING a prize in the end.

The oldest trick in the book ...promises made of the impossible.

The Universe has one Rule - everything, yes -EVERYTHING...Must die. No one gets a pass. NO ONE.

BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 2:47 am

BN747 wrote:
Oldest trick in the book ...promises made of the impossible.
BN747


Sounds like socialism.
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BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 3:09 am

DL717 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Oldest trick in the book ...promises made of the impossible.
BN747


Sounds like socialism.


Soooooo when you become elgible, we can look forward to you declining your SOCIAL(ism) Security, right?

Don't punk out now....man up! Own that anti-Socialism stance!

What say you?

BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 12:09 pm

DL717 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


Humans are inherently bad and will do good things. If they were inherently “good” then they would always do good things, but we know they don’t.


Why does one need to be characterised as 'Inherently good' or 'Inherently bad', Humans (like all other organisms) are 'Inherently a result of hundreds of millions of years of non random selection of random variation based on the phenotypes derived from genetic information' good and bad has absolutely Jack sh1t to do with it.

Is the Kestral that eats a mouse good or bad?

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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 2:36 pm

DL717 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


Humans are inherently bad and will do good things. If they were inherently “good” then they would always do good things, but we know they don’t.

You logic is flawed, you stated:
DL717 wrote:
Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things.

Which by the logic you are presenting means that humans will "always do bad/sinful things" and you and I both know humans don't "always" do bad/sinful things.

Humans certainly don't always do good things (or bad things) we all also know that. But humans do lean toward doing good more than they lean toward bad. As Martin Luther King Jr. so wonderfully said:

"Look at the facts of the world. You see a continual and progressive triumph of the right. I do not pretend to understand the moral universe, the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice."

Tugg
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 2:54 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Humans are inherently good and will do good things.

Tugg


Humans are inherently bad and will do good things. If they were inherently “good” then they would always do good things, but we know they don’t.


Why does one need to be characterised as 'Inherently good' or 'Inherently bad', Humans (like all other organisms) are 'Inherently a result of hundreds of millions of years of non random selection of random variation based on the phenotypes derived from genetic information' good and bad has absolutely Jack sh1t to do with it.

Is the Kestral that eats a mouse good or bad?

Fred

For me it has to do with the fact the humans tend toward "doing better", building and not just destroying, learning from our mistakes in an effort to not repeat those which are damaging to us and the world. We have seen that throughout history. "Good" and "bad" are nebulous terms and that is why I stated it as I did, DL717 made a flat, blank statement and I made and equally flat statement.

Neither is really more correct than the other, however many seem to believe that to be "good" one must believe in some god, and that is not true. History has proven that "morals", overall, are what is beneficial for society. And for society to thrive people must follow those precepts which allow it to do so and that is a self reinforcing loop. The "long arc" so to speak. So "good" equals "beneficial" in my example. Sometimes that involves killing (for food, defense, etc.) or other things that are in general not classified as "good" per se, but are otherwise beneficial in some way to humans.

Ergo: Humans are inherently "good".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri May 24, 2019 3:40 pm

Enlightenment values were cranked into the post WWII settlement. Democracy was expanding. WTO and other international agencies established a world order of sorts. The 'commie' bloc provided an incentive (the needed enemy) to support it all. I see that order now collapsing.
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BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Sat May 25, 2019 3:43 am

Florida pastor refuses to give up millions of dollars stolen in a Ponzi scheme — calling it ‘God’s blessings’
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/florid ... blessings/

Christians can count each and everyone of these cretins, year after year, and still not see how they are being exploited - the individual may comment against it, but they fail to look at the millions who are okay with it..while waiting for the next one.

BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Sat May 25, 2019 4:47 am

DL717 wrote:
fallap wrote:
Take a trip to dirt poor areas of the world where people barely make a living and where people die left and right of preventable diseases and where life in general appears bleak and meaningless, then ask yourself again: Why do people still believe in God.

Even the most hardcore Atheists can, during the wrong circumstances, end up believing in a higher spirit.


Are they suffering at the hand of God or the hand of man? Man is inherently sinful and will do bad things. God has let suffering happen since Adam and Eve, and always will.


Do you believe there was a literal Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?
 
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Sat May 25, 2019 5:31 am

So much to do about nothing. Science tries to explain why while creationism has an irrational belief that God created the heaven and the earth. The trouble with the bible is that it is the perceived word of God and written in a book called the bible as if God wrote the bible. The truth is that the bible is just mans interpretation of mans best guess of an imaginary God's word. Not proof of anything.

Certainly we got hear somehow, but hanging our beliefs on a deity that is not verifiable does not validate God's existence. I don't understand how we got here so it must be God's work is complete BS. At least science does try to validate what truths there are.
 
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 1:27 am

I believe in God because I know for a fact he exists as he's answered some my prayers immediately and due to his blessings the unanswered ASAP prayers were later to the benefit of me. Those unanswered prayers saved from turmoil later in life. GOD exist please respect my beliefs, I m not going to argue or respond to any responses. And I pray for everyone, and please Christian people and believers in God on this forum please pray for me. I understand some will not understand if you do not believe in God why I pray for everyone, please try to be understanding of my religion, and I do apologize if I offend anyone and I sincerely mean that. I have not read any comments in this forum, and I would appreciate if I wouldn't get flamed here due to my beliefs. Thank you guys in advance.
 
BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 5:04 am

Hmmm, a moment in a British sitcom, Fleabag, a show I'm certain no one (outside the UK) on this board is familiar with.

From the show, one of two sisters is having a drink with a female award winner for business achievement. The sheds light on an obvious point I never gave much thought to becauseI am a male.

The actor via the writer (I wonder where he got it from) states 'Men had to create gods, demons, something to forgive them for all the things they did that made them feel bad'...

As simple as that is...it makes perfect sense.

No woman could have written the Bible, the Torah or Quran.

If women did write it...it would be 1000x better, far more logical and a much better tale (which it is).

But the 'male author' approach explains damn near everything wrong with it and it shows.

Anyhow, anyone willing to set aside their 'male-ness' (females, tick off the man-in-charge mentality) and make a judgement call right down the middle, will see how egregious this error factually is.

Humans are deeply flawed creatures...the males are the worst of the two sexes. For TRUTH...they can not be trusted..period.

Sorry, but it's wrong for so many reasons.

BN747
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flipdewaf
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 6:29 am

Oliver2020 wrote:
I believe in God because I know for a fact he exists as he's answered some my prayers immediately and due to his blessings the unanswered ASAP prayers were later to the benefit of me.
more information required to understand if this could be attributed to something more likely than a god.
What was prayed for?
Which was answered?
how was it answered?
Why didn’t the other ones matter?
who was with you when you prayed?

Oliver2020 wrote:
I Those unanswered prayers saved from turmoil later in life. GOD exist please respect my beliefs, I m not going to argue or respond to any responses.
so you have evidence to show they there is a supernatural being that could potentially invalidate all science and end suffering and hunger due to the enormity of its power but you won’t even write some words on the internet about it?
Oliver2020 wrote:
And I pray for everyone
including the hungry and starving and oppressed ? Why isn’t god answering Jose prayers?
Oliver2020 wrote:
and please Christian people and believers in God on this forum please pray for me. I understand some will not understand if you do not believe in God why I pray for everyone, please try to be understanding of my religion,
how have you tried to be understanding of your own religion, I had a New Years resolution to stop giving respect where none is due.
Oliver2020 wrote:
and I do apologize if I offend anyone and I sincerely mean that. I have not read any comments in this forum,
well I would suggest you do
Oliver2020 wrote:
and I would appreciate if I wouldn't get flamed here due to my beliefs.
pray to not get flamed, or have an honest discussion
Oliver2020 wrote:
Thank you guys in advance.




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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 7:39 am

Oliver2020 wrote:
GOD exist please respect my beliefs, I m not going to argue or respond to any responses. And I pray for everyone, and please Christian people and believers in God on this forum please pray for me.


Sounds to me like your 'belief' and 'faith' are somewhat fragile. You believe because of coincidences.
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 8:50 am

It all boils down to education. Raise children without the concept of religion until they're 18, and see how many convert after that.

In a sense it's what happens in my country, France, even though there is no deliberate experiment going on : very few people are really religious. That might change with inroads made by Islam, but we shall see.
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BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Mon May 27, 2019 8:55 pm

Aesma wrote:
It all boils down to education. Raise children without the concept of religion until they're 18, and see how many convert after that.

In a sense it's what happens in my country, France, even though there is no deliberate experiment going on : very few people are really religious. That might change with inroads made by Islam, but we shall see.


Hopefully education by way of schools and yes, 'internet education (interaction)' will keep their brains on the move but your concern of Islamic influence is disturbing. More so if were christian driven because it's 'in-your-face' fanaticism (so X'tian teachings are equally as bad).

BN747
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OriginalFalcon
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 2:25 pm

Why not? I'm no holy roller, but the fact is that none of us know for certain whether God is real or not? There is no proof either way.

I get sick of seeing "believers" argue with atheists, and visa-versa, throwing insults about this subject. Again, the fact is none of us know. By the time we do find out the truth, we'll have taken our last breath in this existence, and it'll be too late to argue about it.

So "believers", why not just say to atheists, "God bless you, you have the right to believer that", and atheists say to believers, "I respect your viewpoint. Peace."
 
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm

How about an agreement between most believers and non-believers (and the muddled middle) that we uphold enlightenment values? This would include the substantial majority the world around. It is time to end the whipsawing of government by extremists. Last century it was extremists of the left and of the right. There are few Marxists left around the world. Rightists are a problem.
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OriginalFalcon
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 3:34 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
How about an agreement between most believers and non-believers (and the muddled middle) that we uphold enlightenment values? This would include the substantial majority the world around. It is time to end the whipsawing of government by extremists. Last century it was extremists of the left and of the right. There are few Marxists left around the world. Rightists are a problem.


Are you suggesting that believers be silenced? Again, I'm no holy roller, but that sounds a bit frightening to me.
 
BN747
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 4:09 pm

OriginalFalcon wrote:
Why not? I'm no holy roller, but the fact is that none of us know for certain whether God is real or not? There is no proof either way.

I get sick of seeing "believers" argue with atheists, and visa-versa, throwing insults about this subject. Again, the fact is none of us know. By the time we do find out the truth, we'll have taken our last breath in this existence, and it'll be too late to argue about it.

So "believers", why not just say to atheists, "God bless you, you have the right to believer that", and atheists say to believers, "I respect your viewpoint. Peace."


1) Because that is just referee like action to quail a discussion and not the passions of each side which can flair up in a heartbeat by way of a lunkheaded act from some figure of influence.

2) As defusing as this simple approach appears it only lives on the thin surface but totally ignores the underpinnings if the entire conflict-the driving impetus of each side. Those in the middle are uncertain and confused.

What is overlooked in your suggestion is ‘why they hold the views that they do.

Believers defy, ignore and are too lazy to invest the time to weigh and study the intellectual achievements leading the way towards a more scientific world. And it’s easier by far to accept being told what to think because humans are built that way - to take the easiest way out of a ‘thinking contest’.

Non-believers range from the most simplistic who see that religious text are flawed, conflicting, confusing and ambiguous to those who truly grasp the scope of how insignificant Earth, it’s solar system are among what has been discovered to date. To a mind like that, you are asking them (us) to dismiss their findings and to tacitly condone, remain silence or support ‘ignorance’: Example, I was standing in a checkout lane as a woman ahead of me was carrying on about ‘how good the lord was’ ...it took everything I had to not blurt out - lady, you sound like child waiting for Santa, grow the hell up!’.

So those two cannot occupy the same space, the believers can’t call the ‘non-believers’ ..ignorant, because they learned and invested in going beyond Earth-bound knowledge championed as ‘truth’.

BUT the Non-believers can call the ‘believers’ ignorant (and remember - We are ALL born ignorant..no exceptions) so no offense to anyone, but it is true, those who have invested the time to familiarize themselves with the laws of physics, it’s applied use in astrophysics and beyond are leaving those who opt out in the dust. It’s like one group is llearning a second language, a third, a fourth and expanding. The other group, the believers, are stuck in first gear..stuck in a void that requires no brain power, a group were even non-educated child can know as much as a church leader about ‘their religion’.

And asking the multilinguals to respect the lessers is easy But asking the lessers to respect those that are more studied is impossible and insulting to them because you asking them acknowledge ‘ that they are ignorant of scientific facts’...and is a difficult thing to do, to ask a person to own up to not knowing anything. That’s a tough ask.

That is the reality of believers vs non-believers. I for one can’t seriously take a believer, especially after a debate with a follower of Islam, the ignorance was astonishing! Just absolute madness, now that’s when your suggestion comes in handy. I cannot persuade him because he lacks the most simplest common frame of reference to even hold a scientific discussion but I can completely see and understand where his viewpoint is anchored and I go as deep as he wants to in discussing it it because it is all simplistic word salad of a religious flavor. That goes for Christianity and Judaism as well, but again the adverse is not possible- worlds apart and as new developments are uncovered....the gap just grows farther and farther apart.

And ‘never the twain shall meet’ to borrow a Kipling line, it’s a fact. One group is constantly moving forward and away from the ‘the old’ and the other is hanging on for dear life to ‘the old (school of thought).

In a scene from a Daniel Craig film where he is a Nazi avoiding Jew trying lead others from SS soldiers, he and his gang come upon a group of hidden Jews led by a group of Rabbis.

Craig’s character: Look, the soldiers will be here any minute, you all must come with us now.

Rabbi: No my son, we will wait for the messiah, our faith in the messiah will keep us safe.

Craig: ok, you do that, anyone who wants to live..come with us.

You can guess what the majority did...they bolted with Craig.

Now, to think that such real life& death scenarios did not occur is foolish, they certainly did. And that’s what religion demands, that you invest yourself and stake your claim with them.

Science says ‘see and decide for yourself’ ...and when look and see with your own eyes through a telescope and see Saturn- it’s a view that you never forget, something 10x as far as the sun yet larger than life itself. It tells you there more, much much more beyond our earthly knowledge...and the chase begins.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2996
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 5:46 pm

OriginalFalcon wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
How about an agreement between most believers and non-believers (and the muddled middle) that we uphold enlightenment values? This would include the substantial majority the world around. It is time to end the whipsawing of government by extremists. Last century it was extremists of the left and of the right. There are few Marxists left around the world. Rightists are a problem.


Are you suggesting that believers be silenced? Again, I'm no holy roller, but that sounds a bit frightening to me.


?? I didn't suggest silencing anybody. If your religion rejects enlightenment values where do you stand on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Americans rejecting those two documents deserve approbation.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 5:49 pm

Non-believers on this site seem to come up with as silly and childish things as the believers.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Tue May 28, 2019 8:37 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Non-believers on this site seem to come up with as silly and childish things as the believers.

Why would that be a shock to you? Non-believers are also humans and so open to the same types of errors and ignorance’s as believers, just different ones and some have more ignorances than others.

Fred


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tommy1808
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:30 am

WarRI1 wrote:
When someone explains how this all came about from the beginning, then maybe I will not think a God is possible. I do not want to hear about the big bang theory.


So... you want to know how our universe came to be, but right away don't want to hear about part of the explanation?

The big bang just happens to be part of that explanation....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:49 am

OriginalFalcon wrote:
Why not? I'm no holy roller, but the fact is that none of us know for certain whether God is real or not? There is no proof either way.


How many gnostic atheists have you met? Pretty much all atheists are agnostic, almost all believers are gnostic. Atheists put an error bar on their probabilistic approach to the question. It is just that we see no imperial evidence for gods or their workings, and there have been tests of that hypothesis, and no need for a God to explain the reality we live in.

Burden of proof lies with whomever claims that something exists, not the other way round. Ever met an atheist, gnostic or not, that has an upfront declaration of faith stating that they will reject all evidence proving that a God or Gods exists? There are many places where you have to sign a declaration like that to the opposite effect to get a job....

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Evidence for God's existence so far: zero.

That is why the argument is always one of incredulity: you can not explain how that came about, so God must have done it! As if that proofs anything but the limitations of our knowledge.

So "believers", why not just say to atheists, "God bless you, you have the right to believer that", and atheists say to believers, "I respect your viewpoint. Peace."


Because gnostig believes claim as fact which isn't evidently true? What's next, 2+2=5 is a viewpoint to be respected, doing engineering work with Pi=3 because of deeply held religious believes?

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Why do people still believe in God?

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:30 pm

Just to toss something new into this discussion. Stoicism seems to have been comfortable with believing/not believing, agnosticisms of various flavors, or even a sort of look that was kind of existential. Modern purveyors of Stoicism think likewise. God(s) or not, not a big deal, what is a big deal is how to figure out living a good life.
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