steveinbc
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Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 pm

BBC News reports that:
Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador has pledged to use profits from the sale of his presidential plane to fund efforts to curb illegal migration.

Seems that Mexico has been hit by significant numbers of Guatemalans and Venezuelans attempting to gain entry into Mexico over the last several months.

The president apparently only uses commercial flights. Seems like a security nightmare to me especially if he goes after the cartels
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KLDC10
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:35 pm

He pledged to sell it during his campaign, although selling it to fund efforts to reduce illegal migration is a new angle.

It certainly is a security nightmare and it's a short-sighted decision - a President requires secure, flexible travel arrangements.
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Spar
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 pm

My understanding is that that 787 is one of the first off the line and is carrying a lot of extra weight so it is going to be hard to sell and won't bring in much money (comparatively).
 
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Aesma
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:45 am

There was a thread about selling it months ago indeed, and I remember people thought it would be a tough sell.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:39 am

KLDC10 wrote:
He pledged to sell it during his campaign, although selling it to fund efforts to reduce illegal migration is a new angle.

It certainly is a security nightmare and it's a short-sighted decision - a President requires secure, flexible travel arrangements.


I have a rather hard time recalling any head of state being assassinated while using public means of transportation. And many do...

You even get secure communication on commercial flights these days, for flexibility there are plenty of business jet operators....

While certainly useful to have government jets, I dont think it is strictly necessary, nor cost efficient.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
seb146
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:47 pm

Spar wrote:
My understanding is that that 787 is one of the first off the line and is carrying a lot of extra weight so it is going to be hard to sell and won't bring in much money (comparatively).


I can think of one guy who golfs a lot who would be happy to pay millions over asking and cheer that he got the best deal ever....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:58 pm

I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scake problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
He pledged to sell it during his campaign, although selling it to fund efforts to reduce illegal migration is a new angle.

It certainly is a security nightmare and it's a short-sighted decision - a President requires secure, flexible travel arrangements.


I have a rather hard time recalling any head of state being assassinated while using public means of transportation. And many do...

You even get secure communication on commercial flights these days, for flexibility there are plenty of business jet operators....

While certainly useful to have government jets, I dont think it is strictly necessary, nor cost efficient.

Best regards
Thomas

And in many ways it can be more secure due to the volume of commercial air travel. If so desired the flight could have minimal notice and there is no easy way to tell a flight reserved for such use from other traffic.

Tugg
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Ken777
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
I can think of one guy who golfs a lot who would be happy to pay millions over asking and cheer that he got the best deal ever....


Deadbeat Donald won't be able to buy it. His free cash will crash after the House and the Courts finish with him. And he wouldn't be able to Gert leave from Leavenworth to go fly somewhere.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:31 pm

Francoflier wrote:
I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scake problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe UN treaties state asylum seekers are required to apply for asylum in the first country they reach. Or something to that effect.

It's also much easier to stem the flow at Mexico's comparatively narrower border than at the US southern border.
 
mham001
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:46 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scake problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe UN treaties state asylum seekers are required to apply for asylum in the first country they reach. Or something to that effect.

It's also much easier to stem the flow at Mexico's comparatively narrower border than at the US southern border.


I read there has been a surge of Africans showing up at the Mexican border.

https://www.newsweek.com/border-patrol- ... er-1442748
 
LMP737
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:07 pm

Spar wrote:
My understanding is that that 787 is one of the first off the line and is carrying a lot of extra weight so it is going to be hard to sell and won't bring in much money (comparatively).


No airline is going to want it. Best bet is someone who wants a VIP widebody on the cheap.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:53 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scale problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe UN treaties state asylum seekers are required to apply for asylum in the first country they reach. Or something to that effect.

It's also much easier to stem the flow at Mexico's comparatively narrower border than at the US southern border.


True. But trying to shift the blame to Mexico, a country that has much less means to deal with it, in hope that they'll fix the problem for the US is illusory.
People are going to the US, not Mexico. It behooves the US to do something about it to stem the flow. Trying to blame Mexico and let them deal with the issue alone is stupid and counterproductive. The proper way to go about it is through cooperation and diplomacy, by helping Mexico deal with its own border problem.
On a larger scale, helping with the economic and political stabilisation of Central America would go a long way.

Too complex a solution for the current administration, of course, which prefers simplistic one-liners and one-page agreements because, you know, the Trump guy isn't much of a reader...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
mham001
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:12 am

Francoflier wrote:

Too complex a solution for the current administration, of course, which prefers simplistic one-liners and one-page agreements because, you know, the Trump guy isn't much of a reader...


Hmm, so what was the reason previous administrations were unable to get a handle on it? Notably, include the one you like, since you seem to believe yourself qualified to comment on US domestic issues....
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:28 am

Francoflier wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scale problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe UN treaties state asylum seekers are required to apply for asylum in the first country they reach. Or something to that effect.

It's also much easier to stem the flow at Mexico's comparatively narrower border than at the US southern border.


True. But trying to shift the blame to Mexico, a country that has much less means to deal with it, in hope that they'll fix the problem for the US is illusory.
People are going to the US, not Mexico. It behooves the US to do something about it to stem the flow. Trying to blame Mexico and let them deal with the issue alone is stupid and counterproductive. The proper way to go about it is through cooperation and diplomacy, by helping Mexico deal with its own border problem.
On a larger scale, helping with the economic and political stabilisation of Central America would go a long way.

Too complex a solution for the current administration, of course, which prefers simplistic one-liners and one-page agreements because, you know, the Trump guy isn't much of a reader...

Wait. I'm calling foul. This exact issue is part of what is blowing up the EU the past few years. The poorer border nations allowing migrants through to the more prosperous nations and those nations calling them out for doing that.

Now I know I'm not there and there is more to it than that but it is a very real issue.

Tugg
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Francoflier
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:43 am

mham001 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

Too complex a solution for the current administration, of course, which prefers simplistic one-liners and one-page agreements because, you know, the Trump guy isn't much of a reader...


Hmm, so what was the reason previous administrations were unable to get a handle on it? Notably, include the one you like, since you seem to believe yourself qualified to comment on US domestic issues....


Handle on it?

Illegal immigration into the US has been declining since 2007. The decline started during the end of Bush Jr's term and followed through both of Obama's terms. It is still ongoing.

Illegal immigration may be an issue, but it is not a bigger issue than it ever was. The main difference between now and 10 years ago is that it is an easy target for populists. Blaming the immigrants is always an easy way to foster anger and gather votes.

Pragmatism has long left the scene in US politics.
However, just like many complex problems, there are no easy solutions to illegal immigrations. First of all, one would need to determine how much of an issue it really is, i.e. how much it benefits society versus how much it costs it. The answer might surprise you...
But answers can only come from there. Knee jerk reactions and simplistic approaches will not work.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:35 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
I think it's been on sale for a while now, and whatever they'd get for it would do precious little to help the large scake problem of northbound migration from southern countries, in which Mexico bears little responsibility in the first place.

Me thinks that's just a bit of clever PR to assuage the tantrum of 'El Gringo Loco' up North... A bit like jiggling keys in front of a newborn.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe UN treaties state asylum seekers are required to apply for asylum in the first country they reach. Or something to that effect.

It's also much easier to stem the flow at Mexico's comparatively narrower border than at the US southern border.


First safe country. Is Mexico considered safe ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Francoflier wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

Too complex a solution for the current administration, of course, which prefers simplistic one-liners and one-page agreements because, you know, the Trump guy isn't much of a reader...


Hmm, so what was the reason previous administrations were unable to get a handle on it? Notably, include the one you like, since you seem to believe yourself qualified to comment on US domestic issues....


Handle on it?

Illegal immigration into the US has been declining since 2007. The decline started during the end of Bush Jr's term and followed through both of Obama's terms. It is still ongoing.

Illegal immigration may be an issue, but it is not a bigger issue than it ever was. The main difference between now and 10 years ago is that it is an easy target for populists. Blaming the immigrants is always an easy way to foster anger and gather votes.

Pragmatism has long left the scene in US politics.
However, just like many complex problems, there are no easy solutions to illegal immigrations. First of all, one would need to determine how much of an issue it really is, i.e. how much it benefits society versus how much it costs it. The answer might surprise you...
But answers can only come from there. Knee jerk reactions and simplistic approaches will not work.


Calling foul on this one myself. Illegal immigration post 2007 started to decline for economic reasons.

Now that the economy is on fire again it's seen a sharp rise. You need to compare today's numbers against those past numbers. What we're seeing today, right now, is much higher (and much different) than what we saw in the past. Pre Bush era, illegal immigrants were mostly working class single men. Now we are seeing family units. It's an important distinction and the cause is well known, the Flores agreement.

If anything it just shows that they aren't true asylum seekers. It's the economy stupid.

To Aesma's point. Mexico is safe. What isn't safe is these people paying the cartel's and bolstering their hold in Mexico to get to the US.
 
mham001
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:13 pm

Francoflier wrote:

Illegal immigration may be an issue, but it is not a bigger issue than it ever was. The main difference between now and 10 years ago is that it is an easy target for populists. Blaming the immigrants is always an easy way to foster anger and gather votes.

Pragmatism has long left the scene in US politics.



Gee, maybe because the cumulative effects began to show? Entire industries became swamped with illegals and deflated wages of Americans all around. I'd go on but why do you really care?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:17 pm

So why isn't Trump doing anything about the people that employ these immigrants ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Tugger
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
So why isn't Trump doing anything about the people that employ these immigrants ?

Well for one, it's OK to hire and employ immigrants. So....

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Spar
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
Entire industries became swamped with illegals and deflated wages of Americans all around.

The reason "Entire industries became swamped with illegals" is that's the way Republicans wanted it: cheap labor, holding labor prices down. The "illegal problem" could be solved easily, painlessly and at low cost simply by making it illegal to hire illegals. I'm not talking about the make believe laws we have now; I'm talking about laws that would put employers of illegals in prison and confiscate businesses.

The way Trump is going about it is just show business for his racist base.
 
mham001
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:52 pm

Spar wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Entire industries became swamped with illegals and deflated wages of Americans all around.

The reason "Entire industries became swamped with illegals" is that's the way Republicans wanted it: cheap labor, holding labor prices down. The "illegal problem" could be solved easily, painlessly and at low cost simply by making it illegal to hire illegals. I'm not talking about the make believe laws we have now; I'm talking about laws that would put employers of illegals in prison and confiscate businesses.

The way Trump is going about it is just show business for his racist base.


I happen to agree about the jail part but If all your partisan partisan nonsense were true, why are Democrat controlled legislatures putting up barriers against the use of E-Verify? You can search that yourself, its been proven here several times.
 
mham001
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:57 pm

Aesma wrote:
So why isn't Trump doing anything about the people that employ these immigrants ?


Who said they are not? https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/ ... udits.aspx

The question remains, why are you arguing about this?
 
Spar
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:05 am

mham001 wrote:
Spar wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Entire industries became swamped with illegals and deflated wages of Americans all around.

The reason "Entire industries became swamped with illegals" is that's the way Republicans wanted it: cheap labor, holding labor prices down. The "illegal problem" could be solved easily, painlessly and at low cost simply by making it illegal to hire illegals. I'm not talking about the make believe laws we have now; I'm talking about laws that would put employers of illegals in prison and confiscate businesses.

The way Trump is going about it is just show business for his racist base.


I happen to agree about the jail part but If all your partisan partisan nonsense were true, why are Democrat controlled legislatures putting up barriers against the use of E-Verify? You can search that yourself, its been proven here several times.
My assumption is that the moneyed people are lobbying both sides heavily. I think it's an issue that could bring a backwater Dem candidate to the forefront if he or she had the cojones to jump on it. I think the idea would sell among the masses.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Mexican President vows to sell Govt. Dreamliner to fund fight against illegal immigration

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:41 am

mham001 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
So why isn't Trump doing anything about the people that employ these immigrants ?


Who said they are not? https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/ ... udits.aspx

The question remains, why are you arguing about this?


Illegal immigration is a topic of discussion in most of the western world. The US elected Trump on that alone, basically, so it's interesting.

If I look at my country, facing the same issue, with the added problem of having more borders, open borders, including a sea border that people try to cross, the candidate that had a Trump-like platform on immigration lost the election badly. In fact she had a stronger platform on the subject we're discussing : "French first" and the "national preference". All public jobs, and all benefits and public help, affordable housing, etc, should go to French citizens first.

I work in construction, where foreign workers are aplenty, so now we must all have an ID card specific to the profession, and display it on the front of the hard hat for those who wear one.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

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