User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 7391
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:52 pm

Already Democrats are coming out the gate by voicing support for eliminating the Hyde Amendment which bans use of federal funds for abortions.

Why is this so controversial? I was having a discussion where I stated that I support a woman's right to choose but that if she chooses to have an abortion it should be on their own dime. As expected, I was called names because I don't support what the progressive left supports. To make matters worse, I find myself finding a candidate after Biden flip-flopped on his statements for the Hyde Amendment.

Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure? I say mostly because there are instances where the fetus can put the mother's life at risk or the fetus has a genetic condition where it's best to terminate the pregnancy than put the newborn to suffer through nearly impossible odds of survival.

It's like transgenders requesting federal funds for hormone therapy, visually impaired people asking for federal funds for Lasik, and morbidly obese people asking funds for gastric bypass surgery. Unless your health is severely affected by not having any of the treatments, I don't see why you HAVE to have federal funds for this.

Am I missing something here?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:42 pm

Some people can not afford these things on their own and their states refuse to help. This mainly is a problem among minorities in heavily Republican states like Alabama and Missouri.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3391
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:53 pm

And, “life’s not fair”.

GF
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 8871
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:53 pm

It comes down to all the state laws that are making abortions extremely difficult to obtain for those that are financially challenged(poor). Here is a good breakdown, but it comes down to the fact that due to the recent state laws, it really comes down to the federal government to provide safe and legal abortion clinics in certain states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... b6526d83f6

I hate the idea of federal funding being used, but what good is federal funding for extreme cases ( which hyde allows) if all the sites are shut down.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11665
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:01 pm

Are there "hyde amendments" banning the spending of federal funds for all the things you listed, einsteinboricua?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
alfa164
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:03 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Already Democrats are coming out the gate by voicing support for eliminating the Hyde Amendment which bans use of federal funds for abortions.
Why is this so controversial? I was having a discussion where I stated that I support a woman's right to choose but that if she chooses to have an abortion it should be on their own dime. As expected, I was called names because I don't support what the progressive left supports. To make matters worse, I find myself finding a candidate after Biden flip-flopped on his statements for the Hyde Amendment.
Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure? I say mostly because there are instances where the fetus can put the mother's life at risk or the fetus has a genetic condition where it's best to terminate the pregnancy than put the newborn to suffer through nearly impossible odds of survival.
It's like transgenders requesting federal funds for hormone therapy, visually impaired people asking for federal funds for Lasik, and morbidly obese people asking funds for gastric bypass surgery. Unless your health is severely affected by not having any of the treatments, I don't see why you HAVE to have federal funds for this.
Am I missing something here?


I am sure the bigger issue is that many federally-funded or federally-supported medical programs, i.e. Medicare, Medicade, and others that offer support for less-than-wealthy-beneficiaries, allow for some level of assistance in paying for any other medical procedure. This amendment was purely politically-motivated, and is viewed by many as an intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship.

Remember, there is some level of federal assistance for almost every other medical procedure - elective or not - without the government telling the doctor or patient what is best. Only when the topic of abortion comes up does the Federal government interfere and rear its ugly head.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 7391
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
Are there "hyde amendments" banning the spending of federal funds for all the things you listed, einsteinboricua?

Don't know. I'm just drawing parallels. A health insurance plan here will give you a discount on prescription glasses, but not Lasik. It may cover nutritional assistance, but not gastric bypass surgery.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3038
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 pm

Honey, let the poor women have abortions. Lifts them potentially out of poverty and they have more control over their lives.

I’m surprised the far right doesn’t encourage it already to keep those “dark ones” in check.
It’s right up their (back) alley!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17417
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:29 pm

johnboy wrote:
Honey, let the poor women have abortions. Lifts them potentially out of poverty and they have more control over their lives.

I’m surprised the far right doesn’t encourage it already to keep those “dark ones” in check.
It’s right up their (back) alley!

Yeah you'd think the same people pushing segregation because it's in duh bible would be more receptive to the poor being able to control their family planning. Frankly I think the government should ensure anyone can get free contraception no questions asked--it'd be the best return on investment taxes could buy for the evyl welfare state.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1672
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
Some people can not afford these things on their own and their states refuse to help. This mainly is a problem among minorities in heavily Republican states like Alabama and Missouri.


You know I am not a religious dude I am an atheist actually but I am not a fan of abortion I know it happens and I don't want to take it to the extremes the republicans are at now and I don't like the extremes the democrats are at either..Abortion at full term is murder I don't care how you want to slice it..Unless the life of the mother is in danger there is no reason for that. So that being said why should my tax dollars pay for poor people to have abortions? We have so many options for birth control now and contrary to the religious right I would support tax payer funded birth control before tax payer funded abortion. Abortion should not be an easy out for poor planning and sloppy sex. Abortion should be a last resort not the first.
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:01 am

Doesn’t Planned Parenthood have sliding fees based on income? If so, the argument that the poor can’t get an abortion without the government paying for it seems specious.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1035
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:02 am

American conservatives are weird. Signed, the rest of the Western World.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9374
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:06 am

alfa164 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Already Democrats are coming out the gate by voicing support for eliminating the Hyde Amendment which bans use of federal funds for abortions.
Why is this so controversial? I was having a discussion where I stated that I support a woman's right to choose but that if she chooses to have an abortion it should be on their own dime. As expected, I was called names because I don't support what the progressive left supports. To make matters worse, I find myself finding a candidate after Biden flip-flopped on his statements for the Hyde Amendment.
Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure? I say mostly because there are instances where the fetus can put the mother's life at risk or the fetus has a genetic condition where it's best to terminate the pregnancy than put the newborn to suffer through nearly impossible odds of survival.
It's like transgenders requesting federal funds for hormone therapy, visually impaired people asking for federal funds for Lasik, and morbidly obese people asking funds for gastric bypass surgery. Unless your health is severely affected by not having any of the treatments, I don't see why you HAVE to have federal funds for this.
Am I missing something here?


I am sure the bigger issue is that many federally-funded or federally-supported medical programs, i.e. Medicare, Medicade, and others that offer support for less-than-wealthy-beneficiaries, allow for some level of assistance in paying for any other medical procedure. This amendment was purely politically-motivated, and is viewed by many as an intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship.

Remember, there is some level of federal assistance for almost every other medical procedure - elective or not - without the government telling the doctor or patient what is best. Only when the topic of abortion comes up does the Federal government interfere and rear its ugly head.


That is true, but Medicare with rare exceptions will not cover elective procedures. Non-medical abortions should therefore not be covered by federal funds, in all fairness.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
alfa164
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:49 am

Aaron747 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Already Democrats are coming out the gate by voicing support for eliminating the Hyde Amendment which bans use of federal funds for abortions.
Why is this so controversial? I was having a discussion where I stated that I support a woman's right to choose but that if she chooses to have an abortion it should be on their own dime. As expected, I was called names because I don't support what the progressive left supports. To make matters worse, I find myself finding a candidate after Biden flip-flopped on his statements for the Hyde Amendment.
Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure? I say mostly because there are instances where the fetus can put the mother's life at risk or the fetus has a genetic condition where it's best to terminate the pregnancy than put the newborn to suffer through nearly impossible odds of survival.
It's like transgenders requesting federal funds for hormone therapy, visually impaired people asking for federal funds for Lasik, and morbidly obese people asking funds for gastric bypass surgery. Unless your health is severely affected by not having any of the treatments, I don't see why you HAVE to have federal funds for this.
Am I missing something here?


I am sure the bigger issue is that many federally-funded or federally-supported medical programs, i.e. Medicare, Medicade, and others that offer support for less-than-wealthy-beneficiaries, allow for some level of assistance in paying for any other medical procedure. This amendment was purely politically-motivated, and is viewed by many as an intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship.

Remember, there is some level of federal assistance for almost every other medical procedure - elective or not - without the government telling the doctor or patient what is best. Only when the topic of abortion comes up does the Federal government interfere and rear its ugly head.


That is true, but Medicare with rare exceptions will not cover elective procedures. Non-medical abortions should therefore not be covered by federal funds, in all fairness.


Well... I have never heard of a "non-medical abortion" - other than being pushed down the stairs or something...
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9374
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:30 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

I am sure the bigger issue is that many federally-funded or federally-supported medical programs, i.e. Medicare, Medicade, and others that offer support for less-than-wealthy-beneficiaries, allow for some level of assistance in paying for any other medical procedure. This amendment was purely politically-motivated, and is viewed by many as an intrusion into the doctor-patient relationship.

Remember, there is some level of federal assistance for almost every other medical procedure - elective or not - without the government telling the doctor or patient what is best. Only when the topic of abortion comes up does the Federal government interfere and rear its ugly head.


That is true, but Medicare with rare exceptions will not cover elective procedures. Non-medical abortions should therefore not be covered by federal funds, in all fairness.


Well... I have never heard of a "non-medical abortion" - other than being pushed down the stairs or something...


I’m talking about elective abortion procedures, obviously, which are different from the ones done out of medical necessity. The latter should be covered by public funds if the patient is indigent, not the former.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:08 am

stratosphere wrote:
You know I am not a religious dude I am an atheist actually but I am not a fan of abortion I know it happens and I don't want to take it to the extremes the republicans are at now and I don't like the extremes the democrats are at either..Abortion at full term is murder I don't care how you want to slice it..Unless the life of the mother is in danger there is no reason for that.


And that is the only reason it is allowed, IIRC. "Late term abortion" is a right wing boogyman.

stratosphere wrote:
So that being said why should my tax dollars pay for poor people to have abortions? We have so many options for birth control now and contrary to the religious right I would support tax payer funded birth control before tax payer funded abortion. Abortion should not be an easy out for poor planning and sloppy sex. Abortion should be a last resort not the first.


The right wing mantra of "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em"? The pill fails. Condoms break. Women are raped. I don't have a problem keeping abortion safe and legal.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11665
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:15 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Are there "hyde amendments" banning the spending of federal funds for all the things you listed, einsteinboricua?

Don't know. I'm just drawing parallels. A health insurance plan here will give you a discount on prescription glasses, but not Lasik. It may cover nutritional assistance, but not gastric bypass surgery.


I'm also drawing parallels. Clearly abortion is singled out.

Do health insurance plans cover it ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:38 am

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
You know I am not a religious dude I am an atheist actually but I am not a fan of abortion I know it happens and I don't want to take it to the extremes the republicans are at now and I don't like the extremes the democrats are at either..Abortion at full term is murder I don't care how you want to slice it..Unless the life of the mother is in danger there is no reason for that.


And that is the only reason it is allowed, IIRC. "Late term abortion" is a right wing boogyman.

That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this. The needle has definitely shifted. That’ll show Trump! Or something...
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4080
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:53 am

It is controversial because a portion of the American public believes their taxes should fund only government spending they approve of, which is not only anti-democratic but impractical. The Hyde Amendment was passed to pacify the religious conservative portion of that public, even though the share of their taxes going to abortion funding could not be counted in whole cents.

It remains controversial because there have been multiple failed attempts in the past few years to expand its reach by updating the definition of public funds, such as including subsidies paid to insurance companies on behalf of Obamacare policy holders, or preventing federal employers from even tangentially funding abortions.

Aaron747 wrote:
I’m talking about elective abortion procedures, obviously, which are different from the ones done out of medical necessity. The latter should be covered by public funds if the patient is indigent, not the former.

Does rape fall under medical necessity? Wondering as the Hyde Amendment specifically does not apply to abortions as a result of rape or incest, in addition to medically-justified abortions.

Magog wrote:
That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this. The needle has definitely shifted. That’ll show Trump! Or something...

Yawn... seriously, this still has legs?
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3706
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:09 pm

Magog wrote:
That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this.
You keep telling us you are a democrat, but you do not seem to know democrat positions all that well.
Attamottamotta!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:27 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Magog wrote:
That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this.
You keep telling us you are a democrat, but you do not seem to know democrat positions all that well.

Times are changing fast, my friend.

www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/democrat ... treme/amp/
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9374
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:30 pm

blueflyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
I’m talking about elective abortion procedures, obviously, which are different from the ones done out of medical necessity. The latter should be covered by public funds if the patient is indigent, not the former.

Does rape fall under medical necessity? Wondering as the Hyde Amendment specifically does not apply to abortions as a result of rape or incest, in addition to medically-justified abortions.


I don't see any reason it wouldn't - any form of violence is a traumatic event requiring medical treatment.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:32 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
You know I am not a religious dude I am an atheist actually but I am not a fan of abortion I know it happens and I don't want to take it to the extremes the republicans are at now and I don't like the extremes the democrats are at either..Abortion at full term is murder I don't care how you want to slice it..Unless the life of the mother is in danger there is no reason for that.


And that is the only reason it is allowed, IIRC. "Late term abortion" is a right wing boogyman.

That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this. The needle has definitely shifted. That’ll show Trump! Or something...


You cite no sources and point to a political party that does not exist.

We are done.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:41 pm

seb146 wrote:
Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And that is the only reason it is allowed, IIRC. "Late term abortion" is a right wing boogyman.

That’s no longer true. Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever. The leadership of the Democrat party supports this. The needle has definitely shifted. That’ll show Trump! Or something...


You cite no sources and point to a political party that does not exist.

We are done.

Read the article that I linked to a couple of posts above.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 7391
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:01 pm

seb146 wrote:
The right wing mantra of "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em"? The pill fails. Condoms break. Women are raped. I don't have a problem keeping abortion safe and legal.

Normally, I agree with you, but aborting a tiny embryo is different from aborting a fetus. The first trimester is time enough to know if you're pregnant or not. That is way different from noticing a bump and waiting until 8 months before saying "I don't want it anymore". I can support assistance with aborting an embryo; I can support a late term abortion if the mother's life is in peril or if it's found out that the newborn will have a serious genetic disorder. But waiting until the last trimester and expecting federal dollars to come in to support your abortion? Sorry. I don't agree with that.

blueflyer wrote:
Does rape fall under medical necessity? Wondering as the Hyde Amendment specifically does not apply to abortions as a result of rape or incest, in addition to medically-justified abortions.
It would, and I would support amending the Hyde Amendment to allow use of funds to assist rape victims, provided they detect a pregnancy early on.

Magog wrote:
Blue states are passing laws that allow for abortion right up until delivery for any reason whatsoever.

Whether women will actually wait until the week before they're due to abort a fetus is unknown. Only 7 states have no limit on when to get an abortion. The only thing I've seen is blue states passing laws that reassert and reassure the right of women to choose to have an abortion. The map below shows that abortion limits aren't really a blue vs red state.
Image

Aesma wrote:
I'm also drawing parallels. Clearly abortion is singled out.

Do health insurance plans cover it ?

Looking at the terms of my insurance, there's nothing that points to abortions explicitly. As I mentioned, it's likely that the insurance doesn't cover it or if it does, it just negotiates a flat rate.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:14 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The right wing mantra of "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em"? The pill fails. Condoms break. Women are raped. I don't have a problem keeping abortion safe and legal.

Normally, I agree with you, but aborting a tiny embryo is different from aborting a fetus. The first trimester is time enough to know if you're pregnant or not. That is way different from noticing a bump and waiting until 8 months before saying "I don't want it anymore". I can support assistance with aborting an embryo; I can support a late term abortion if the mother's life is in peril or if it's found out that the newborn will have a serious genetic disorder. But waiting until the last trimester and expecting federal dollars to come in to support your abortion? Sorry. I don't agree with that.


Late term abortions are not about "meh... don't wanna" but more about what you list: serious complications. There are some shady doctors out there who will cater to women who simply decide at 8 1/2 months they no longer want to be pregnant. And they should have their licence revoked on the spot. Abortion should be kept safe and legal and never used as a substitute for condoms or the pill or poor decisions. It should also not be up to the government to tell women what they can and cannot do.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Topic Author
Posts: 7391
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:19 pm

seb146 wrote:
It should also not be up to the government to tell women what they can and cannot do.

I agree, and as such, it shouldn't also give funds for this either.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Zentraedi
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:40 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure?


Easily answered with 3 letters: ROI
 
Airstud
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:15 am

The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 13014
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 am

I control my body, so should women be able to control theirs. Tax cuts for the wealthy but nothing for women and their well being, absurd. Women will have to step up more than they do now.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:13 pm

Airstud wrote:
The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.


I think you answered your own question: Republicans are funded by self-proclaimed "Christians". They fight hard for "religious exemptions" for everything from sex ed to contraception to selling cakes to leasing property. I agree that religion should be left out of the whole equation.

Men have to step up too. Birth control can not rely only on one person when it takes two to make a baby.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Airstud
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.


I think you answered your own question:


What question?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17417
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:22 pm

Zentraedi wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Here's the thing: why should tax dollars be used for abortions when it's mostly an elective procedure?


Easily answered with 3 letters: ROI

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: It'd be hard to think of tax dollars with a higher ROI both in terms of money ultimately saved, poverty reduction, and upward mobility
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:01 pm

Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.


I think you answered your own question:


What question?


The reason the Hyde Amendment exists in the first place. Republicans demanded it. I know it was not your question specifically but that is the answer.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1672
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:20 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
I control my body, so should women be able to control theirs. Tax cuts for the wealthy but nothing for women and their well being, absurd. Women will have to step up more than they do now.


Our bodies as men are totally different from a pregnant female.. Yes the female is the vehicle to which a human is born and as such it is not her body alone after a certain point in my opinion. In late term pregnancy the life of fetus has to be considered there is a reason they charge someone with 2 counts of murder if it involves a pregnant woman. I am pro choice but with limits again the rabid pro lifers want their cake and eat it too. You cannot be against contraception and totally ban abortion. I see a total middle ground that no one wants to seem to go to. I would totally be for contraception being federally funded it's certainly better than having a child you are not capable of raising. Also to Seb I am from the can't feed em don't breed em crowd.
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:38 pm

stratosphere wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
I control my body, so should women be able to control theirs. Tax cuts for the wealthy but nothing for women and their well being, absurd. Women will have to step up more than they do now.


Our bodies as men are totally different from a pregnant female.. Yes the female is the vehicle to which a human is born and as such it is not her body alone after a certain point in my opinion. In late term pregnancy the life of fetus has to be considered there is a reason they charge someone with 2 counts of murder if it involves a pregnant woman. I am pro choice but with limits again the rabid pro lifers want their cake and eat it too. You cannot be against contraception and totally ban abortion. I see a total middle ground that no one wants to seem to go to. I would totally be for contraception being federally funded it's certainly better than having a child you are not capable of raising. Also to Seb I am from the can't feed em don't breed em crowd.


And I am too. Contraception fails, women get raped. Abortion must be safe and legal. Not every woman will use it or wants to and that is great. I am all for federally funding abortion, contraception, sex ed, and all of it. All those options must be on the table even if women do not take advantage of all of them. We need to stop pretending this is someone else's problem This is OUR problem. If corporations do not want to fund reproductive health and contraception because of religious reasons, they should also not be allowed to take advantage of other federal programs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Magog
Posts: 850
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
If corporations do not want to fund reproductive health and contraception because of religious reasons, they should also not be allowed to take advantage of other federal programs.

That would be a clear violation of the First Amendment.
 
mham001
Posts: 5519
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:22 am

stratosphere wrote:
In late term pregnancy the life of fetus has to be considered there is a reason they charge someone with 2 counts of murder if it involves a pregnant woman.


This is an extremely important precedence, even in pro abortion regions, they hypocritically call it murder when the mother is killed. I've never heard anybody justify that.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9374
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:42 am

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.


I think you answered your own question: Republicans are funded by self-proclaimed "Christians". They fight hard for "religious exemptions" for everything from sex ed to contraception to selling cakes to leasing property. I agree that religion should be left out of the whole equation.

Men have to step up too. Birth control can not rely only on one person when it takes two to make a baby.


Men are not going to ‘step it up’ - some of us were obviously raised right, but everywhere I look, in every country and I visit, ‘fuckboy’ culture is definitely alive and well.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:50 am

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If corporations do not want to fund reproductive health and contraception because of religious reasons, they should also not be allowed to take advantage of other federal programs.

That would be a clear violation of the First Amendment.


No. It is a clear violation of separating church and state. Corporations are NOT people, contrary to what my fellow Republicans say.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:52 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
The compromise I would aks for is that whatever additional money the far lefties want the government to allot for elective yes ELECTIVE abortions, be instead spent on sex education & contraception - you know, the kind of thing that severely lessens "demand" for abortions. Yes the Religious Right will holler and whine about tax dollars being used for something as un-Christian as contraception but I'd be OK with gorilla-taping their mouths shut.


I think you answered your own question: Republicans are funded by self-proclaimed "Christians". They fight hard for "religious exemptions" for everything from sex ed to contraception to selling cakes to leasing property. I agree that religion should be left out of the whole equation.

Men have to step up too. Birth control can not rely only on one person when it takes two to make a baby.


Men are not going to ‘step it up’ - some of us were obviously raised right, but everywhere I look, in every country and I visit, ‘fuckboy’ culture is definitely alive and well.


There seems to be a culture of "I can't get a girl pregnant" among some men. Who was the elected official who said a woman's body could shut down an unwanted pregnancy? That still has me shaking my head. This attitude also explains why STI cases are on the rise.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Airstud
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:33 am

seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I think you answered your own question: Republicans are funded by self-proclaimed "Christians". They fight hard for "religious exemptions" for everything from sex ed to contraception to selling cakes to leasing property. I agree that religion should be left out of the whole equation.

Men have to step up too. Birth control can not rely only on one person when it takes two to make a baby.


Men are not going to ‘step it up’ - some of us were obviously raised right, but everywhere I look, in every country and I visit, ‘fuckboy’ culture is definitely alive and well.


There seems to be a culture of "I can't get a girl pregnant" among some men. Who was the elected official who said a woman's body could shut down an unwanted pregnancy? That still has me shaking my head. This attitude also explains why STI cases are on the rise.


He didn't get elected.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 am

Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Men are not going to ‘step it up’ - some of us were obviously raised right, but everywhere I look, in every country and I visit, ‘fuckboy’ culture is definitely alive and well.


There seems to be a culture of "I can't get a girl pregnant" among some men. Who was the elected official who said a woman's body could shut down an unwanted pregnancy? That still has me shaking my head. This attitude also explains why STI cases are on the rise.


He didn't get elected.


But you know who I am talking about. This kind of thinking seems to be mainly on the right, with regard to female reproductive issues.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9374
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:55 am

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:

There seems to be a culture of "I can't get a girl pregnant" among some men. Who was the elected official who said a woman's body could shut down an unwanted pregnancy? That still has me shaking my head. This attitude also explains why STI cases are on the rise.


He didn't get elected.


But you know who I am talking about. This kind of thinking seems to be mainly on the right, with regard to female reproductive issues.


Oh no - careless thinking is not limited to right wingers who believe biological fairy tales. We have more info than ever before and people are still careless as ever. Talked to a guy last year in Japan who was pretty apolitical but stated he dated Japanese women because ‘they hardly care if I wrap up or not, and will do anything’. Classy.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Airstud
Posts: 4630
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:

He didn't get elected.


But you know who I am talking about. This kind of thinking seems to be mainly on the right, with regard to female reproductive issues.


Oh no - careless thinking is not limited to right wingers who believe biological fairy tales. We have more info than ever before and people are still careless as ever. Talked to a guy last year in Japan who was pretty apolitical but stated he dated Japanese women because ‘they hardly care if I wrap up or not, and will do anything’. Classy.


Well that doesn't prove that he's not a right winger...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:39 am

It's very easy.

1) Planned Parenthood performs 50% of all abortions in the United States.
2) Planned Parenthood finances hard left Democrats.
3) When the government pays, prices rise.
4) More money in Planned Parenthoods coffers = more money to give away to hard left Democrats.

This very logical causal chain causes embarrassing flip-flops like Biden's.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 2619
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:15 pm

roe v wade is what keeps America a right of center country
 
mham001
Posts: 5519
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:03 pm

aviationaware wrote:
It's very easy.

1) Planned Parenthood performs 50% of all abortions in the United States.
2) Planned Parenthood finances hard left Democrats.
3) When the government pays, prices rise.
4) More money in Planned Parenthoods coffers = more money to give away to hard left Democrats.

This very logical causal chain causes embarrassing flip-flops like Biden's.


Planned Parenthood also receives approximately 60% of its funding from the government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_P ... od#Funding
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:05 pm

aviationaware wrote:
It's very easy.

1) Planned Parenthood performs 50% of all abortions in the United States.


Because of Republican's religious objections, Planned Parenthood is not allowed to perform abortions at all using any government funds.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Why is the Hyde Amendment so controversial?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:07 pm

mham001 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's very easy.

1) Planned Parenthood performs 50% of all abortions in the United States.
2) Planned Parenthood finances hard left Democrats.
3) When the government pays, prices rise.
4) More money in Planned Parenthoods coffers = more money to give away to hard left Democrats.

This very logical causal chain causes embarrassing flip-flops like Biden's.


Planned Parenthood also receives approximately 60% of its funding from the government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_P ... od#Funding


And they can only use that government funding for things like pelvic exams, STI testing, mammograms, but not abortion. It would also be illegal for them to give money to candidates, IIRC.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aesma, Classa64, exaz, GDB, johns624, melpax, OceanATC, PPVRA, stratclub and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos