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sierrakilo44
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:56 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Well, there seem to be people in the administration who do not think like this.

Heck, if the story was actually as described above and not just some kind of propaganda (you all know how the saying goes, truth is the first casualty in war...) then I really like what Trump did.


John Bolton thought that 200'000 civilian dead in Iraq was an acceptable price to pay to get his hands on that country. The man is a sociopathic warmonger.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:00 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Well, there seem to be people in the administration who do not think like this.


John Bolton thought that 200'000 civilian dead in Iraq was an acceptable price to pay to get his hands on that country. The man is a sociopathic warmonger.

That's the man I had in mind when I wrote my comment. But even better that Trump changed his mind and did not follow his advice, finally.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:21 pm

N14AZ wrote:
That's the man I had in mind when I wrote my comment. But even better that Trump changed his mind and did not follow his advice, finally.


The fact Bolton will remain in the Administration, right next to an easily influenced President's ear causes concern however. His obsession with invading Iran will remain, and he isn't getting any younger, and will probably see the time between now and the next election as his last shot at getting his long awaited war. Along with Pompeo and others in the US government who have a hard on for conflict with Iran. This could set the stage for powerplays within the White House between the pro and anti war camps.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:21 pm

Remember when Trump supporters were worried HRC would get us into a war and Trump would keep us out of one. Good times.
mad99 wrote:
Lets see

Iran warns the US to get the drone out of its airspace twice

Iran shoots down the drone

Trump says they’ve made a big mistake

Trump says the order to shoot it down did not come from Teheran and it’s just a mistake.

Trump orders a strike on Iran.

Trump orders the strike stopped because 150 people might die.

Sounds like a solid plan to me

Stable genius

sierrakilo44 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Well, there seem to be people in the administration who do not think like this.

Heck, if the story was actually as described above and not just some kind of propaganda (you all know how the saying goes, truth is the first casualty in war...) then I really like what Trump did.


John Bolton thought that 200'000 civilian dead in Iraq was an acceptable price to pay to get his hands on that country. The man is a sociopathic warmonger.

The prolife crowd sure does love to murder hundreds of thousands in the Middle East at the drop of a hat
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:46 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The prolife crowd sure does love to murder hundreds of thousands in the Middle East at the drop of a hat


The incelhawks have a lot of compensating to live up to.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:16 pm

I would have to give Trump credit for good judgment re: "not proportionate". But knowing Trump, I have to wonder if he has decided that a war with Iran would serve him better a little closer to the 2020 election. Assuming that the sanctions and insults toward Iran will continue, I don't see how this is going to end in anything but a military quagmire.

There are nations which would benefit from a war between Iran and the United States, but not Iran or the United States.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:19 pm

Spar wrote:
I would have to give Trump credit for good judgment re: "not proportionate". But knowing Trump, I have to wonder if he has decided that a war with Iran would serve him better a little closer to the 2020 election. Assuming that the sanctions and insults toward Iran will continue, I don't see how this is going to end in anything but a military quagmire.

There are nations which would benefit from a war between Iran and the United States, but not Iran or the United States.


Trump is looking for his George Bush push. Remember Bush(W) was elected handily to his second term on the back of the war in iraq and terrorism. (plus Kerry was as bad or worse of a candidate than Romney).
Trump needs that approval rating up, and it is almost like he is searching for that 9/11 /Iraq War impetus that drove GWB.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:29 pm

Not all his advisers talk to him. They just make decisions on their own because they don't trust him. I just wonder if this was one of those times. Also, let's go back and read through the numerous tweets about Obama wanting war to get reelected.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:35 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Trump is now downplaying the incident, saying it was probably an Iranian mistake...


Sounds like he's trying to avoid an armed conflict with Iran. Isn't that what you wanted?

How so? He's talking out of both sides of his mouth and can't get his story straight. Which part are we to believe, O apologist whisperer?

Again, is calling for a strike and then canceling it 10 minutes out avoiding the armed conflict or nah?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:31 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Sounds like he's trying to avoid an armed conflict with Iran. Isn't that what you wanted?

How so? He's talking out of both sides of his mouth and can't get his story straight. Which part are we to believe, O apologist whisperer?

Again, is calling for a strike and then canceling it 10 minutes out avoiding the armed conflict or nah?


We should also remind the apologists there was an agreement between Iran and the rest of the world but the stable genius cancelled it and that is how we are where we are today.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:39 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Sounds like he's trying to avoid an armed conflict with Iran. Isn't that what you wanted?

How so? He's talking out of both sides of his mouth and can't get his story straight. Which part are we to believe, O apologist whisperer?

Again, is calling for a strike and then canceling it 10 minutes out avoiding the armed conflict or nah?


From recent news reports, "armed conflict" has already started. The problem you are having is that Trump has not (yet) engaged. You must be severely disappointed, a severe blow to the obsessed critic.

Iran is backed in a corner, they may not survive the sanctions through Trumps term. If they continue to push, even a US response does not mean we invade, when they were blowing up tankers and hit a US military ship, we destroyed their navy. Iran stopped. This is the type of response that might be appropriate in the future. Don't expect Trump to invade Iran with the goal of regime change - it won't happen.

"On April 14, 1988, the U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts, a frigate, hit an Iranian naval mine while sailing in the Persian Gulf. The explosion injured 10 of her crew and nearly sank the ship. Four days later, the U.S. Navy destroyed half the Iranian fleet in a matter of hours. Iran did not molest the Navy or international shipping for many years thereafter." https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/opin ... ttack.html

And for some background on Iran's recent naval history...https://warisboring.com/all-the-times-t ... ss-kicked/

This is not your either/or conflict.
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:33 pm

mham001 wrote:
Iran is backed in a corner, they may not survive the sanctions through Trumps term.......

How did that Iraq thing work out for you?


And btw, Iran has been a continuous entity for over 2,500 years, are you expecting their land mass to just disappear joining the Caspian Sea with the Gulf and making SW Afghanistan seafront property?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:06 am

Good piece on the situation in Tehran:

I live on 30 Tir Street in southern Tehran, the beating heart of the city. The labyrinthine Tehran bazaar is a short walk away. There are government ministries, libraries, churches, a functioning synagogue and a Zoroastrian high school nearby.

This is the Tehran that would draw visitors, but there are few. The devastating impact of American sanctions is everywhere: The stores are often empty; the restaurants, mostly deserted. On the adjacent Hafez Avenue, a deafening silence pervades the shopping complex specializing in selling mobile phones.

One of the few stores on 30 Tir Street that still attracts customers is run by Abbasi, a retired army officer who repairs household gadgets — people cannot afford to buy new stuff. “Well, isn’t this already war?” he asked, without much rancor. It’s a question many Iranians ask themselves these days.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/opin ... risis.html
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dragon-wings
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:41 am

So he asked how many people will die only 10 minutes before the attack would of started?? Shouldn't something like that been discussed during the planning of this attack??
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seb146
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:50 am

Even though nothing has happened yet, is it too early to talk about how the VA will deal with the long term casualties if this ever happens? We know Republicans love veterans oh so much so this is something cadet bone spurs and those in the swamp with him need to think about......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:56 am

dragon-wings wrote:
So he asked how many people will die only 10 minutes before the attack would of started?? Shouldn't something like that been discussed during the planning of this attack??


It was most likely a lie on his part to portray himself as ‘in charge’ - remember this is all just a long TV show to him. Casualty assessments are a standard mention in any DoD strike briefing - so either he wasn’t paying attention and did have to ask those details later, or he’s just lying per usual.
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wardialer
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:14 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
wardialer wrote:
Now a US Drone got downed by an Iranian SAM...

Trump is weak when it comes to military action.

This is why we need a president that has a military background. And Trump is not one of them...


Trump in office has bombed about 7 countries, launched cruise missiles strikes in Syria, authorised Special Ops raids against targets in Africa and the ME, increased drone strikes by 400% above Obama, increased US military spending by $160 billion.

And now you're begging for war because Iranians shot down a flying robot off their coastline?

A flying robot isn't worth one human life.



Yes, it does matter when a drone gets shot down because that is still considered a United States government asset. Don't care if it is a drone or not.
Its bad for our defense and aerospace contracting industries, so we need war to fuel these industries. Plus,those drones cost about 180,000,000 USD.

People who are investing in companies who makes these drones (e.g. General Atomics), wants war, trust me. Because that is their fuel for their revenue.

At the very least, The US just could of bombed the location or the source of the Iranian SAM with pinpoint accuracy. We have the technology to cause LESS collateral damage.
Last edited by wardialer on Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
BestWestern
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:21 am

The US and the EU had done a deal with Iran to bring it back into the world. Three years later, we sit on the start of Iran enriching uranium, a major global conflict and sending fuel prices rocketing.

And people consider this good politics?
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sierrakilo44
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 am

BestWestern wrote:
The US and the EU had done a deal with Iran to bring it back into the world. Three years later, we sit on the start of Iran enriching uranium, a major global conflict and sending fuel prices rocketing.

And people consider this good politics?


If you are a weapons manufacturer.

If you are Israeli or Saudi and want the Iranian government overthrown for your own interests.

If you are a supporter of the Shah and want his family re-installed in power.

If you’re a US neocon who wants total control of the very geopolitically important Gulf region.

If you are a politician and think you can win public support by showing how tough you are against those evil A-rabs (yes, I know Iranians are Persian but I doubt the average voter would).

They’d consider it good politics.
Last edited by sierrakilo44 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:39 am

wardialer wrote:
Yes, it does matter when a drone gets shot down because that is still considered a United States government asset. Don't care if it is a drone or not.
Its bad for our defense and aerospace contracting industries, so we need war to fuel these industries. Plus,those drones cost about 180,000,000 USD.


The US military flew a drone there precisely because they knew it could be attacked without loss of life. It was a US government asset either violating a nation’s sovereign airspace or it’s ADIZ without being identified.

And as sanctions are a weapon of war, think of the economic damage done to the economy of everyday Iranians by the sanctions and how much material loss they’ve suffered as a result.

And a quick side note for you Americans, with that figure the cost of one of these drones could have paid the healthcare costs for 36’000 of your uninsured citizens for one year.

People who are investing in companies who makes these drones (e.g. General Atomics), wants war, trust me. Because that is their fuel for their revenue.


You admit military weapons manufacturers push for war? No argument from me there.

At the very least, The US just could of bombed the location or the source of the Iranian SAM with pinpoint accuracy. We have the technology to cause LESS collateral damage.


Yeah tell the hundreds of thousand of maimed and displaced in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Yemen etc. how they should be grateful the US military causes less collateral damage than other nations.

From the Iranian’s perspective striking a defensive SAM base and killing the personnel inside is a direct attack on their sovereignty, so aren’t they justified launching an attack against the US military targets in response?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:24 am

wardialer wrote:
Yes, it does matter when a drone gets shot down because that is still considered a United States government asset. Don't care if it is a drone or not.
Its bad for our defense and aerospace contracting industries, so we need war to fuel these industries. Plus,those drones cost about 180,000,000 USD.

People who are investing in companies who makes these drones (e.g. General Atomics), wants war, trust me. Because that is their fuel for their revenue.


I'm being a bit slow this morning, so perhaps you can help me? Is your post sarcastic or is it an epic troll?
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MaverickM11
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:27 pm

mham001 wrote:
This is not your either/or conflict.

Oh? Trump said that by shooting down the drone "Iran made a very big mistake". Minutes later he changed his mind "I would imagine it was a general or somebody who made a mistake in shooting the drone down." Hours after that he approved a strike, knowing full well it would kill 150 people, and minutes before the strike he changed his mind--or Tuckjob Carlson changed his mind--and called off the strike, again lying that he just found out it would kill people. It may not be an 'either/or conflict' but Trump is managing to be Schroedinger's dotard on the issue, simultaneously attacking and not attacking Iran, while lying every step of the way, poorly.
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Aaron747
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:43 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
This is not your either/or conflict.

Oh? Trump said that by shooting down the drone "Iran made a very big mistake". Minutes later he changed his mind "I would imagine it was a general or somebody who made a mistake in shooting the drone down." Hours after that he approved a strike, knowing full well it would kill 150 people, and minutes before the strike he changed his mind--or Tuckjob Carlson changed his mind--and called off the strike, again lying that he just found out it would kill people. It may not be an 'either/or conflict' but Trump is managing to be Schroedinger's dotard on the issue, simultaneously attacking and not attacking Iran, while lying every step of the way, poorly.


Say what you will, Tucker is earning his libertarian stripes this week. He did an epic takedown of John Bolton in yesterday’s show:

https://youtu.be/-c0jMsspE7Y
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wingman
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:00 pm

So much bravado, so limp dickie. This all just exposes his complete lack of coherence or vision in anything beyond the golf course. The beautiful thing about that Nuclear Deal, catching Iran doing what it's doing now would have instantly legitimized military action. Instead now it's Trump's withdrawal from the plan that legitimizes Iran. Trump just couldn't understand that long game of chess. People point to North Korea and say how wonderful he is, except that the missile keep flying there too..nothing's changed.

I think one happened here: Iran is correct that they blew that drone out of the sky inside their airspace, and I tend to believe those instant coordinates they produced over the vague bullshit put out by Central Command, and when Trump sees a Fox News divided the neurons start misfiring. Fox and Friends and Hannity were sounding the bugles into the left ear but Tuck and Shep yelled "stand down Mr. President" in the right ear. It must all be so confusing to Captain Jowls.
 
alfa164
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:16 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
The US and the EU had done a deal with Iran to bring it back into the world. Three years later, we sit on the start of Iran enriching uranium, a major global conflict and sending fuel prices rocketing. And people consider this good politics?

If you are a weapons manufacturer.
If you are Israeli or Saudi and want the Iranian government overthrown for your own interests.
If you are a supporter of the Shah and want his family re-installed in power.
If you’re a US neocon who wants total control of the very geopolitically important Gulf region.
If you are a politician and think you can win public support by showing how tough you are against those evil A-rabs (yes, I know Iranians are Persian but I doubt the average voter would).
They’d consider it good politics.


:checkmark: This. There are always vested interests wanting to get us into a war - and, hopefully, cooler heads that prevent that from happening.
.

wingman wrote:
So much bravado, so limp dickie. This all just exposes his complete lack of coherence or vision in anything beyond the golf course. The beautiful thing about that Nuclear Deal, catching Iran doing what it's doing now would have instantly legitimized military action. Instead now it's Trump's withdrawal from the plan that legitimizes Iran.


:checkmark: :checkmark: Trump boxed himself into a corner when he withdrew from the Iran Nuclear Agreement; he now complains that the Iranians are breaking an agreement that he himself reneged on. Without that agreement, he has no leverage - and no support from most of our allies.

As the Associated Press reported, "Administration officials found themselves Monday grappling with whether to press the remaining parties to the deal, including Britain, France and Germany, to demand that Iran stay in compliance. They must also consider if such a stance would essentially concede that the restrictions imposed during the Obama administration, while short of ideal, are better than none.”

It’s almost like the previous administration weighed the pros and cons and made a decision in the best strategic interest of the country. That feeling you have right now is nostalgia for competence.
.

wingman wrote:
I think one happened here: Iran is correct that they blew that drone out of the sky inside their airspace, and I tend to believe those instant coordinates they produced over the vague bullshit put out by Central Command, and when Trump sees a Fox News divided the neurons start misfiring. Fox and Friends and Hannity were sounding the bugles into the left ear but Tuck and Shep yelled "stand down Mr. President" in the right ear. It must all be so confusing to Captain Jowls.


When the voices in his head are in conflict, I'll bet he starts thinking, "I wish I were on the golf course." And so he goes there.
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Redd
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
This is not your either/or conflict.

Oh? Trump said that by shooting down the drone "Iran made a very big mistake". Minutes later he changed his mind "I would imagine it was a general or somebody who made a mistake in shooting the drone down." Hours after that he approved a strike, knowing full well it would kill 150 people, and minutes before the strike he changed his mind--or Tuckjob Carlson changed his mind--and called off the strike, again lying that he just found out it would kill people. It may not be an 'either/or conflict' but Trump is managing to be Schroedinger's dotard on the issue, simultaneously attacking and not attacking Iran, while lying every step of the way, poorly.


Say what you will, Tucker is earning his libertarian stripes this week. He did an epic takedown of John Bolton in yesterday’s show:

https://youtu.be/-c0jMsspE7Y



Never thought I'd say this about Tucker, but wow. I'm pleasantly surprised.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:33 pm

Trump sends more mixed messages than a morse code operator with a stutter. ;)
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SCQ83
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:53 pm

I hope America will liberate Iran from the Ayatollahs ASAP.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:46 pm

It seems for some powerful US people, this is really just a game :

Image
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
alfa164
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:46 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Trump sends more mixed messages than a morse code operator with a stutter. ;)


... and he can't say he wasn't warned. Here's an interesting article:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... d-n1020461
Last edited by alfa164 on Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
VSMUT
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
Denmark
In October 2018, Denmark said the Iranian government intelligence service had tried to carry out a plot to assassinate an Iranian Arab opposition figure on its soil.[54] The planned assassination was of an exiled leader of the Arab Struggle Movement for the Liberation of Ahvaz (ASMLA). Sweden extradited a Norwegian national of Iranian background to Denmark in connection with the foiled plot against the ASMLA leader.[53][/i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_ ... ism#France


They never found any evidence of this, and eventually the police had to admit that all the intelligence came from Mossad.
 
mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:06 pm

VSMUT wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Denmark
In October 2018, Denmark said the Iranian government intelligence service had tried to carry out a plot to assassinate an Iranian Arab opposition figure on its soil.[54] The planned assassination was of an exiled leader of the Arab Struggle Movement for the Liberation of Ahvaz (ASMLA). Sweden extradited a Norwegian national of Iranian background to Denmark in connection with the foiled plot against the ASMLA leader.[53][/i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_ ... ism#France


They never found any evidence of this, and eventually the police had to admit that all the intelligence came from Mossad.


Can you provide a source disproving what the Danes still believe to be true?

Aesma wrote:
It seems for some powerful US people, this is really just a game :

Image


Who are these "powerful US people"? I have never heard a single name mentioned there. Do you know?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:19 pm

mham001 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Denmark
In October 2018, Denmark said the Iranian government intelligence service had tried to carry out a plot to assassinate an Iranian Arab opposition figure on its soil.[54] The planned assassination was of an exiled leader of the Arab Struggle Movement for the Liberation of Ahvaz (ASMLA). Sweden extradited a Norwegian national of Iranian background to Denmark in connection with the foiled plot against the ASMLA leader.[53][/i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_ ... ism#France


They never found any evidence of this, and eventually the police had to admit that all the intelligence came from Mossad.


Can you provide a source disproving what the Danes still believe to be true?


https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE1 ... tatplaner/

The entire case has slowly unraveled. It is one big joke that they are now sweeping under the carpet. All they have is a radicalized Norwegian immigrant.
 
Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:43 pm

mham001 wrote:
bombings

In any case, there were no 'bombings".
It certainly looks as if you are trying to sell us a Mossad false flag operation anyway.
There's no 'there" there,, Iran is not a terrorist state. Why don't you just stick with the truth?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:51 pm

Georges Malbrunot is a well known French journalist, specialist of the Near East, he has lived in Iraq in particular. He was kept hostage by the Islamic Army in Iraq for 4 months in 2004.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
oschkosch
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:20 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I hope America will liberate Iran from the Ayatollahs ASAP.
And many people wish to see America liberated from their Trumpatollah.....

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mham001
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:49 pm

Aesma wrote:

I'm talking about the content of the tweet, of course. Who do you think would be asking for tit for tat saving face bombings to Iran, an intern at the state department ?


Sure, I believe every tweet I read spreading some obscure conspiracy rumor and use it as a source. Right.

The first point, Trump doesn't need to "save face". And what dumbass would believe Iran would let the US freely bomb it? Ridiculous, but we get lots of that here.
 
alfa164
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:12 pm

Gentlemen... we have allowed one determined troll. propagandist. spin-doctor poster to hijack this thread and turn it into an argument about everything except what is happening in the Gulf of Oman, and the White House response to that. I would respectfully suggest we resist the temptation to reply to these off-topic, incendiary, and insulting comments, and get back to the topic of this thread.
.

For starters, it appears the the president's own favorite network is questioning his statements (and I am sure a barrage of tweets will emerge by morning):

https://www.krdo.com/news/national-world/fox-news-hosts-question-trumps-comments-about-iran/1088474806

Surely they they were aware that Tucker Carlson had already pled with him to avoid escalating the conflict, and reports indicate that was definitely an influencing factor. Instead of an airstrike, Trump now says he will initiate "major sanctions" on Iran.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48732672

My questions are.... didn't he already impose "major sanctions" on Iran? What additional sanctions might be imposed? And would the rest of the world agree to enforce them - or seek ways to circumvent any unilateral U.S. action, as they seem to be doing now?
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Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Unless Trump reverses direction, this is just the lull before the storm. And it is close to impossible for Trump to reverse direction as he has all the pressure of Israel pushing on him as well as the sicko Saudi tribes people chomping at the bit to get something started.


Meanwhile, Iran isn't going to be giving an inch; Hassan Rouhani can sure as hell outlast Donald Trump.
 
alfa164
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:04 am

Spar wrote:
Unless Trump reverses direction, this is just the lull before the storm. And it is close to impossible for Trump to reverse direction as he has all the pressure of Israel pushing on him as well as the sicko Saudi tribes people chomping at the bit to get something started. Meanwhile, Iran isn't going to be giving an inch; Hassan Rouhani can sure as hell outlast Donald Trump.


:checkmark: I like readytotaxi's description:

readytotaxi wrote:
Trump sends more mixed messages than a morse code operator with a stutter. ;)
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Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:19 am

U.S. Carried Out Cyberattacks on Iran
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/22/us/p ... tacks.html

The question that pops up in my mind is if you know exactly where and when someone is going to launch a cyber attack on you, doesn't that hand you a perfect opportunity to capture their attack and determine exactly how their technology works?

And according to the MSM for about the last 24 hours, the US was about to launch the attack that they say that they've just launched.


*shakes head*
 
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scbriml
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:56 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I hope America will liberate Iran from the Ayatollahs ASAP.


Yeah, because that's worked so well in the past.
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B777LRF
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:55 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I hope America will liberate Iran from the Ayatollahs ASAP.


I suppose it's at this point someone mentions, that the last time the US 'liberated' the Iranian people, it eventually ended up with the Ayatollah's taking the reign.
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SCQ83
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:56 pm

scbriml wrote:
Yeah, because that's worked so well in the past.


Sadam and Gaddafi are gone.

B777LRF wrote:
I suppose it's at this point someone mentions, that the last time the US 'liberated' the Iranian people, it eventually ended up with the Ayatollah's taking the reign.


2019 is not 1979.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:49 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
2019 is not 1979.


That is very clever of you, well done. Would you be feeling better about it if 2003 was closer to 2019?

Besides, the 'liberation' I talked off took place in 1953. Since that's even further away, and I doubt you have access to such things as 'history books', I fear this may only serve to continue the cranial over-flights.

You may be right the people of Iraq and Libya are feeling better having had the yoke of a seriously deranged dictator cast away.

It may also be, however, that they're rather fed up living in a place that's been reduced to rubble, running the risk of having a jihadist blow them to smithereens every day, trying to manage an utterly collapsed economy, where sanitation, infrastructure, education and health services are virtually non-existent. As are the chances of having a job, living a life, supporting a family and enjoying yourself just a bit.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 pm

If you don't learn from the mistakes of the past, etc, etc, etc.
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Spar
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:11 pm

Like the great statesman he is, Trump warns Iran of ’obliteration like you’ve never seen before’. While Iranian radar operators scan the sky for their next opportunity for drone plinking. It's not hard to see where this is headed.


The Israeli plan to make the entire Middle East look just like the Gaza strip seems to be completely on track. And the dumbfuck Saudi's don't know that they'll be next.
 
LMP737
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:31 am

mham001 wrote:

Iran is backed in a corner, they may not survive the sanctions through Trumps term. .


Like how Cuba didn't survive sanctions for forty plus years?
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LMP737
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:48 am

mham001 wrote:
. If they continue to push, even a US response does not mean we invade, when they were blowing up tankers and hit a US military ship, we destroyed their navy. Iran stopped. This is the type of response that might be appropriate in the future. Don't expect Trump to invade Iran with the goal of regime change - it won't happen.

"On April 14, 1988, the U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts, a frigate, hit an Iranian naval mine while sailing in the Persian Gulf. The explosion injured 10 of her crew and nearly sank the ship. Four days later, the U.S. Navy destroyed half the Iranian fleet in a matter of hours. Iran did not molest the Navy or international shipping for many years thereafter." https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/opin ... ttack.html

And for some background on Iran's recent naval history...https://warisboring.com/all-the-times-t ... ss-kicked/

This is not your either/or conflict.


Nice history lesson, but this isn't 1988. Iran is no longer locked in a life and death struggle with Iraq. I'm sure they learned lessons from that engagement as well. In addition back then the USN would not send carriers into the Persian Gulf. The Straits of Hormuz would be a very dangerous place for a carrier if shooting were to start.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Big trouble in the Gulf of Oman

Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:53 am

LMP737 wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Iran is backed in a corner, they may not survive the sanctions through Trumps term. .


Like how Cuba didn't survive sanctions for forty plus years?


Not much of "sanctions" if you are pretty much the only country on earth who levied them against Cuba. Canadians are free to travel to Cuba, and so are Europeans. Not to mention people from Asia and Latin America.
Then again, Trump could pull "an Iran" and demand the rest of the world place sanctions on Cuba... "OR ELSE!!".
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