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wingman
Posts: 3696
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:08 pm

aviationaware wrote:
If anything Trump has shown that he is not one to lightly jump into war where others, particularly HRC, would have jumped at the opportunity. Hillary Clinton has not met a war she didn't want other Americans to fight, Trump is not that foolish.


But but Hillary? Seriously, in regards to launching wars? Go back 6 presidents and name a single Democrat that's started a major war. Meanwhile the Repub before this precious gem started a war based on outright lies and here we are 5T dollars later and all you've got is Hillary. How people so hopelessly stupid can type is a miracle. You should castrate yourself for everyone's sake.
 
Olddog
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:30 pm

The restraint is only due to the fact that (maybe not UK) are not believing US accusations. They learned the hard way that the US does not hesitate to lie to the whole word and be caught.
 
bennett123
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:18 pm

Those holes looked more like RPG than Limpet Mines.
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:23 pm

zkojq wrote:
Tanker owners dispute US version of events.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/japanese- ... ulf-attack


Most telling FACT to date.

When the owner of the damaged goods X's you out....you're toast.

Put some jelly on it...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:35 pm

wingman wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
If anything Trump has shown that he is not one to lightly jump into war where others, particularly HRC, would have jumped at the opportunity. Hillary Clinton has not met a war she didn't want other Americans to fight, Trump is not that foolish.


But but Hillary? Seriously, in regards to launching wars? Go back 6 presidents and name a single Democrat that's started a major war. Meanwhile the Repub before this precious gem started a war based on outright lies and here we are 5T dollars later and all you've got is Hillary. How people so hopelessly stupid can type is a miracle. You should castrate yourself for everyone's sake.


Europeans, Hillary and a Democratic administration started a the worst ongoing conflict in the world today, based on lies and French corruption, beginning a humanitarian crisis we cannot even imagine. If you are going to point fingers at one party, get used to having that thrown back in your face, you and Europeans have lost the right to throw stones about "starting wars". And why does your timeline begin *after* Vietnam?

BN747 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Tanker owners dispute US version of events.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/japanese- ... ulf-attack


Most telling FACT to date.

When the owner of the damaged goods X's you out....you're toast.

Put some jelly on it...

BN747


It says no such thing, just adds to the evidence, although it was notable how the press kneejerked the headlines "Contradiction!" It could have simply been carried by a drone.

Proof will be in what evidence the Iranians provide from the item they removed from the hull. Or don't.
 
LMP737
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:39 pm

Spar wrote:
What a cowardly retort! Which one of the sixty or so cases that are described do you question? We can research any of them you doubt you know.

And why would you even question something that is so obvious? I didn't see anything that was controversial in any of those examples.


I'm sorry if I can't take a website that posts mindless drivel such as this.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/911-the-e ... gh/5662771

Or this.
(22) A Mossad agent admits that, in 1984, Mossad planted a radio transmitter in Gaddaffi’s compound in Tripoli, Libya which broadcast fake terrorist transmissions recorded by Mossad, in order to frame Gaddaffi as a terrorist supporter. Ronald Reagan bombed Libya immediately thereafter.

You must not have noticed that their link was to Amazon and you ignored the fact the Gaddaffi's fondness/support for numerous terrorist groups. Not much need for Mossad to set up transmitters in Libya to convince Reagan to bomb them TWO YEARS latter. And I don't think Mossad is in the habit much of admitting anything.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:04 am

mham001 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Tanker owners dispute US version of events.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/japanese- ... ulf-attack


Most telling FACT to date.

When the owner of the damaged goods X's you out....you're toast.

Put some jelly on it...

BN747


It says no such thing, just adds to the evidence, although it was notable how the press kneejerked the headlines "Contradiction!" It could have simply been carried by a drone.

Proof will be in what evidence the Iranians provide from the item they removed from the hull. Or don't.


Like I said...get the Jelly.

Japanese tanker owner: Trump administration providing ‘false’ information about Gulf of Oman attack
https://news.yahoo.com/japanese-tanker- ... 13013.html

You go ahead beleive your Lying president...I'll take the Japanese dude.



BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:07 am

Supposedly this is now the official line from KSA:

"We do not want a war in the region... But we won't hesitate to deal with any threat to our people, our sovereignty, our territorial integrity and our vital interests," he added, as quoted by AFP.

Reuters reported that the crown prince also called on the international community to take a "decisive stand" towards the attacks on the tankers


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saud ... er-attacks
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:11 am

One thing I don't get: the US has spent months investigating the murder of Jamal Kashogi but still can't decide if the Saudi Government sanctioned it or not, whereas it's taken maybe a day to proclaim Iran guilty of these attacks? Curious.


Mortyman wrote:
A false flag operation, no doubt. One can say a lot about the Iranians, but they are not fools. They would not play into the hands of the warmongers in the US like this.


:checkmark: The Iranians aren't the ones itching for a war....unlike the Saudis, most of the GCC, Israel and John Bolton.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:20 am

zkojq wrote:
One thing I don't get: the US has spent months investigating the murder of Jamal Kashogi but still can't decide if the Saudi Government sanctioned it or not


Well just to correct the record - Congress and the national intelligence apparatus made their decision - but the White House rejects their findings and supports KSA’s purported investigation.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:29 am

So, who has taken the bait aside from local allies (potential accomplices in the situation) and the UK (puppets once again ?) ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:33 am

LMP737 wrote:
Spar wrote:
What a cowardly retort! Which one of the sixty or so cases that are described do you question? We can research any of them you doubt you know.

And why would you even question something that is so obvious? I didn't see anything that was controversial in any of those examples.


I'm sorry if I can't take a website that posts mindless drivel such as this.
You don't have to take Global Research's word for anything, every one of those false flag stories was sourced with a link to a supporting article and there are 68 of them. The one you pointed out as suspect has a source (https://www.amazon.com/Way-Deception-Vi ... 938&sr=1-1) but since I've never heard of that item before and I don't know anything about the author of that book, sure, let's cross that one off. But I have one to replace it and that's the apartment bombing that Putin clearly orchestrated, to start the Chechen war. I know about that one.

You made a strong statement panning false flag operations and I provided a link to over sixty known FF operations. It looks to me as if you're just trying to change the subject.

Although I have to say that I'm not claiming anything about this latest attack on the tankers. That one is up in the air for me.
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:46 am

zkojq wrote:
One thing I don't get: the US has spent months investigating the murder of Jamal Kashogi but still can't decide if the Saudi Government sanctioned it or not, whereas it's taken maybe a day to proclaim Iran guilty of these attacks? Curious.


Mortyman wrote:
A false flag operation, no doubt. One can say a lot about the Iranians, but they are not fools. They would not play into the hands of the warmongers in the US like this.


:checkmark: The Iranians aren't the ones itching for a war....unlike the Saudis, most of the GCC, Israel and John Bolton.



Yep, jus a couple of minutes to find a culprit -er make that a predetermined culprit.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:50 am

BN747 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Most telling FACT to date.

When the owner of the damaged goods X's you out....you're toast.

Put some jelly on it...

BN747


It says no such thing, just adds to the evidence, although it was notable how the press kneejerked the headlines "Contradiction!" It could have simply been carried by a drone.

Proof will be in what evidence the Iranians provide from the item they removed from the hull. Or don't.


Like I said...get the Jelly.

Japanese tanker owner: Trump administration providing ‘false’ information about Gulf of Oman attack
https://news.yahoo.com/japanese-tanker- ... 13013.html

You go ahead beleive your Lying president...I'll take the Japanese dude.


Well, coming from a guy (or a translation) that claims "bullets" caused the damage and apparently believes mines can only be placed under water, his presentation is not exactly accurate either. Can you provide a source quoting Trump, the US military, or anybody else claiming to know HOW the thing stuck to the hull got there? And what exactly did the Iranians remove, the item the crew and everybody else saw, stuck to the ship at the same height as the other hole? A drone delivering the magnetic mine above the waterline is quite possible, Iranians are proud of their drones.

Beyond the kneejerk "Trump lied!", what is your explanation? How did that thing get here?
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:57 am

mham001 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
mham001 wrote:

It says no such thing, just adds to the evidence, although it was notable how the press kneejerked the headlines "Contradiction!" It could have simply been carried by a drone.

Proof will be in what evidence the Iranians provide from the item they removed from the hull. Or don't.


Like I said...get the Jelly.

Japanese tanker owner: Trump administration providing ‘false’ information about Gulf of Oman attack
https://news.yahoo.com/japanese-tanker- ... 13013.html

You go ahead beleive your Lying president...I'll take the Japanese dude.


Well, coming from a guy (or a translation) that claims "bullets" caused the damage and apparently believes mines can only be placed under water, his presentation is not exactly accurate either. Can you provide a source quoting Trump, the US military, or anybody else claiming to know HOW the thing stuck to the hull got there? And what exactly did the Iranians remove, the item the crew and everybody else saw, stuck to the ship at the same height as the other hole? A drone delivering the magnetic mine above the waterline is quite possible, Iranians are proud of their drones.

Beyond the kneejerk "Trump lied!", what is your explanation? How did that thing get here?


NO...anyone quoting Chunkahontas is somewone below the morons who believe Klingon is an actual language outside tv.

In other words, a person quoting a verified Fool is a bigger Fool.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:24 am

I'm beginning to suspect that the Iranians may have come to the conclusion that Trump is just a bigmouth who will never act. They may have decided to call his bluff and essentially shut down the gulf, not completely (at least not so far), but to cause enough damage to make insurance prices go through the roof; thus making Saudi and UAE oil more expensive and less competitive in the market, costing the Saudis and the Emirates big bucks.

If the US does conduct air strikes, they are extremely unlikely to be anything other than pinpricks and the Iranians justifiably or not, probably have a lot of faith in their air defenses. The primary result of US air operations would be for the Iranian people to rally around the flag and support the government wholeheartedly; to put it bluntly, the Iranians would probably take several million casualties without losing anty support for their government. Meanwhile, the US in such a scenario would become an outcast nation with only Israel, Saudi Arabia, Poland and Hungary for allies.

Trump's big mouth may have painted him into a corner with no way out.
 
bennett123
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:16 am

Mham001

So are you saying that there is no evidence to show who attacked the tankers.

You refer to Iran having drones, presumably the other nations with forces in the region also have drones.
 
DDR
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:03 pm

As for the conspiracy theories, I don't buy them. I don't think Trump is smart enough to frame the Iranians. And if he actually was successful, he would give it way by bragging about how successful he was, lol.
 
seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:27 pm

Since no one can figure out who did this and we are all simply pointing fingers and throwing around conspiracies, what if Saudi Arabia did this or even Somalis or IS? There are still IS strongholds in Iraq and Syria...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
N757ST
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
Since no one can figure out who did this and we are all simply pointing fingers and throwing around conspiracies, what if Saudi Arabia did this or even Somalis or IS? There are still IS strongholds in Iraq and Syria...


Um.... the Somalis? How the heck would the Somalis get like 700 miles to the gulf of Oman in small boats? IS is also out of the question as they were located in interior Iraq, not near the coast and also wouldn’t have the equipment nor the ability to deliver munitions to these ships, and certainly they couldn’t get out without being spotted.
 
seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:51 pm

N757ST wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Since no one can figure out who did this and we are all simply pointing fingers and throwing around conspiracies, what if Saudi Arabia did this or even Somalis or IS? There are still IS strongholds in Iraq and Syria...


Um.... the Somalis? How the heck would the Somalis get like 700 miles to the gulf of Oman in small boats? IS is also out of the question as they were located in interior Iraq, not near the coast and also wouldn’t have the equipment nor the ability to deliver munitions to these ships, and certainly they couldn’t get out without being spotted.


Somalis is the least probable, I know. Perhaps there is an al-Qaida/IS support network? Again, just speculation since no one, not even American intelligence, can figure out who did it...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:58 pm

'Somalis'?...I just threw that in the discussion for levity sake...I didn't think anyone would take that seriously.

DDR wrote:
As for the conspiracy theories, I don't buy them. I don't think Trump is smart enough to frame the Iranians. And if he actually was successful, he would give it way by bragging about how successful he was, lol.


He certainly is not!


But he is desperate enough!

His presidency has been nothing but grabbing any straws he can reach that'll take media spotlight off his Russia/financial concerns, any Headline will do...esp. one aimed at an 'instant enemy', Iran, the array of shithole countries all qualify.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:36 pm

These conspiracy theories are sad.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:21 am

I for one am following oil prices closely. I'm ready to jump and profit off these misadventures.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
slider
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:59 pm

As of this moment, right now, are there are reputable sources as to the investigation and more details on this event?
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:58 pm

slider wrote:
As of this moment, right now, are there are reputable sources as to the investigation and more details on this event?

I asked myself the same thing. Freely based on a popular saying, today it was like „imagine Iran plants bombs on two ships and no one shows up...“

European officials are still waiting for more details, similar to you and me.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:22 pm

slider wrote:
As of this moment, right now, are there are reputable sources as to the investigation and more details on this event?


Not on the investigation, but more bad news:

Iranian atomic energy organisation spokesman Behrouz Kamalvandi’s statement is another blow to the moribund pact signed in 2015 that has been shaken by the United States’ withdrawal.

"Today the countdown to pass the 300kg reserve of enriched uranium has started and in 10 days time we will pass this limit," Kamalvandi said on Iran’s national broadcaster. "This is based on the Articles 26 and 36 of the [nuclear deal], and will be reversed once other parties live up to their commitments," he added, speaking from the Arak nuclear plant southwest of Tehran.

On 8 May, President Hassan Rouhani announced that Iran would stop observing restrictions on its stocks of enriched uranium and heavy water agreed under the 2015 nuclear deal.

He said the move was in retaliation for the unilateral US withdrawal from the accord a year earlier, which saw Washington impose tough economic sanctions on Tehran. Iran has threatened to go even further by 8 July unless remaining partners to the deal - Britain, China, France, Germany and Russia - help it circumvent US sanctions and in particular enable it to sell its oil.


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iran ... c-official
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wingman
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:59 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


I'm glad you're finally starting to see through all of Trump's bullshit. The guy lied from Day 1 and has never stopped, it's no wonder no one believes a word he or his muppets keep yelping on about.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:08 pm

wingman wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


I'm glad you're finally starting to see through all of Trump's bullshit. The guy lied from Day 1 and has never stopped, it's no wonder no one believes a word he or his muppets keep yelping on about.


Still subscribing to the wild conspiracy that the united states could somehow mine two tankers in the gulf of oman, tankers that belong to allies of ours. And that noone in the chain of command would cry foul or whistle blow on that. Ok. you keep doing you.

I'll allow that it could be another state actor. But until shown evidence to the contrary I'm going to go with what the intelligence community is providing at this point.
 
wingman
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:20 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
wingman wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


I'm glad you're finally starting to see through all of Trump's bullshit. The guy lied from Day 1 and has never stopped, it's no wonder no one believes a word he or his muppets keep yelping on about.


Still subscribing to the wild conspiracy that the united states could somehow mine two tankers in the gulf of oman, tankers that belong to allies of ours. And that noone in the chain of command would cry foul or whistle blow on that. Ok. you keep doing you.

I'll allow that it could be another state actor. But until shown evidence to the contrary I'm going to go with what the intelligence community is providing at this point.


Why like Intelligence on Iran but not on Russia? I thought you were being serious. You're good with another $5T pissed down the shitter and another 5000-10000 dead American kids and 100,000 horribly maimed and mentally scarred..for what? So this bloated orange fuck face gets another 4 years? I bet bone spurs are genetic cause you just know none of his kids or grandkids will ever show up to man the ramparts. But hey, as long as the core gets to jack the rat into their American flag tissues while they scarf down White Castle as the missiles blow up Tehran on Fox&Friends..whatever makes you and your peeps happy. As for me I'll need a lot more real evidence than two bloated pigs trotting out some bullshit You Tube video. It's more pathetic than Powell's brandishing that Fedex Overnight Tube at the UN claiming it was an ICBM.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:28 pm

You hate trump so much that you would honestly rather think that the US attacked civilian vessels and not a country that helps fund terrorists networks.

I don't want to go to war. Nobody should want to go to war.

You would rather believe Russian intelligence than American intelligence. Russian's have plenty to gain with the US getting involved in another conflict. Maybe you should stop being manipulated by the Russian's.
 
WKTaylor
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:28 pm

Saudi Crown Prince, Pompeo Send a Message to Iran: End Hostility or Pay the Price..
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/saudi-cr ... 0190617IHS

I am 66-YO who has been intimately connected to the military since birth.

This fluid, fast-moving, finger-pointing, saber-rattling situation seems like Deja-vu, all-over-again!

As an 11-YO I watched the 'Gulf of Tonkin Incident' spin-up to become the 'Gulf-of-Tonkin Resolution' which spun-out-of-control to became the all-out 'Vietnam War'. Sadly, years into the VN War, classified documents spilled-out, disproving must of the crazy 'facts' the 'Resolution' was based-on.

Also... more recent history... let's not forget the Gulf War [GW] II 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' claims... that fizzled in the cold light of combat operations. OH yeah... 'You break-it, You've bought

That The Trump administration, specifically lead-by Pompeo and Chicken-Hawk-Bolton have the religious-fervor/single-mindedness of medieval Crusader for many years... who are now 'absolutely in-god-we-trust-certain of their anti-Iranian cause'... and oh by-the-way isn't it convenient to have an international bad-guy... not the Rooskies or Chi-Coms... to target.
 
Olddog
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:28 pm

What intelligence community? You are just going with soundbites from the white house gang. Build some credibility first.
 
wingman
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:34 pm

Your man Trump is the one that believes the Russians over the CIA!! Did you not see him crawl out of that meeting with Putin wiping the shit off his chin and say in front of the whole world "Puti says he didn't do it and I believe him over my own intelligence community". I'm glad you hate war. Your party sure as shit doesn't. They fucking love it every goddamned time they take office..every single fucking time. Don't look at me man, look at the shit stain of an asshole you voted into office.
 
seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:45 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
You hate trump so much that you would honestly rather think that the US attacked civilian vessels and not a country that helps fund terrorists networks.

I don't want to go to war. Nobody should want to go to war.

You would rather believe Russian intelligence than American intelligence. Russian's have plenty to gain with the US getting involved in another conflict. Maybe you should stop being manipulated by the Russian's.


The current occupant of the White House believes Russia over American intelligence. Republicans want complete and total allegiance to individual number one and no one else. Maybe the Russians did this because they know how war hungry the current administration is and how yet another endless war will drain and weaken the United States.

Don't take my word for it. Look at how adoring dear leader is around Putin....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
You hate trump so much that you would honestly rather think that the US attacked civilian vessels and not a country that helps fund terrorists networks.

I don't want to go to war. Nobody should want to go to war.

You would rather believe Russian intelligence than American intelligence. Russian's have plenty to gain with the US getting involved in another conflict. Maybe you should stop being manipulated by the Russian's.


The current occupant of the White House believes Russia over American intelligence. Republicans want complete and total allegiance to individual number one and no one else. Maybe the Russians did this because they know how war hungry the current administration is and how yet another endless war will drain and weaken the United States.

Don't take my word for it. Look at how adoring dear leader is around Putin....


Think about what you're saying. The russian's are saying it wasn't the Iranians! Completely counter to what the US admin is saying!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
You hate trump so much that you would honestly rather think that the US attacked civilian vessels and not a country that helps fund terrorists networks.

I don't want to go to war. Nobody should want to go to war.

You would rather believe Russian intelligence than American intelligence. Russian's have plenty to gain with the US getting involved in another conflict. Maybe you should stop being manipulated by the Russian's.


The current occupant of the White House believes Russia over American intelligence. Republicans want complete and total allegiance to individual number one and no one else. Maybe the Russians did this because they know how war hungry the current administration is and how yet another endless war will drain and weaken the United States.

Don't take my word for it. Look at how adoring dear leader is around Putin....


Think about what you're saying. The russian's are saying it wasn't the Iranians! Completely counter to what the US admin is saying!

The Problem is that the US (Trump Administration) bailed on the Paris Agreement, which was not a good move. The US now has to get the buy -in of everyone , and there are a lot of parties that have no motive to buy into the US's version of events, whether true or not.

Now the US will have to patrol(at higher cost for the US taxpayer) the Persian Gulf again. Regardless of state actor, the US will have to be there to protect the Gulf. This also plays into the Iranian -Russian Narrative that the US is doing this to amplify their influence in the middle east, and thus sow more discord.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
slider
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:32 pm

Good grief, people.

I don't see this as some prelude to war, under false, fabricated or other pretenses. If anything, the behavior we've seen from Trump--his bluster and oft cringe-worthy chest-thumping aside--has made the world safer. He's stood up for US interests, North Korea is more in check than they've been, the Iran deal was BS to begin with (and even lefties have to admit it), and this piece from Foreign Affairs sums it up nicely. The concept of "threat inflation" in foreign policy has been FAR too pervasive, indeed. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... nder-trump

Now we just need a total withdrawal from Afghanistan and drawdown Iraq. Time to tend to our own matters. I don't think Trump has any appetite for war. The vessel isn't a United States ship, it has not demonstrably impacted any US national interest, and we have no reason to amp up the rhetoric. The Saudis have taken the Iranians to task--as it should be; let the region sort itself out and self-police.
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
Now the US will have to patrol(at higher cost for the US taxpayer) the Persian Gulf again. Regardless of state actor, the US will have to be there to protect the Gulf.


Why?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:54 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Now the US will have to patrol(at higher cost for the US taxpayer) the Persian Gulf again. Regardless of state actor, the US will have to be there to protect the Gulf.


Why?


Because we want oil to remain cheap, and do you trust Iran and Saudi Arabia to police the Persian Gulf on their own? Do you think that the rest of the world will trust them to do it?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 pm

casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Now the US will have to patrol(at higher cost for the US taxpayer) the Persian Gulf again. Regardless of state actor, the US will have to be there to protect the Gulf.


Why?


Because we want oil to remain cheap, and do you trust Iran and Saudi Arabia to police the Persian Gulf on their own? Do you think that the rest of the world will trust them to do it?


True it may get more expensive but it won't be a repeat of 1974, things are very, very different now. look at how oil only jumped 3% or so on the tanker hits but had declined 19% over the last two months. Supplies in the US are rising and world demand is expected to decline in the near future. "the rest of the world" can deal with them, this fits perfectly in Trump's stated platform, I hope he sticks to it.
Last edited by mham001 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:01 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Why?


Because we want oil to remain cheap, and do you trust Iran and Saudi Arabia to police the Persian Gulf on their own? Do you think that the rest of the world will trust them to do it?


True it may get more expensive but it won't be a repeat of 1974, things are very, very different now. look at how oil only jumped 3% or so on the tanker hits but had declined 19% over the last two months. Supplies in the US are rising and world demand is expected to decline. "the rest of the world " can deal with them.



That is not how billions of dollars in Arms deals get done. There are strategic alliances at play here. Oil is only part of the story.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Because we want oil to remain cheap, and do you trust Iran and Saudi Arabia to police the Persian Gulf on their own? Do you think that the rest of the world will trust them to do it?


True it may get more expensive but it won't be a repeat of 1974, things are very, very different now. look at how oil only jumped 3% or so on the tanker hits but had declined 19% over the last two months. Supplies in the US are rising and world demand is expected to decline. "the rest of the world " can deal with them.



That is not how billions of dollars in Arms deals get done. There are strategic alliances at play here. Oil is only part of the story.


Those spending the billions can just as well take the lead.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:08 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:

True it may get more expensive but it won't be a repeat of 1974, things are very, very different now. look at how oil only jumped 3% or so on the tanker hits but had declined 19% over the last two months. Supplies in the US are rising and world demand is expected to decline. "the rest of the world " can deal with them.



That is not how billions of dollars in Arms deals get done. There are strategic alliances at play here. Oil is only part of the story.


Those spending the billions can just as well take the lead.


You go tell that to Trump, Bolton, and Pompeo
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:20 pm

slider wrote:
I don't see this as some prelude to war, under false, fabricated or other pretenses. If anything, the behavior we've seen from Trump--his bluster and oft cringe-worthy chest-thumping aside--has made the world safer. He's stood up for US interests, North Korea is more in check than they've been, the Iran deal was BS to begin with (and even lefties have to admit it), and this piece from Foreign Affairs sums it up nicely. The concept of "threat inflation" in foreign policy has been FAR too pervasive, indeed. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... nder-trump
So he's sanctioned and taunted and threatened and insulted Iran continuously ever since taking office and now this has brought us to the point of experiencing attacks on tankers which seem to be on the verge of bringing a shutdown of ship traffic through the Gulf of Oman, but you see this all as hunky dory? You think this will all just blow away? I don't.

Also you should try to understand that "the lefties" as you call them, think that the Iran nuclear framework deal that was negotiated in Lausanne, Switzerland was working just fine. Also keep in mind that those "lefties" include most of the nations in Europe. The tearing up of that agreement by Donald Trump is eschewed by most of the nations of the world and has the support of only Israel, with Saudi Arabia tagging along because they've been promised an upset in the thousand year plus long power balance between the Bedouin tribes of Saudi Arabia and the Persian nation as long as they support Israel's permanent expansion program.

BTW
The article that you linked is behind a paywall.

I also need to inform you that the reason our relations with North Korea are so warm is due to the fact that Donald Trump has abandoned forty years of US efforts to keep the Korean peninsula nuke free and he has also given North Korea carte blanche to continue its development of ballistic missile technology. It's easy to get along with a tyrant when you give him everything he wants.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:25 pm

WKTaylor wrote:
Saudi Crown Prince, Pompeo Send a Message to Iran: End Hostility or Pay the Price..
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/saudi-cr ... 0190617IHS

I am 66-YO who has been intimately connected to the military since birth.

This fluid, fast-moving, finger-pointing, saber-rattling situation seems like Deja-vu, all-over-again!

As an 11-YO I watched the 'Gulf of Tonkin Incident' spin-up to become the 'Gulf-of-Tonkin Resolution' which spun-out-of-control to became the all-out 'Vietnam War'. Sadly, years into the VN War, classified documents spilled-out, disproving must of the crazy 'facts' the 'Resolution' was based-on.

Also... more recent history... let's not forget the Gulf War [GW] II 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' claims... that fizzled in the cold light of combat operations. OH yeah... 'You break-it, You've bought .


... plus the video showing Iraqi troops stealing incubators:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

I saw the video at that time and believed it..

Disclaimer: it was not produced by the USA but by a group called Citizens for a Free Kuwait. Nevertheless, President Bush Senior believed in it as well and used it in his speeches.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:27 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
wingman wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


I'm glad you're finally starting to see through all of Trump's bullshit. The guy lied from Day 1 and has never stopped, it's no wonder no one believes a word he or his muppets keep yelping on about.


Still subscribing to the wild conspiracy that the united states could somehow mine two tankers in the gulf of oman, tankers that belong to allies of ours. And that noone in the chain of command would cry foul or whistle blow on that. Ok. you keep doing you.

I'll allow that it could be another state actor. But until shown evidence to the contrary I'm going to go with what the intelligence community is providing at this point.


I don't see why the CIA couldn't have done it, it's right in its alley. You're right that at some point, someone would talk, but this just happened.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BN747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:29 pm

Spar wrote:
slider wrote:
I don't see this as some prelude to war, under false, fabricated or other pretenses. If anything, the behavior we've seen from Trump--his bluster and oft cringe-worthy chest-thumping aside--has made the world safer. He's stood up for US interests, North Korea is more in check than they've been, the Iran deal was BS to begin with (and even lefties have to admit it), and this piece from Foreign Affairs sums it up nicely. The concept of "threat inflation" in foreign policy has been FAR too pervasive, indeed. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... nder-trump
So he's sanctioned and taunted and threatened and insulted Iran continuously ever since taking office and now this has brought us to the point of experiencing attacks on tankers which seem to be on the verge of bringing a shutdown of ship traffic through the Gulf of Oman, but you see this all as hunky dory? You think this will all just blow away? I don't.

Also you should try to understand that "the lefties" as you call them, think that the Iran nuclear framework deal that was negotiated in Lausanne, Switzerland was working just fine. Also keep in mind that those "lefties" include most of the nations in Europe. The tearing up of that agreement by Donald Trump is eschewed by most of the nations of the world and has the support of only Israel, with Saudi Arabia tagging along because they've been promised an upset in the thousand year plus long power balance between the Bedouin tribes of Saudi Arabia and the Persian nation as long as they support Israel's permanent expansion program.

BTW
The article that you linked is behind a paywall.

I also need to inform you that the reason our relations with North Korea are so warm is due to the fact that Donald Trump has abandoned forty years of US efforts to keep the Korean peninsula nuke free and he has also given North Korea carte blanche to continue its development of ballistic missile technology. It's easy to get along with a tyrant when you give him everything he wants.



:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Not his fault, I think he got all that knowledge from 'Smart News'....

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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zkojq
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:37 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


Remember when the US Government told us that Iraq had train based mobile weapons labs. Remember how that turned out? Remember when Jacques Chirac called BS and was completely and utterly vindicated.

Clearly the lesson here is that we should bow down to whatever the US Government says is happening in the middle east. We certainly should not think critically for ourselves on such matters...
First to fly the 787-9
 
Magog
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:48 pm

zkojq wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
These conspiracy theories are sad.


Remember when the US Government told us that Iraq had train based mobile weapons labs. Remember how that turned out? Remember when Jacques Chirac called BS and was completely and utterly vindicated.

Clearly the lesson here is that we should bow down to whatever the US Government says is happening in the middle east. We certainly should not think critically for ourselves on such matters...

There is a difference between not bowing down and assuming alternative facts.
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