Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Wed May 08, 2019 4:59 pm

afcjets wrote:
Magog wrote:
I'm all for seeing Trump's tax records, but I'm confused as to why it's being portrayed as new or surprising that he endured major financial turmoil in the late 80s / early 90s. Everyone has known this forever. The New York newspapers covered it breathlessly at the time. Trump wrote a book about the turmoil (The Art of the Comeback) and incorporated it into his public image. In the first episode of The Apprentice, Trump said: "About 13 years ago, I was seriously in trouble. I was billions of dollars in debt." So... yeah. None of this was really hidden


Because he was probably behind the leak. This way Congress doesn’t win if they are successful getting his tax returns and if he paid any tax it’s an improvement and if continued not to pay any it’s nothing new. He already said during his campaign his goal as a businessman is to pay as little tax as possible, and most smart business men do exactly that.


He also told us that if he were elected, he would release his tax returns. Of course, he now says he is under audit and has been for the past 2+ years. I know lying is nothing new and cheering his lies is nothing new, either. His current returns matter so we can see how much Russia paid to install this puppet.

This still proves he knows nothing about business other than he can screw over others and make them believe they are getting something in return.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11886
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Wed May 08, 2019 5:04 pm

afcjets wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
afcjets wrote:

What did I miss? Robert Crandall ran a business just like Trump did.

And just what do you think the stock market is made of? You really think businesses that perform below average are getting more capital via IPOs? If you have never heard of Bob Crandall and are on a.net that really isn’t surprising you think that.


You missed that Robert Crandallwas an employee and not business owner. If you play with your own company it is a totally different thing than playing with someone else (stockholders) money. If you can't understand that, then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. I have a great respect for Richard Branson, Stelios Haji-Ioannou, Martin Schröder and others.

As for an IPO, you just spectacularly missed the point, but not quite as surprising as you would thing since you don't seem to understand what it actually is to build your own company. (Yes I can do the passive aggressive thing as well)


Robert Crandall was also a shareholder and Chairman of the Board of AMR Corp in addition to being the CEO and Trump was also likely an employee of his company. The point you missed is the industry matters, some people are interested in real estate just like some people are interested in aviation. Richard Branson may have made more money in the tech industry but he is a pilot and wanted to get in the airline business. Virgin Atlantic lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars from 2010 to 2013, so I guess you feel he has no business being in business at all.


What ever man, you bore me. You don't want to understand. Good luck to you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 5:08 pm

None of this is new information folks. We knew that Trump had a billion dollars in losses when the times released Trump's 1040 form from 1995 during the 2016 campaign. On that form it clearly showed he carried over a $915.7 million dollar loss. Thinking this will change anything, or that this wasn't already known to those who voted for him, is kind of silly.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10709
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 6:09 pm

afcjets wrote:
Magog wrote:
I'm not a mathematician, but don't about half of the companies on the stock exchange perform worse than the average - at least as far as their stock performance is concerned?


Yes, which is exactly the point I was making in post 43

Ummm, I think you are both confusing "statistical average" with the word "average" that is used for these indices.

Also I will point out that an increasing average means that what was "average" last week is now different and that if you took the data set for the average this week and applied to last week, more than half would be "above average" (that's why the average increases).

This is super-simplistic, values rise and fall, weekly, daily, etc. over time, but historically the stock market has risen in value over time (Duh). And don't forget that failing companies are removed from the average. A stock exchange average is not as simply treated as a statistical average that most people think of.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15269
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 6:17 pm

Part of Trump's business failures are connected with the swings in the economy and the real estate markets as well saturation of the casino market in Atlantic City, NJ.

The real estate markets, along with the stock market with a major drop in 1987-88 when some of Trump's first big investment write offs occurred. There was the shifts in the airline markets and he got caught making foolish and fat handed stock dealings. As to the Casino investments which led to his greatest losses in the early 1990's, he mainly invested in Atlantic City, NJ, a market where when he entered the business, too many casino already existed and along with the continuing late 1980's-early 1990's recession limiting business, the growth of other locations for casinos in the USA (including those on Indian reservations, corporate ones in Las Vegas), poor management, invested too much, it almost ruined him. If not for his abuse of the Bankruptcy laws, he would be a relative pauper.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11886
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 6:31 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Part of Trump's business failures are connected with the swings in the economy and the real estate markets as well saturation of the casino market in Atlantic City, NJ.

The real estate markets, along with the stock market with a major drop in 1987-88 when some of Trump's first big investment write offs occurred. There was the shifts in the airline markets and he got caught making foolish and fat handed stock dealings. As to the Casino investments which led to his greatest losses in the early 1990's, he mainly invested in Atlantic City, NJ, a market where when he entered the business, too many casino already existed and along with the continuing late 1980's-early 1990's recession limiting business, the growth of other locations for casinos in the USA (including those on Indian reservations, corporate ones in Las Vegas), poor management, invested too much, it almost ruined him. If not for his abuse of the Bankruptcy laws, he would be a relative pauper.


Entering a market which is saturated is a bad business decision, is it not? He has many on his name: remember Trump mortgage, launched in 2006, the year before the mortgage crisis that led to the biggest financial crisis?

An entrepreneur can't win them all, project / company failures are part of the deal, but this seems to be an occurring thing with Trump.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13554
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Wed May 08, 2019 10:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
Remember by the way, when he needed funding, the Russians gave it to him.


Care to prove that?
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11886
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Wed May 08, 2019 10:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Remember by the way, when he needed funding, the Russians gave it to him.


Care to prove that?


Source: Donald Trump jr, are you saying he is lying?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 10:18 pm

even though it is old news as noted thats a lot of money to lose over a 10 year period. but it also needs more context. was it only a depreciation loss or an operating loss. dont have to pay income taxes if you dont have any income. and i am sure there were plenty of taxes paid out other than just income tax. does anyone have a hard count on how many businesses he has had that have failed?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Wed May 08, 2019 10:58 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Remember by the way, when he needed funding, the Russians gave it to him.


Care to prove that?


The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Wed May 08, 2019 11:52 pm

hashtagconfused wrote:
even though it is old news as noted thats a lot of money to lose over a 10 year period. but it also needs more context. was it only a depreciation loss or an operating loss. dont have to pay income taxes if you dont have any income. and i am sure there were plenty of taxes paid out other than just income tax. does anyone have a hard count on how many businesses he has had that have failed?


To lose money in a start-up is to be expected. Some wide-eyed dreamer goes out and starts a company with nothing but the clothes on his back will lose money the first few years. That is not the case here. This is family money. He never had to work a day in his life. And he still lost a boat load of money. Depreciation can be off set and would be accounted for. If you are good at business.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13554
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 12:03 am

casinterest wrote:

The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?


I would but you haven't offered anything but more talking points and media catch phrases.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12468
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 12:16 am

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?


I would but you haven't offered anything but more talking points and media catch phrases.


Couldn’t be any more clear here:

https://amp.ft.com/content/157a64a6-849 ... 565ec55929
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 1:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?


I would but you haven't offered anything but more talking points and media catch phrases.


Couldn’t be any more clear here:

https://amp.ft.com/content/157a64a6-849 ... 565ec55929


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/ho ... -business/

He also admitted to defrauding the federal government in the 1980s

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... stigation/

https://lieu.house.gov/media-center/in- ... nvestigate
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 14194
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 1:18 am

seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I would but you haven't offered anything but more talking points and media catch phrases.


Couldn’t be any more clear here:

https://amp.ft.com/content/157a64a6-849 ... 565ec55929


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/ho ... -business/

He also admitted to defrauding the federal government in the 1980s

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues ... stigation/

https://lieu.house.gov/media-center/in- ... nvestigate



The man belongs in jail. As has been said, if he was not the President, he would be on his way there.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 1:29 am

seb146 wrote:
To lose money in a start-up is to be expected. Some wide-eyed dreamer goes out and starts a company with nothing but the clothes on his back will lose money the first few years. That is not the case here. This is family money. He never had to work a day in his life. And he still lost a boat load of money. Depreciation can be off set and would be accounted for. If you are good at business.


depreciation offsets your income to lessen your tax burden. like i said that is a large amount of money to lose over a 10 year period but more context is needed. if he had 5 billion dollars of real estate that he was depreciating that works out to about 125 million a year loss right there.
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 1:36 am

seb146 wrote:


certainly looks like he got away with some shady moves
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 2:53 am

hashtagconfused wrote:
seb146 wrote:
To lose money in a start-up is to be expected. Some wide-eyed dreamer goes out and starts a company with nothing but the clothes on his back will lose money the first few years. That is not the case here. This is family money. He never had to work a day in his life. And he still lost a boat load of money. Depreciation can be off set and would be accounted for. If you are good at business.


depreciation offsets your income to lessen your tax burden. like i said that is a large amount of money to lose over a 10 year period but more context is needed. if he had 5 billion dollars of real estate that he was depreciating that works out to about 125 million a year loss right there.


Depreciation works for things like cars, machines, airplanes, refrigerators. Not real estate. But, when someone is simply bliking the government "for sport" (his words) I would expect nothing less.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 3:20 am

seb146 wrote:

Depreciation works for things like cars, machines, airplanes, refrigerators. Not real estate. But, when someone is simply bliking the government "for sport" (his words) I would expect nothing less.


real estate (the building value not the land value) can be depreciated
 
BN747
Posts: 7898
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 3:24 am

Don't forget his buying the profitable Eastern Airlines Shuttle....and driving it straight into the Hudson.

Mad skills that fool.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 4:08 am

hashtagconfused wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Depreciation works for things like cars, machines, airplanes, refrigerators. Not real estate. But, when someone is simply bliking the government "for sport" (his words) I would expect nothing less.


real estate (the building value not the land value) can be depreciated


So you are okay with over valuating and over depreciating to game the system and commit fraud? Good to know.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 4:12 am

seb146 wrote:

So you are okay with over valuating and over depreciating to game the system and commit fraud? Good to know.


where did i say that? i only pointed out that real estate can be depreciated
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4346
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 7:15 am

Dutchy wrote:
Entering a market which is saturated is a bad business decision, is it not? He has many on his name: remember Trump mortgage, launched in 2006, the year before the mortgage crisis that led to the biggest financial crisis?

An entrepreneur can't win them all, project / company failures are part of the deal, but this seems to be an occurring thing with Trump.


Another example:

The largest casino in Atlantic City, pre-trump, was 60,000 square feet. Never, in the history of that casino, was it ever filled to capacity. Trump built a 120,000 square foot casino nearby, and financed it with high interest loans.


Sounds like a very smart businessman to me. :roll:

NIKV69 wrote:
Care to prove that?


Sure.
Eric Trump allegedly revealed in a 2014 interview that Russia funded the family's golf resorts "all the time".

Mr Dodson said he had asked the now-President how he had secured funding for the courses, and Mr Trump “sort of tossed off that he had access to $100 million”.

The journalist then followed up with Eric Trump, who was also on the resort that day, during a ride in a golf cart.

“I said, 'Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.'” the writer said.

“And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programmes. We just go there all the time.’”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 22806.html


casinterest wrote:
The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?


It's stupid; he'll respond saying that it was puffery, but will still expect you to take Trump's word seriously.
First to fly the 787-9
 
bennett123
Posts: 9794
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 7:29 am

If these losses are down to Depreciation, then does that mean they were initially massively overstated.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 9:33 am

bennett123 wrote:
If these losses are down to Depreciation, then does that mean they were initially massively overstated.

My understanding is that there are schedules published by the IRS. So, no, it does not mean that they were “massively overstated.”
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 12:57 pm

Democrats are being played like a fiddle right now. You guys don't even realize it.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Thu May 09, 2019 1:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The Trump Organization by way of his sons. Care to refute it?


I would but you haven't offered anything but more talking points and media catch phrases.


That internet search must have highlighted how wrong you were since you have posted nothing .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 1:26 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Democrats are being played like a fiddle right now. You guys don't even realize it.


More jokes from the republicans that laugh at shooting migrants. The only fiddle is Nero's as Trump burns the GOP reputation to ashes.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22627
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 2:43 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Democrats are being played like a fiddle right now. You guys don't even realize it.


How so? Using his own history and facts to show how much of a fraud, cheat, and con artist he is?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10709
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 8:50 pm

All good! :bigthumbsup:

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 10:24 pm

I see the problem. You don’t understand how depreciation works. You depreciate using tables that are published by the IRS. If you have a problem with the rate at which 110 depreciate, your issue was with the IRS and not with Trump.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10709
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Thu May 09, 2019 11:49 pm

If anyone is interested, the IRS depreciation information:
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc704
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 1:09 pm

OK, I am now a 100% sure he is insane, he just tweeted:

Talks with China continue in a very congenial manner - there is absolutely no need to rush - as Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S. The process has begun to place additional Tariffs at 25% on the remaining 325 Billion Dollars. The U.S. only sells China approximately 100 Billion Dollars of goods & products, a very big imbalance. With the over 100 Billion Dollars in Tariffs that we take in, we will buy agricultural products from our Great Farmers, in larger amounts than China ever did, and ship it to poor & starving countries in the form of humanitarian assistance. In the meantime we will continue to negotiate with China in the hopes that they do not again try to redo deal! Tariffs will bring in FAR MORE wealth to our Country than even a phenomenal deal of the traditional kind. Also, much easier & quicker to do. Our Farmers will do better, faster, and starving nations can now be helped. Waivers on some products will be granted, or go to new source! If we bought 15 Billion Dollars of Agriculture from our Farmers, far more than China buys now, we would have more than 85 Billion Dollars left over for new Infrastructure, Healthcare, or anything else. China would greatly slow down, and we would automatically speed up!
Your all time favorite President got tired of waiting for China to help out and start buying from our FARMERS, the greatest anywhere in the World!

These are thoughts of a 9 year old. Is there nobody there explain him the easiest things? He has bancrupt casinos, he will bancrupt a country.
 
Redd
Posts: 1293
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 1:33 pm

So Trump is either incompetent, or a criminal cheating the system, or more likely both.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 2:13 pm

So now we have welfare for farmers, the American consumers will face infaltionary prices, and the economy will slow down , with tax revenues plummeting and the debt rising. Seems like the worst US president ever has officially started the decline of the economy with these tariffs.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
A3801000
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 2:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
So now we have welfare for farmers, the American consumers will face infaltionary prices, and the economy will slow down , with tax revenues plummeting and the debt rising. Seems like the worst US president ever has officially started the decline of the economy with these tariffs.


Well, luckily he still has the Chinese, for the moment, to borrow him money to give to the farmers who are hit by his tariffs. :rotfl:
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12468
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 2:43 pm

A3801000 wrote:
OK, I am now a 100% sure he is insane, he just tweeted:

Talks with China continue in a very congenial manner - there is absolutely no need to rush - as Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S. The process has begun to place additional Tariffs at 25% on the remaining 325 Billion Dollars. The U.S. only sells China approximately 100 Billion Dollars of goods & products, a very big imbalance. With the over 100 Billion Dollars in Tariffs that we take in, we will buy agricultural products from our Great Farmers, in larger amounts than China ever did, and ship it to poor & starving countries in the form of humanitarian assistance. In the meantime we will continue to negotiate with China in the hopes that they do not again try to redo deal! Tariffs will bring in FAR MORE wealth to our Country than even a phenomenal deal of the traditional kind. Also, much easier & quicker to do. Our Farmers will do better, faster, and starving nations can now be helped. Waivers on some products will be granted, or go to new source! If we bought 15 Billion Dollars of Agriculture from our Farmers, far more than China buys now, we would have more than 85 Billion Dollars left over for new Infrastructure, Healthcare, or anything else. China would greatly slow down, and we would automatically speed up!
Your all time favorite President got tired of waiting for China to help out and start buying from our FARMERS, the greatest anywhere in the World!

These are thoughts of a 9 year old. Is there nobody there explain him the easiest things? He has bancrupt casinos, he will bancrupt a country.


Funny how he never mentions that they hold $1.15T in T-bills. That's also a not-so insignificant point of leverage - not to mention a massive consumer market a lot of US companies still very much want access to for years to come.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 3:07 pm

A3801000 wrote:
OK, I am now a 100% sure he is insane, he just tweeted:

Talks with China continue in a very congenial manner - there is absolutely no need to rush - as Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S. The process has begun to place additional Tariffs at 25% on the remaining 325 Billion Dollars. The U.S. only sells China approximately 100 Billion Dollars of goods & products, a very big imbalance. With the over 100 Billion Dollars in Tariffs that we take in, we will buy agricultural products from our Great Farmers, in larger amounts than China ever did, and ship it to poor & starving countries in the form of humanitarian assistance. In the meantime we will continue to negotiate with China in the hopes that they do not again try to redo deal! Tariffs will bring in FAR MORE wealth to our Country than even a phenomenal deal of the traditional kind. Also, much easier & quicker to do. Our Farmers will do better, faster, and starving nations can now be helped. Waivers on some products will be granted, or go to new source! If we bought 15 Billion Dollars of Agriculture from our Farmers, far more than China buys now, we would have more than 85 Billion Dollars left over for new Infrastructure, Healthcare, or anything else. China would greatly slow down, and we would automatically speed up!
Your all time favorite President got tired of waiting for China to help out and start buying from our FARMERS, the greatest anywhere in the World!

These are thoughts of a 9 year old. Is there nobody there explain him the easiest things? He has bancrupt casinos, he will bancrupt a country.


I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or slam my table...

Seriously, tariff are paid by Americans importing Chinese goods, not China exporting Chinese goods. So basically it's bringing in wealth to US by spending American dollar, just to bail out the farmers (and how so? Forcing Americans to buy American agricultural product? That's Socialism...).

Yep, the largest tax increase ever on Americans, and Trumptards are still singing kumbaya. But hey, he can always file bankruptcy when things go wrong.

BTW, DJIA down about 300 as of this post, and down about 1000 for the week. Just 3-4%, nothing to worry about I guess?
 
winginit
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 3:31 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
OK, I am now a 100% sure he is insane, he just tweeted:

Talks with China continue in a very congenial manner - there is absolutely no need to rush - as Tariffs are NOW being paid to the United States by China of 25% on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods & products. These massive payments go directly to the Treasury of the U.S. The process has begun to place additional Tariffs at 25% on the remaining 325 Billion Dollars. The U.S. only sells China approximately 100 Billion Dollars of goods & products, a very big imbalance. With the over 100 Billion Dollars in Tariffs that we take in, we will buy agricultural products from our Great Farmers, in larger amounts than China ever did, and ship it to poor & starving countries in the form of humanitarian assistance. In the meantime we will continue to negotiate with China in the hopes that they do not again try to redo deal! Tariffs will bring in FAR MORE wealth to our Country than even a phenomenal deal of the traditional kind. Also, much easier & quicker to do. Our Farmers will do better, faster, and starving nations can now be helped. Waivers on some products will be granted, or go to new source! If we bought 15 Billion Dollars of Agriculture from our Farmers, far more than China buys now, we would have more than 85 Billion Dollars left over for new Infrastructure, Healthcare, or anything else. China would greatly slow down, and we would automatically speed up!
Your all time favorite President got tired of waiting for China to help out and start buying from our FARMERS, the greatest anywhere in the World!

These are thoughts of a 9 year old. Is there nobody there explain him the easiest things? He has bancrupt casinos, he will bancrupt a country.


I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or slam my table...

Seriously, tariff are paid by Americans importing Chinese goods, not China exporting Chinese goods. So basically it's bringing in wealth to US by spending American dollar, just to bail out the farmers (and how so? Forcing Americans to buy American agricultural product? That's Socialism...).

Yep, the largest tax increase ever on Americans, and Trumptards are still singing kumbaya. But hey, he can always file bankruptcy when things go wrong.

BTW, DJIA down about 300 as of this post, and down about 1000 for the week. Just 3-4%, nothing to worry about I guess?


It's absolutely staggering that the President of the United States continues to double down on a false perception of tariffs that a high-schooler could debunk. Like you said, these tariffs are almost by definition a massive tax increase on American consumers that are at the same time devastating large swaths of U.S. farmers who are needing to be bailed out by tax-payer fueled subsidies.

After giving up on trying to explain the above to Trump, Gary Cohn came out and said that Trump had the IQ of an inbred tanning bed.
 
hashtagconfused
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 3:40 pm

the long term effects remain to be seen but they do not appear to be having a positive impact yet. prices are going up as the tariffs are being passed on to consumers. and the shift of production to the US also does not seem to be happening at any frenzied rate. which could be because businesses are hesitant to invest in production facilities only to have a trade deal reached that would still keep competitive production in china. too much uncertainty right now. we need to be able to find a way to be competitive with our production not only for local consumption but also be competitive on a global level.

and trump needs to get off twitter.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 10709
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 3:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Funny how he never mentions that they hold $1.15T in T-bills. That's also a not-so insignificant point of leverage - not to mention a massive consumer market a lot of US companies still very much want access to for years to come.

Excluding the last part of your comment but actually the Chinese holdings of T-bills is really nothing for leverage. Let them dump them. They have been working to sell out from under them for the past few years. There are plenty of others out there to buy them.

The real T-bill debt is to the USA citizens who hold the vast majority of the debt (whether directly or in their saving and retirement and investments etc.)

winginit wrote:
Seriously, tariff are paid by Americans importing Chinese goods, not China exporting Chinese goods. So basically it's bringing in wealth to US by spending American dollar, just to bail out the farmers (and how so? Forcing Americans to buy American agricultural product? That's Socialism...).

Yep, the largest tax increase ever on Americans, and Trumptards are still singing kumbaya. But hey, he can always file bankruptcy when things go wrong.

Yes, it is definitely a fee/tax that is passed on to and paid by the US consumer. However over time, if allowed to continue, it will impact the Chinese manufactures as higher prices will change the consumer buying habits.

I must admit that I am annoyed at how much crap with a low price we buy (and it is often so low that "use once then throw away makes sense and our landfills fill up with even more trash). I do it myself, my goal is to not buy as much "china" and to diversify the base of nations where products I buy are made. But all to often the China made items are that much lower. I don't mind paying a higher cost, forcing a higher price, to actually change purchasing habits. I think China is very much a pricing predator.

And I am by no means a fan of Trump, he is and continues to be a poor president, but even a busted clock is right twice a day...

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 3:56 pm

hashtagconfused wrote:
the long term effects remain to be seen but they do not appear to be having a positive impact yet. prices are going up as the tariffs are being passed on to consumers. and the shift of production to the US also does not seem to be happening at any frenzied rate. which could be because businesses are hesitant to invest in production facilities only to have a trade deal reached that would still keep competitive production in china. too much uncertainty right now. we need to be able to find a way to be competitive with our production not only for local consumption but also be competitive on a global level.

and trump needs to get off twitter.


The thing is, long-term production maybe moving away from China (which had been going on somewhat actually), but they just go to places like Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh, or even African nations like Ethiopia or Kenya; Oh, I forgot to mention that Chinese investors are the one that are opening those factories.

Sure, there are new manufacturing plants in US here and there, but many of those would happen regardless of the tariff anyway.

EDIT:
Tugger wrote:
I must admit that I am annoyed at how much crap with a low price we buy (and it is often so low that "use once then throw away makes sense and our landfills fill up with even more trash). I do it myself, my goal is to not buy as much "china" and to diversify the base of nations where products I buy are made. But all to often the China made items are that much lower. I don't mind paying a higher cost, forcing a higher price, to actually change purchasing habits. I think China is very much a pricing predator.


But even if you "diversify" the base, then what? If it's not China it's Vietnam, it's Philippines, it's Bangladesh.

By all means, the tariff certainly will hurt Chinese economy. But the larger question is, does it help American economy one bit? That's a no. It's another giant Trump myth anyway - so what if stuff are not made in China? It still won't be made in US, either.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 4:02 pm

Tugger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Funny how he never mentions that they hold $1.15T in T-bills. That's also a not-so insignificant point of leverage - not to mention a massive consumer market a lot of US companies still very much want access to for years to come.

Excluding the last part of your comment but actually the Chinese holdings of T-bills is really nothing for leverage. Let them dump them. They have been working to sell out from under them for the past few years. There are plenty of others out there to buy them.

The real T-bill debt is to the USA citizens who hold the vast majority of the debt (whether directly or in their saving and retirement and investments etc.)

winginit wrote:
Seriously, tariff are paid by Americans importing Chinese goods, not China exporting Chinese goods. So basically it's bringing in wealth to US by spending American dollar, just to bail out the farmers (and how so? Forcing Americans to buy American agricultural product? That's Socialism...).

Yep, the largest tax increase ever on Americans, and Trumptards are still singing kumbaya. But hey, he can always file bankruptcy when things go wrong.

Yes, it is definitely a fee/tax that is passed on to and paid by the US consumer. However over time, if allowed to continue, it will impact the Chinese manufactures as higher prices will change the consumer buying habits.

I must admit that I am annoyed at how much crap with a low price we buy (and it is often so low that "use once then throw away makes sense and our landfills fill up with even more trash). I do it myself, my goal is to not buy as much "china" and to diversify the base of nations where products I buy are made. But all to often the China made items are that much lower. I don't mind paying a higher cost, forcing a higher price, to actually change purchasing habits. I think China is very much a pricing predator.

And I am by no means a fan of Trump, he is and continues to be a poor president, but even a busted clock is right twice a day...

Tugg



The problem is that these tariffs create an artificial barrier. China will just find new markets, and the US manufacturers will just find the next low cost center to migrate to. Manufacturing jobs are not going to stay in the US. Not with the dollar so high. Sure a lot of it winds up being crap, but the speed we purchase that crap is what keeps the economy humming. If for a temporary time we hold a few more jobs, so be it, but when a trade deal is reached, or a new manufacturing location is chosen, the jobs will disappear. Even without lower labor, the jobs will increasingly go to machines. Trump's tariffs and his subsidies to the farmers will wind up costing real land use, and sales. The opportunity costs will be infrastructure, healthcare, education and a host of other better uses. Our own economy may stall out as people put off purchasing new cars, upgrading phones, computers,. or upgrading homes because materials are too expensive.

Now on the flip side China may be weened off their artificial lock on the dollar, but is that good for the US? , we may lose our financial markets and oil purchasing power. Boeing may lose out to Airbus and Chines aircraft manufacturers. There are a lot of issues ahead.

Make no mistake, Trump is pandering as hard as he can to the middle class factory workers, and midwest farmers that helped get him elected, but will it alienate the business owners that can't guarantee and forecast costs in the future?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 4:35 pm

Tariffs are fine for short term strategic use. Long term tariffs, as others have said, are just a tax on the American consumer.
 
User avatar
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3892
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

Re: trumps losses in business.

Fri May 10, 2019 5:19 pm

Tugger wrote:
This is really more an issue with the US tax structure (and likely global as well).

You can dislike him (I sure do, he is a poor president) but for business and taxes, showing losses on paper in one way to adjust the tax burden. And anyone should want to pay as little in taxes as they can. Bloomberg has had a series of articles recently on this, this is a recent one: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eal-estate

Property taxes and property ownership is one of the most used tools for reducing taxes owed while maintaining or increasing wealth.

The tax system needs to be adjusted for such things like this, but taxes legislated by and the rules written by people who are in general wealthy and benefit from such rules so it will be difficult to change.

Wealthy people are not actually harmed by taxes (and here is where the hordes of "conservatives", or anti-taxers/anti "big gubment-ers", or "I wanna be rich someday and don't wanna be taxed to death", or less than wealthy people who really don't understand will jump in a flame me). They just plan for it and manage their wealth and income to minimize it and continue to live a pretty damned good life.

(Of course there is that other segment of the population that is equally clueless and think that just because a few billionaires can donate hundreds of millions to some single, one time cause, that they can pay for everything they wish for endlessly, forever...).

Wealth is great to have, just pay appropriate taxes.


Finally someone that gets it.

You pay your CPA (or accounting firm in his case) to reduce your tax liability. I invest in real estate too (though just residential) and there are plenty of ways to do this (depreciation etc.) and that's only for minimal holdings. I have month to month positive cash flow on all properties that I own (the rent far exceeds the mortgage/taxes/insurance/HOA etc.) but due to the tax code I end up paying basically nothing in taxes on that rental income.

Claiming a loss on real estate doesn't (necessarily) mean you are an incompetent real estate investor you could just know how to play the tax code correctly. Not a fan of Trump but this has nothing to do with it....
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
winginit
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Magog wrote:
Tariffs are fine for short term strategic use. Long term tariffs, as others have said, are just a tax on the American consumer.


Others have stated that yet our President either simply refuses to acknowledge that very basic reality or is too stupid to know how tariffs actually work as he implies over and over (most recently this morning) that Chinese money is filling the Treasury coffers. Additionally, in your mind where is the threshold between short term strategic and long term tariff?

Tugger wrote:
However over time, if allowed to continue, it will impact the Chinese manufactures as higher prices will change the consumer buying habits.


Is there any historical precedent for that latter outcome that you've stated? If the thought is that tariffs will genuinely change the habits of the American consumer from buying Chinese to buying American that's complete nonsense: they'll go from buying Chinese to buying Vietnamese or what have you.

If the implication is that in the long-term manufacturing jobs will return to the US as a result of these tariffs I think it's time to wake up and realize that in the long-term automation is going to claim essentially all of the manufacturing jobs - something that I don't think our President has ever even thought about as he sits and reminisces about how we used to build things in this country.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3522
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 6:44 pm

winginit wrote:
If the implication is that in the long-term manufacturing jobs will return to the US as a result of these tariffs I think it's time to wake up and realize that in the long-term automation is going to claim essentially all of the manufacturing jobs - something that I don't think our President has ever even thought about as he sits and reminisces about how we used to build things in this country.


And quite frankly, in long-run, you aim for high-end, high yield/margin, although not necessarily mass volume manufacturing. US is already there, China is trying to get there (The "low-end" i.e. textile had been moving away from China for awhile). High-end manufacturing is all about precision (aka tons of automation), very skilled labor (so no matter what, it won't be your old school "blue collar" people getting jobs, but rather, it's industrial engineers, skilled techs, programmers, etc.), etc.

But nope, let's go back to the old school coal/steel/whatever. Oh, did I mention that US is still the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world (by manufacturing output), and if you compute the per capita number, its manufacturing output per capita is like 2.5x that of PRC? Yes, the number is lower than Japan, Germany, or South Korea, but is also way higher than Italy or France or UK.

Oh well...getting way off topic now.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 6:51 pm

This is about Trump business losses, not china. Start another thread for that. If we're going to delete a bunch of relevant posts to the topic at hand, but not stay on topic then what are we doing here.

winginit wrote:
If the implication is that in the long-term manufacturing jobs will return to the US as a result of these tariffs I think it's time to wake up and realize that in the long-term automation is going to claim essentially all of the manufacturing jobs - something that I don't think our President has ever even thought about as he sits and reminisces about how we used to build things in this country.


Actually, in my experience, automation is bringing manufacturing back into the US away from countries we shipped things out to. I have direct knowledge of a product that's being brought back into the US because the automation has progressed to a level that the quality is higher than what we get out of mexico and the cost is about the same. It's kind of a conundrum actually. No matter how you slice it, automation is the future. And just like we adjusted when farming became largely mechanized we will have to adjust again as we automate many aspects of the manufacturing (and services) industry.

And crap, now I've gone off topic after b!tch!ng about it myself. Sigh.

Anyways. The topic is dead. Trump lost billions in the 1980s as he even admitted on his television show. Nothing new, move along folks, move along.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 11773
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 7:01 pm

Back to Topic.
The real questions out of this are .
1,. Who gave him loans after these losses, and what was their reasoning
2. Were all the personal losses real, or was there massive depreciation on overvalued personal assets?
3. Why did Trump never claim a massive windfall to make up for the losses?

This is real estate, and buy low , sell high will always occur, but i think a lot of massive overstatement of value was implied in the write downs, and I think quite a bit of it may have been illegal.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump's losses in business

Fri May 10, 2019 7:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
Back to Topic.
The real questions out of this are .
1,. Who gave him loans after these losses, and what was their reasoning
2. Were all the personal losses real, or was there massive depreciation on overvalued personal assets?
3. Why did Trump never claim a massive windfall to make up for the losses?

This is real estate, and buy low , sell high will always occur, but i think a lot of massive overstatement of value was implied in the write downs, and I think quite a bit of it may have been illegal.


Questions 1 and 2 are quite valid. I assume being under an IRS audit they would be well aware of these things. I'm not sure I follow question 3.

Your last assertion is your own opinion and has no basis in fact. With a team of lawyers and accountants working his stuff I would imagine they worked all the dark angles allowed by law - some perhaps murky and shady - but still legal. Regardless, the IRS would again take notice. I'm quite certain the IRS pays close attention when someone claims a billion dollars in losses and carries those forward for several years.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], pilotsmoe and 41 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos