Kiwirob
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 8:43 am

Which nations would support the US in this war, I doubt any in Europe even the UK would get involved, the Australians have no stake in this, Japan and South Korea, not a chance, I doubt Turkey would get involved, so who does that leave? I even have doubts KSA would join in, so it it would be the US and Israel at most.
 
VSMUT
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:52 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Which nations would support the US in this war, I doubt any in Europe even the UK would get involved, the Australians have no stake in this, Japan and South Korea, not a chance, I doubt Turkey would get involved, so who does that leave? I even have doubts KSA would join in, so it it would be the US and Israel at most.


The usual suspects. The Danish government will surely line up as always. Norway seems the have the same obsession. The UK is guaranteed. I would guess Poland and Ukraine too, maybe Hungary and Romania.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 12:26 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Which nations would support the US in this war, I doubt any in Europe even the UK would get involved, the Australians have no stake in this, Japan and South Korea, not a chance, I doubt Turkey would get involved, so who does that leave? I even have doubts KSA would join in, so it it would be the US and Israel at most.


The usual suspects. The Danish government will surely line up as always. Norway seems the have the same obsession. The UK is guaranteed. I would guess Poland and Ukraine too, maybe Hungary and Romania.


Unless there is a UN resolution I would be surprised if Norway would get directly involved in this.
 
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scbriml
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 1:57 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Unless there is a UN resolution I would be surprised if Norway would get directly involved in this.


I'd be amazed if Russia didn't veto any such UN resolution.
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kaitak
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 2:31 pm

Apart from the Saudis (and the Gulf acolytyes) and Israel, who else wants to see Iran destroyed. From what I am seeing, everything is being manufactured, i.e. the tension is being artificially driven. My big fear is that in the background, Mossad (in particular) and other Israeli govt agencies are working to create a situation which could be sold as justification for a military attack. Bolton and Pompeo would buy into this willingly; people believe what they want to believe. I cannot see any justification for a UN mandate against Iran; not just Russia, but other signatories to the Iran deal would veto such a motion. Why? Because they would see it for what it is.

If there were to be a military attack, it would be America on its own; they might win a war, but what exactly would they win? Failing to "win the peace" after the fall of Saddam, after the second Gulf War, would be a pinprick compared to what might follow the fall of the Iranian administration. True, Iran is going through difficult economic times and the regime is not popular, but that's only one level. The other, real, level is that a conflict is being concocted against their country by extremely belligerent outsiders. And even if the regime did fall as a result of an American attack, does the administration really believe that anything that might replace it might be any less hostile than the current regime?

The old saying "the one thing you learn from history is that people don't learn learn from history" is particularly apt here. How much did the Iraq war cost in the end? Did it reach $1trn? The damage to the US economy was huge. The damage from any similar battle would be even greater. It would do massive damage to America's standing in the world and it would isolate them; any democratic govt that stood with the US against Iran would face massive protests and probably being kicked out after its next election.

In summary, any war against Iran would be America's war (most likely at Israel's bequest - by any means necessary) and it would be for America to fight alone. And it would be an absolute tragedy when you consider that just two years ago, America and Iran were co- signatories to a deal which could have heralded the end of hostility between them.
 
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Aesma
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 2:59 pm

Who thinks the thread should be renamed ?

Maybe not the "USA threat", but at least something more neutral, pointing out the USA is doing all the sabre rattling ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:13 pm

Aesma wrote:
Who thinks the thread should be renamed ?

Maybe not the "USA threat", but at least something more neutral, pointing out the USA is doing all the sabre rattling ?

You don’t view Iran attacking oil tankers and a Saudi oil pipeline as sabre rattling? Interesting.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:33 pm

Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Who thinks the thread should be renamed ?

Maybe not the "USA threat", but at least something more neutral, pointing out the USA is doing all the sabre rattling ?

You don’t view Iran attacking oil tankers and a Saudi oil pipeline as sabre rattling? Interesting.


Source and evidence the attacks were done by IRGC..? In any case this requires the standard question: if Russian battle groups were massing near US ports and shipping lanes, what would our response be?

Perhaps sabre-rattling would be unnecessary if a. we let the gulf powers duke out their regional hegemonic stakes on their own or b. never set the stage for the ‘79 revolution in the first place
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Olddog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:36 pm

Until you can prove it, the threat is US/Saoudia made.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
drew777
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:37 pm

Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Who thinks the thread should be renamed ?

Maybe not the "USA threat", but at least something more neutral, pointing out the USA is doing all the sabre rattling ?

You don’t view Iran attacking oil tankers and a Saudi oil pipeline as sabre rattling? Interesting.


Sad to see Americans already taking the bait. Maybe Colin Powell can put some charts together for us. :banghead:
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Who thinks the thread should be renamed ?

Maybe not the "USA threat", but at least something more neutral, pointing out the USA is doing all the sabre rattling ?

You don’t view Iran attacking oil tankers and a Saudi oil pipeline as sabre rattling? Interesting.


Source and evidence the attacks were done by IRGC..?

a) United States intelligence
b) The Norwegian insurer

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SN1P7

Believing that Iran doesn’t sabre rattle is like believing that an alcoholic prefers water.
 
Olddog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:47 pm

The US intelligence is a joke. It will need real evidence after the Colin Powell show at the UN.....
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:51 pm

Olddog wrote:
Until you can prove it, the threat is US/Saoudia made.

It really doesn’t work that way.
 
Olddog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:52 pm

For people outside the US, yes.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:52 pm

Olddog wrote:
The US intelligence is a joke. It will need real evidence after the Colin Powell show at the UN.....

How convenient that you just ignored the independent assessment by a Norwegian insurance company. Confirmation bias will do that to a person.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:53 pm

IIRC, someone said Obama wanted war to guarantee a second term for him. Three guesses as to who that was and the first two don't count.
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Olddog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:54 pm

Seriously, you think we will go to war according to an insurance company report ? You know that other countries have also intellingence on the ground in that area ?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 3:56 pm

Magog wrote:
Olddog wrote:
The US intelligence is a joke. It will need real evidence after the Colin Powell show at the UN.....

How convenient that you just ignored the independent assessment by a Norwegian insurance company. Confirmation bias will do that to a person.


You ignored the key question in my post regarding shipping lanes.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 4:06 pm

Olddog wrote:
Seriously, you think we will go to war according to an insurance company report ? You know that other countries have also intellingence on the ground in that area ?

I don’t think that we will go to war. Trump appears to be showing some restraint. I also don’t think that the Norwegian insurance carrier gives a rats ass about what the United States things. I am sure that they did their own independent assessment and that the result of that assessment was that they have evidence suggesting that Iran was behind the attacks. Why you would choose to ignore this is beyond me.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 4:13 pm

Magog wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Magog wrote:
You don’t view Iran attacking oil tankers and a Saudi oil pipeline as sabre rattling? Interesting.


Source and evidence the attacks were done by IRGC..?

a) United States intelligence
b) The Norwegian insurer

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SN1P7

Believing that Iran doesn’t sabre rattle is like believing that an alcoholic prefers water.




* No one trust US inteligence on it's own merit anymore. At least not in public opinion.

* The insurer report doesn't really conclude with certainty and the so called evidence could have easely been planted.

It could just as well be a false flag operation by the US and is allies in the region.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 4:40 pm

Mortyman wrote:
Magog wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Source and evidence the attacks were done by IRGC..?

a) United States intelligence
b) The Norwegian insurer

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SN1P7

Believing that Iran doesn’t sabre rattle is like believing that an alcoholic prefers water.




* No one trust US inteligence on it's own merit anymore. At least not in public opinion.

* The insurer report doesn't really conclude with certainty and the so called evidence could have easely been planted.

It could just as well be a false flag operation by the US and is allies in the region.

I’m not here to argue that there are possibilities. The evidence we have to date, however, is more suggestive that Iran is behind this in the United States. One of the biggest pieces of evidence is that Trump is not rushing into anything. I’m actually quite surprised by the restraint that he has shown so far. I would not have expected that from him.
 
VSMUT
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 5:34 pm

Magog wrote:
The evidence we have to date, however, is more suggestive that Iran is behind this in the United States.


The evidence so far is that the US ripped up an agreement that everybody knew Iran was abiding by. The evidence is that the US has deployed carriers and bombers to the region. The evidence is that the US is preparing to move a military force the size of which hasn't been seen since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, to the region. The evidence is that the US lied about the war in 2003.

Not only that, but they have been doing all of this unprovoked, mere days before a bunch of tankers mysteriously start getting attacked.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Magog wrote:
The evidence we have to date, however, is more suggestive that Iran is behind this in the United States.


The evidence so far is that the US ripped up an agreement that everybody knew Iran was abiding by. The evidence is that the US has deployed carriers and bombers to the region. The evidence is that the US is preparing to move a military force the size of which hasn't been seen since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, to the region. The evidence is that the US lied about the war in 2003.

Not only that, but they have been doing all of this unprovoked, mere days before a bunch of tankers mysteriously start getting attacked.

And Iran is a bully too. You’ve got to do better than that.
 
Olddog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 5:52 pm

For now the US is the worst bully on earth....
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Spar
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Magog wrote:
And Iran is a bully too.

Easy to say, impossible to demonstrate.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Spar wrote:
Magog wrote:
And Iran is a bully too.

Easy to say, impossible to demonstrate.

Jason Rezaian. Aggression in Syria.

I’ve got more.
 
VSMUT
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 6:20 pm

Magog wrote:
Jason Rezaian.


Convicted for espionage based on "evidence". You, the great Magog, put so much faith in "evidence" up above. The least you can do is to be consistent and believe this evidence too.

Besides which, the US is pretty good at having people extradited and tried for espionage themselves.


Magog wrote:
Aggression in Syria.


Invited by a sovereign nation to beat down an Islamist uprising, so not an aggression.
 
Spar
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 6:40 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Convicted for espionage
:checkmark:
VSMUT wrote:
Invited by a sovereign nation to beat down an Islamist uprising
:checkmark:

Notice that when it's convenient, right wingers will not only defend Putin, they are also willing to become the protectors of ISIS.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 9:33 pm

What’s shocking about many of the arguments in this thread is that they conveniently ignore everything that Trump has campaigned on. Equating Trump to Bush is absurd. Unlike Bush, Trump ran on a platform of withdrawing from the Middle East. You just don’t see the signs that Trump truly wants to have a war in the Middle East. You don’t see strategic strikes in retaliation for the attacks on the oil tankers. You don’t see surrogates going out there trying to drum up support for a war. To the contrary, his surrogates on the Sunday talk shows this week said that Trump was not inclined to engage in a war with Iran. Against anyone in his inner circle that things were is a good idea.

Trump is appealing to his base here, and his base wants nothing to do with the war in Iran. All this talk of a wag the dog theory is silly given what Trump space actually believes. They are the America first crowd and they don’t want intervention in somebody else’s affairs. At least not when it comes to making war in the Middle East.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:01 pm

Magog wrote:
I don’t think that we will go to war. Trump appears to be showing some restraint. I also don’t think that the Norwegian insurance carrier gives a rats ass about what the United States things. I am sure that they did their own independent assessment and that the result of that assessment was that they have evidence suggesting that Iran was behind the attacks. Why you would choose to ignore this is beyond me.


He's showing restraint? Him and his war mongering buddy Bolton are the reason for this mess in the first place.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:15 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Magog wrote:
I don’t think that we will go to war. Trump appears to be showing some restraint. I also don’t think that the Norwegian insurance carrier gives a rats ass about what the United States things. I am sure that they did their own independent assessment and that the result of that assessment was that they have evidence suggesting that Iran was behind the attacks. Why you would choose to ignore this is beyond me.


He's showing restraint? Him and his war mongering buddy Bolton are the reason for this mess in the first place.

Don’t confuse bad foreign policy with a genuine desire to go to war.
 
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scbriml
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:31 pm

Magog wrote:
Don’t confuse bad foreign policy with a genuine desire to go to war.


Because Trump only surrounds himself with the best people(tm). :rotfl:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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LMP737
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:32 pm

Magog wrote:
Don’t confuse bad foreign policy with a genuine desire to go to war.


Listening to Bolton over the years I would say he has a very strong desire for it. As for Trump you can only cone to two conclusions. One, he's fully on board with this and talk of his "restraint" is just part of the game they are playing. Or he's asleep at the switch and letting war mongers like Bolton make policy and he's just there to rubber stamp it.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:38 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Don’t confuse bad foreign policy with a genuine desire to go to war.


Listening to Bolton over the years I would say he has a very strong desire for it. As for Trump you can only cone to two conclusions. One, he's fully on board with this and talk of his "restraint" is just part of the game they are playing. Or he's asleep at the switch and letting war mongers like Bolton make policy and he's just there to rubber stamp it.

Apparently you’ve missed the reports that say that Trump is actively feuding with Bolton.

Trump has even publicly stood up to him.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEF ... id=US%3Aen
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:40 pm

scbriml wrote:
Magog wrote:
Don’t confuse bad foreign policy with a genuine desire to go to war.


Because Trump only surrounds himself with the best people(tm). :rotfl:

You are making my point. Trump takes foreign policy directives from people that are questionable but that does not mean that Trump has any desire whatsoever to launch a war with Iran.
 
alfa164
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 10:47 pm

Magog wrote:
a) United States intelligence


"United States" and "Intelligence", under the current administration, is an oxymoron...

:roll:
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Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 11:03 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
a) United States intelligence


"United States" and "Intelligence", under the current administration, is an oxymoron...

:roll:

The vast majority of the intelligence community has served under multiple presidents. I’ve got plenty of issues with his administration but picking on the line workers isn’t at all fair. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do but some people might of taken it that way.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 11:55 pm

Magog wrote:
Apparently you’ve missed the reports that say that Trump is actively feuding with Bolton.

Trump has even publicly stood up to him.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEF ... id=US%3Aen


Let me get this straight he's feuding with Bolton and now he's stood up to him? Are you kidding me? He's the effin president for pete's sake. If your the president you don't feud with your National Security advisory and you sure as hell don't stand up to him. You terminate is employment.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Mon May 20, 2019 11:57 pm

Magog wrote:
You are making my point. Trump takes foreign policy directives from people that are questionable but that does not mean that Trump has any desire whatsoever to launch a war with Iran.


No, he just surrounds himself with people who do and lets them make policy.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 12:03 am

LMP737 wrote:
Magog wrote:
Apparently you’ve missed the reports that say that Trump is actively feuding with Bolton.

Trump has even publicly stood up to him.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEF ... id=US%3Aen


Let me get this straight he's feuding with Bolton and now he's stood up to him? Are you kidding me? He's the effin president for pete's sake. If your the president you don't feud with your National Security advisory and you sure as hell don't stand up to him. You terminate is employment.

Internal squabbles happen ALL of the time in administrations. And it’s not as if Trump has been shy to show people the door. It’s obvious that he is willing to invoke that option.
 
alfa164
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 12:53 am

Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
a) United States intelligence


"United States" and "Intelligence", under the current administration, is an oxymoron...

:roll:

The vast majority of the intelligence community has served under multiple presidents. I’ve got plenty of issues with his administration but picking on the line workers isn’t at all fair. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do but some people might of taken it that way.


You might make the same claim about the Justice Department, but when Trump puts a crony at the top and weaponizes the departments's agenda, it make no difference who the "line workers" are. Remember how Bush-Cheney manipulated "intelligence" to drag us into Iraq?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Magog
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 2:32 am

alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

"United States" and "Intelligence", under the current administration, is an oxymoron...

:roll:

The vast majority of the intelligence community has served under multiple presidents. I’ve got plenty of issues with his administration but picking on the line workers isn’t at all fair. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do but some people might of taken it that way.


You might make the same claim about the Justice Department, but when Trump puts a crony at the top and weaponizes the departments's agenda, it make no difference who the "line workers" are. Remember how Bush-Cheney manipulated "intelligence" to drag us into Iraq?

No, that’s really not an apples to apples comparison. Our intelligence community is still one of the most capable on the planet. You seem desperate to find problems absent evidence. There are plenty of legitimate problems to focus on.
 
LMP737
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 3:18 am

Magog wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Internal squabbles happen ALL of the time in administrations. And it’s not as if Trump has been shy to show people the door. It’s obvious that he is willing to invoke that option.


You can try an spin this all you want. It still comes back to him either being fully on board or being asleep at the switch and being nothing more than a rubber stamp for Bolton. After all, Bolton does not have the power to order CBG and B-52's to go anywhere.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 3:31 am

Can anyone here give a non-partisan and factual readers digest version of the past 30 days? I’m just not buying into the hysteria from either side. Iran doesn’t seem to be a threat and Trump himself doesn’t seem to want a war. So who’s being played?
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VSMUT
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 3:39 am

Magog wrote:
What’s shocking about many of the arguments in this thread is that they conveniently ignore everything that Trump has campaigned on. Equating Trump to Bush is absurd. Unlike Bush, Trump ran on a platform of withdrawing from the Middle East. You just don’t see the signs that Trump truly wants to have a war in the Middle East. You don’t see strategic strikes in retaliation for the attacks on the oil tankers. You don’t see surrogates going out there trying to drum up support for a war. To the contrary, his surrogates on the Sunday talk shows this week said that Trump was not inclined to engage in a war with Iran. Against anyone in his inner circle that things were is a good idea.

Trump is appealing to his base here, and his base wants nothing to do with the war in Iran. All this talk of a wag the dog theory is silly given what Trump space actually believes. They are the America first crowd and they don’t want intervention in somebody else’s affairs. At least not when it comes to making war in the Middle East.


No signs that he wants a war?!

What, apart from aircraft carriers, bombers, plans to send 120.000 troops and the sabotage of tankers to frame the Iranians?

Do you honestly believe the carrier is just there for a sun and fun trip? That 120.000 troops are going on a cultural enrichment trip?
 
Spar
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 5:15 am

Jetsgo wrote:
Can anyone here give a non-partisan and factual readers digest version of the past 30 days? I’m just not buying into the hysteria from either side. Iran doesn’t seem to be a threat and Trump himself doesn’t seem to want a war. So who’s being played?
Are there two sides? The only way I can see that is if it were the Israeli side and the American side. I'm an American.

IMO What's happening is probably best seen as a repeat of how Trump dealt with Kim in 2017. Trump believes in making threats and being intimidating. So he is "using" Bolton for theatrical effect. But Bolton is not alone and Ali Khamenei is not Kim; more importantly, Iran is not North Korea. Bolton comes as a package that includes a number of "hawks" here in the US and also Netanyahu in the land of the perpetual Zionist.

Trump wants to dance up to the edge of the precipice like he did with Kim but there is a problem with doing this with Iran. While Trump is at the edge of this precipice, there are a number of hands that might like to give him a push and shove him all the way in. There may be more attacks by unknowns; the Iranian leadership might even decide they've had enough, there are many possible ways for things to run out of control from the way Trump is managing things. Netanyahu may decide not to miss his big chance and start the ball rolling: he has his means.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 5:49 am

Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
The vast majority of the intelligence community has served under multiple presidents. I’ve got plenty of issues with his administration but picking on the line workers isn’t at all fair. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do but some people might of taken it that way.


You might make the same claim about the Justice Department, but when Trump puts a crony at the top and weaponizes the departments's agenda, it make no difference who the "line workers" are. Remember how Bush-Cheney manipulated "intelligence" to drag us into Iraq?

No, that’s really not an apples to apples comparison. Our intelligence community is still one of the most capable on the planet. You seem desperate to find problems absent evidence. There are plenty of legitimate problems to focus on.



No question that the US has the best inteligence community, but that means nothing if your politicians miss use the information and manipulate it to serve their narrow minded agenda instead of keeping USA and it's allies safe.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 10:01 am

LMP737 wrote:
Magog wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Internal squabbles happen ALL of the time in administrations. And it’s not as if Trump has been shy to show people the door. It’s obvious that he is willing to invoke that option.


You can try an spin this all you want. It still comes back to him either being fully on board or being asleep at the switch and being nothing more than a rubber stamp for Bolton. After all, Bolton does not have the power to order CBG and B-52's to go anywhere.

There’s no spin. I’m just stating facts. Bolton wants more military action and Trump has said no. I get the sense that you’ve never worked with other people in an organization. If you had, you would know that people don’t get fired just because they have a different opinion than their boss. It’s actually a good thing to have a diversity of opinions. Trump SHOULD surround himself with people who can argue both sides of the issue.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 10:30 am

VSMUT wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Which nations would support the US in this war, I doubt any in Europe even the UK would get involved, the Australians have no stake in this, Japan and South Korea, not a chance, I doubt Turkey would get involved, so who does that leave? I even have doubts KSA would join in, so it it would be the US and Israel at most.


The usual suspects. The Danish government will surely line up as always. Norway seems the have the same obsession. The UK is guaranteed. I would guess Poland and Ukraine too, maybe Hungary and Romania.


I very much doubt any UK govt is going to jump into a US instigated war unless the UK itself is under threat. If a govt did they would fall pretty soon after. Norway wouldn't have the stomach or it either.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3027
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: The Iran Threat Thread

Tue May 21, 2019 12:50 pm

Magog wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Magog wrote:
The vast majority of the intelligence community has served under multiple presidents. I’ve got plenty of issues with his administration but picking on the line workers isn’t at all fair. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do but some people might of taken it that way.

You might make the same claim about the Justice Department, but when Trump puts a crony at the top and weaponizes the departments's agenda, it make no difference who the "line workers" are. Remember how Bush-Cheney manipulated "intelligence" to drag us into Iraq?

No, that’s really not an apples to apples comparison. Our intelligence community is still one of the most capable on the planet. You seem desperate to find problems absent evidence. There are plenty of legitimate problems to focus on.


It is exactly an "apples to apples comparison". Our intelligence community was one of the most capable on the planet 16+ years ago... and yet their politically appointed leaders, and their patrons, manipulated the data to convince Congress and the public a threat existed. That is exactly what some of the administration is trying to do today.

You may argue for the sake of arguing... but facts are stubborn things. They just won't go away.


Magog wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
Magog wrote:


You can try an spin this all you want. It still comes back to him either being fully on board or being asleep at the switch and being nothing more than a rubber stamp for Bolton. After all, Bolton does not have the power to order CBG and B-52's to go anywhere.

There’s no spin. I’m just stating facts. Bolton wants more military action and Trump has said no. I get the sense that you’ve never worked with other people in an organization. If you had, you would know that people don’t get fired just because they have a different opinion than their boss. It’s actually a good thing to have a diversity of opinions. Trump SHOULD surround himself with people who can argue both sides of the issue.


Not true... again. To quote Trump's latest words: "I hope not."

That is hardly a reassuring comment coming from a man who has been known to do a 180-degree-turn after listening to some of the demagogues on Faux News for 15 minutes...

:roll:
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