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jdstJD
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Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:30 am

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-g ... nce-2019-6

Delta is facing some backlash on its decision to remain neutral on the Georgia heartbeat abortion law. I don’t take issue with their decision. I understand what Bastian is saying about not wanting to alienate millions of people on the side of the issue that is not the side the company took. Especially given the large numbers of employees and loyal customers. I don’t think companies should be socially penalized for not wanting to enter into social or political debates. But at the same time, there have been times that I have felt more inclined to give my business to companies that did take a stand on a particular political or moral issue that aligned with my view. One example was when Dicks Sporting Goods made the decision to no longer sell guns at their stores. I was impressed that they had the courage to make a business decision like that given their primary consumer base being pro-guns. I also recognize that corporate boycotts of states that have adopted discriminatory laws have brought about significant social change. I’m a little torn on the issue. Curious how you all feel about this.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 am

I know what side I'm on, but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.
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stl07
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:50 am

Delta already learned their lesson on speaking out last time after the nra thing and the fuel tax
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Tugger
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:59 am

stl07 wrote:
Delta already learned their lesson on speaking out last time after the nra thing and the fuel tax

That is exactly why you speak out!

I take it you are silenced?

Tugg
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:32 am

Good. Companies need to keep their mouths shut. Why needlessly alienate half of your customers?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:39 am

DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...

TTailedTiger wrote:
Good. Companies need to keep their mouths shut. Why needlessly alienate half of your customers?


Because you always alienate the rest? If you alienate some of your customers, better offend those on the wrong side of the argument.
You can no more not hold a position on something any more than you can not communicate.

Best regards
Thomas
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LittleSprocket
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:48 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...

TTailedTiger wrote:
Good. Companies need to keep their mouths shut. Why needlessly alienate half of your customers?


Because you always alienate the rest? If you alienate some of your customers, better offend those on the wrong side of the argument.
You can no more not hold a position on something any more than you can not communicate.

Best regards
Thomas


Who are you to dictate what is the wrong side of an argument?

Delta did what any reputable business would do. Their SOLE purpose is to make money for their stockholders, taking a side on a social issue that could alienate millions of customers and a good chunk of their employees would cause them significant issues. If you think slighting the NRA caused backlash, just think what financial repercussions they would receive for going against a larger chunk of your customers closely held beliefs...not to mention your employee base.
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:05 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Who are you to dictate what is the wrong side of an argument?


Even Republicans say it is unenforceable because it is unconstitutional, and that it is deliberately designed to get it to the supreme court. So taht question isn't even really there. Wade vs. Roe is settled law of the land, or are you implying the latest supreme court judge lied about that in his conformation hearing?

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Thomas
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Magog
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:52 am

tommy1808 wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Who are you to dictate what is the wrong side of an argument?


Even Republicans say it is unenforceable because it is unconstitutional, and that it is deliberately designed to get it to the supreme court. So taht question isn't even really there. Wade vs. Roe is settled law of the land, or are you implying the latest supreme court judge lied about that in his conformation hearing?

Delta is not a court of law. They made the right call here.

I get that you want businesses to be social justice warriors. Sometimes that doesn’t end well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -down.html
 
Airstud
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:41 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:06 am

Airstud wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.


I didnt say seither side was.

Magog wrote:
They made the right call here.


There is no way of telling. If it gets more people to decide not to chose Delta for their travel as a different positioning would have, it is a disservice to its shareholders. The data to judge that can never be obtained.

I get that you want businesses to be social justice warriors. Sometimes that doesn’t end well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -down.html


Of course you do know that the man tax had it go bankcrupt and no other Management failing.... and of course you overlooked the tiny but that they didn't make an ethically driven policy decision with the man tax, but a PR one, and obviously didn't consider that most people that worry about sexism don't react any better to reverse sexism either. Your source is therefore just as much evidence against the point you are trying to make as for it, and hence neutral in this discussion.

The Financial Times Stock Exchange Index was used for comparitive performance study on the yields of "conventional", "islamic" and "ethical" investment schemes and found the FTSE good index to outperformed the others, while the other two where awash.

Beat regards
Thomas
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aviationaware
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:10 pm

Companies should stay out of politics. Hats off to Delta's management for having realized that.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:26 pm

Airstud wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.


It actually kind of is, but not for the reason he is thinking...
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ltbewr
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:40 pm

There are millions of reasons not to take sides in the Georgia State anti-abortion law - the potential loss of millions in tax benefits if the company leaders were to speak against the law. They have seen the backlash in state and across the country from the entertainment industry, trades persons and actors objecting to the new law and could face the loss of tax breaks for the industry. Delta also has 1000's of employees who support the law and don't want to divide them.

One problem will be if a GA based female DA employee (or those residing other states imposing similar anti-abortion laws) trying to get an abortion and facing difficulty paying for it with their company health care benefits by having to go to a state where legal without the restrictions.
 
NoTime
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:48 pm

"(An Airline) declines to take sides in abortion debate" - The sheer absurdity of that headline speaks volumes about the situation we find ourselves in today. The SJW's and, specifically, critical theorists won't be happy until absolutely every aspect of our lives is turned into a confrontation between ideologies.

I'm happy to see folks are (mostly) still able to see the ridiculousness of these things.
 
afcjets
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion deba

Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:22 pm

Liberals can boycott American because Caitlyn Jenner can’t legally enter the women’s room at their second largest hub, and Delta because a woman can’t get an abortion at their largest hub. AA could build a secondary airport for Charlotte 10 miles south in SC and DL could relocate their hub to CHA and connect to Atlanta via high speed rail, it’s only about 75 miles away if that. In the meantime, there’s always United.

Seriously though, it seems this is the direction our country is headed.
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:31 pm

ltbewr wrote:
One problem will be if a GA based female DA employee (or those residing other states imposing similar anti-abortion laws) trying to get an abortion and facing difficulty paying for it with their company health care benefits by having to go to a state where legal without the restrictions.


I am pretty sure Delta doesn't pay for abortions as part of their health plan.
 
texdravid
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:44 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Companies should stay out of politics. Hats off to Delta's management for having realized that.


100%

People use Delta to fly, nothing more, nothing less.
Stay neutral and avoid ticking off any potential customer.

Wish some other industries would do that. Like Hollywood.
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blueflyer
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:08 pm

There is not a clear winning argument here.

On the one hand, it could be argued that anyone who does not clearly oppose the status quo at the very least acquiesces to it, if not supporting it outright. There are situations where being neutral, or more importantly, perceived as neutral, is virtually impossible nowadays.

On the other hand, not publicly taking sides avoids the unmistakable offense to the supporters of one side over the other.

Which way a company goes will depend on multiple factors. I think Netflix made the right call, but I also think Delta made the right call.

LittleSprocket wrote:
Their SOLE purpose is to make money for their stockholders, taking a side on a social issue that could alienate millions of customers and a good chunk of their employees would cause them significant issues.

And poof go millions of dollars spent on marketing research telling companies they need a vision and a mission statement.... They just want to make money!
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:53 pm

stl07 wrote:
Delta already learned their lesson on speaking out last time after the nra thing and the fuel tax

Then they double downed saying they'll move their HQ and that guy lost the gubernatorial election.
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anrec80
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:53 pm

Well - why should Delta take any sides in an abortion matter? They are an air carrier, not a healthcare-related or wellness business or non-profit. It’s not what they are in business of simply.
 
Magog
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:47 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Well - why should Delta take any sides in an abortion matter? They are an air carrier, not a healthcare-related or wellness business or non-profit. It’s not what they are in business of simply.

Because SJWs demand it.
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:48 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Companies should stay out of politics.


That depends. Sometimes, politics are related to that company's business. I sit on a board of a local managed-care Medi-Cal insurance carrier and they have political officers who monitor and lobby for/against various political causes related to healthcare policy.

But the abortion issue is too far removed from the airline business and it's way too polarized for DL to be wading into it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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seb146
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:51 am

I thought "corporations are people, my friend" so why doesn't this person voice their opinion?

All snark aside, it is about time a company just shut up and do what makes them money instead of voicing their opinion. Transport people, sell chicken sandwiches, change oil, what have you. Stop politicizing people and just make money like you are supposed to.
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Aesma
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:35 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but Delta is supporting LGBTQ rights, isn't that taking sides ?
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:18 am

Aesma wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Delta is supporting LGBTQ rights, isn't that taking sides ?


Different issue altogether. Delta is more connected to that because they have many LGBTQ customers and employees who look to them for the support.

Abortion is not connected in any way, shape, or form to Delta's operation/customers.
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Airstud
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:27 am

Aesma wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Delta is supporting LGBTQ rights, isn't that taking sides ?


This might just be the view from a 16-year San Francisco resident who now resides in Minneapolis, but it looks like LGBTQ is a less raging debate than it used to be. The Obergefell ruling - authored by a Reagan-appointed justice - seems to have informed a number of loudmouths (though not all of them) that the gay ain't going away.
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Redd
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:28 am

tommy1808 wrote:
better offend those on the wrong side of the argument.


While I probably have the same stance as you when it comes to abortion, it must be said, that in the name of good you're sounding a lot like Hitler or Stalin...... or any other despot dictator for that matter.
 
seb146
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Delta is supporting LGBTQ rights, isn't that taking sides ?


The right to have a job without getting fired for who you love?
The right to have a roof over your head regardless of who you love?
The right to serve in the military regardless of who you love?

You mean that?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:34 pm

I mean it's very political in the US, yet they took a side.

I'm a man and I think laws about abortion should be made by women only.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
I mean it's very political in the US, yet they took a side.

I'm a man and I think laws about abortion should be made by women only.


Hmmm. I know I’m the one who started the thread and that this thread isn’t about the abortion issue itself but your post brought another conundrum of mine to mind. I am not one who believes abortion should be outlawed by any means. My concern is that some feel as you do, which is that women should be the only ones who have a say in whether to go forward with a pregnancy. Of course in instances of rape or incest and perhaps under other circumstances sure that should be the case. But I don’t know that it’s fair for men generally to not have any say. If men had the capability to bare children then they would have more of a choice as to whether the woman should have the baby but if he and his wife or girlfriend become pregnant, how is it fair that he has no say at all whether he gets to have his child born? What if the man married the love of his life and they plan in the beginning to have children. The wife subsequently becomes pregnant but decides that she has changed her mind and does not want to have the baby. Is it right for the man to simply be forced to have to not have his child? He may not want to be have to end the relationship with the woman he loves and go find another women just to be able to procreate. I could see a man in that position being totally devastated and not having anything whatsoever to be able to do about that loss. I don’t know. It just bothers me.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:37 am

Redd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
better offend those on the wrong side of the argument.


While I probably have the same stance as you when it comes to abortion, it must be said, that in the name of good you're sounding a lot like Hitler or Stalin...... or any other despot dictator for that matter.


The rule of law is a dictator... that is the whole point of a state of law: enforce it.
A dictator, a person confusing him or herself with the law, would have had the law giving body shot....

Best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:44 am

jdstJD wrote:
But I don’t know that it’s fair for men generally to not have any say. If men had the capability to bare children then they would have more of a choice as to whether the woman should have the baby but if he and his wife or girlfriend become pregnant, how is it fair that he has no say at all whether he gets to have his child born?


If it is fair or not is irrelevant. There are biological differences and that men, by virtue of not having a mumu, as Monty Python put it, can't bear children on their own is about as unfair as men being able to pee standing up or men being less susceptible to bladder infections.
A few mililitres of protein mix dont give a man any more ownership over a woman's reproductive organs than planting a flag in neighbour's garden makes it your property.

Best regards
Thomas
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afcjets
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:55 am

tommy1808 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
But I don’t know that it’s fair for men generally to not have any say. If men had the capability to bare children then they would have more of a choice as to whether the woman should have the baby but if he and his wife or girlfriend become pregnant, how is it fair that he has no say at all whether he gets to have his child born?


If it is fair or not is irrelevant. There are biological differences and that men, by virtue of not having a mumu, as Monty Python put it, can't bear children on their own is about as unfair as men being able to pee standing up or men being less susceptible to bladder infections.
A few mililitres of protein mix dont give a man any more ownership over a woman's reproductive organs than planting a flag in neighbour's garden makes it your property.

Best regards
Thomas


Yet a man would have to pay child support for that kid until it’s 18 and could face jail time for falling behind.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:41 am

afcjets wrote:
Yet a man would have to pay child support for that kid until it’s 18 and could face jail time for falling behind.


what does that have to do with anything? If he gets custody of the child the same rules apply to her after all.

If you borrow something and break it, you pay for it, whether the lender would break it afterwards anyways or not.

best regards
Thomas
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Redd
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Redd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
better offend those on the wrong side of the argument.



A dictator, a person confusing him or herself with the law,

Best regards
Thomas


And confusing yourself with someone who knows what the right and wrong argument is?

The fact is that you'll never convince someone to change their mind on a topic by accusing them of being wrong, forcing your opinion on them or putting them down. Those are all quick ways to make an enemy... People grow up and form opinions in different ways, and as absurd as some people's beliefs are according to you, there is probably a very strong reason as to why they think what they think. If you can be friends with someone who has the opposite opinions of you, you've made the first positive step towards dialogue, which is the first step in a pleasant and peaceful coexistence with your fellow human beings.

And while I agree with your stance on abortion, I try to understand why people who think the opposite think the way they do.
 
KFTG
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:24 am

What "abortion debate"? Roe vs. Wade is settled law.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:29 am

Redd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Redd wrote:


A dictator, a person confusing him or herself with the law,

Best regards
Thomas


And confusing yourself with someone who knows what the right and wrong argument is?


No, i am "confusing" the supreme court as someone who knows that is right and wrong, or are you implying that Brett Kavanaugh lied to congress when he called Roe vs. Wade sattledt law of the land in his confirmation hearing?

The fact is that you'll never convince someone to change their mind on a topic by accusing them of being wrong, forcing your opinion on them or putting them down.


So if we had a discussion to bring slavery back you wouldn´t tell those in favor they are wrong, and as wrong as anyone can be for that matter?
You can give reasons on top of that, of course, but the "reasoning" part of Abortion is decade old, so telling them they are wrong is the kind thing to say.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Aesma
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:47 am

jdstJD wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I mean it's very political in the US, yet they took a side.

I'm a man and I think laws about abortion should be made by women only.


Hmmm. I know I’m the one who started the thread and that this thread isn’t about the abortion issue itself but your post brought another conundrum of mine to mind. I am not one who believes abortion should be outlawed by any means. My concern is that some feel as you do, which is that women should be the only ones who have a say in whether to go forward with a pregnancy. Of course in instances of rape or incest and perhaps under other circumstances sure that should be the case. But I don’t know that it’s fair for men generally to not have any say.


I have thought about this a lot, having been put in that situation. My answer is simple, leave men out of the equation entirely, that is, no mandatory child support.

There is that thing called marriage that is supposed to mean people want a family, so give people a tax break for marrying, and obligations regarding children go with it. No marriage, no obligation.

You mentioned the case of a married woman not wanting the child when the father would want it, this is going to end in tears either way, so no need to involve a child in that mess.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:04 pm

Aesma wrote:
no mandatory child support..


Than money belongs to the kid if born, and that is the then person that had absolutely no choice in the process.

jdstJD wrote:
Is it right for the man to simply be forced to have to not have his child?.


It may be his offspring, but it is not his child, nor is it hers. Children are not property..Her Uterus however is as much her personal property as anything ever can be.

And what is the alternative? Forcing a woman to bear child and give birth?

Biology doesn´t have to be fair, and it isn´t. Same goes for love.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Redd
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:09 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Redd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:


And confusing yourself with someone who knows what the right and wrong argument is?


No, i am "confusing" the supreme court as someone who knows that is right and wrong, or are you implying that Brett Kavanaugh lied to congress when he called Roe vs. Wade sattledt law of the land in his confirmation hearing?


I'm in the stage of my life where I'm trying not to keep up with politics which doesn't directly involve me. So plz give me another example as I'm not quite sure what you're asking me.


The fact is that you'll never convince someone to change their mind on a topic by accusing them of being wrong, forcing your opinion on them or putting them down.

tommy1808 wrote:
So if we had a discussion to bring slavery back you wouldn´t tell those in favour they are wrong, and as wrong as anyone can be for that matter?
You can give reasons on top of that, of course, but the "reasoning" part of Abortion is decade old, so telling them they are wrong is the kind thing to say.

best regards
Thomas


That's a strawman argument as slavery is socially/ethically comparable to murder, and it is universally accepted as a wrong. There is no risk of it ever returning to western society, solely from the fact that slavery was economically driven. Today we have little union protection and cheap labour, most often performed by immigrants who fill those roles.

Abortion is a different issue altogether. Most people who are against abortion, honestly believe that what they want is for the greater good. So how do you solve the problem of two opposing ideologies which both believe that their ideology is the proper one? You're not going to do that by insulting the other side.
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:56 pm

Airstud wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
but I agree. I don't think this is related to the airline business.


I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.


Except that abortion has killed far more humans than the Holocaust did.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:57 pm

Redd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Redd wrote:

And confusing yourself with someone who knows what the right and wrong argument is?


No, i am "confusing" the supreme court as someone who knows that is right and wrong, or are you implying that Brett Kavanaugh lied to congress when he called Roe vs. Wade sattledt law of the land in his confirmation hearing?


I'm in the stage of my life where I'm trying not to keep up with politics which doesn't directly involve me. So plz give me another example as I'm not quite sure what you're asking me.


The question at hand was decided by Roe v. Wade over 40 years ago. It is considered sattledt law (i.e. can´t be changed), which just recently has been confirmed by the new Judge Brett Kavanaugh.


That's a strawman argument as slavery is socially/ethically comparable to murder, and it is universally accepted as a wrong


but it wasn´t socially/ethically comparable to murder back in the day. A civil war broke out over keeping slaves way back when. Given the very few red and black places on this Map ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_ ... n_Laws.svg ) i´d say the abortion question is much more settled than slavery was at the time a couple of million US citizens committed treason over that...

Most people who are against abortion, honestly believe that what they want is for the greater good.


can you quantify that statement "most people"? Because the people writing this law sure as hell didn´t.... In vitro fertilized fetuses are not included, obviously the "Babies" life only matters when it is in a womans body, outside it can just be tossed away...
And even if the majority thinks about the "greater good", how many of them mean "biblical law/offends God" when they say "greater good"?

So how do you solve the problem of two opposing ideologies which both believe that their ideology is the proper one?


again, as it is sattledt law, just as slavery, honor killings and duelling. They can believe whatever the hell they want, that they are wrong is a settled question.

Offense is taken, not given, that is how "offense" works. If people want to be offended, that is their choice unless i use language clearly intended to be offensive. Being told to be wrong isn´t a swearword.

And of course you need to be a strict vegan to make any valid point against aborting quite a bit down the pregnancy....

best regards
Thomas
Last edited by tommy1808 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tommy1808
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:00 pm

slider wrote:
Airstud wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.


Except that abortion has killed far more humans than the Holocaust did.


and both a dwarfed by spontaneous abort, which is completely indistinguishable from chemical aborts.... the very reason why women in El Salvador often have to face murder charges after losing their child. The exact same result this law would have, as both cases are, as mentioned, completely indistinguishable.

best regards
Thomas
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Aesma
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:40 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
no mandatory child support..


Than money belongs to the kid if born, and that is the then person that had absolutely no choice in the process.


In our societies, all children are welcome, with low numbers of children born already. The state can take care of them if the mother is inadequate.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:42 pm

Aesma wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
no mandatory child support..


Than money belongs to the kid if born, and that is the then person that had absolutely no choice in the process.


In our societies, all children are welcome, with low numbers of children born already. The state can take care of them if the mother is inadequate.


So instead of the father, who had the fun after all, everyone should pay for them? If the parents can't, fine....

Best regards
Thomas
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Pi7472000
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:10 pm

As a large employer in Georgia Delta needs to speak out! All airlines have benefited from tax payer support over the years and Delta needs to take a stand in support of women and speak out against a disgusting law that aims to control women and their bodies. It is great to see so many companies speak out in support of the LGBTQ+ community, and now we need to support a woman’s right to control her own body. For Delta to stay silent would be awful.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:15 pm

slider wrote:
Airstud wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

I have the feeling that plenty of people at IBM or ITT have wished at times they hadn't looked at ethical and business questions as separate items...



Being on one side or the other of the abortion debate is actually not at all like perpetrating the Holocaust.


Except that abortion has killed far more humans than the Holocaust did.


How many living humans have been killed in the U.S. due to lack of affordable healthcare, unnecessary wars started by conservatives, prejudice against minority groups, lack of education, failure to have access to finical support due to disability, access to fresh food, prejudice, lack of mental healthcare support, lack of gun control, failure to fund medical research, and many more issues. It is very hypocritical for conservatives to call themselves “pro-life” when they do not even fund basic social and economic services for people who are actually living on their own and are not a fetus that relies on the mother’s body to live.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:21 pm

jdstJD wrote:
https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-georgia-abortion-law-airline-not-taking-stance-2019-6

Delta is facing some backlash on its decision to remain neutral on the Georgia heartbeat abortion law. I don’t take issue with their decision. I understand what Bastian is saying about not wanting to alienate millions of people on the side of the issue that is not the side the company took. Especially given the large numbers of employees and loyal customers. I don’t think companies should be socially penalized for not wanting to enter into social or political debates. But at the same time, there have been times that I have felt more inclined to give my business to companies that did take a stand on a particular political or moral issue that aligned with my view. One example was when Dicks Sporting Goods made the decision to no longer sell guns at their stores. I was impressed that they had the courage to make a business decision like that given their primary consumer base being pro-guns. I also recognize that corporate boycotts of states that have adopted discriminatory laws have brought about significant social change. I’m a little torn on the issue. Curious how you all feel about this.


Dick Sporting Goods are a bunch of hypocrites. They announced a ban on guns back in 2012 already. But later, quietly started selling again.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/12/1 ... ok-tragedy

And now they come again with a ban? Sure!!!

(Won't last very long)
 
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Re: Delta airlines declines to take sides in abortion debate

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:35 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
It is very hypocritical for conservatives to call themselves “pro-life” when they do not even fund basic social and economic services for people who are actually living on their own and are not a fetus that relies on the mother’s body to live.


Plus removing sex-ed from schools wherever they can, and getting teens pregnant to begin with.....

Best regards
Thomas
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