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scbriml
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Mon May 27, 2019 7:33 am

aviationaware wrote:
scbriml wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Disability is no reason to abort.


I said severe disability.

Who decides which disability is severe and which isn't?


Doctors and the parents. Not you, not "god" and certainly not the government. It's pretty simple really.

How about answering the question put to you?
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aviationaware
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Mon May 27, 2019 8:36 am

I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Mon May 27, 2019 9:56 am

aviationaware wrote:
I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.


Under all circumstances?
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Mon May 27, 2019 3:55 pm

aviationaware wrote:
I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.


Give us your reason for inserting yourself into another person's life? A person you will never see? How can you and people with your same opinion have that right? How do you all think you all are superior and have the moral wherewithall to decide what is best for everyone else?

If you are a Christian, you believe that God gave us free will. To decide for ourselves how our own lives are to be led. What gives you all the right to decide for others? Are you also willing to pay for the health care of those severely disabled babies? Their funerals? Therapy for the family?
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seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Mon May 27, 2019 5:51 pm

I did some travelling this past week and heard a couple of interviews on NPR talking about Janet Porter who helped get some of these anti choice bills started in state legislatures

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/18/72465637 ... net-porter
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stl07
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Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:15 am

So, if you watch CNN/MSNBC/NBC (I haven't seen it on FOX yet but I'm sure it'll come on) or really any other news channel, you would have found out that there is a "women's health emergency" going on in Missouri as Missouri's last abortion clinic may lose its license, making MO the first state without an abortion clinic. So, everyone with already politically charged notions used this information to make fancy headlines such as black day for women since roe v wade and the like. On TV, unfortunately, some of my favorite news reporters, as well as abortion providers from that specific clinic who were obviously concerned about losing their job as anyone would were warning that, should the clinic lose the license, women would have to travel great distances for basic health services. Now here is the thing, this clinic is in MO's ultra-liberal city, aka STL (it may surprise some a.netters that there are liberal areas not on the coastlines). But what the media forgot (and the clinic's employees don't want you to know as they want their clinic to be saved though national spotlight) is that STL is one of the handful of cities in the country that extends into another state, that state being Illinois, where abortion is not regulated anywhere near the level it is in the MO side of STL. Sure enough, the border in Illinois is dotted with abortion providers, and the qualifications for abortions are much less strict. So this "abortion crisis" and these "long distances" that women have to travel are a 10-30 min max train or bus/car ride for the small percentage of individuals who are not already driving to Illinois for abortions as the MO law is already very strict on who can have an abortion. In STL, there is already a culture of driving/taking the train to get around state laws. Teens go to the Illinois side for Juuls and other smoking products as the age is 18 instead of 21 on the MO side, other Missourians go to Illinois for strip clubs which are conveniently located right by the welcome to Illinois sign, Illinois residents go to MO for cheap gas, and yes, MO women already go to and will keep going to IL for abortions, regardless of what happens to the clinic's license. So, let's wait until the clinic actually gets its license revoked and MO disassembles the bridges to IL before coming up with fancy headlines.

Here is an article about the situation that isn't as politically charged as the rest, but still neglects what I wrote above
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-h ... n-n1011006
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Aaron747
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:25 am

stl07 wrote:
So, if you watch CNN/MSNBC/NBC (I haven't seen it on FOX yet but I'm sure it'll come on) or really any other news channel, you would have found out that there is a "women's health emergency" going on in Missouri as Missouri's last abortion clinic may lose its license, making MO the first state without an abortion clinic. So, everyone with already politically charged notions used this information to make fancy headlines such as black day for women since roe v wade and the like. On TV, unfortunately, some of my favorite news reporters, as well as abortion providers from that specific clinic who were obviously concerned about losing their job as anyone would were warning that, should the clinic lose the license, women would have to travel great distances for basic health services. Now here is the thing, this clinic is in MO's ultra-liberal city, aka STL (it may surprise some a.netters that there are liberal areas not on the coastlines). But what the media forgot (and the clinic's employees don't want you to know as they want their clinic to be saved though national spotlight) is that STL is one of the handful of cities in the country that extends into another state, that state being Illinois, where abortion is not regulated anywhere near the level it is in the MO side of STL. Sure enough, the border in Illinois is dotted with abortion providers, and the qualifications for abortions are much less strict. So this "abortion crisis" and these "long distances" that women have to travel are a 10-30 min max train or bus/car ride for the small percentage of individuals who are not already driving to Illinois for abortions as the MO law is already very strict on who can have an abortion. In STL, there is already a culture of driving/taking the train to get around state laws. Teens go to the Illinois side for Juuls and other smoking products as the age is 18 instead of 21 on the MO side, other Missourians go to Illinois for strip clubs which are conveniently located right by the welcome to Illinois sign, Illinois residents go to MO for cheap gas, and yes, MO women already go to and will keep going to IL for abortions, regardless of what happens to the clinic's license. So, let's wait until the clinic actually gets its license revoked and MO disassembles the bridges to IL before coming up with fancy headlines.

Here is an article about the situation that isn't as politically charged as the rest, but still neglects what I wrote above
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-h ... n-n1011006


One obvious logic flaw though: Miller County is the geographic center of MO, not STL, so as a statewide law, that ostensibly would require significant driving distance and expense for any woman facing a tough choice.
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stl07
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:31 am

^^You missed the point. STL is the ONLY abortion clinic in MO. This revoking of license would close that one. Meaning women in the state from southern/central MO already have to drive for 1-2 hours to get to STL (those on the west "coast" in KC can go to Kansas). So the STL one closing only adds a 10 min drive, and a lot of women already have to make that drive due to restrictive MO laws. Nobody cared when the central MO serving rural areas closed, which I felt was the real one that should have received attention, everyone only cares about this STL one as it makes the headline "abortion dry state"
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Aaron747
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:36 am

stl07 wrote:
^^You missed the point. STL is the ONLY abortion clinic in MO. This revoking of license would close that one. Meaning women in the state from southern/central MO already have to drive for 1-2 hours to get to STL (those on the west "coast" in KC can go to Kansas). So the STL one closing only adds a 10 min drive, and a lot of women already have to make that drive due to restrictive MO laws. Nobody cared when the central MO serving rural areas closed, which I felt was the real one that should have received attention, everyone only cares about this STL one as it makes the headline "abortion dry state"


Right, so it logically follows that there won’t be an ability to provide these services legally in any part of MO. Naturally that’s the point of the law, but it ignores the obvious unintended consequences.
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Aesma
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 8:17 am

So, in the "land of the free", it's fine if a state bans all kinds of things because you can get them in the next state ?

You're fine with banning guns in some states too ?
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Magog
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 10:39 am

Aesma wrote:
So, in the "land of the free", it's fine if a state bans all kinds of things because you can get them in the next state ?

You're fine with banning guns in some states too ?

Wow. Where did they say that? I’m so tired of this tactic on A.net. All the OP said was that the hysteria about women having to drive long distances to get an abortion solely because of the closure of this clinic is misplaced. And that is very true. Shouldn’t you be concerned that the press isn’t even fact checking before printing these articles?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 10:51 am

This MO law pretty much bans hospitals from doing abortions even if to save the life of the mother. It will put 100's of women per year in that state from being able to get a life-saving abortion as not enough time in most of the state to get to another state where legal then you have the problem of the costs and difficulties with insurance paying for it. Already many hospitals cannot do abortions as have Roman Catholic ownership, the clinics were the only real option in some markets.
 
Magog
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 11:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
This MO law pretty much bans hospitals from doing abortions even if to save the life of the mother. It will put 100's of women per year in that state from being able to get a life-saving abortion as not enough time in most of the state to get to another state where legal then you have the problem of the costs and difficulties with insurance paying for it. Already many hospitals cannot do abortions as have Roman Catholic ownership, the clinics were the only real option in some markets.

Interesting argument, albeit untrue.

From CNN:
The legislation, known as House Bill 126, includes exceptions for what it defines as medical emergencies -- such as cases when a mother's life is at risk or she is facing serious permanent injury

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/24/poli ... index.html
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 12:26 pm

This doesn't even have anything to do with the recent legislation. The clinic was under investigation and has been asked to fix items considered to be "deficient". The clinic agreed to two of the three items but is opposing a third item.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 2:30 pm

Magog wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So, in the "land of the free", it's fine if a state bans all kinds of things because you can get them in the next state ?

You're fine with banning guns in some states too ?

Wow. Where did they say that? I’m so tired of this tactic on A.net. All the OP said was that the hysteria about women having to drive long distances to get an abortion solely because of the closure of this clinic is misplaced. And that is very true. Shouldn’t you be concerned that the press isn’t even fact checking before printing these articles?


stl07 said the ban is a non issue since abortions are available in a state nearby.
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910A
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 3:03 pm

stl07 wrote:
is that STL is one of the handful of cities in the country that extends into another state, that state being Illinois, where abortion is not regulated anywhere near the level it is in the MO side of STL. Sure enough, the border in Illinois is dotted with abortion providers, and the qualifications for abortions are much less strict.


Since when does the city of St. Louis extend into Illinois?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 3:19 pm

910A wrote:
stl07 wrote:
is that STL is one of the handful of cities in the country that extends into another state, that state being Illinois, where abortion is not regulated anywhere near the level it is in the MO side of STL. Sure enough, the border in Illinois is dotted with abortion providers, and the qualifications for abortions are much less strict.


Since when does the city of St. Louis extend into Illinois?


St. Louis, the city, (and the county for that matter) does not. But the metropolitan area is largely considered to extend well into Illinois.

Much like Kansas City, while being specifically in MO, also typically assumed to contain the metro area in Kansas.

For instance, I claim to have grown up in St. Louis, but that's a misnomer. I actually grew up in Maryland Heights, but nobody knows what city that is outside of .. well St. Louis. So I just say I'm from St. Louis.

Edit to add a picture of what is generally considered to be "St. Louis" by St. Louisans

Image
 
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T18
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 3:26 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
910A wrote:
stl07 wrote:


For instance, I claim to have grown up in St. Louis, but that's a misnomer. I actually grew up in Maryland Heights, but nobody knows what city that is outside of .. well St. Louis. So I just say I'm from St. Louis.

Edit to add a picture of what is generally considered to be "St. Louis" by St. Louisans

Image


And given the location of Maryland Heights many natives now can make an assumption about your race, family income and of course the most import thing to natives, where you went to high school. The other silly thing with St Louis is that the City and County are not the same entity, that was a bit of a confusion for me when I moved here.
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mham001
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 4:16 pm

Aesma wrote:
You're fine with banning guns in some states too ?


Some city/states do this, limiting types and legal sources and making gun ownership as difficult as possible.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 4:18 pm

T18 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
910A wrote:


And given the location of Maryland Heights many natives now can make an assumption about your race, family income and of course the most import thing to natives, where you went to high school. The other silly thing with St Louis is that the City and County are not the same entity, that was a bit of a confusion for me when I moved here.


You could, but Maryland Heights has changed a lot in the last 30 years. And there are multiple high schools. Besides, most here already know most of my background anyways. Or at least the parts they care about. If you search topics you can even find my effective tax rate. I'm not afraid of where I came from or what I've become :)

Interesting to note, Lambert Airport is owned by the City. But it's an island away from the city. It was, at one point, basically empty land. That's urban sprawl for ya.
 
seb146
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:16 pm

There is one clinic in Missouri. If it closes, there will be zero in Missouri. I don't see what is factually incorrect about that.
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trpmb6
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 5:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
There is one clinic in Missouri. If it closes, there will be zero in Missouri. I don't see what is factually incorrect about that.


I think what is being misrepresented or perhaps misinterpreted is that this is somehow related to the wider Abortion law changes that are happening. But they are unrelated. This has more to do with Missouri's department of health and safety requesting the clinic to make 3 changes to items they've deemed "deficient" before they can renew their license. (As further proof of this, I just noticed the Mods have now combined this thread with the larger topic of abortion legislation going on in the various states - when again, the two topics are totally separate.)
 
seb146
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 6:12 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
There is one clinic in Missouri. If it closes, there will be zero in Missouri. I don't see what is factually incorrect about that.


I think what is being misrepresented or perhaps misinterpreted is that this is somehow related to the wider Abortion law changes that are happening. But they are unrelated. This has more to do with Missouri's department of health and safety requesting the clinic to make 3 changes to items they've deemed "deficient" before they can renew their license. (As further proof of this, I just noticed the Mods have now combined this thread with the larger topic of abortion legislation going on in the various states - when again, the two topics are totally separate.)


That third item is the health department interviewing who they claim are employees of Planned Parenthood but are, in fact, not employed by them but residents in training. The other two items, state mandated counseling and an additional pelvic exam, have already been approved by both PP and the state. And this last clinic open in Missouri is related to the more strict abortion laws being proposed by the Missouri Legislature.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/us/m ... n-law.html
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trpmb6
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Wed May 29, 2019 6:13 pm

seb146 wrote:

That third item is the health department interviewing who they claim are employees of Planned Parenthood but are, in fact, not employed by them but residents in training. The other two items, state mandated counseling and an additional pelvic exam, have already been approved by both PP and the state.


Exactly what I said upthread...
 
seb146
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Thu May 30, 2019 12:23 am

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

That third item is the health department interviewing who they claim are employees of Planned Parenthood but are, in fact, not employed by them but residents in training. The other two items, state mandated counseling and an additional pelvic exam, have already been approved by both PP and the state.


Exactly what I said upthread...


I had to google what the three items are. Maybe others wanted to know, so I thought I would summarize. You did mention a couple of times there are three items the health board was looking at. I just wanted clarification what they are.
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trpmb6
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Thu May 30, 2019 12:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

That third item is the health department interviewing who they claim are employees of Planned Parenthood but are, in fact, not employed by them but residents in training. The other two items, state mandated counseling and an additional pelvic exam, have already been approved by both PP and the state.


Exactly what I said upthread...


I had to google what the three items are. Maybe others wanted to know, so I thought I would summarize. You did mention a couple of times there are three items the health board was looking at. I just wanted clarification what they are.


I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.
 
seb146
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Thu May 30, 2019 4:43 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Exactly what I said upthread...


I had to google what the three items are. Maybe others wanted to know, so I thought I would summarize. You did mention a couple of times there are three items the health board was looking at. I just wanted clarification what they are.


I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.


It still could. Some of the interns are not listed as employees of the clinic but one side is saying they are. And, as was pointed out earlier, this is the only clinic in Missouri so, if it does close that will leave none. I get that some sources are shading the truth but that is the world we live in now. We do not have news or fact checking. And it sucks. I disagree with it completely.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Thu May 30, 2019 7:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
So, in the "land of the free", it's fine if a state bans all kinds of things because you can get them in the next state ?

You're fine with banning guns in some states too ?

Republicans: we're pro life
Also republicans: not those lives
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MaverickM11
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 31, 2019 3:27 am

aviationaware wrote:
I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.

Wonderful. Let's subject the father to the same punishment as the mother when an abortion occurs.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
TSS
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 31, 2019 3:50 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.

Wonderful. Let's subject the father to the same punishment as the mother when an abortion occurs.

I think what Aviationaware is hinting at is that the father is subject to the same responsibilities, e.g. child support, etc., as the mother when an abortion doesn't occur, so the father should have an equal say in whether or not an abortion does occur during an unwanted pregnancy according to the "we're all perfectly equal and there's no difference between men and women whatsoever" ideology expressed by many pro-choice advocates.
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aviationaware
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 31, 2019 4:30 am

TSS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I have. I fundamentally believe, and I am not a religious person AT ALL I might add, that abortion is wrong and saying it is the affected women's choice only is overly simplistic and inherently inconsistent to most other societal and economic ideas the people who are most pro choice advocate for.

Wonderful. Let's subject the father to the same punishment as the mother when an abortion occurs.

I think what Aviationaware is hinting at is that the father is subject to the same responsibilities, e.g. child support, etc., as the mother when an abortion doesn't occur, so the father should have an equal say in whether or not an abortion does occur during an unwanted pregnancy according to the "we're all perfectly equal and there's no difference between men and women whatsoever" ideology expressed by many pro-choice advocates.


I'm not saying that, although I am not entirely against that notion. In my eyes it matters very little whose ultimate decision the abortion is. Some things are just wrong and no person, neither alone nor jointly with others, should have the authority to decide that it's okay anyway.
I am not advocating for punishment of the mother, instead the medical personnel performing the abortion should be held accountable. An abortion is already a traumatic experience for anyone, no need to double down on that.
 
seb146
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Re: Anti-abortion wave across America

Fri May 31, 2019 4:25 pm

aviationaware wrote:
TSS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Wonderful. Let's subject the father to the same punishment as the mother when an abortion occurs.

I think what Aviationaware is hinting at is that the father is subject to the same responsibilities, e.g. child support, etc., as the mother when an abortion doesn't occur, so the father should have an equal say in whether or not an abortion does occur during an unwanted pregnancy according to the "we're all perfectly equal and there's no difference between men and women whatsoever" ideology expressed by many pro-choice advocates.


I'm not saying that, although I am not entirely against that notion. In my eyes it matters very little whose ultimate decision the abortion is. Some things are just wrong and no person, neither alone nor jointly with others, should have the authority to decide that it's okay anyway.
I am not advocating for punishment of the mother, instead the medical personnel performing the abortion should be held accountable. An abortion is already a traumatic experience for anyone, no need to double down on that.


Why? If a woman is raped and the rapist says he wants the child, why put her through the pain of every day for nine months knowing this act of violence happened? Knowing the child will be given to a violent person.

Again, I do not agree with abortion being used as birth control but it is none of my business in the first place so why should I demand a woman not have safe access?
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stl07
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:46 am

And, as expected, the facility that was supposed to close didn't. A local judge gave it a temporary operation extention meaning all the media coverage about day 0 was wrong. Missouri didn't become the first abortion free state.
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stl07
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:50 am

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Exactly what I said upthread...


I had to google what the three items are. Maybe others wanted to know, so I thought I would summarize. You did mention a couple of times there are three items the health board was looking at. I just wanted clarification what they are.


I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.

Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.
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seb146
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Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:28 am

stl07 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I had to google what the three items are. Maybe others wanted to know, so I thought I would summarize. You did mention a couple of times there are three items the health board was looking at. I just wanted clarification what they are.


I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.

Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.


How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?

Tell me again why the government needs to be involved in this.
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Magog
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:05 am

seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.

Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.


How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?.

This is patently false. It will not be a federal crime to get an abortion in Illinois if the Missouri clinic shuts down.
 
seb146
Posts: 19979
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:14 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.


How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?.

This is patently false. It will not be a federal crime to get an abortion in Illinois if the Missouri clinic shuts down.


At least one state adds on additional penalties for women who cross state lines for an abortion for any reason. Seems something draconian they would do.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:

How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?.

This is patently false. It will not be a federal crime to get an abortion in Illinois if the Missouri clinic shuts down.


At least one state adds on additional penalties for women who cross state lines for an abortion for any reason. Seems something draconian they would do.....

Let me repeat. Your statement that women will commit a federal offense if they travel from Missouri to Illinois to get an abortion was a lie. Period.
 
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stl07
Posts: 1415
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:58 am

seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I just think the whole thing is blown out of proportion. The two parties were negotiating on how to handle what the state viewed as inadequacies in care. It only got elevated to bring a national spotlight to drive a narrative. That clinic was never going to be shut down.

Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.


How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?

Tell me again why the government needs to be involved in this.

We only have one clinic in MO, and it is in STL. So stop sounding like the uneducated talking heads on TV.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
seb146
Posts: 19979
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Updated: Media Spinning MO abortion "ban"

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:14 am

stl07 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Based on today's ruling, you were exactly right. This did not need days of primetime coverage. All the hysteria about an abortion free state was just that, and as I pointed out, even if the facility closed, abortions are just a few minutes away from the currently operating facility in il.


How far is the closest clinic to Springfield? Minutes? It is a hard enough decision but women now have to face a decision if they want to commit a federal offense by crossing state lines for a horrible choice?

Tell me again why the government needs to be involved in this.

We only have one clinic in MO, and it is in STL. So stop sounding like the uneducated talking heads on TV.


Right. And if that one clinic closes, you will have none in Missouri. Stop brushing this off like it is nothing. You have one, take away that one away and there are none.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
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