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User avatar
par13del
Posts: 8423
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: EU elections

Tue May 28, 2019 6:28 pm

Aesma wrote:
What do you expect to happen the day after Brexit ? What will change in your life ? You will still live in the same home, still have the same job (hopefully), still buy groceries at the same shop. Prices might change, products might change a bit, but other than that ?

Disclaimer, playing devils advocate:
1. Next day chlorinated chicken is sold in stores
2. Growth hormone beef is on the shelves
3. The USA sets the foreign policy for the UK
4. The USA takes over the NHS
5. All UK doctors are dismissed and USA HMO's schedule the doctors to visit the UK on a monthly rotation basis
6. All air travel to the EU ceases immediately
7. UK registered a/c can no longer over fly or fly into EU airspace
8. All union workers will loose their jobs immediately
9. All civil rights will be suspended and police will arrest whoever they want to whenever they want to with no date in court required
10. Toxic chemicals previously banned in the EU will be mandated by nightfall
11. Traffic lights will cease to function as no one will be able to handle the traffic management system
12. Ferries will no longer operate
13. Chunnel will collapse
14. Blue passports will not be accepted for travel to the EU
15. UK citizens must apply in Brussels for visa's, how they will get there is unknown since all travel from the UK to EU will be banned
16. Bombings will commence in NI

Those are just some that were listed in the various versions of these Brexit threads.
 
A101
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: EU elections

Tue May 28, 2019 10:02 pm

Olddog wrote:
Make my day and just do it instead of empty rhetoric on the internet :)


It’s a little thing called parliament getting in our way.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:19 am

Grizzly410 wrote:

Btw, the link provided doesn’t even support the claim that ECHR dictates anything, it just reminded Poland its duty in front of the Human Right Convention it ratified in its own name.


There is nothing in Human Rights Convention requiring that cities allow demonstration of naked butts on the streets. There are many people in many places who have problems with that. And ECHR nonetheless required to allow such behavior. This is what many people see as dictate.
 
anrec80
Posts: 1734
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:25 am

Aesma wrote:
Moving around isn't that easy for some people.


I agree, but for whom life is getting easier lately?

Aesma wrote:
My grandparents all moved a lot (including half way round the world), several of my uncles and aunts moved back to their parents' country (Italy) and now my Italian cousins, despite high level diplomas, struggle for work as they're not in the most dynamic part of the country. It's not the worst either, but clearly they could find jobs no problem in Milano or Torino, yet they don't move. The safety net in this case is called family, and small jobs like serving pizza.


If someone wants to stay as opposed to moving - this is their right and choice. But they should not make it society's problem and require that taxpayers support them financially.

Aesma wrote:
In France there is the added parameter of real estate, people like owning their home, and the market is such that in places without jobs houses are worth nothing, and in places with jobs real estate, or even just rents, are crazy.

With that said, what you're talking about is basically Macron's program for France. After he started on this path, a lot of people aren't happy about it. We shall see if he continues anyway, that's what he says he's gonna do.


I understand people aren't happy with that - they want jobs which enable them sustain certain living standards. But first - nearly all Western countries are getting poorer really, and drop in living standards is inevitable. These times aren't 1960s, the world is entirely different.

Speaking of such disproportions in housing pricing - well, then the Government should find a way to return those industrial middle class jobs into small towns, so that there are opportunities there too and people have options other than flocking to Paris and a few other large cities.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 11367
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:57 am

I don't think western countries are getting poorer at all. It's just that less people get more of the money. And not just greedy capitalists or whatever, simply people with a skill in demand, versus people with no useful skill.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 7:48 am

anrec80 wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:

Btw, the link provided doesn’t even support the claim that ECHR dictates anything, it just reminded Poland its duty in front of the Human Right Convention it ratified in its own name.


There is nothing in Human Rights Convention requiring that cities allow demonstration of naked butts on the streets. There are many people in many places who have problems with that. And ECHR nonetheless required to allow such behavior. This is what many people see as dictate.


Sure, you must know the Convention better than the court enforcing it. :rotfl:

And, AGAIN, that have absolutely nothing to do with EU and its elections anyway. Therefore off topic.
I'll stop here, you can lead a horse to the water, but.... ;)
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 8823
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 10:23 am

anrec80 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Moving around isn't that easy for some people.


I agree, but for whom life is getting easier lately?

Aesma wrote:
My grandparents all moved a lot (including half way round the world), several of my uncles and aunts moved back to their parents' country (Italy) and now my Italian cousins, despite high level diplomas, struggle for work as they're not in the most dynamic part of the country. It's not the worst either, but clearly they could find jobs no problem in Milano or Torino, yet they don't move. The safety net in this case is called family, and small jobs like serving pizza.


If someone wants to stay as opposed to moving - this is their right and choice. But they should not make it society's problem and require that taxpayers support them financially.

Aesma wrote:
In France there is the added parameter of real estate, people like owning their home, and the market is such that in places without jobs houses are worth nothing, and in places with jobs real estate, or even just rents, are crazy.

With that said, what you're talking about is basically Macron's program for France. After he started on this path, a lot of people aren't happy about it. We shall see if he continues anyway, that's what he says he's gonna do.


I understand people aren't happy with that - they want jobs which enable them sustain certain living standards. But first - nearly all Western countries are getting poorer really, and drop in living standards is inevitable. These times aren't 1960s, the world is entirely different.

Speaking of such disproportions in housing pricing - well, then the Government should find a way to return those industrial middle class jobs into small towns, so that there are opportunities there too and people have options other than flocking to Paris and a few other large cities.


You are contradicting yourself in one post. Either you want the support of the government or not, you can't have it both ways.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:04 pm

What a lot of remoaners would not have appreciated about last weeks election, many of those that support Brexit would not have bothered voting. They feel letter down by the inaction on implementing our decision to leave. Probably why turnout in the UK was so poor.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12041
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:25 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Idk what I have left to say on this. Had I been a Belgian - I would have felt totally disrespected and offended, together with my country. Someone who isn’t Belgian citizen - insists they have an absolute right to crash by at any time at any speed they like and not even bother to register at entry? This is just not what works, obviously. Entering some other country is a privilege, not a right.

And then you’re wondering where euro-skepticism comes from. Even if I had been a Schengen supporter, this stance would have been shattered in my mind due to this attitude. I think vast majority of Americans or Canadians would have felt this way as well. You could have at least kept this attitude to yourself.


You are certainly not an EU citizen, so what is your point. You are, as you claim yourself in numinous of Russian related threads where you are a passionated defender of everything Putin does - I am not saying you are a Russian troll -, a Canadian born, living in the US. So you have the right to live in another country, sure you have asked, but still kind of strange to blader about this.
What you fail to understand is that within the EU everything is reciprocal, so the Belgian government has given me the right to enter whenever I please and the Dutch government has given the right to a Belgium to enter whenever he pleases. Of course we need to obey the rules of the specific country, which I do. I have no problem with that at all and I think it is an open and welcome attitude.

Hey, I take offence in your attitude towards freedom and fundamental rights (Putin is the best right) while enjoying the same freedoms in the US, so I take your remarks with a grain of salt.



I am totally opposed to EU freedom of movement. My primary aim of voting Brexit.

Why should Dutch, German, French and Czech Nationals be given a right to freely move to the UK, whilst our closest Allies (Americans) cannot. The same with Commonwealth nations.

Why is it ok for Europeans to freely move around and live in Europe, but not Africans and Asians.


You can move to The Netherlands, Germany, France and the Czech Republic, you cannot move to freely to America, so why should Americans be given freedom to move to the UK. It does annoy me that NZ, Canada and Australia citizens don’t get the respect they deserve in get UK, Americans don’t deserve any special treatment, they never reciprocate.

Why should Africans and Asians be able to move freely to Europe when Europeans can’t move freely to Africa or Asia?
 
JJJ
Posts: 3164
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 4:51 pm

sebolino wrote:
JJJ wrote:

I am totally opposed to EU freedom of movement. My primary aim of voting Brexit.

Why should Dutch, German, French and Czech Nationals be given a right to freely move to the UK, whilst our closest Allies (Americans) cannot. The same with Commonwealth nations.

Why is it ok for Europeans to freely move around and live in Europe, but not Africans and Asians.



Why is it ok for people from London to move freely to Scotland ? Why is it ok from your neighbour from the other street to walk in your street ?
You're just disputing the concept of economic and political entity, be it a nation, a city, or a union like the EU or the USA.


For the record, I didn't write that.
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 8823
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Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 5:20 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
What a lot of remoaners would not have appreciated about last weeks election, many of those that support Brexit would not have bothered voting. They feel letter down by the inaction on implementing our decision to leave. Probably why turnout in the UK was so poor.


That is an assumption.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 5:30 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
What a lot of remoaners would not have appreciated about last weeks election, many of those that support Brexit would not have bothered voting. They feel letter down by the inaction on implementing our decision to leave. Probably why turnout in the UK was so poor.


That is an assumption.


Half a dozen people I know didn’t vote and want a hard Brexit.

That is just me. I wonder many there out there in total? Who knows?

We can’t just rule it out though can we.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1017
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Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 5:49 pm

It was an election. Or you vote or you shut up. Nobody cares what could happen if........
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
Posts: 8823
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Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 7:43 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
What a lot of remoaners would not have appreciated about last weeks election, many of those that support Brexit would not have bothered voting. They feel letter down by the inaction on implementing our decision to leave. Probably why turnout in the UK was so poor.


That is an assumption.


Half a dozen people I know didn’t vote and want a hard Brexit.

That is just me. I wonder many there out there in total? Who knows?

We can’t just rule it out though can we.



Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. Welcome to your bubble.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: EU elections

Wed May 29, 2019 10:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Dutchy wrote:

That is an assumption.


Half a dozen people I know didn’t vote and want a hard Brexit.

That is just me. I wonder many there out there in total? Who knows?

We can’t just rule it out though can we.



Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. Welcome to your bubble.



When when you look at the turnout figures for the 2015/17 &2016 referenda, Anecdotal evidence is most only evidence one can look too.

I actually have some friends who voted on both sides at the referenda who are so fed up with it that they sat out the EU election and have said they will sit out the next GE if it happens because they think the next GE will be one big shit fight, and have lost all interest in it. To a degree I don’t blame them. I suppose that’s one of the benefits of compulsory voting, makes you participate even if you vote informal.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 3:23 am

The best joke was in today: Emanuel Macron demands the new president of the EU commission have held a high level political executive office before, so basically only Vestager, Timmermans and Barnier qualify for him. Notable exception is Manfred Weber, who is Angela Merkel's candidate.

Now not that I am in any way pro-Weber, frankly I don't care who who is the Secretary General of the Central Committee of the EUSSR and who is a mere member of the Politburo.

But it's rather hypocritical that someone like Macron, who rose to President without having held political office before, demand such a thing.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 6:56 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Dutchy wrote:

That is an assumption.


Half a dozen people I know didn’t vote and want a hard Brexit.

That is just me. I wonder many there out there in total? Who knows?

We can’t just rule it out though can we.



Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. Welcome to your bubble.


Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:11 am

You can try to portray that vote as you wish. The only evidence is that only a third that bothered to vote were voting for you hard brexit.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 8:11 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]

Half a dozen people I know didn’t vote and want a hard Brexit.

That is just me. I wonder many there out there in total? Who knows?

We can’t just rule it out though can we.



Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. Welcome to your bubble.


Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Oh ok, and you are telling a falsehood again.

Source

Voter turnout in the UK was up, from 2009 (34.7%), 2014 (35.60%) and now at 37% in 2019, it is even the second highest turnout in history, only in 2004 it was better with 38.52%.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
Posts: 17040
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 8:32 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Very low? :shakehead:

Turnout for EU elections has always been lower than local or general elections in the UK, but this vote was actually the second highest turnout in the history of EU elections in the UK (behind only 2004). Apart from a very low one in 1999, turnout in the UK has consistently hovered around the mid-30s percentage.
http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-pa ... urnout.htm

Olddog wrote:
You can try to portray that vote as you wish. The only evidence is that only a third that bothered to vote were voting for you hard brexit.


Indeed. More people voted for parties with an anti-Brexit stance.

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48422801
Many of its policies are unknown, it produced no manifesto, and it has avoided answering detailed questions on immigration or economic policy.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14049
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 10:04 am

To me the EU elections are a barometer of how things have changed in the 5 years since the last elections in Europe and in reaction to those changes.

The mass migrations of mostly poor persons from Syria, other areas in the ME as well as North Africa due to wars, drought, economic and political instability. The costs to taxpayers, threats to ways of life, taking jobs (usually the dirtiest ones), violence by some (as seen in some French and German cities), most being Muslim, their demands for their culture to be acknowledged and accepted. That has all turned off many who believe they can't celebrate Christmas, cannot go into certain neighborhoods, increasing rates of rape/sexual assault, that long time citizens have to change their lives instead of the migrants integrating into their lives and communities. I suspect the new EU Parliament will put in new laws to limit entry into the EC for those from those regions of the world, more aggressive control of borders of the EU countries and allowing member governments to limit their taking in new migrants, in particular from the Islamic world.

Anger as to intra-EC movement for jobs by people from the poorer EC member countries to the richer countries, reducing wages and taking jobs away from locals.

Transfer of many jobs from the 'rich' countries to poorer and lower labor cost countries from cars to food like from the UK to Poland for example.

Too much regulation that tramples on what some countries can have for food and other products, can't subsidies their own farms and corporations.

Taking away countries abilities to control their economies, monetary polices, social needs spending, jobs.

Resentment of the 'richer' countries to have to subsidize poorer, and corrupt member countries.

Too much power in a few countries, in particular by Germany which seems to play by its own rules. Part of that may be a hangover affect from WW II.

That the EU grew too big, too fast, especially as to poorer eastern countries, diluting the power of the pre-expansion members.

Many feel that the Brussels Bureaucrats don't take into account how the people really feel, are too big, too powerful and too full of believe they are right.

In think we will see a smaller, less powerful and 'right sizing' of the EU. There will be a paring back of the bureaucracy, allow more national autonomy, some countries become like Norway and taking back some sovereignty. For sure a tightening up of the outer border of EU countries with the non-EU to keep out persons from outside it. EU becoming more of a co-coordinator among the countries for trade, not most aspects of life. The Brexit and similar movements in France and elsewhere in the EU are signs that the EU had reached or even exceeded what most people want and must evolve or die.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 10:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


Anecdotal evidence is no evidence. Welcome to your bubble.


Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Oh ok, and you are telling a falsehood again.

Source

Voter turnout in the UK was up, from 2009 (34.7%), 2014 (35.60%) and now at 37% in 2019, it is even the second highest turnout in history, only in 2004 it was better with 38.52%.


So 37% to you isnt a low turnout?

Whether it was up or not does not matter. But when less than 1 in 2 vote we can all agree it was a low turnout.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 10:07 am

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Very low? :shakehead:

Turnout for EU elections has always been lower than local or general elections in the UK, but this vote was actually the second highest turnout in the history of EU elections in the UK (behind only 2004). Apart from a very low one in 1999, turnout in the UK has consistently hovered around the mid-30s percentage.
http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-pa ... urnout.htm

Olddog wrote:
You can try to portray that vote as you wish. The only evidence is that only a third that bothered to vote were voting for you hard brexit.


Indeed. More people voted for parties with an anti-Brexit stance.

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48422801
Many of its policies are unknown, it produced no manifesto, and it has avoided answering detailed questions on immigration or economic policy.


Again you are incorrect.

Read Labours last election manifesto. You may learn something.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 11:56 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Very low? :shakehead:

Turnout for EU elections has always been lower than local or general elections in the UK, but this vote was actually the second highest turnout in the history of EU elections in the UK (behind only 2004). Apart from a very low one in 1999, turnout in the UK has consistently hovered around the mid-30s percentage.
http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-pa ... urnout.htm

Olddog wrote:
You can try to portray that vote as you wish. The only evidence is that only a third that bothered to vote were voting for you hard brexit.


Indeed. More people voted for parties with an anti-Brexit stance.

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48422801
Many of its policies are unknown, it produced no manifesto, and it has avoided answering detailed questions on immigration or economic policy.


Again you are incorrect.

Read Labours last election manifesto. You may learn something.


The Brexit party had no manifesto and has no policies unless you call "crashing out of the EU" a policy. Or could you point us in the right direction of the policies of the Brexitparty or even a manifesto?

Otherwise, I guess you are one of the voters whom deemed it very unimportant what the party which you entrust your vote to, actually does with the vote.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 11:59 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Dismiss it then. Turn out was very low. Got to be a reason.


Oh ok, and you are telling a falsehood again.

Source

Voter turnout in the UK was up, from 2009 (34.7%), 2014 (35.60%) and now at 37% in 2019, it is even the second highest turnout in history, only in 2004 it was better with 38.52%.


So 37% to you isnt a low turnout?

Whether it was up or not does not matter. But when less than 1 in 2 vote we can all agree it was a low turnout.


It is a low turnout, but it isn't lower than in other years, it went actually up. Your narrative was, what I and other read into it, because of Brexit it was low and that isn't the case.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:26 pm

aviationaware wrote:
The best joke was in today: Emanuel Macron demands the new president of the EU commission have held a high level political executive office before, so basically only Vestager, Timmermans and Barnier qualify for him. Notable exception is Manfred Weber, who is Angela Merkel's candidate.

Now not that I am in any way pro-Weber, frankly I don't care who who is the Secretary General of the Central Committee of the EUSSR and who is a mere member of the Politburo.

But it's rather hypocritical that someone like Macron, who rose to President without having held political office before, demand such a thing.


Actually Macron was a high profile economy minister under president Hollande, until he stabbed him in the back by announcing his candidacy for the 2017 presidential election.

Nobody likes Manfred Weber, not even the Germans.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:28 pm

Aesma wrote:
Nobody likes Manfred Weber, not even the Germans.

Please remind us about Micron's approval ratings.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:31 pm

What I find ironic about the rise of populist right parties in the EU, and them talking about bandying together to change the EU (especially before the election, not so much now), is that it doesn't make sense. They want to do what's best for their own country, regardless of the consequences to others.

Italy wants migrants to be shared amongst EU countries, Poland and Hungary would never agree to that.
Italy, France (Le Pen) and others want an end to eastern europeans coming and undercutting local workers, again Poland and Hungary hate the idea.
Countries contributing to the EU budget want to cut it, countries benefiting from the money don't.

Etc.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Nobody likes Manfred Weber, not even the Germans.

Please remind us about Micron's approval ratings.


Enough to be president for 8 more years.

Popular presidents in France are presidents who do nothing, he's not interested in doing that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
noviorbis77
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:47 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Very low? :shakehead:

Turnout for EU elections has always been lower than local or general elections in the UK, but this vote was actually the second highest turnout in the history of EU elections in the UK (behind only 2004). Apart from a very low one in 1999, turnout in the UK has consistently hovered around the mid-30s percentage.
http://www.ukpolitical.info/european-pa ... urnout.htm



Indeed. More people voted for parties with an anti-Brexit stance.

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48422801


Again you are incorrect.

Read Labours last election manifesto. You may learn something.


The Brexit party had no manifesto and has no policies unless you call "crashing out of the EU" a policy. Or could you point us in the right direction of the policies of the Brexitparty or even a manifesto?

Otherwise, I guess you are one of the voters whom deemed it very unimportant what the party which you entrust your vote to, actually does with the vote.


Given I have no real interest in EU elections, nor see any value in an EU Parliament, it was no concern of mine that the Brexit Party had no manifesto.

The concern about no manifesto cannot be widespread from their supporters given that they are the largest political party in the EU Parliament.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 12:58 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Given I have no real interest in EU elections, nor see any value in an EU Parliament, it was no concern of mine that the Brexit Party had no manifesto.

The concern about no manifesto cannot be widespread from their supporters given that they are the largest political party in the EU Parliament.


And yet you decided to give us Farage again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Given I have no real interest in EU elections, nor see any value in an EU Parliament, it was no concern of mine that the Brexit Party had no manifesto.

The concern about no manifesto cannot be widespread from their supporters given that they are the largest political party in the EU Parliament.


And yet you decided to give us Farage again.


You are very welcome.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:05 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Given I have no real interest in EU elections, nor see any value in an EU Parliament, it was no concern of mine that the Brexit Party had no manifesto.

The concern about no manifesto cannot be widespread from their supporters given that they are the largest political party in the EU Parliament.


And yet you decided to give us Farage again.


You are very welcome.


We had him for 20 years already, we were happy that you lot took custody over him for a while.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:

The Brexit party had no manifesto and has no policies unless you call "crashing out of the EU" a policy. Or could you point us in the right direction of the policies of the Brexitparty or even a manifesto?

&
scbriml wrote:

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.


I find this all very odd, why would the Brexit party require a manifesto for long term intentions in the EU parliament when we were not supposed to be voting in it in the first place and secondly they should be gone after the 31st October. There are a lot of people like myself who saw voting at the EU elections as a protest vote on how government has bungled the process.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:11 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Brexit party had no manifesto and has no policies unless you call "crashing out of the EU" a policy. Or could you point us in the right direction of the policies of the Brexitparty or even a manifesto?

&
scbriml wrote:

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.


I find this all very odd, why would the Brexit party require a manifesto for long term intentions in the EU parliament when we were not supposed to be voting in it in the first place and secondly they should be gone after the 31st October. There are a lot of people like myself who saw voting at the EU elections as a protest vote on how government has bungled the process.



No point in doing so, you just enlarged the ego of mr Farage.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The Brexit party had no manifesto and has no policies unless you call "crashing out of the EU" a policy. Or could you point us in the right direction of the policies of the Brexitparty or even a manifesto?

&
scbriml wrote:

It just shows you how desperate the Brexiteers have become when they vote en masse for a party with no manifesto and no policies.


I find this all very odd, why would the Brexit party require a manifesto for long term intentions in the EU parliament when we were not supposed to be voting in it in the first place and secondly they should be gone after the 31st October. There are a lot of people like myself who saw voting at the EU elections as a protest vote on how government has bungled the process.



No point in doing so, you just enlarged the ego of mr Farage.



And that really is a problem in the greater scheme of things?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 7:57 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
&


I find this all very odd, why would the Brexit party require a manifesto for long term intentions in the EU parliament when we were not supposed to be voting in it in the first place and secondly they should be gone after the 31st October. There are a lot of people like myself who saw voting at the EU elections as a protest vote on how government has bungled the process.



No point in doing so, you just enlarged the ego of mr Farage.



And that really is a problem in the greater scheme of things?


No, but it is kind of funny, or sad actually, that you are proud of that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 8:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


No point in doing so, you just enlarged the ego of mr Farage.



And that really is a problem in the greater scheme of things?


No, but it is kind of funny, or sad actually, that you are proud of that.


Proud of that I voted along my own convictions, yes I am.

But I know you are talking about the “ego” thing which is your thought not mine, so don’t claim to say what I’m proud of when all you talk is hearsay.
 
Bostrom
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 8:48 pm

The Swedish votes are almost counted, and the biggest losers are the Feminists that went from 5.5% to 0.77%.

Results:
Moderate party (EPP): 16,87% (13,69%), 4 MEPs (+1)
Christian Democrats (EPP): 8,62% (5,95%), 2 MEPs (+1)
Centre party (ALDE): 10,80% (6,47%), 2 MEPs (+1)
Liberals (ALDE): 4,13% (9,96%), 1 MEPs (-1)
Social democrats (S&D): 23,45% (24,20%), 5 MEPs (±0)
Left party (GUE/NGL): 6,78% (6,30%), 1 MEPs (±0)
Green party (Greens/EFA): 11,50% (15,38%), 2 MEPs (-2)
Sweden democrats (ECR): 15,37% (9,67%), 3 MEPs (+1)
Feminists (S&D): 0,77% (5,44%), no MEPs (-1)

In case of Brexit Sweden will get an extra seat in the parliament, and it seems like that one will go to the Green party.
 
Bostrom
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 9:00 pm

The Finnish seats:

Coalition party (EPP): 3 MEPs
True Finns (ECR): 2 MEPs
Green Legue (Greens/EFA): 2 MEPs
Social democrats (S&D): 2 MEPs
Centre party (ALDE): 2 MEPs
Left party (GUE/NGL): 1 MEP
Swedish People's party (ALDE): 1 MEP
 
aviationaware
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Re: EU elections

Thu May 30, 2019 9:50 pm

Aesma wrote:
What I find ironic about the rise of populist right parties in the EU, and them talking about bandying together to change the EU (especially before the election, not so much now), is that it doesn't make sense. They want to do what's best for their own country, regardless of the consequences to others.


The notion that because you oppose the EU as it's currently run you can't have a say in it is so laughable it hurts.
 
JJJ
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Re: EU elections

Fri May 31, 2019 6:45 am

aviationaware wrote:
Aesma wrote:
What I find ironic about the rise of populist right parties in the EU, and them talking about bandying together to change the EU (especially before the election, not so much now), is that it doesn't make sense. They want to do what's best for their own country, regardless of the consequences to others.


The notion that because you oppose the EU as it's currently run you can't have a say in it is so laughable it hurts.


Reading comprehension? He's Aesma is talking about parties with wildly differing aims trying to come together on a single issue.

How you get from there to "they shouldn't run" is baffling.
 
Olddog
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Re: EU elections

Fri May 31, 2019 7:48 am

The irony is that theses anti UE MEP are not doing their job in Brussels. You should have look at the participation of Farage and the likes. It is abysmal.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Fri May 31, 2019 11:42 am

Olddog wrote:
The irony is that theses anti UE MEP are not doing their job in Brussels. You should have look at the participation of Farage and the likes. It is abysmal.


The irony is that this lot has no job to do in Brussels. What they want isn't decided in Brussels, but in London. Just wasted money, accidentally, this is something they seem to be against, yet they are happy to take all the benefits out of being a MEP and do nothing in return. This perfectly sums up what I think of these Brexitremist.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Reinhardt
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Re: EU elections

Fri May 31, 2019 1:49 pm

Olddog wrote:
The irony is that theses anti UE MEP are not doing their job in Brussels. You should have look at the participation of Farage and the likes. It is abysmal.


Particularly in regard to EU wide topics that were effectively weaponised during the referendum. For Farage that is fishing. He attended one of 42 fisheries meetings, and said it would be a waste of time to go, because he blames the reduction in UK fishing fleets on the EU. Despite the fact UK quotas were sold by UK fleets to EU companies, which no other EU country does. So what he should have done is blamed it on the UK Govenment (like the majority of the problems Brexiteers blame on the EU, are actually the fault of UK Govt). Then there is the percentage of UK catch that is actually consumed in the UK.

I look forward to seeing his Brexit Company's (not party) manifesto for UK Parliament. Lets see if it includes his favored views on the NHS, hand guns, and fishing. Then lets see if his 22% rating stays at 22%.
 
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Aesma
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Re: EU elections

Fri May 31, 2019 3:01 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Aesma wrote:
What I find ironic about the rise of populist right parties in the EU, and them talking about bandying together to change the EU (especially before the election, not so much now), is that it doesn't make sense. They want to do what's best for their own country, regardless of the consequences to others.


The notion that because you oppose the EU as it's currently run you can't have a say in it is so laughable it hurts.


The EU is a representative democracy. Every opinion can be heard, then there is a vote, and the majority wins. Since there is no first by the post nonsense, you need to convince other groups/MEPs to vote like you to get a majority. Eurosceptics can't manage to convince other eurosceptics, that's all I'm saying.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
aviationaware
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Re: EU elections

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:26 am

Aesma wrote:

The EU is a representative democracy. Every opinion can be heard, then there is a vote, and the majority wins. Since there is no first by the post nonsense, you need to convince other groups/MEPs to vote like you to get a majority. Eurosceptics can't manage to convince other eurosceptics, that's all I'm saying.


Okay, fair enough and true.

But don't believe for a minute that the EU is a democratic organization. The EU has a terrible track record for democratic decisions. When the result displeases the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, their power recipe for success is to just repeat the vote. They did that in several instances already, notably with the Irish for the disastrous Lisbon Treaty. Of course they wanted to apply the same tactic of deceit in the Brexit issue and tried hard to have a repeat referendum. In Italy, they even imposed a technocrat government (headed by one of their own of course) because they were unhappy with how the country was run.

The EU is antidemocratic to its bone.
 
Olddog
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Re: EU elections

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:43 am

Seriously? Less democratic than the US where the popular vote loser is elected as potus ?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:28 am

aviationaware wrote:
Aesma wrote:

The EU is a representative democracy. Every opinion can be heard, then there is a vote, and the majority wins. Since there is no first by the post nonsense, you need to convince other groups/MEPs to vote like you to get a majority. Eurosceptics can't manage to convince other eurosceptics, that's all I'm saying.


Okay, fair enough and true.

But don't believe for a minute that the EU is a democratic organization. The EU has a terrible track record for democratic decisions. When the result displeases the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, their power recipe for success is to just repeat the vote. They did that in several instances already, notably with the Irish for the disastrous Lisbon Treaty. Of course they wanted to apply the same tactic of deceit in the Brexit issue and tried hard to have a repeat referendum. In Italy, they even imposed a technocrat government (headed by one of their own of course) because they were unhappy with how the country was run.

The EU is antidemocratic to its bone.


We though we knew you know nothing about the EU and its inner workings, but why post here and remove all doubt?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: EU elections

Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:29 am

Olddog wrote:
Seriously? Less democratic than the US where the popular vote loser is elected as potus ?


Not a fan of whataboutism, but this might be the exception to the rule :rotfl: :rotfl:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
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