BN747
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Book The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:29 am

...anyone remember that 1950s book that summarized the whims of the new global power - America, upon it's WWII victory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_American
The Ugly American is a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer which depicts the failures of the U.S. diplomatic corps in Southeast Asia. The book caused a sensation in diplomatic circles, and had major political implications.

I think one has to be 40s and older to recall it.

I'm glad to have been living abroad when a teacher pushed it on the class to read. I really do not think an American school in the 1970s-1980s would have condoned let alone suggest it's reading.

How the ugliest American ever, could end up running America.... into the abyss, is amazing in itself.

In 1958, trump was like 10 or so and well on his way under the tutorage of the sinister Roy Cohn & his father, the perfect Ugly American was constructed.

Today, just as in the 1958, book it described 'he'... the ugly American as a brash sort, ignorant of the ways, cultures and others of the world. Throwing their weight & might about as if there are no consequences to be reckoned.

That's our nation today.

BN747
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title changed
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Francoflier
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:33 am

The usual defense from the usual people.

Let's completely disregard Trump's actions, behavior and their effects on the nation and World and focus on qualifying those who try to make sense of this seemingly dysfunctional, heinous and damaging new reality as obsessed and sore-losers.

You can watch the World burn if you want, but don't justify your hatred by attacking those who sound the fire alarm.

Every one of Trump's common-sense-busting actions (and they come daily, such as yesterday's accidental reveal of the non-agreement Mexico agreement or today's confession that he'd use and abet election-meddling foreign intelligence again) would, in a normal World, create condemnation and debate for months.

In the New World he's created, these formerly outrageous acts have become the new norm, and once reason has been thrown eschewed, there is nothing much to do for the brainwashed masses to resort to simplistic belittling to protect the one who can protect them from the World they fear.

Fear and lazyness of mind are not strengths, they're weaknesses.

As for the premises, the mentality that surrounded Trump during his childhood is indeed exactly what forged him into what he is.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:51 am

BN747 wrote:
...anyone remember that 1950s book that summarized the whims of the new global power - America, upon it's WWII victory.

No, you are not alone. The title of this book came back to my mind during the last two years.

The funny thing is I even agree with some of Trump‘s issues he addresses but the way he does it is fully unacceptable and simply „ugly“, for example interfering in national or EU matters and openly supporting the desintegration of the EU. I feel personally attacked by his comments in that respect.

And I have to admit I starts to affect me and how I think about US Americans. I just come from the KLM lounge in Amsterdam. While I tried to work two US Americans came in and, well, you know how it is, sometimes: They talked very loudly, full of self confidence.. I asked myself „did these two guys vote for Trump?“ and decided to look for another place to continue working.

I apologize in advance if anybody is offended by my post. I grew up in West Germany and I am and I will be always grateful for what the USA did to free and to protect my country.

I think the core problem is that there is just one mega power nation. It’s like being at a dancing room and you are the only man: you think you can behave as you like and it doesn’t matter because you are the only potential dance partner.


I am now ready to get grilled. :-)
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:59 am

It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:07 am

N14AZ wrote:
BN747 wrote:
...anyone remember that 1950s book that summarized the whims of the new global power - America, upon it's WWII victory.

No, you are not alone. The title of this book came back to my mind during the last two years.

The funny thing is I even agree with some of Trump‘s issues he addresses but the way he does it is fully unacceptable and simply „ugly“, for example interfering in national or EU matters and openly supporting the desintegration of the EU. I feel personally attacked by his comments in that respect.

And I have to admit I starts to affect me and how I think about US Americans. I just come from the KLM lounge in Amsterdam. While I tried to work two US Americans came in and, well, you know how it is, sometimes: They talked very loudly, full of self confidence.. I asked myself „did these two guys vote for Trump?“ and decided to look for another place to continue working.

I apologize in advance if anybody is offended by my post. I grew up in West Germany and I am and I will be always grateful for what the USA did to free and to protect my country.

I think the core problem is that there is just one mega power nation. It’s like being at a dancing room and you are the only man: you think you can behave as you like and it doesn’t matter because you are the only potential dance partner.


I am now ready to get grilled. :-)


You act as if countries should be forced to stay in the EU no matter how unfair it may be for their people.
 
Olddog
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:07 am

It is not an excuse Trump US acting like an EU enemy.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:09 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm

I don’t understand your comment. I clearly wrote that I grow up in West Germany and that I am grateful that you (... Galaxies flew over my house several times a day..) protected us. So of course, it was NOT so much better before and in East Germany.
 
Airstud
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:14 am

Francoflier wrote:
The usual defense from the usual people.

Let's completely disregard Trump's actions, behavior and their effects on the nation and World and focus on qualifying those who try to make sense of this seemingly dysfunctional, heinous and damaging new reality as obsessed and sore-losers.

You can watch the World burn if you want, but don't justify your hatred by attacking those who sound the fire alarm.



I don't think the hostility at the OP is just because he's sounding the alarm; I think instead some of the reactions reflect the OP reaping boy-who-cried-wolf type consequences. Equanimity begets equanimity, reactiveness & hyperbole beget...
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:15 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
BN747 wrote:
...anyone remember that 1950s book that summarized the whims of the new global power - America, upon it's WWII victory.

No, you are not alone. The title of this book came back to my mind during the last two years.

The funny thing is I even agree with some of Trump‘s issues he addresses but the way he does it is fully unacceptable and simply „ugly“, for example interfering in national or EU matters and openly supporting the desintegration of the EU. I feel personally attacked by his comments in that respect.

And I have to admit I starts to affect me and how I think about US Americans. I just come from the KLM lounge in Amsterdam. While I tried to work two US Americans came in and, well, you know how it is, sometimes: They talked very loudly, full of self confidence.. I asked myself „did these two guys vote for Trump?“ and decided to look for another place to continue working.

I apologize in advance if anybody is offended by my post. I grew up in West Germany and I am and I will be always grateful for what the USA did to free and to protect my country.

I think the core problem is that there is just one mega power nation. It’s like being at a dancing room and you are the only man: you think you can behave as you like and it doesn’t matter because you are the only potential dance partner.


I am now ready to get grilled. :-)


You act as if countries should be forced to stay in the EU no matter how unfair it may be for their people.

I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.
 
Airstud
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:41 am

N14AZ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
No, you are not alone. The title of this book came back to my mind during the last two years.

The funny thing is I even agree with some of Trump‘s issues he addresses but the way he does it is fully unacceptable and simply „ugly“, for example interfering in national or EU matters and openly supporting the desintegration of the EU. I feel personally attacked by his comments in that respect.

And I have to admit I starts to affect me and how I think about US Americans. I just come from the KLM lounge in Amsterdam. While I tried to work two US Americans came in and, well, you know how it is, sometimes: They talked very loudly, full of self confidence.. I asked myself „did these two guys vote for Trump?“ and decided to look for another place to continue working.

I apologize in advance if anybody is offended by my post. I grew up in West Germany and I am and I will be always grateful for what the USA did to free and to protect my country.

I think the core problem is that there is just one mega power nation. It’s like being at a dancing room and you are the only man: you think you can behave as you like and it doesn’t matter because you are the only potential dance partner.


I am now ready to get grilled. :-)


You act as if countries should be forced to stay in the EU no matter how unfair it may be for their people.

I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.


California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Airstud
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:47 am

BN747 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
I don't think the hostility at the OP is just because he's sounding the alarm; I think instead some of the reactions reflect the OP reaping boy-who-cried-wolf type consequences. Equanimity begets equanimity, reactiveness & hyperbole beget...


" the OP reaping boy-who-cried-wolf type consequences."

...and what exactly would those consequences be?


BN747


Diminished cred.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:00 am

Airstud wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

You act as if countries should be forced to stay in the EU no matter how unfair it may be for their people.

I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.


California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?

It was just an example. But here we go: let’s imagine California decided to break the law and to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“
 
Airstud
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Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am

N14AZ wrote:
Airstud wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.


California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?

It was just an example. But here we go: let’s imagine California decided to break the law and to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“


It depends on how well they make the case that they have a stake in the matter, and how much that stake affects us (non-Californian Americans). No one can deny the massive economic links between those communities.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:46 am

N14AZ wrote:
Airstud wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.


California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?

It was just an example. But here we go: let’s imagine California decided to break the law and to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“


Do you not know the difference between a sovereign country leaving an organization and a state that is apart of a sovereign country leaving?

What I really find funny is how the EU relies so heavily on the American military for defense and then wants to play politics with us. Personally, I’m all for us removing our troops from foreign lands and letting y’all handle your own defense.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:05 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
manipulates the facts .


*facts* can by definition not be manipulated. You can lie, but facts are independently, repeatedly conformable data points.

LittleSprocket wrote:
Do you not know the difference between a sovereign country leaving an organization and a state that is apart of a sovereign country leaving?


Yup, one of them has ultimately unlimited states rights, the other doesn´t.
Since Scottland, or Northern Ireland and other could leave either without an army stopping them, that is the only difference.

What I really find funny is how the EU relies so heavily on the American military for defense and then wants to play politics with us. Personally, I’m all for us removing our troops from foreign lands and letting y’all handle your own defense.


Ah.. the urban legend that never dies. The only nation that has enough of a military to threaten the EU militarily, and even that isn´t clear cut in an "invasion scenario", are the USA. Anyone else is out-spend, out-manned, out-tanked, out-fightered, out-artilleried, out-helicoptered, out-APCed, out-IFVed, out-shipped etc. pp. by a factor around 3 to 4 or more.

In case you didn´t notice, the Red Army stopped being big and powerful some decades ago, and if your look at their deployments that seem to be rather scared of China....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
BN747
Topic Author
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Re: The Ugly American

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:59 pm

Airstud wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
I don't think the hostility at the OP is just because he's sounding the alarm; I think instead some of the reactions reflect the OP reaping boy-who-cried-wolf type consequences. Equanimity begets equanimity, reactiveness & hyperbole beget...


" the OP reaping boy-who-cried-wolf type consequences."

...and what exactly would those consequences be?


BN747


Diminished cred.


Diminished cred???

From Who Exactly???

No such credibility exist inside the space of sealed minds (conservatives)...their processing synapses flow is singular in direction - their way or bust! Everything else is lies, fakes news, TDS (which they are void of it's meaning), unpatriotic, etc....

...just look at the 'detractors;...each and everyone of them reporting for the cause of burying any thoughts of 'the Ugly American' discussion (aka holding up the mirror...and they thought it was about them). The conundrum? How do you race to the defense of America's Dirty Laundry WHILE cheering the very guy doing his best to Burn it to the Ground???

How does that brain really work? Seriously...how?

No, no 'cred' needed from this crowd -EVER! Nothing can be learned from them.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Ugly American

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:35 pm

Airstud wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

You act as if countries should be forced to stay in the EU no matter how unfair it may be for their people.

I would like to reply with an comparison: let’s imagine California decided to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“

And it’s obvious that Trump et al do not support Brexit because of the poor British people but because they prefer a weak EU, the weaker the better, that’s my impression.


California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?


There is no process for a state to leave the US. The Civil War made rebellion not the way to leave, but I’m not sure if a state followed the established route to statehood in reverse, it wouldn’t pass the Constitution. State holds a legislative process and approves a law for secession; applied to Congress to leave and the two houses approve legislation and send it to the President for signature. Never been done, but the SCOTUS might go along.
 
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DL717
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Re: The Ugly American

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:41 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm


The left must purge America of all things conservative. Maybe they’ll put us in ghettos, gas chambers, or worse, ovens. Socialists love that kind of shit./sarcasm

Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off. The liberal response to the same scenario? Wreck conservatives lives.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Ugly American

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 pm

DL717 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm


The left must purge America of all things conservative. Maybe they’ll put us in ghettos, gas chambers, or worse, ovens. Socialists love that kind of shit./sarcasm

Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off. The liberal response to the same scenario? Wreck conservatives lives.


Meh, heard the same stuff during the same sex marriage SCOTUS kerfuffle - as a libertarian I say it’s your choice whether to be triggered by what other people say and do. Conservatives have truly become snowflakes on par with whiny SJWs these days.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Airstud
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Re: The Ugly American

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:23 am

DL717 wrote:
Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off. The liberal response to the same scenario? Wreck conservatives lives.


A more accurate explanation is:

A Democrat looks at a half a glass of water and says, "The glass is half-empty."

A Republican looks at a half a glass of water and says, "Who the hell drank half of my water??!?"

:duck:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
BN747
Topic Author
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Re: The Ugly American

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:25 am

DL717 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm


The left must purge America of all things conservative. Maybe they’ll put us in ghettos, gas chambers, or worse, ovens. Socialists love that kind of shit./sarcasm

Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off. The liberal response to the same scenario? Wreck conservatives lives.


Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off.

A million difference,,,but largely Hypocrisy, which means deceitful and lies.
Example - Conservative = Pro Life ..and yet Biblical abortion (nature's way) aka miscarraige-ok BUT ...staunch Death Penalty supporters.

The liberal response to the same scenario?
Always different because Liberals apply sincere evaluation before making a critical decision. Conservatives do what makes them feel good at the moment, they rely on 'their gut' No Brain power is summoned.

[i]Wreck conservatives lives.[/i
No, just quarantine them, ....because like the incurable diseased...steadfast conservatives cannot be enlightened, they have this problem with expanded 'thought', critical thinking and the deepest truth is too hard for them to face.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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DL717
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Re: The Ugly American

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:04 am

BN747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It was so much better when the Thousand-Year Reich balanced things out followed by the The Future that was Communism./sarcasm


The left must purge America of all things conservative. Maybe they’ll put us in ghettos, gas chambers, or worse, ovens. Socialists love that kind of shit./sarcasm

Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off. The liberal response to the same scenario? Wreck conservatives lives.


Different between a liberal and a conservative: If a conservative doesn’t agree with a liberal, the conservative just tells the liberal to eff off.

A million difference,,,but largely Hypocrisy, which means deceitful and lies.
Example - Conservative = Pro Life ..and yet Biblical abortion (nature's way) aka miscarraige-ok BUT ...staunch Death Penalty supporters.

The liberal response to the same scenario?
Always different because Liberals apply sincere evaluation before making a critical decision. Conservatives do what makes them feel good at the moment, they rely on 'their gut' No Brain power is summoned.

[i]Wreck conservatives lives.[/i
No, just quarantine them, ....because like the incurable diseased...steadfast conservatives cannot be enlightened, they have this problem with expanded 'thought', critical thinking and the deepest truth is too hard for them to face.

BN747


:rotfl: No seriously. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Thanks for the good laugh today bro. I needed that. Conservatives do what feels good in the moment? Right. :sarcastic: Liberals live and die by what pulls their heart strings. Stupidest thing I ever heard came out of the mouth a bleeding heart liberal trying to coax me into voting for someone because my “heart” should guide me. Seriously. :white:
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
Olddog
Posts: 1134
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Re: The Ugly American

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:28 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Airstud wrote:

California is a constituted state of the United States; "leaving the USA" is not permitted by the Constitution.

Whereas the E.U. does have provisions allowing member nations to leave the union, yes?

It was just an example. But here we go: let’s imagine California decided to break the law and to leave the USA. What would you think if EU politicians would openly support this? Wouldn’t you say „mind your own business?“


Do you not know the difference between a sovereign country leaving an organization and a state that is apart of a sovereign country leaving?

What I really find funny is how the EU relies so heavily on the American military for defense and then wants to play politics with us. Personally, I’m all for us removing our troops from foreign lands and letting y’all handle your own defense.


For god sake, just do it! Russia has roughly the same GDP than Canada? Do you really think that your bogeyman seriously scares any western country ?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins

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