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jdstJD
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:12 am

I have never met a woman who has had an abortion (and I’ve actually not met many) who was not fundamentally changed and sorrowful for having terminated their pregnancy, whether they terminated it because they just didn’t want to go forward with the pregnancy or they had to terminate it for health reasons for the fetus or the mother. Abortions are not something any woman takes lightly so it really angers me when people label people who are against abortions “pro-life”, as though people who do not want abortion to be illegal are somehow anti-life or pro-death. It’s not that simple. These are very difficult decisions that affect women and men who are partners or women for the rest of their lives and no one should have the right to castigate someone for terminating a pregnancy when they have no knowledge of their reason for doing so. If it is a moral or religious issue for those who have abortions then God will deal with it with that person. No one else has the right to.
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WarRI1
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:23 am

I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:55 am

jdstJD wrote:
I have never met a woman who has had an abortion (and I’ve actually not met many) who was not fundamentally changed and sorrowful for having terminated their pregnancy, whether they terminated it because they just didn’t want to go forward with the pregnancy or they had to terminate it for health reasons for the fetus or the mother. Abortions are not something any woman takes lightly so it really angers me when people label people who are against abortions “pro-life”, as though people who do not want abortion to be illegal are somehow anti-life or pro-death. It’s not that simple. These are very difficult decisions that affect women and men who are partners or women for the rest of their lives and no one should have the right to castigate someone for terminating a pregnancy when they have no knowledge of their reason for doing so. If it is a moral or religious issue for those who have abortions then God will deal with it with that person. No one else has the right to.


Can we keep repeating this? Thank you.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 3:08 am

The quickly rising numbers of states passing extreme anti-abortion laws is about several things.
The first is winning elections. They are reflecting the views of the nosiest plurality or in some cases majorities of the public in those states who are anti-abortion so politicians will support that.
Many anti-abortion supporters also want to control sex and women.
Then there is the idea that more extreme you push for to a US Supreme Court appeal to reverse Roe v. Wade then you have a goal and if get less than than wanted, it will likely be still more restrictive than Roe v. Wade allows.
There are also some 'religious' types who are so absolute against any abortion believing it will be their ticket to the mythical heaven.
These laws are also a challenge to how much the Federal Government can control 'states rights', how the SCOTUS has pushed and overruled states on issues like gay marriage, GLTBQ rights, general racial discrimination and so on.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 3:28 am

jdstJD wrote:
I have never met a woman who has had an abortion (and I’ve actually not met many) who was not fundamentally changed and sorrowful for having terminated their pregnancy, whether they terminated it because they just didn’t want to go forward with the pregnancy or they had to terminate it for health reasons for the fetus or the mother. Abortions are not something any woman takes lightly so it really angers me when people label people who are against abortions “pro-life”, as though people who do not want abortion to be illegal are somehow anti-life or pro-death. It’s not that simple. These are very difficult decisions that affect women and men who are partners or women for the rest of their lives and no one should have the right to castigate someone for terminating a pregnancy when they have no knowledge of their reason for doing so. If it is a moral or religious issue for those who have abortions then God will deal with it with that person. No one else has the right to.


If we are talking semantics here, most people who claim to be "pro-choice" are actually adamantly against choice in most facets of daily life - in fact, they love nothing more than to exercise control over people. They just happen to make an exception when it comes to killing babies.
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Aaron747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 3:36 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips


Hilariously disingenuous. Let’s play the same game in reverse - these bills are just an attempt to stave off ‘replacement’ by ensuring all unwanted white children are actually born.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 4:49 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips


Yeah, isn't that something? These hardcore conservatives sooooo concerned about 'black kids'...esp. when they are shot to death while playing in parks or shoot by cops while riding in minivans with their mother.

These guys have turned hypocrisy into a full blown vaudeville act...they should be on Broadway!

BN747
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dragon-wings
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 8:16 am

I was reading a story about the Alabama law in my local newspaper yesterday and they quoted the governor as saying "this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious & that every life is a sacred gift from God." And this is coming from a state that has the death penalty. :banghead:
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Redd
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:18 am

Dutchy wrote:
If you are against abortion, then don't have one. But don't make your beliefs mandatory for others.

Man, this is 50 years back in time.



:checkmark:

What the conservatives don't seem to understand is that nobody is making a hobby out of getting abortions. It's a last resort for most women and the pregnancies are often the result of a traumatic experience.

Another thing I don't understand is why conservatives aren't willing to have a conversation about this topic, to them it's black and white. Heck, being aviation fans and knowing that no incident or accident is black and white but is comprised of many interconnected variables which ultimately led to a crisis situation, and not being able to transfer that approach to human beings who are infinity more complicated creatures than machines is just shocking.

The problem is the belief in God, and the politics of using a make believe character to rally people for or against something.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:26 am

dragon-wings wrote:
I was reading a story about the Alabama law in my local newspaper yesterday and they quoted the governor as saying "this legislation stands as a powerful testament to Alabamians’ deeply held belief that every life is precious & that every life is a sacred gift from God." And this is coming from a state that has the death penalty. :banghead:


And as a society, not very caring for people ones they are born and thought out their lives. That is most remarkable, the caring society is a foreign concept to many of these so-called pro-lifers. Ah well, this hypocrisy is probably above their comprehension level.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:30 am

I don't see why any person should be allowed to leech from others. I mean why should people think that people who aren't paying their dues should just be able to take take take.

Its time people took back control and get rid of the hangers on in society.

I guess you can insert women/government and Fetus/Member of society in there, I would guess most people have to make some back flips with it.

Fred
Last edited by flipdewaf on Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ltbewr
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:34 am

Why do women have abortions ? Good question. Per a survey done by a respected group maybe 1% are due to a rape, low percentages due to the health of the developing fetus, the woman's health - the overwhelming reasons are economic and disruption of their lives. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defaul ... 711005.pdf

I would like to see a much larger, more detailed and newer survey (the above linked one was done in 2004). I suspect the numbers wouldn't be much different, that a very tiny number would be from rape, incest, medical and disability problems with the fetus and save the life of the mother. The overwhelming reasons would be still economic and general disruption of life issues. That the overwhelming number of abortions are in effect birth control, means a need to come up with ways to reduce the need for them. Improved and comprehensive sexual health education. Improved access to cheap birth control products and more effective ones. Men and women making sure they use birth control or not having sex at all if don't want to have a baby. Women must be empowered to have control over their sexual lives and men need to change their behaviors as to pushing women to have unprotected sex by them.

Trying to eliminate legal abortion is not a good answer, that will just create various problems. Over the last decades, the numbers of abortions have declined due to various reasons including as I cited above. We need to continue that reduction in the numbers of abortions, to make is so as then President Bill Clinton said - safe, legal and rare.
 
marcelh
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 12:27 pm

How many of you posting in this thread are against abortion and are also woman?
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 12:45 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips


Now this REALLY should show people once and for all the lengths conservatives will go to try to convince people that their position on abortion (and most other issues) are truth based and legitimate. Everyone knows DAMN well republicans and conservatives could care less about black people and relish in the fantasy that black people would just disappear from the planet, let alone America.

I know this post is harsh but that tucker clip pissed me off. I am so tired of the ridiculousness that comes from Fox News.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:30 pm

Does "god" love babies? Fetuses? I don't think so based on what the people who believe in god tell me.

If god loves babies, fetuses even, then why does god consider them sinful, dirty, to be "unpure"? Babies cannot get into heaven. (WTF?)

Nowadays people baptize their babies quickly so they can be "saved", because the parents love the baby (not the church or god apparently) and want to have their baby safe and "saved" quickly. But supposedly, according to the actual scriptures, even the new testament, one must consciously accept Christ, and god etc. in order to actually be saved. And babies can't do that of course. And if you go old testament they you can go find 2 Samuel and see how god kills a baby in-utero because god is displeased.

That was always among the most ridiculous things about religion to me, the idea that babies or their souls or whatever are unclean.
https://www.gospelway.com/salvation/infant_baptism.php

Look abortion is a human thing, a human condition. No one actually "wants abortion" but the simple fact is it is the woman's body and should be, no must be a choice she is allowed to make. Once you get there, then comes the question: What are the limits? What is acceptable? And this is where it gets hard even for people who support a woman's right to have control over her own body. I mean those people basically stop and go no further and refuse to discuss a timeframe, what limits might be acceptable to the right to terminate.

Who here supports 12 weeks? The "first trimester" rule? The is what Roe v Wade calls for and what Europe has set. I have said upthread that I tend more toward 20 weeks, and another member noted 16 weeks (which is probably in my mind the right middle ground) but this begins to make it difficult for "pro-choicers" as many seem to have just sat at the "I'm pro choice" thinking that ends the discussion. And it doesn't.

Tugg
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apodino
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:36 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips

What Matt Bevin was likely referring to is a quote attributed to Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger about the need to exterminate the Negro population. Because of the racist views that Sanger held, it is widely believed among the pro-life community that one of the purposes behind the founding of Planned Parenthood was in fact to exterminate the black community. Aside from this, the pro-life points out that more Black children in New York City are aborted rather than born, and Planned Parenthood tends to open up shop in minority areas more that white areas. (In Planned Parenthoods defense on the last point though, minority dominated areas tend to be more liberal than white areas and probably have fewer barriers to opening in such communities).

I would also point one other thing out. The Georgia bill passed with bipartisan support. The Democrats who voted for it all happened to be minorities. Also, the growing Hispanic population that the left courts tends to be very Catholic and very pro-life as well. Just sayin.
 
apodino
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 2:41 pm

marcelh wrote:
How many of you posting in this thread are against abortion and are also woman?

I am not but my wife is definitely one such person, and would probably divorce me if I became pro-choice. The funny thing is, I know more pro-life women than pro-choice women and most of the energy that I have seen for the pro-life cause has definitely been from women, and I see very little of it from men.

Abby Johnson and Lila Rose are probably two of the most outspoken people in this country on the pro-life side. Both are women, and Johnson even is a former director of a Planned Parenthood clinic. Her life story was just made into a movie called Unplanned. I would urge everyone to see it regardless of their view on this issue.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 3:00 pm

Tugger wrote:

Who here supports 12 weeks? The "first trimester" rule? The is what Roe v Wade calls for and what Europe has set. I have said upthread that I tend more toward 20 weeks, and another member noted 16 weeks (which is probably in my mind the right middle ground) but this begins to make it difficult for "pro-choicers" as many seem to have just sat at the "I'm pro choice" thinking that ends the discussion. And it doesn't.

Tugg


Roe Vs Wade set a viability test. That actually exists around 23-24 weeks. Some babies have survived earlier outside the womb, but the mortality rate is high.

20 weeks is a good midpoint, but I think for cases of rape or incest it should be much higher.

All that being said, we as a society need to work on the thinks that make abortion common. We need to support pregnant woment with GREAT QUALITY, and AFFORDABLE health care before and after the child is born.

With all these laws, women will still get abortions because they can't afford it, and they will do it any way they can.

If Anti Abortion folks were even 5% serious about the sanctity of human life, then we would be having discussions about paid maternity leave and medical care for all, instead of making abortion a criminal offense.
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 4:34 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Why do women have abortions ? Good question. Per a survey done by a respected group maybe 1% are due to a rape, low percentages due to the health of the developing fetus, the woman's health - the overwhelming reasons are economic and disruption of their lives. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defaul ... 711005.pdf

I would like to see a much larger, more detailed and newer survey (the above linked one was done in 2004). I suspect the numbers wouldn't be much different, that a very tiny number would be from rape, incest, medical and disability problems with the fetus and save the life of the mother. The overwhelming reasons would be still economic and general disruption of life issues. That the overwhelming number of abortions are in effect birth control, means a need to come up with ways to reduce the need for them. Improved and comprehensive sexual health education. Improved access to cheap birth control products and more effective ones. Men and women making sure they use birth control or not having sex at all if don't want to have a baby. Women must be empowered to have control over their sexual lives and men need to change their behaviors as to pushing women to have unprotected sex by them.

Trying to eliminate legal abortion is not a good answer, that will just create various problems. Over the last decades, the numbers of abortions have declined due to various reasons including as I cited above. We need to continue that reduction in the numbers of abortions, to make is so as then President Bill Clinton said - safe, legal and rare.


As cited in the link, the top two reasons are financial and emotional stability. Women are not doing it for selfish reasons. They are thinking about how they can not afford a child. The whole "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em" that we constantly hear from the right.

This country needs stronger reproductive health education. Not "abstinence only" because that does not work. People, not just women, need to know they have options before anything happens. There needs to be access to birth control and education.
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 4:35 pm

If these people are so concerned about the right to life and children's lives and so forth, why do we still have mass shootings? Why was an 18 year old being buried and eulogized as a hero for throwing himself in front of a shooter and saving his classmates? What kind of messed up logic is that?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
If these people are so concerned about the right to life and children's lives and so forth, why do we still have mass shootings? Why was an 18 year old being buried and eulogized as a hero for throwing himself in front of a shooter and saving his classmates? What kind of messed up logic is that?


Thoughts and Prayers should work for both right?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Derico
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 5:09 pm

Agreed that if you are not prepared as a citizen to give that child total support ater birth from health, to education, to a safe environment to grow up and recreation to develop his imagination, your pro life conviction is no more genuine than telling someone you wish for "peace on Earth", and then move on with your life.

To pretend that just making the action criminal will lead to that child receiving all of the above requisites for just the chance of being a productive citizen, without you not even moving a finger or giving a cent, is at best the stuff of delusions.
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coolian2
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 5:47 pm

BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.
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Pyrex
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 6:08 pm

coolian2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.
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Tugger
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 6:22 pm

Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.

Interesting. Didn't realize you had such twisted views. As jdstJD and others have noted, most everyone who has had an abortion does not view it as you are stating. That you believe that "it is just a clump of cells" is telling.

For me personally the idea of losing a baby is one of the worst things that can happen.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
910A
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 7:42 pm

Speaking of abortion and rape, the Missouri GOP never fails us..

Republican Missouri state lawmaker on Friday stunned many of his colleagues when he made a reference to “consensual rape” on the floor of the state’s House of Representatives.

During a debate over an anti-abortion law that was passed by the Missouri House of Representatives on Friday, GOP Rep. Barry Hovis, a former law enforcement official, argued that opponents of the bill were overestimating how often women in the United States were really raped.


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/gop-la ... use-floor/
 
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scbriml
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 8:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
This country needs stronger reproductive health education. Not "abstinence only" because that does not work. People, not just women, need to know they have options before anything happens. There needs to be access to birth control and education.


^This!

The thing I haven't seen mentioned here is, if you make all abortion illegal, all you do is drive it underground. That results in huge risk to the health of the women involved. Women will still get pregnant and some of them will still want an abortion. Far better to have it legal and above board than the alternative, even if that offends the right-wing bible-thumpers.
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coolian2
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 pm

Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.

I've made one post in this thread. Have I said clump of cells? I also didn't know my office (???) caused....miscarriages? Is that right?
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:15 pm

Tugger wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.

Interesting. Didn't realize you had such twisted views. As jdstJD and others have noted, most everyone who has had an abortion does not view it as you are stating. That you believe that "it is just a clump of cells" is telling.

For me personally the idea of losing a baby is one of the worst things that can happen.

Tugg


Losing a baby in any way is horrible. Some women do not have a choice in how that baby is conceived, either. Now, in some states, both the mother and child will die with no choice. All because the government thinks they should be morality police and tell everyone how to live. To carry a child to term should not be the government's decision.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:18 pm

50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:25 pm

Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.


Yes, just as you were a 'clump of cells' at some point, so was I, so was everyone on this site and everyone on the planet. Millions more who never made it to 'see' life, millions more who had it taken away.
Only a fool cannot discern that.. a miscarraige (Nature's abortion) opposed to an intent abortion are TWO different things.

Sure I feel for couples trying to start a family and having going against all odds trying to make it happen. But I also know it happens very often while on the other side of town is disposing 'a clump' of cells for whatever reason. It's harsh, but is a fact!

But because I've seen too many screwed up situations between couples, from those who should not be have children period- to the ugliest divorces ever -destroying the lives of children caught in the middle to one or both couples killing their own kid(s) to those kids who need a home so badly - yet no one comes for them.

You want bitch about my 'clump of cells' comment is pretty damn stupid because that is our origin - and some people are predisposed to have kids year and after year for decades and others - not happening.

You are a clump of cells as you type a reply, I'm a clump of cells. we all are! Big f'n deal, who cares what we called when it's true/ It's not a pretty representation, but it is what we are...now grow up!

I view life, ALL life as 'special and unique' but also so pervasive and everywhere so much so that the same time it isn't so special, walk down Broadway in NYC and tell me in that crowd how 'special' you feel.

Tugger wrote:
Interesting. Didn't realize you had such twisted views. As jdstJD and others have noted, most everyone who has had an abortion does not view it as you are stating. That you believe that "it is just a clump of cells" is telling.

For me personally the idea of losing a baby is one of the worst things that can happen.

Tugg


Not sure who you threw that dart at? Me or Pyrex...if it was aimed at me, I'll say that as bad as you think 'the loss of a baby is as bad' as you say, it's 10X wprse for a mother who carries for nearly a year inside her body - Not you, HER! You have no similar attachment no matter how much you think you do. You don't.

Her loss is far greater in measure of pain and one that sticks forever.

That is why ultimately, it IS a Woman's choice. stop thinking men like you can KNOW what's going pn in their head.

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Fri May 17, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


How silly, how many would you have adopted had they survived - Answer: NONE!

How many would you have gladly shared your income to assist those willing to adopt and care for them? - Answer: NONE voluntarily.

50 million people made decisions that they had a change of heart about...you don't know their 50 million reasons, so stop acting as of you do!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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casinterest
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:36 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


Well if toy go with that number, then you have realize that about 200 million kids have been born in that time.


1 in 5 women is raped once in their lifetime
https://ncadv.org/statistics

and then you get to a pretty close run. It is probably not exact, as not all rapes wind up in unwanted pregnancies,.

But then you look at another statistic on that page

1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence (e.g. beating, burning, strangling) by an intimate partner in their lifetime.1


And you start to see that some relationships just are not healthy.

But really, why did you post such an infantile post without a source?

Could it be that since 1989 the abortion rate is going down without the need for these draconian laws by Abusive cowards?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_ ... ted_States

And since row, there have only been 43 Million abortions, with the current rate less than half of what it was in the 80's.

There are currently 188 abortions for every 1000 live births. It is a high number.

Also
when you consider that 13..5% of the US population lives below the poverty level, and of that 70% are women and children, you start to see the real issues.

https://www.legalmomentum.org/women-and-poverty-america
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Jalap
Posts: 473
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 9:53 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Why do women have abortions ? Good question. Per a survey done by a respected group maybe 1% are due to a rape, low percentages due to the health of the developing fetus, the woman's health - the overwhelming reasons are economic and disruption of their lives. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defaul ... 711005.pdf

Aren’t those good reasons?
You could try decent wellfare for living people, so that there’ll be less for economical reasons.
And as for disruption, I think you should be ready to have children before you start having them. Too soon is bad for parents and child.
You know, in Europe far right people sometimes claim people should have a licence before being allowed to have children. It’s a different view.

Finally, I think it’s quite obvious that pro life extremists should also support the idea that every child has a father and that the father should ALWAYS be responsible for at least half the child support.
 
LMP737
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:40 pm

caliboy93 wrote:
Many states like Georgia, Alabama, and Missouri are suddenly passing strict anti-abortion laws which completely forbid abortion regardless of circumstances, and has life sentences for doctors who perform one. I think it's crazy, because while I'm actually more pro-life, in certain situations a pregnancy might put a woman's life in danger in which case abortion would be the best thing to do.


Since Alabama seems to be spearheading this why don't take a closer look at the state. According to the latest figures from the CDC Alabama has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country. They are also the worst when it comes to public education. Last but not least they are in the top ten for childhood poverty.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosm ... tality.htm
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-stat ... ort-2019-4
https://www.childrensdefense.org/wp-con ... -Sheet.pdf

So as you can see the leaders of the state of Alabama could care less about children. They're quit frankly pro-birth, not pro-life.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:41 pm

Pyrex wrote:
One day, many moons from now, people will look back at this period in history the same way we look back at Nazi Germany today and wonder how it was possible for a group of people who consider themselves so enlightened and morally superior to everyone to condone the dehumanizing and wholesale slaughter of millions of unborn babies at the altar of convenience. That day is not here for a while, but it is good to see some progress being made in the right direction.


Please don't say you believe this because of your Christian beliefs.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


Well if toy go with that number, then you have realize that about 200 million kids have been born in that time.


1 in 5 women is raped once in their lifetime
https://ncadv.org/statistics

and then you get to a pretty close run. It is probably not exact, as not all rapes wind up in unwanted pregnancies,.

But then you look at another statistic on that page

1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence (e.g. beating, burning, strangling) by an intimate partner in their lifetime.1


And you start to see that some relationships just are not healthy.

But really, why did you post such an infantile post without a source?


Thanks for posting that, but I must say those numbers higher, much higher.

I feel for people who see life thru 'stats'..because real life is much more reveal if you are willing to get your eyes 'dirty'..meaning open them and look at what's going on around you EVEN if they are occurrences outside your normal circle of comfort.

I've had extensive conversations with female friends over the decades...but they one's that stand above all are the stories from the model types, strikingly beautiful ones. If you can get them to tell you of their childhood, it'll knock you off your feet. One shared with me how she just wanted ice cream from the Ice Cream man, all he was to spout off all kinds of sordid foul disgisting things to a little girl that had no clue what he was going on about. Then they'd speak of relatives making moves on them as entered puberty...and you can guess which direction the level of harassment took as they aged - men are the biggest problem when pursuing women with the most disingenuous aim - to bang and run. It's easy for a young woman/girl to conclude that having a kid with the cad may lead to something longlasting, a family. Then it doesn't.

That reason alone is why I say, 'it's a woman's decision...period.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 10:51 pm

BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


How silly, how many would you have adopted had they survived - Answer: NONE!

How many would you have gladly shared your income to assist those willing to adopt and care for them? - Answer: NONE voluntarily.

50 million people made decisions that they had a change of heart about...you don't know their 50 million reasons, so stop acting as of you do!

BN747


I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

GF
 
Pyrex
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 11:05 pm

LMP737 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
One day, many moons from now, people will look back at this period in history the same way we look back at Nazi Germany today and wonder how it was possible for a group of people who consider themselves so enlightened and morally superior to everyone to condone the dehumanizing and wholesale slaughter of millions of unborn babies at the altar of convenience. That day is not here for a while, but it is good to see some progress being made in the right direction.


Please don't say you believe this because of your Christian beliefs.


Where did I ever say I believed in imaginary sky fairies?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 17, 2019 11:28 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

I like that too.

So I assume you actively support sex education and contraceptive access and education? And that those you vote to elect should support it to fall in line with the idea of both personal responsibility and limiting abortions?

And you support creating a strong protective situation for women who are raped? For them to be able to report and have action taken?

I definitely agree with that. Lets end the need for abortions!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:01 am

Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Wanna decide for women a minimum of tampon usage per month as well?

When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.


Oh well. The world is overpopulated by an estimated 3.4 billion homo sapiens beyond sustainability with current technology. There are other forms of life on our world impacted by the sustainability crisis and none of them are ‘clumps of cells’ - in many cases sentient and caring for their families as we are. But I don’t see you advocating for them, so it’s all BS anyway.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LMP737
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:09 am

Pyrex wrote:

Where did I ever say I believed in imaginary sky fairies?


I had to ask. After all, it's what's fueling this whole thing.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:17 am

LMP737 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

Where did I ever say I believed in imaginary sky fairies?


I had to ask. After all, it's what's fueling this whole thing.


I don't give a shit why other people don't want to kill babies, just as long as they end up on the right side of history, I care why I don't want to kill babies.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Pyrex
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.


Oh well. The world is overpopulated by an estimated 3.4 billion homo sapiens beyond sustainability with current technology. There are other forms of life on our world impacted by the sustainability crisis and none of them are ‘clumps of cells’ - in many cases sentient and caring for their families as we are. But I don’t see you advocating for them, so it’s all BS anyway.


I hope you too one day have the privilege of having a son or daughter die on you. Half the world's population is supranumerary anyway, ain't that right, Mr. Thanos? Plus, at least they wouldn't have the misery of having you as a parent.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:25 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


How silly, how many would you have adopted had they survived - Answer: NONE!

How many would you have gladly shared your income to assist those willing to adopt and care for them? - Answer: NONE voluntarily.

50 million people made decisions that they had a change of heart about...you don't know their 50 million reasons, so stop acting as of you do!

BN747


I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

GF


Everyone wasn't raised like you.
You were brought into this world like most people were - most are born into poverty and no guidance or opportunity for your well manicured life. So they do what they must to get by.

You proud of your mom's RN works defying the Catholic Church or just happening thinking that her 'great' advice was given out frequently....but assuming these people told that, never knew what condom was before meeting your mom?

'Personal Responsible? Really? You only believe in that when it's handy, do you say to the moron leading the country? No you support, endlessly the most irresponsible human to ever run a country.


Tugger wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

I like that too.

So I assume you actively support sex education and contraceptive access and education? And that those you vote to elect should support it to fall in line with the idea of both personal responsibility and limiting abortions?

And you support creating a strong protective situation for women who are raped? For them to be able to report and have action taken?

I definitely agree with that. Lets end the need for abortions!

Tugg


"Lets end the need for abortions!" ...nice bumper sticker, now ...what is step one?


Aaron747 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
When my wife miscarried it was followed by a very heavy period. Perhaps the abortion cops should monitor pad use and prosecute accordingly.


And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.


Oh well. The world is overpopulated by an estimated 3.4 billion homo sapiens beyond sustainability with current technology. There are other forms of life on our world impacted by the sustainability crisis and none of them are ‘clumps of cells’ - in many cases sentient and caring for their families as we are. But I don’t see you advocating for them, so it’s all BS anyway.


Yes they are 'Clumps of Cells'...EVERY single living thing on this plant is a fragile vulnerable 'Clump of cells' in various arrangement.

People uncomfortable with the phrase are offended because 'we have this habit of thinking 'we are ALL that'... if we were ALL that, we'd be smarter than we are currently behaving.
Don't believe me? Jump in your car, drive across town, and back...now count how many idiot foolish and stupid drivers you encounter. Some people do it all day (dtive Fed Ex guy, bus drivers) and the numbers are astronomical...and that's just driving and observing.

If we were ALL that, every family would not be so dysfunctional, Most are!

We do our best in every country, the western countries have it easier than the others and yet the have most extreme negative social social concerns regarding raising kids.

There are plenty of 'how to raise a kid book' But none of them fit every potential family, then the parents get real and go through periods of instability and the whole plan goes out the window and the family is a disaster, although most do not end up in the disaster zone, they flirt with it often and manage to avoid it for whatever the reason.

But in the grand scheme of universal matter, we are organic fragile clumps of cells, bears, lions, whales, US, trees...everything. Get past being offended that what are what we are.
Some Clumps are smarter than others, some are put together better than others, everything is in play on what you decide to make of your clump of cells.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:45 am

Pyrex wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

And when my wife miscarried we were as emotionally devastated as if we had lost a baby that had been born. But hey, for you it is just a clump of cells anyway, so I guess it was just another day at the office.


Oh well. The world is overpopulated by an estimated 3.4 billion homo sapiens beyond sustainability with current technology. There are other forms of life on our world impacted by the sustainability crisis and none of them are ‘clumps of cells’ - in many cases sentient and caring for their families as we are. But I don’t see you advocating for them, so it’s all BS anyway.


I hope you too one day have the privilege of having a son or daughter die on you. Half the world's population is supranumerary anyway, ain't that right, Mr. Thanos? Plus, at least they wouldn't have the misery of having you as a parent.


I have a nephew and niece so I’m off the hook, thanks. Since you didn’t actually respond on the merits of value of life, I’ll take that as confirmation your hypocrisy is matched only by your hubris.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
50 million abortions since Roe, that’s a lot of raping and incest. Who knew?

GF


How silly, how many would you have adopted had they survived - Answer: NONE!

How many would you have gladly shared your income to assist those willing to adopt and care for them? - Answer: NONE voluntarily.

50 million people made decisions that they had a change of heart about...you don't know their 50 million reasons, so stop acting as of you do!

BN747


I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

GF


That's good that you think you have personal responsibility. I have known many people however that walk all over their partners and kids. They think they are God's gift, and then beat the shit out of those that say otherwise. Men who knock up women and then walk away. Mend and Women who can't get away from the bottle or the needle.
Personal responsibility has no place in the abortion discussion, as getting to pregnancy has many paths beyond personal responsibility.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 1:11 am

casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:

How silly, how many would you have adopted had they survived - Answer: NONE!

How many would you have gladly shared your income to assist those willing to adopt and care for them? - Answer: NONE voluntarily.

50 million people made decisions that they had a change of heart about...you don't know their 50 million reasons, so stop acting as of you do!

BN747


I was raised with this truly weird concept of morality drilled into me—personal responsibility—you are responsible for your actions and must pay for the consequences of being stupid and you’ll be rewarded for being smart. Totally alien and old fashioned idea today. My mom, an RN, used hand out condoms after the nuns at the Catholic hospital told the new illegitimate mothers to behave. I liked that.

GF


That's good that you think you have personal responsibility. I have known many people however that walk all over their partners and kids. They think they are God's gift, and then beat the shit out of those that say otherwise. Men who knock up women and then walk away. Mend and Women who can't get away from the bottle or the needle.
Personal responsibility has no place in the abortion discussion, as getting to pregnancy has many paths beyond personal responsibility.


Now you are showing them a world in which they are very unfamiliar...cuz everyone has the same set of circumstances that they do - Or so they think.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 1:17 am

jdstJD wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
I saw the Governor of Kentucky tonight on Fox spinning abortion as a plot to eliminate black children and that is why they are against the practice. The Tucker Carlson show. I thought it was laughable for him to take that stance.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/60214358110 ... show-clips


Now this REALLY should show people once and for all the lengths conservatives will go to try to convince people that their position on abortion (and most other issues) are truth based and legitimate. Everyone knows DAMN well republicans and conservatives could care less about black people and relish in the fantasy that black people would just disappear from the planet, let alone America.

I know this post is harsh but that tucker clip pissed me off. I am so tired of the ridiculousness that comes from Fox News.
:checkmark: :checkmark:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Sat May 18, 2019 1:25 am

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/0 ... /23728807/


I agree with her, especially about government and her body. Hypocrisy is the norm for conservatives on this and many other issues.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
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