NIKV69
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:26 pm

jdstJD wrote:

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system.



You do realize that you can prevent yourself from being thrown in jail by not breaking the law right?
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
afcjets
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm

jdstJD wrote:
Oh my Gosh!! You have literally hit all of the talking points that the Faux News Channel quacks hypnotize their viewers with. First of all:

No, black unemployment is not at its lowest point because of anything this idiot has done. It takes annual cycles and models that show changes over time to show increases or decreases regarding things like employment numbers. It was the politics of President Obama that led to the downward trends in unemployment. This is further evidenced by the fact that none of the policies the idiot touted during his farce of a campaign that he claimed would generate higher employment had even been implemented and still haven’t been implemented. He can’t claim success over a damn thing.

Second of all: his pardoning of the lady (not as you call her “that black woman”) had nothing to do with a fondness of black people or regard for the problems that caused the unfair sentence she was serving to begin with. That’s all the idiot is about, showmanship! He does one act to try to show he understand or cares about something but has demonstrated the exact opposite every other day of this life. You all act like blacks don’t know the idiot from watching his behavior over the last 50 years since he began his career in New York. Blacks’ disdain for him didn’t start when he weaseled his way into the White House. You all are the ones who were oblivious to who he really was before he wandered his way into politics, not us. So stop chalking what we are criticizing him about up to our just not wanting to give him credit for the half-ass stuff he is pretending to do.

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system. There has been one piece of legislation that is aimed at releasing people who have met some criteria set by a bunch of novices who have no idea about the depths and multi faceted nature of the problems. These people reject those in academia and social sciences who have studied the issues and who have provided policy makers with the information need to address the real problems, including reparations, but those policy makers take and reject what they want for political reasons. It’s bs.

Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.


While we may disagree on a lot, most of your posts I respect but this one I would read and have no idea it came from you. Why did it offend you when I called her that black woman Trump pardoned? Those zero tolerance policies disproportionately and unfairly affected black Americans and we are discussing racism in the criminal justice system and Trump was of course blamed for it on the second post, so her race is totally relevant to the discussion. As far as you giving Obama credit for Trump's economy. His last year in office growth was 1.6 percent and it doubled to 3 percent during Trump's first 18 month precisely because of Trump's policies, mainly ending punitive regulations in key industries, finally making America's corporate tax rate competitive with other countries, and of course his tax cuts which percentage wise mostly went to the middle class but of course since the wealthy already pay the vast majority of all taxes, any tax cut will dollar wise mostly come from them unless they are completely excluded. Most importantly, you do not speak for all black people.
 
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seb146
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:18 pm

afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Calling people racists WITH NO FACTS??? Are you kidding me?? No, we will improve race relations when people, who the MAGA group is vastly made up of, take their blinders off that are keeping them from acknowledging the clear FACTS that prove the racism. Trump says and does things every day that are racist and so so many of his supporters. The problem does lie with his enabling supporters. They continually shave off these FACTS that’s demonstrate the racism from the objectively determined definition of racism so that they can say something isn’t racism. Eventually they will have shaved off so much from the definition of racism that nothing will be considered racism anymore.


Do you mean like the fact that black unemployment is the lowest it's ever been under his Presidency, the fact that he pardoned that black woman from AL who was serving an unfair sentence, the fact that he got prison reform passed which Obama couldn't, or would you rather focus on the fact that the fake media has perpetuated the lie that Trump called white supremacists in Charlottesville very fine people, when he made it clear he was only talking about the people there who only wanted to preserve monuments, and in a follow up question during the same Q&A condemned white supremacists.

"Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 39815.html


And, yet, he has done ZERO to stop racist based attacks by his own followers. Not even one tweet or media release saying anything like "hey, guys, not cool" or "hey, we are all Americans" like Bush and Obama did. It was not a counter protester who murdered neo Nazis. It was a neo Nazi who ran down counter protesters. The group in Charlottesville marching for white rights.

I am going to stick to my own demands and stay in the present. Proud Boys are still out there marching for white rights and beating up anyone who marches against them.. MAGA fan base are still out there demanding Mexicans be locked up and deported, no questions asked. A neo Nazi group has organized a "straight pride" march in Boston because they are so hurt that they have only had 300+ years of rule in this country they demand a special day for them or something....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:28 pm

afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Oh my Gosh!! You have literally hit all of the talking points that the Faux News Channel quacks hypnotize their viewers with. First of all:

No, black unemployment is not at its lowest point because of anything this idiot has done. It takes annual cycles and models that show changes over time to show increases or decreases regarding things like employment numbers. It was the politics of President Obama that led to the downward trends in unemployment. This is further evidenced by the fact that none of the policies the idiot touted during his farce of a campaign that he claimed would generate higher employment had even been implemented and still haven’t been implemented. He can’t claim success over a damn thing.

Second of all: his pardoning of the lady (not as you call her “that black woman”) had nothing to do with a fondness of black people or regard for the problems that caused the unfair sentence she was serving to begin with. That’s all the idiot is about, showmanship! He does one act to try to show he understand or cares about something but has demonstrated the exact opposite every other day of this life. You all act like blacks don’t know the idiot from watching his behavior over the last 50 years since he began his career in New York. Blacks’ disdain for him didn’t start when he weaseled his way into the White House. You all are the ones who were oblivious to who he really was before he wandered his way into politics, not us. So stop chalking what we are criticizing him about up to our just not wanting to give him credit for the half-ass stuff he is pretending to do.

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system. There has been one piece of legislation that is aimed at releasing people who have met some criteria set by a bunch of novices who have no idea about the depths and multi faceted nature of the problems. These people reject those in academia and social sciences who have studied the issues and who have provided policy makers with the information need to address the real problems, including reparations, but those policy makers take and reject what they want for political reasons. It’s bs.

Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.


While we may disagree on a lot, most of your posts I respect but this one I would read and have no idea it came from you. Why did it offend you when I called her that black woman Trump pardoned? Those zero tolerance policies disproportionately and unfairly affected black Americans and we are discussing racism in the criminal justice system and Trump was of course blamed for it on the second post, so her race is totally relevant to the discussion. As far as you giving Obama credit for Trump's economy. His last year in office growth was 1.6 percent and it doubled to 3 percent during Trump's first 18 month precisely because of Trump's policies, mainly ending punitive regulations in key industries, finally making America's corporate tax rate competitive with other countries, and of course his tax cuts which percentage wise mostly went to the middle class but of course since the wealthy already pay the vast majority of all taxes, any tax cut will dollar wise mostly come from them unless they are completely excluded. Most importantly, you do not speak for all black people.


Zero tolerance gives cover to nationalists on police forces.

https://www.revealnews.org/article/insi ... amophobia/
https://www.theroot.com/philadelphia-ya ... 1835689196
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-nort ... t_i_1.html

As was pointed out earlier, whites have a preconceived notion about minorities. Even me. I sit and observe. As opposed to some who sit and seethe or start shouting and calling 911 for families having a picnic or mowing their lawn.

I have a theory about the MAGA base. I think they have been told for years and years by AM talk radio and Fox "news" they are victims and not being served and not being listened to by the government that some believe it. The MAGA base actually thinks they have been oppressed for decades and now, finally, they have a chance to have their voice heard by keeping the current occupant of the White House in office as long as possible. They believe that anyone calling out racism are the actual racists because how dare we shut out whites who have not been able to do anything.

As far as the economy, that is for another thread, but it was run into the ground in 2008 and started to rebound in 2009 and continued until today. Measurable growth started early in Obama's first term. Get over it already.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
slider
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:37 pm

I'm adding this to the viewing list. Time permitting, I hope I can hit it this week. Appreciate the recommendation.
 
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jdstJD
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:39 pm

afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Oh my Gosh!! You have literally hit all of the talking points that the Faux News Channel quacks hypnotize their viewers with. First of all:

No, black unemployment is not at its lowest point because of anything this idiot has done. It takes annual cycles and models that show changes over time to show increases or decreases regarding things like employment numbers. It was the politics of President Obama that led to the downward trends in unemployment. This is further evidenced by the fact that none of the policies the idiot touted during his farce of a campaign that he claimed would generate higher employment had even been implemented and still haven’t been implemented. He can’t claim success over a damn thing.

Second of all: his pardoning of the lady (not as you call her “that black woman”) had nothing to do with a fondness of black people or regard for the problems that caused the unfair sentence she was serving to begin with. That’s all the idiot is about, showmanship! He does one act to try to show he understand or cares about something but has demonstrated the exact opposite every other day of this life. You all act like blacks don’t know the idiot from watching his behavior over the last 50 years since he began his career in New York. Blacks’ disdain for him didn’t start when he weaseled his way into the White House. You all are the ones who were oblivious to who he really was before he wandered his way into politics, not us. So stop chalking what we are criticizing him about up to our just not wanting to give him credit for the half-ass stuff he is pretending to do.

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system. There has been one piece of legislation that is aimed at releasing people who have met some criteria set by a bunch of novices who have no idea about the depths and multi faceted nature of the problems. These people reject those in academia and social sciences who have studied the issues and who have provided policy makers with the information need to address the real problems, including reparations, but those policy makers take and reject what they want for political reasons. It’s bs.

Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.


While we may disagree on a lot, most of your posts I respect but this one I would read and have no idea it came from you. Why did it offend you when I called her that black woman Trump pardoned? Those zero tolerance policies disproportionately and unfairly affected black Americans and we are discussing racism in the criminal justice system and Trump was of course blamed for it on the second post, so her race is totally relevant to the discussion. As far as you giving Obama credit for Trump's economy. His last year in office growth was 1.6 percent and it doubled to 3 percent during Trump's first 18 month precisely because of Trump's policies, mainly ending punitive regulations in key industries, finally making America's corporate tax rate competitive with other countries, and of course his tax cuts which percentage wise mostly went to the middle class but of course since the wealthy already pay the vast majority of all taxes, any tax cut will dollar wise mostly come from them unless they are completely excluded. Most importantly, you do not speak for all black people.


You’re absolutely right. I don’t speak for all black people. I am speaking for myself and expressing my views on the issues raised throughout this thread. However, since I happen to belong to the group I talking about and have for the entire 40 years I’ve been on this planet along with all of my family, friends and the millions of blacks people who have been saying these same things, I feel pretty comfortable saying I speak for many of them. I’m sure you feel that you speak for many people as well when you share your opinion on these issues.

I also acknowledge that my post that you responded to is not my typical less-passionate tone. I am finding myself getting pretty angry about this and taking the argument too personally which is not what I intend to do on this or any other online site. It really shouldn’t be that serious. Therefore, I don’t really want to participate in this thread any longer. I respect your opinion and thanks for the engaging discussion.
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mham001
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:34 pm

jdstJD wrote:
Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.



The question I have, why haven't Democratic policies worked? It is not as if evil republicans have dominated politics everywhere all the time.

I'd also like to add that it is that very "diversity" thing you mentioned that is hurting the black community. Affirmative action programs meant for descendants of slaves are now benefits for everybody-but-whites and the embracement of illegals in Democratic controlled cities and states has had a demonstrable negative affect on the lower/middle class - dis proportionally affecting blacks. This was demonstrated in the UCLA study on black employment in Los Angeles.
I believe there is ample evidence that the unwavering support of democrats by large majorities of blacks is exactly what is holding them down.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:45 pm

mham001 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.



The question I have, why haven't Democratic policies worked? It is not as if evil republicans have dominated politics everywhere all the time.

I'd also like to add that it is that very "diversity" thing you mentioned that is hurting the black community. Affirmative action programs meant for descendants of slaves are now benefits for everybody-but-whites and the embracement of illegals in Democratic controlled cities and states has had a demonstrable negative affect on the lower/middle class - dis proportionally affecting blacks. This was demonstrated in the UCLA study on black employment in Los Angeles.
I believe there is ample evidence that the unwavering support of democrats by large majorities of blacks is exactly what is holding them down.


I'm not entirely sure where you got "affirmative action programs meant for the descendants of slaves" from. While the discussion of programs or policies to help Black people began as early as the late 1800s, the actual "affirmative action" policies that were put into law state very clearly that they are meant for minority or traditionally underrepresented groups in which a variety of identities fall into. I always think that the anti-affirmative action discussion is interesting because if it weren't for such policies, companies/schools/etc. would never have had any incentives to hire or look at people from those underrepresented groups.

Something that also confuses me is the lack of any alternatives presented by Republicans who seek to roll these efforts back. In a country that literally was built with the intention of minorities not even being citizens, obviously there are massive and systemic disadvantages that minorities face today. These don't just disappear in time in the absence of policies or frameworks to promote the reduction of a racial achievement gap.

The last thing I'll say in this post is to echo what someone else said, which is that the lack of serious leadership of minorities in the Republican party is definitely a huge hurdle to any argument that Republicans care more or somehow know how to solve these issues. It's hard to claim you know how to better the Black community with little or virtually no Black people on your team. Trump claims "Black unemployment is low" as if that's his nod to Black people, but the fact that he also walks the line of literally fostering racism (re: Charlottesville) invalidates any claim that Black people or Black issues are something he understands or is in any way personally invested in. (And before anyone says anything about Trump's exact statement on "both sides," I didn't claim that he was a racist. I said that he says and does things that enable racism. To take his statements at Charlottesville as anything other than enabling racism would be disingenuous in my mind.
 
BN747
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:06 pm

jdstJD wrote:
afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Calling people racists WITH NO FACTS??? Are you kidding me?? No, we will improve race relations when people, who the MAGA group is vastly made up of, take their blinders off that are keeping them from acknowledging the clear FACTS that prove the racism. Trump says and does things every day that are racist and so so many of his supporters. The problem does lie with his enabling supporters. They continually shave off these FACTS that’s demonstrate the racism from the objectively determined definition of racism so that they can say something isn’t racism. Eventually they will have shaved off so much from the definition of racism that nothing will be considered racism anymore.


Do you mean like the fact that black unemployment is the lowest it's ever been under his Presidency, the fact that he pardoned that black woman from AL who was serving an unfair sentence, the fact that he got prison reform passed which Obama couldn't, or would you rather focus on the fact that the fake media has perpetuated the lie that Trump called white supremacists in Charlottesville very fine people, when he made it clear he was only talking about the people there who only wanted to preserve monuments, and in a follow up question during the same Q&A condemned white supremacists.

"Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 39815.html


Oh my Gosh!! You have literally hit all of the talking points that the Faux News Channel quacks hypnotize their viewers with. First of all:

No, black unemployment is not at its lowest point because of anything this idiot has done. It takes annual cycles and models that show changes over time to show increases or decreases regarding things like employment numbers. It was the politics of President Obama that led to the downward trends in unemployment. This is further evidenced by the fact that none of the policies the idiot touted during his farce of a campaign that he claimed would generate higher employment had even been implemented and still haven’t been implemented. He can’t claim success over a damn thing.

Second of all: his pardoning of the lady (not as you call her “that black woman”) had nothing to do with a fondness of black people or regard for the problems that caused the unfair sentence she was serving to begin with. That’s all the idiot is about, showmanship! He does one act to try to show he understand or cares about something but has demonstrated the exact opposite every other day of this life. You all act like blacks don’t know the idiot from watching his behavior over the last 50 years since he began his career in New York. Blacks’ disdain for him didn’t start when he weaseled his way into the White House. You all are the ones who were oblivious to who he really was before he wandered his way into politics, not us. So stop chalking what we are criticizing him about up to our just not wanting to give him credit for the half-ass stuff he is pretending to do.

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system. There has been one piece of legislation that is aimed at releasing people who have met some criteria set by a bunch of novices who have no idea about the depths and multi faceted nature of the problems. These people reject those in academia and social sciences who have studied the issues and who have provided policy makers with the information need to address the real problems, including reparations, but those policy makers take and reject what they want for political reasons. It’s bs.

Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.


Boy! That's a much elegant answer to someone who certainly will learn 'absolutely nothing' from it...instead, he go back and dig up something super silly to toss out, rather than go lick his wounds.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:09 pm

slider wrote:
I'm adding this to the viewing list. Time permitting, I hope I can hit it this week. Appreciate the recommendation.


You are welcome, I seriously here...I look forward to hearing your comments.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:12 pm

mham001 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
Finally, I will say this. The fact that the idiot and the news/entertainers on faux news that he allows to run his presidency think that these few issues are all black people care about and are dealing with in society is glaring proof that they have no regard for the complexities of our lives and experiences and interests. They go by their limited knowledge of what we’re about and what we really care about which is broader than the negative, down trodden, sad, unfortunate issues that you all associate with us. This is why we are more aligned with democrats. With there being more diversity in the party, there are more perspectives that formulate policy initiatives that we can actually engage in. Republicans are so ignorant and blinded by what they THINK they know that the things that do have no real effect on anyone other than themselves and who they relate to...which isn’t us.



The question I have, why haven't Democratic policies worked? It is not as if evil republicans have dominated politics everywhere all the time.

I'd also like to add that it is that very "diversity" thing you mentioned that is hurting the black community. Affirmative action programs meant for descendants of slaves are now benefits for everybody-but-whites ...


Stop reading after that enormous Untruth, meaning every word after than is as equally unreliable and lacks credibility.

The largest beneficiary does count, right?


Er..as in White Women? Or are women that diminished in your mind?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
MaverickM11
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:21 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:

Third:

This bs on prison reform is a crock of ——. Nothing is being done about the systematic and historic nature of the criminal justice system.



You do realize that you can prevent yourself from being thrown in jail by not breaking the law right?

The fact that you say that in a thread about a group of people thrown in jail for a crime they didn’t commit, is truly remarkable.

mham001 wrote:
I believe there is ample evidence that the unwavering support of democrats by large majorities of blacks is exactly what is holding them down.

Of course you would. It’s not the hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, and institutionalized racism. It’s not people like Trump keeping black people out of his buildings or evangelicals starting segregationist universities in the name of religious liberty. It’s not redlining or contract housing or white flight or the deliberate destruction of inner cities and the creation of ghettos. It’s not the demonization of poverty as “having too much” and “welfare queens” and the police and judicial infrastructure set up to exacerbate misery... No, it’d all be fixed if affirmative action would just go away. Give me a break.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
afcjets
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:44 pm

jdstJD wrote:
You’re absolutely right. I don’t speak for all black people. I am speaking for myself and expressing my views on the issues raised throughout this thread. However, since I happen to belong to the group I talking about and have for the entire 40 years I’ve been on this planet along with all of my family, friends and the millions of blacks people who have been saying these same things, I feel pretty comfortable saying I speak for many of them. I’m sure you feel that you speak for many people as well when you share your opinion on these issues.

I also acknowledge that my post that you responded to is not my typical less-passionate tone. I am finding myself getting pretty angry about this and taking the argument too personally which is not what I intend to do on this or any other online site. It really shouldn’t be that serious. Therefore, I don’t really want to participate in this thread any longer. I respect your opinion and thanks for the engaging discussion.


Yes, I do feel I speak for many people sometimes too and have no issue with you feeling you speak for many black people including yourself. One thing I have noticed which I believe is a key difference between a black Democrat (except some in power in Washington) and a white liberal is white liberals demand compliance and will ridicule and villify any black conservative with a vengeance so I thought you would agree with me on that point. I both respect your opinions too and enjoy the discussion. I think it is both ironic and telling that the TA compliments not this post of yours which I think is most representative of your thoughtful and informative posts but instead compliments the one you admit you sound like a word I would only use to describe him, even though clearly he was taking a shot at me and possibly his sole motivation for his compliment. My personal opinion is angry white liberals main motivation is guilt, and they feel attacking white conservatives absolves them of their own racist guilt and is nothing more than projection on steroids. I intended no disrespect to you by combining a response to him with this one, but he inserted himself into it and I think it's more efficient this way and did not feel it was worthy of it's own response. I will always listen to what you say with an open mind because I believe you are sincere, and you do not personally attack those who have a different opinion.
 
mham001
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:06 am

NYCVIE wrote:

I'm not entirely sure where you got "affirmative action programs meant for the descendants of slaves" from. While the discussion of programs or policies to help Black people began as early as the late 1800s, the actual "affirmative action" policies that were put into law state very clearly that they are meant for minority or traditionally underrepresented groups in which a variety of identities fall into. I always think that the anti-affirmative action discussion is interesting because if it weren't for such policies, companies/schools/etc. would never have had any incentives to hire or look at people from those underrepresented groups.

Something that also confuses me is the lack of any alternatives presented by Republicans who seek to roll these efforts back. In a country that literally was built with the intention of minorities not even being citizens, obviously there are massive and systemic disadvantages that minorities face today. These don't just disappear in time in the absence of policies or frameworks to promote the reduction of a racial achievement gap.

The last thing I'll say in this post is to echo what someone else said, which is that the lack of serious leadership of minorities in the Republican party is definitely a huge hurdle to any argument that Republicans care more or somehow know how to solve these issues. It's hard to claim you know how to better the Black community with little or virtually no Black people on your team. Trump claims "Black unemployment is low" as if that's his nod to Black people, but the fact that he also walks the line of literally fostering racism (re: Charlottesville) invalidates any claim that Black people or Black issues are something he understands or is in any way personally invested in. (And before anyone says anything about Trump's exact statement on "both sides," I didn't claim that he was a racist. I said that he says and does things that enable racism. To take his statements at Charlottesville as anything other than enabling racism would be disingenuous in my mind.


The entire impetus for affirmative action was indeed the plight of blacks. That is its history. The subsequent laws included everybody not-white male. And others are right, the primary beneficiary has been white women. Which makes my point, blacks have been squeezed out. Why children of Indian H1-b visas and any brown/black/yellow illegal are getting preference today with money and favor that could be reserved for those who have been directly affected by slavery. More money, less resentment from whites...This is pertinent to the conversation since the OP is in reference to black boys.

We have been over this before in this forum. My idea is one last attempt at education, provide any willing black a free college education - for one full generation. Education is key to success and must become a part of the culture. We have plenty of evidence that a large chunk of black culture considers education an Uncle Tom folly. White America cannot change that. Other immigrant groups are also proving that seriously wrong, and really put the whole idea of "racist white" America to shame, ie:Asians. It's all about culture.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 am

mham001 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

I'm not entirely sure where you got "affirmative action programs meant for the descendants of slaves" from. While the discussion of programs or policies to help Black people began as early as the late 1800s, the actual "affirmative action" policies that were put into law state very clearly that they are meant for minority or traditionally underrepresented groups in which a variety of identities fall into. I always think that the anti-affirmative action discussion is interesting because if it weren't for such policies, companies/schools/etc. would never have had any incentives to hire or look at people from those underrepresented groups.

Something that also confuses me is the lack of any alternatives presented by Republicans who seek to roll these efforts back. In a country that literally was built with the intention of minorities not even being citizens, obviously there are massive and systemic disadvantages that minorities face today. These don't just disappear in time in the absence of policies or frameworks to promote the reduction of a racial achievement gap.

The last thing I'll say in this post is to echo what someone else said, which is that the lack of serious leadership of minorities in the Republican party is definitely a huge hurdle to any argument that Republicans care more or somehow know how to solve these issues. It's hard to claim you know how to better the Black community with little or virtually no Black people on your team. Trump claims "Black unemployment is low" as if that's his nod to Black people, but the fact that he also walks the line of literally fostering racism (re: Charlottesville) invalidates any claim that Black people or Black issues are something he understands or is in any way personally invested in. (And before anyone says anything about Trump's exact statement on "both sides," I didn't claim that he was a racist. I said that he says and does things that enable racism. To take his statements at Charlottesville as anything other than enabling racism would be disingenuous in my mind.


The entire impetus for affirmative action was indeed the plight of blacks. That is its history. The subsequent laws included everybody not-white male. And others are right, the primary beneficiary has been white women. Which makes my point, blacks have been squeezed out. Why children of Indian H1-b visas and any brown/black/yellow illegal are getting preference today with money and favor that could be reserved for those who have been directly affected by slavery. More money, less resentment from whites...This is pertinent to the conversation since the OP is in reference to black boys.

We have been over this before in this forum. My idea is one last attempt at education, provide any willing black a free college education - for one full generation. Education is key to success and must become a part of the culture. We have plenty of evidence that a large chunk of black culture considers education an Uncle Tom folly. White America cannot change that. Other immigrant groups are also proving that seriously wrong, and really put the whole idea of "racist white" America to shame, ie:Asians. It's all about culture.


Thanks for a civilized reply that is often missing from these discussions. I will push back on your claim that affirmative action began solely for Black people. Obviously you're correct in saying that historically, the concept for affirmative action was brought up around Black plight but the actual legislation never explicitly mentioned Black or African American people and always said "minorities" or "sex".

While the education proposal is interesting, I'm not sure you can chalk the issues up to culture and the idea of education not being important in the Black community. There's so many nuances that cause this. You would probably find that college enrollment rates are low across the board in low and very low income communities, particularly in urban areas. If you have terrible public schools then yes, the idea of college isn't very attainable to most of the population.

You also should note that Blacks, and I mean African Americans are not "immigrant groups" that you can compare to Asians, a substantial percentage of which have not been in this country for as long as African Americans. If you actually look into it, Africans, those coming directly from Africa and their children, are amongst/if not the highest educated group in the country. You'll find high education rates in a lot of immigrant groups, but you can't compare that to a group that's been systematically oppressed in this country for the entirety of its existence. If it was literally not legal for your parents' parents to even attend college it begins to be clear how difficult it is to say "just go to college."

There's never been a real "attempt at education" for there to be a "last" one because affirmative action doesn't qualify as an attempt. I think there's this myth that people believe that colleges are going to the hood and just picking up minorities to fill quotas but the reality is that the majority of these minorities never even get the base education that would put them within reach of "affirmative action." A substantial amount of minorities at these schools are students who were lucky to have opportunities for much better primary educations than the majority of their counterparts. For example, at my Ivy League school, probably over half of the Black students (myself included) had the opportunity to go to private school which immensely helps. I bring that up to say this is the exception and not the norm. There really needs to be an overhaul of public schools in urban areas to start and that's why I think it's important to have people who actually have experienced and lived this at the table with a voice in these policies.

Sorry for making this so long, but hope you see my point.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:15 am

NYCVIE wrote:
mham001 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

I'm not entirely sure where you got "affirmative action programs meant for the descendants of slaves" from. While the discussion of programs or policies to help Black people began as early as the late 1800s, the actual "affirmative action" policies that were put into law state very clearly that they are meant for minority or traditionally underrepresented groups in which a variety of identities fall into. I always think that the anti-affirmative action discussion is interesting because if it weren't for such policies, companies/schools/etc. would never have had any incentives to hire or look at people from those underrepresented groups.

Something that also confuses me is the lack of any alternatives presented by Republicans who seek to roll these efforts back. In a country that literally was built with the intention of minorities not even being citizens, obviously there are massive and systemic disadvantages that minorities face today. These don't just disappear in time in the absence of policies or frameworks to promote the reduction of a racial achievement gap.

The last thing I'll say in this post is to echo what someone else said, which is that the lack of serious leadership of minorities in the Republican party is definitely a huge hurdle to any argument that Republicans care more or somehow know how to solve these issues. It's hard to claim you know how to better the Black community with little or virtually no Black people on your team. Trump claims "Black unemployment is low" as if that's his nod to Black people, but the fact that he also walks the line of literally fostering racism (re: Charlottesville) invalidates any claim that Black people or Black issues are something he understands or is in any way personally invested in. (And before anyone says anything about Trump's exact statement on "both sides," I didn't claim that he was a racist. I said that he says and does things that enable racism. To take his statements at Charlottesville as anything other than enabling racism would be disingenuous in my mind.


The entire impetus for affirmative action was indeed the plight of blacks. That is its history. The subsequent laws included everybody not-white male. And others are right, the primary beneficiary has been white women. Which makes my point, blacks have been squeezed out. Why children of Indian H1-b visas and any brown/black/yellow illegal are getting preference today with money and favor that could be reserved for those who have been directly affected by slavery. More money, less resentment from whites...This is pertinent to the conversation since the OP is in reference to black boys.

We have been over this before in this forum. My idea is one last attempt at education, provide any willing black a free college education - for one full generation. Education is key to success and must become a part of the culture. We have plenty of evidence that a large chunk of black culture considers education an Uncle Tom folly. White America cannot change that. Other immigrant groups are also proving that seriously wrong, and really put the whole idea of "racist white" America to shame, ie:Asians. It's all about culture.


Thanks for a civilized reply that is often missing from these discussions. I will push back on your claim that affirmative action began solely for Black people. Obviously you're correct in saying that historically, the concept for affirmative action was brought up around Black plight but the actual legislation never explicitly mentioned Black or African American people and always said "minorities" or "sex".

While the education proposal is interesting, I'm not sure you can chalk the issues up to culture and the idea of education not being important in the Black community. There's so many nuances that cause this. You would probably find that college enrollment rates are low across the board in low and very low income communities, particularly in urban areas. If you have terrible public schools then yes, the idea of college isn't very attainable to most of the population.

You also should note that Blacks, and I mean African Americans are not "immigrant groups" that you can compare to Asians, a substantial percentage of which have not been in this country for as long as African Americans. If you actually look into it, Africans, those coming directly from Africa and their children, are amongst/if not the highest educated group in the country. You'll find high education rates in a lot of immigrant groups, but you can't compare that to a group that's been systematically oppressed in this country for the entirety of its existence. If it was literally not legal for your parents' parents to even attend college it begins to be clear how difficult it is to say "just go to college."

There's never been a real "attempt at education" for there to be a "last" one because affirmative action doesn't qualify as an attempt. I think there's this myth that people believe that colleges are going to the hood and just picking up minorities to fill quotas but the reality is that the majority of these minorities never even get the base education that would put them within reach of "affirmative action." A substantial amount of minorities at these schools are students who were lucky to have opportunities for much better primary educations than the majority of their counterparts. For example, at my Ivy League school, probably over half of the Black students (myself included) had the opportunity to go to private school which immensely helps. I bring that up to say this is the exception and not the norm. There really needs to be an overhaul of public schools in urban areas to start and that's why I think it's important to have people who actually have experienced and lived this at the table with a voice in these policies.

Sorry for making this so long, but hope you see my point.


Very well thought out points ...and the most noticeable salient and underlying theme in the series (played well by to excellent very articulate intelligent actoes, John Leguizamo (everyone knows his face) and Michael Kenneth Williams (Omar, gay drug dealer of the critically acclaimed series 'The Wire') both as uneducated parents doing their best (based on sheer panic) to get their kids home from brutal cops. No one viewing the series can miss enormous problems associated with lack of understanding of so many things that left them as easy targets to criminal exploitation by a justice system driven in any which direction the leaders take it.

I can add to your posts, but I doubt if any of what you said will mean much to mham001, he's pretty much set in his attitude in this particular area.

BN747
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:27 am

Nah, it's not racism, it's sexism towards men. When women get rejected or lack attention, they "lash out" and try to ruin the life of the individual or individuals they feel "wronged them". While all men are victims here, black men are more likely to be a victim, as seen from this documentary and numerous other cases. Can be any crime, from crying rape to crying assault to crying robbery to anything else. The justice system in the US has always favored women (and white individuals in most cases as well), so that is why women get off easy while the men are most of the time (especially the case for black & hispanic men) found guilty and sentenced to harsh time.

That is why every time a woman tries to pull the "me too" or "I was blah blah blah" card, they should be investigated and questioned fully so innocent men such as the Central Park Five, Emmett Till, and countless others aren't locked up for life or killed for absolutely no reason because a female is "upset".
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:24 pm

afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
You’re absolutely right. I don’t speak for all black people. I am speaking for myself and expressing my views on the issues raised throughout this thread. However, since I happen to belong to the group I talking about and have for the entire 40 years I’ve been on this planet along with all of my family, friends and the millions of blacks people who have been saying these same things, I feel pretty comfortable saying I speak for many of them. I’m sure you feel that you speak for many people as well when you share your opinion on these issues.

I also acknowledge that my post that you responded to is not my typical less-passionate tone. I am finding myself getting pretty angry about this and taking the argument too personally which is not what I intend to do on this or any other online site. It really shouldn’t be that serious. Therefore, I don’t really want to participate in this thread any longer. I respect your opinion and thanks for the engaging discussion.


Yes, I do feel I speak for many people sometimes too and have no issue with you feeling you speak for many black people including yourself. One thing I have noticed which I believe is a key difference between a black Democrat (except some in power in Washington) and a white liberal is white liberals demand compliance and will ridicule and villify any black conservative with a vengeance so I thought you would agree with me on that point. I both respect your opinions too and enjoy the discussion. I think it is both ironic and telling that the TA compliments not this post of yours which I think is most representative of your thoughtful and informative posts but instead compliments the one you admit you sound like a word I would only use to describe him, even though clearly he was taking a shot at me and possibly his sole motivation for his compliment. My personal opinion is angry white liberals main motivation is guilt, and they feel attacking white conservatives absolves them of their own racist guilt and is nothing more than projection on steroids. I intended no disrespect to you by combining a response to him with this one, but he inserted himself into it and I think it's more efficient this way and did not feel it was worthy of it's own response. I will always listen to what you say with an open mind because I believe you are sincere, and you do not personally attack those who have a different opinion.


AFC, I think you have the whole "guilt" thing wrong about "liberals". It is more about pointing out these groups are still being oppressed. Right wingers still insist minorities need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps or, as in the case of Mitch McConnell, don't need help anymore because Obama. "Liberals" are trying to point out that we need to stop judging people by the color of their skin and that some are begging for help and want out. They want more than catch phrases. It is not guilt. It is fact.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:01 pm

A serial rapist confessed to this crime, his DNA alone was found, and these 5 young men were exonerated and won lawsuits against the City of New York.

And Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty. And says it. Out loud. And MAGA people believe it and defend him.

If that doesn't disturb you, and tell you all you need to know about DT at the same time, there's no getting through to you.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:07 pm

afcjets wrote:
. I haven't watched the documentary which is no doubt a hit job attempt at Trump 2020.


Translation: "I'm the victim"
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afcjets
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:27 pm

zkojq wrote:
afcjets wrote:
. I haven't watched the documentary which is no doubt a hit job attempt at Trump 2020.


Translation: "I'm the victim"


Please explain.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:55 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
[
The fact that you say that in a thread about a group of people thrown in jail for a crime they didn’t commit, is truly remarkable.



Did you read the quote I was replying to? Obviously :sarcastic: you didn't.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:06 am

NIKV69 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
[
The fact that you say that in a thread about a group of people thrown in jail for a crime they didn’t commit, is truly remarkable.



Did you read the quote I was replying to? Obviously :sarcastic: you didn't.

It's right there above your response. Kinda how this quoting thing worx. Did those nice Duke boys do nothing wrong?

EasternSon wrote:
A serial rapist confessed to this crime, his DNA alone was found, and these 5 young men were exonerated and won lawsuits against the City of New York.

And Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty. And says it. Out loud. And MAGA people believe it and defend him.

If that doesn't disturb you, and tell you all you need to know about DT at the same time, there's no getting through to you.

I think that's really it. There's just a fundamental opposition to understanding anything that requires even the most remote bit of context. Bill O'reilly summed it up perfectly with this gem, "Slavery reparations is a far-left favorite because it does a number of things. It reinforces the radical belief that the United States was founded by racist white men who installed a system whereby white guys would run everything and blacks, women and others would be exploited."

That is quite literally, what the installed "system" was and largely still is. You cannot make this sh!t up.
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seb146
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:00 am

zkojq wrote:
afcjets wrote:
. I haven't watched the documentary which is no doubt a hit job attempt at Trump 2020.


Translation: "I'm the victim"


EasternSon wrote:

A serial rapist confessed to this crime, his DNA alone was found, and these 5 young men were exonerated and won lawsuits against the City of New York.

And Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty. And says it. Out loud. And MAGA people believe it and defend him.


This case was tried and, later, it was found the Central Park Five were found not to have committed the crime. Yet the occupant of the White House and his base insist they are guilty. Even though it was proven they are innocent. And you, AFC, say it is a "hit job" against him.

He does not need any help losing in 2020. He is doing a fine job all by himself....
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stratosphere
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
afcjets wrote:
. I haven't watched the documentary which is no doubt a hit job attempt at Trump 2020.


Translation: "I'm the victim"


EasternSon wrote:

A serial rapist confessed to this crime, his DNA alone was found, and these 5 young men were exonerated and won lawsuits against the City of New York.

And Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty. And says it. Out loud. And MAGA people believe it and defend him.


This case was tried and, later, it was found the Central Park Five were found not to have committed the crime. Yet the occupant of the White House and his base insist they are guilty. Even though it was proven they are innocent. And you, AFC, say it is a "hit job" against him.

He does not need any help losing in 2020. He is doing a fine job all by himself....


While I agree that was an injustice of epic proportions on convicting the 5 of the rape of that woman what is lost in this argument is the fact that those 5 were part of a larger group of teens who were going through the park assaulting and robbing various people that is a fact. A metal bar was taken from one of the 5's houses and carried by another to beat some joggers one so badly he spent 2 days in the hospital. So these 5 are not as innocent as the fresh driven snow either.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:39 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
mham001 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

I'm not entirely sure where you got "affirmative action programs meant for the descendants of slaves" from. While the discussion of programs or policies to help Black people began as early as the late 1800s, the actual "affirmative action" policies that were put into law state very clearly that they are meant for minority or traditionally underrepresented groups in which a variety of identities fall into. I always think that the anti-affirmative action discussion is interesting because if it weren't for such policies, companies/schools/etc. would never have had any incentives to hire or look at people from those underrepresented groups.

Something that also confuses me is the lack of any alternatives presented by Republicans who seek to roll these efforts back. In a country that literally was built with the intention of minorities not even being citizens, obviously there are massive and systemic disadvantages that minorities face today. These don't just disappear in time in the absence of policies or frameworks to promote the reduction of a racial achievement gap.

The last thing I'll say in this post is to echo what someone else said, which is that the lack of serious leadership of minorities in the Republican party is definitely a huge hurdle to any argument that Republicans care more or somehow know how to solve these issues. It's hard to claim you know how to better the Black community with little or virtually no Black people on your team. Trump claims "Black unemployment is low" as if that's his nod to Black people, but the fact that he also walks the line of literally fostering racism (re: Charlottesville) invalidates any claim that Black people or Black issues are something he understands or is in any way personally invested in. (And before anyone says anything about Trump's exact statement on "both sides," I didn't claim that he was a racist. I said that he says and does things that enable racism. To take his statements at Charlottesville as anything other than enabling racism would be disingenuous in my mind.


The entire impetus for affirmative action was indeed the plight of blacks. That is its history. The subsequent laws included everybody not-white male. And others are right, the primary beneficiary has been white women. Which makes my point, blacks have been squeezed out. Why children of Indian H1-b visas and any brown/black/yellow illegal are getting preference today with money and favor that could be reserved for those who have been directly affected by slavery. More money, less resentment from whites...This is pertinent to the conversation since the OP is in reference to black boys.

We have been over this before in this forum. My idea is one last attempt at education, provide any willing black a free college education - for one full generation. Education is key to success and must become a part of the culture. We have plenty of evidence that a large chunk of black culture considers education an Uncle Tom folly. White America cannot change that. Other immigrant groups are also proving that seriously wrong, and really put the whole idea of "racist white" America to shame, ie:Asians. It's all about culture.


Thanks for a civilized reply that is often missing from these discussions. I will push back on your claim that affirmative action began solely for Black people. Obviously you're correct in saying that historically, the concept for affirmative action was brought up around Black plight but the actual legislation never explicitly mentioned Black or African American people and always said "minorities" or "sex".

While the education proposal is interesting, I'm not sure you can chalk the issues up to culture and the idea of education not being important in the Black community. There's so many nuances that cause this. You would probably find that college enrollment rates are low across the board in low and very low income communities, particularly in urban areas. If you have terrible public schools then yes, the idea of college isn't very attainable to most of the population.

You also should note that Blacks, and I mean African Americans are not "immigrant groups" that you can compare to Asians, a substantial percentage of which have not been in this country for as long as African Americans. If you actually look into it, Africans, those coming directly from Africa and their children, are amongst/if not the highest educated group in the country. You'll find high education rates in a lot of immigrant groups, but you can't compare that to a group that's been systematically oppressed in this country for the entirety of its existence. If it was literally not legal for your parents' parents to even attend college it begins to be clear how difficult it is to say "just go to college."

There's never been a real "attempt at education" for there to be a "last" one because affirmative action doesn't qualify as an attempt. I think there's this myth that people believe that colleges are going to the hood and just picking up minorities to fill quotas but the reality is that the majority of these minorities never even get the base education that would put them within reach of "affirmative action." A substantial amount of minorities at these schools are students who were lucky to have opportunities for much better primary educations than the majority of their counterparts. For example, at my Ivy League school, probably over half of the Black students (myself included) had the opportunity to go to private school which immensely helps. I bring that up to say this is the exception and not the norm. There really needs to be an overhaul of public schools in urban areas to start and that's why I think it's important to have people who actually have experienced and lived this at the table with a voice in these policies.

Sorry for making this so long, but hope you see my point.


I tend to disagree, there is more to it than money. I have spent most of my life living in areas as a minority white. I grew up and schooled in SE Seattle and have lived in California Hispanic and Asian majority neighborhoods for, well a long time. My daughters have attended public schools in both, 5 miles apart and the cultural differences in regards to education are stark and immediate. One school (a Baccalaureate scam) rates 2-3 and the other 8-10. Both have large proportions registered as low income. In the Asian dominant district (~60% Asian, 25% Hispanic, 5% white, 5% black), Hispanic and black kids without fail will score significantly lower in every regard, with whites just below Asians. The money and resource excuse just doesn't work there, they all have the same resources to draw from and because of the consistently lower scores, will often get more attention as a group. In my personal experience, parental attitudes toward education are unequivocally different. White America cannot change this.

I don't doubt that black African immigrants do better, that actually proves my point, why does a black African do better in racist white America than a black born in the US, realistically, how many of their parents parents had expectations of college-or-else pounded into their heads from an early age? Like US blacks, probably few, Conversely, how many of them have had generations of welfare experience to draw from? Few to none. Those are part of the Democratic victimhood policies that I believe continue the "oppression" of US blacks. Combine that with the open border fantasies in the liberal regions and who are the first to suffer? Blacks. Seriously, read the LA Times report on the UCLA study of black employment in Los Angeles County.

I know your experience with private school students is true, those students have parents who care and make sure their kids are performing. They are made to finish their homework and are expected to score on the tests. This is the culture needed to succeed. In my area, along the same line, there are charter schools for the less affluent but educationally-focused - aimed at the exact demographic we are speaking of. Who is continually trying to shut them down? Democrats, beholden to the teacher's union, just another example of that Democratic oppression. I genuinely believe blacks as a whole have been and continue to be dealt a bad hand but I take exception to this routine refrain that today, it is all at the hands of eevil white Republican types.

And while I am on the educational rant, if we are talking about institutional oppression in the education system, it is boys, of all stripes who are getting the shaft, but that is another story. Something nobody talks about.
 
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seb146
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:59 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
zkojq wrote:

Translation: "I'm the victim"


EasternSon wrote:

A serial rapist confessed to this crime, his DNA alone was found, and these 5 young men were exonerated and won lawsuits against the City of New York.

And Donald Trump still thinks they're guilty. And says it. Out loud. And MAGA people believe it and defend him.


This case was tried and, later, it was found the Central Park Five were found not to have committed the crime. Yet the occupant of the White House and his base insist they are guilty. Even though it was proven they are innocent. And you, AFC, say it is a "hit job" against him.

He does not need any help losing in 2020. He is doing a fine job all by himself....


While I agree that was an injustice of epic proportions on convicting the 5 of the rape of that woman what is lost in this argument is the fact that those 5 were part of a larger group of teens who were going through the park assaulting and robbing various people that is a fact. A metal bar was taken from one of the 5's houses and carried by another to beat some joggers one so badly he spent 2 days in the hospital. So these 5 are not as innocent as the fresh driven snow either.


They did not commit the rape that dear leader claims they did. He refuses to apologize for his mistake, as usual. He is right, everyone else is wrong. I think those are much more important points.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:02 am

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This case was tried and, later, it was found the Central Park Five were found not to have committed the crime. Yet the occupant of the White House and his base insist they are guilty. Even though it was proven they are innocent. And you, AFC, say it is a "hit job" against him.

He does not need any help losing in 2020. He is doing a fine job all by himself....

While I agree that was an injustice of epic proportions on convicting the 5 of the rape of that woman what is lost in this argument is the fact that those 5 were part of a larger group of teens who were going through the park assaulting and robbing various people that is a fact. A metal bar was taken from one of the 5's houses and carried by another to beat some joggers one so badly he spent 2 days in the hospital. So these 5 are not as innocent as the fresh driven snow either.


They did not commit the rape that dear leader claims they did. He refuses to apologize for his mistake, as usual. He is right, everyone else is wrong. I think those are much more important points.


It is a hit job on Trump because of the timing. This story could have been told in 2002. It wasn't told before the 2016 election because everyone knew Hillary would win. These guys likely did commit the rape because of the evidence and the facts of the case and Trump is probably right. I still want to watch the documentary though, it could change my mind but the evidence is they likely did it (at least some of them)

There is no justice in this country sometimes. I am sure thousands if not millions of innocent black men have been wrongly convicted in the past because of racism. As with everything with the left, social justice is all that matters, individual facts don't. I actually have no problem with them getting off (no pun intended) even if they did it, reparations for injustice on the innocent black men wrongly convicted in the past if you will. I am also happy they got millions of dollars. (Yes, I am sure I would likely feel different if I actually knew the victim) But I am not going to pretend I think at least some of these guys didn't participate in the rape. I would still return a verdict of not guilty because it's not the job of a juror to make a guess, and IMO there is almost always reasonable doubt, and no matter how small my verdict will always be not guilty if that is the case. Let's look at the actual facts. I will include links with more but the main ones are below:

"Santana was one of the first boys picked up in the park the night of the attacks, April 19, 1989. While being driven to the precinct house, he blurted out: “I had nothing to do with the rape. All I did was feel the woman’s tits.”

At this point, the jogger hadn’t been found. The police knew nothing about any rape.

Richardson rode to the precinct with another boy, who announced to the police that he knew who did “the murder,” naming Antron McCray. Richardson concurred, saying, “Yeah. That’s who did it.”

Again, the police didn't know about the jogger yet. (It’s not surprising that the boys thought she was dead: Her doctors didn’t expect her to live through the night.)

In a six-week pre-trial hearing, the boys’ confessions were subjected to relentless assault by defense attorneys. The confessions were attacked again during both trials and on appeal. The trial judge, the two multi-ethnic juries and the appellate court judges found the confessions voluntary -- and damning.

Salaam confessed to the rape after the detective questioning him said that fingerprints had been found on the jogger’s clothing, and if the prints were his, he was “going down for the rape.” Salaam confessed immediately. Why would he do that -- unless he was worried the prints might be his?

Taken to the scene of the crime by a detective and a prosecutor the following morning, Wise said, "Damn, damn, that's a lot of blood. ... I knew she was bleeding, but I didn't know how bad she was. It was really dark. I couldn't see how much blood there was at night.” (She’d lost three-quarters of her blood.)

The police also had incriminating testimony from friends and acquaintances of the defendants.

-- Dennis Commedo, one of the boys who was part of the larger group, told the police that, when he ran into Richardson in the park that night, he’d said, “We just raped somebody.”

-- Wise told a friend's sister, Melody Jackson, that he didn't rape the jogger; he "only held her legs down while Kevin (Richardson) f---ed her." Jackson volunteered this information to the police, thinking it would help Wise.

-- Two of Wise's friends said that, the next day, he told them, "You heard about that woman that was beat up and raped in the park last night. That was us!"

-- Another boy arrested for the attacks, but not the rape, told the detectives on videotape that he overheard Santana and a friend laughing in the park about how they’d “made a woman bleed.”

The defendants also knew facts about the attack that only someone who had been there could possibly know. Two of the boys, Santana and Richardson, independently pointed out the exact location where the rape had occurred.

Wise told the detective interviewing him that someone he thought was named “Rudy” had stolen the jogger’s Walkman. The officer’s notes state: “persons present when girl raped. ... Rudy –- played with tits/took walkman.”

At that point, the jogger was still in a coma. Police investigators had no way of knowing that she’d been carrying a Walkman. Thirteen years later, the sixth rapist, Matias Reyes -- the only rapist, according to Hollywood and former District Attorney Robert Morgenthau -- told police that in addition to raping the jogger, he’d stolen her Walkman."

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2019-06-19.html

"In 2002, the convictions of the five Central Park rapists were vacated on the word of a psychopath, Matias Reyes, who suddenly announced that he, too, raped the jogger -- not a surprise -- and also that he’d acted alone -- not possible...

Robert Morgenthau, Manhattan D.A....The only facts he cared about were: 1) an election was coming; and 2) so was his impending death. Overturning those convictions would assure him both re-election and an adulatory New York Times obituary.

The media demanded a rewrite, and Morgenthau was just the man to do it.

Reyes’ “confession” changed nothing about the evidence presented at trial. It was always known that other rapists got away: A small sample of semen on the jogger’s sock and cervix did not match any of the defendants'. That’s why, in her summation, prosecutor Elizabeth Lederer told the jury: "Others who were not caught raped her and got away."

Now we know: Reyes was one of those who “got away.”

Unlike the confessions of the boys convicted of the attack, Reyes's confession would result in no punishment. To the contrary, he was rewarded with a highly desirable prison transfer. Coincidentally, his conscience struck only after he was imprisoned with one of the convicted Central Park rapists, Kharey Wise, who happened to be the leader of a prison gang.

To be extra sure that the psychopath was telling the truth:

-- Reyes was never given a polygraph test.

-- The police were prohibited from interviewing him.

-- In fact, the police were prevented from even reviewing transcripts of the D.A.’s interviews with Reyes.

-- The police were further barred from interviewing Reyes’ prison acquaintances -- who said he’d admitted to joining a rape already in progress after hearing the jogger’s screams.

The maniacally repeated claim that “there was no physical evidence to tie the boys to the crime” is utter nonsense intended to fool the stupid.

What “physical evidence” were they expecting? There were no tire tracks, footprints, bullet casings or gun powder residue to be tested. The jogger’s pulverized body was found lying in a puddle of mud. The only conceivable “physical evidence” would be DNA.

But the use of DNA to solve crimes was nearly unheard of in 1989. No police force in the country would look for DNA to make a case. It was only about a year earlier that DNA had been used for the first time in any criminal court in the U.S. (Florida).

The very month that the jogger was attacked, newspapers were excitedly reporting on a novel forensic technique, a “still unfolding laboratory discovery, a genetic ‘fingerprint’ created from the body's deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA” -- as the Chicago Tribune put it.

Even five years later, DNA evidence wasn’t enough to convict O.J. Simpson..

Hard to believe, but it was possible for crimes to be solved before 2001! (That's about when the use of DNA in criminal cases became widespread.)

What the police had against the Central Park Five were detailed confessions, on videotape, given in the presence of their parents or adult relatives; the deeply incriminating statements of at least a half-dozen of their friends and acquaintances; and the defendants’ knowledge of facts about the crime that only the perpetrators would know."

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2019-06-12.html

Go ahead and attack Ann Coulter, because we know you probably can't attack the evidence.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:17 am, edited 6 times in total.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:09 am

afcjets wrote:
These guys likely did commit the rape because of the evidence .

And your "evidence" is an Ann Coulter column which itself has no source?

Are you kidding?

Here's the rapist:
In 2001, convicted serial rapist and murderer Matias Reyes was serving a life sentence in New York state. He had never been identified as a suspect in the Central Park attack on Meili, although he had been at large at the time. Reyes was later believed to have raped another woman in the same area of the park during the day on April 17, two days before his attack there on Meili. During that summer, he raped four more women, killing one; and was interrupted after robbing a fifth.[5]

In 2001 Reyes met Wise when he was held at the Auburn Correctional Facility in upstate New York.[67] In 2002, Reyes told officials that on the night of April 19, 1989, he had assaulted and raped the jogger. He was 17 years old at the time and said that he had acted alone.[68][69] Reyes was then working at an East Harlem convenience store on Third Avenue and 102nd Street, and living in a van on the street.[69][70]

District Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau appointed a team led by ADAs Nancy Ryan and Peter Casolaro to investigate the case, based on Reyes' confession and a review of evidence.[35] Reyes provided officials with a detailed account of the attack, details of which were corroborated by other evidence which the police held.[5] In addition, his DNA matched the DNA evidence at the scene, confirming that he was the sole source of the semen found in and on the victim "to a factor of one in 6,000,000,000 people".[5] In announcing these facts, the DA also said that the perpetrator had tied up Meili with her T-shirt in a distinctive fashion that Reyes used again on later victims in crimes for which he was convicted.[5]

Based on interviews and other evidence, the team believed that Reyes had acted alone: The rape appeared to have taken place in the North Woods area after the main body of the thirty teenagers had moved well to the south, and the timeline reconstruction of events made it unlikely that he was joined by any of the defendants. In addition, Reyes was not known to have been associated with any of the six indicted defendants, and lived at 102nd Street in what locals considered another neighborhood. None of the six defendants in the rape mentioned him by name in association with the rape.[5]

Reyes was not prosecuted for the rape of Meili because the statute of limitations had passed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

And Wikipedia has the citations for that information.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:24 am

Nothing Wikipedia says contradicts the evidence from the actual trial which she outlines.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:10 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Nah, it's not racism, it's sexism towards men. When women get rejected or lack attention, they "lash out" and try to ruin the life of the individual or individuals they feel "wronged them". While all men are victims here, black men are more likely to be a victim, as seen from this documentary and numerous other cases. Can be any crime, from crying rape to crying assault to crying robbery to anything else. The justice system in the US has always favored women (and white individuals in most cases as well), so that is why women get off easy while the men are most of the time (especially the case for black & hispanic men) found guilty and sentenced to harsh time.

That is why every time a woman tries to pull the "me too" or "I was blah blah blah" card, they should be investigated and questioned fully so innocent men such as the Central Park Five, Emmett Till, and countless others aren't locked up for life or killed for absolutely no reason because a female is "upset".


Since nobody has called this out yet - you need to get laid. Seriously.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:14 am

afcjets wrote:
Nothing Wikipedia says contradicts the evidence from the actual trial which she outlines.


Even now, there is much more precise DNA testing being done and clearing people of crimes from years ago.

But, black children don't count?

I have never said they were completely innocent of everything. They clearly did not rape this woman which is what the case is about. They did not do it.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:56 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Nothing Wikipedia says contradicts the evidence from the actual trial which she outlines.


Even now, there is much more precise DNA testing being done and clearing people of crimes from years ago.

But, black children don't count?

I have never said they were completely innocent of everything. They clearly did not rape this woman which is what the case is about. They did not do it.


If this case is going to become a campaign issue, it's going to be hard for the left to reconcile no semen, no rape with the me too movement.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:11 am

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Nothing Wikipedia says contradicts the evidence from the actual trial which she outlines.


Even now, there is much more precise DNA testing being done and clearing people of crimes from years ago.

But, black children don't count?

I have never said they were completely innocent of everything. They clearly did not rape this woman which is what the case is about. They did not do it.


If this case is going to become a campaign issue, it's going to be hard for the left to reconcile no semen, no rape with the me too movement.


What are you talking about? The actual rapist came forward. Total exoneration.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:35 am

mham001 wrote:
I don't doubt that black African immigrants do better, that actually proves my point, why does a black African do better in racist white America than a black born in the US, realistically, how many of their parents parents had expectations of college-or-else pounded into their heads from an early age? Like US blacks, probably few, Conversely, how many of them have had generations of welfare experience to draw from? Few to none. Those are part of the Democratic victimhood policies that I believe continue the "oppression" of US blacks. Combine that with the open border fantasies in the liberal regions and who are the first to suffer? Blacks. Seriously, read the LA Times report on the UCLA study of black employment in Los Angeles County.


That you don't know the answer to that 1st question (or how clueless you are trying to sell yourself and others on the weak, anemic 'victimhood' rigntwing nonsense.
It also show how you've given Zero thought (intelligent observational thought) to the question you pose says it all.

First off, someone was a victim in the US slavery chapter...hint: It wasn't the fat ass sedentary plantation owner complaining how "his nigras weren't workin' hard enough.." while sipping lemonade from his porch.

Or as many who think as you do, he was the victim who didn't get a fair shake.

To use 'victimhood' properly, at least know what it means and what one is.

Colonel Sanders was not a victim.

African Immigrants vs Black Americans...

Well one arrived here after all the worse was over.
One had to endure the indignities of just being 'black' for 150+ years after slavery. Guess which one.

The other comes later in the game and adopts the same mentality as 'new Korean, Iraqi, Somali, Australian immigrants since...their take, 'it's American ...blend in as best you can, follow their rules, don't rock the boat, put up with whatever crap 'a boss' gives you and just do your job, learn and prosper'.

The Black American, tried all of that in the 1880s, 1890s, 1900s and every decade after...and guess what they were met with?
The most vicious discrimination in every level of life plus rape, murder, lynching, blocked from the workforce, blocked from politics, refuse banking services and more.
After decades of that, one generation hands the next and the next and onwards of teaching your children 'you are nothing, society does not value you - except for cheap labor.
A solid unifying mentality forms from decades of that kind of disenfranchisement.

It becomes one of distrust of the system and the people (whites) on every level.

Your brain tells you that immigrant Africans can step into the American mess and soar because they see things as you do...and not those 'victimhood blacks'.
The shame is ..those African immigrants know this part of history better than you, they make like to look at it as a history that doesn't affect them (and they proudly tell you they are Not American blacks - they are from Ghana or whereever), although they may find comfort in not 'being identified as an American black, white America sees them the same way as they see American blacks - that is if they
have 'the color problem'...like cops, the bad cops (who out number the good cops).
The documentary in discussion displays this mentality brilliantly excellent actors who knew how to portray 'victims' in a society that rules them but in no way supports them.

There are more areas I can go into on this, your post history tells me it's an uphill issue with you on this and you're going to happier with your spin on things vs facts.

There is 'history' explaining the Black American experience, I invite you to look into it in order to avoid appearing as a 'fool' discussing things you've read, heard that helped you form those 'why can Black Americans....." questions you have.

Learn the history
Understand the people, the 'other Americans'.


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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:38 am

seb146 wrote:
What are you talking about? The actual rapist came forward. Total exoneration.


I am assuming you know what a gang rape is, especially considering that is was alleged and why it was called the Central Park 5. More importantly, I know post 78 was long, but did you read the first seven paragraphs (they are only one or two sentences each) and five bullet points below them in the second part (halfway down beginning after the first link)?
Last edited by afcjets on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:39 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Even now, there is much more precise DNA testing being done and clearing people of crimes from years ago.

But, black children don't count?

I have never said they were completely innocent of everything. They clearly did not rape this woman which is what the case is about. They did not do it.


If this case is going to become a campaign issue, it's going to be hard for the left to reconcile no semen, no rape with the me too movement.


What are you talking about? The actual rapist came forward. Total exoneration.


AFC should just stop running off with mouth and watch the series, he's sounding more ignorant with each posts with his 'hit job' glasses on.

I like his 'it's timing'..the timing isn't right...

Dude, there NEVER is a good time when something makes you uncomfortable....because while you are feeling 'it's not a good time to hash this out', for some on the other side 'NOW' is the perfect time.

Your Central Park 5 could have been the Central Park 7 or Central Part 11..in the film they said it was a group of 30 or more.
But truth be told, it's Central Park, black kids everywhere...how are you going to gather up a group and say 'this is the group'...and it was far from it.

That was a modern day lynching.


BN747
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:46 am

BN747 wrote:

AFC should just stop running off with mouth and watch the series, he's sounding more ignorant with each posts with his 'hit job' glasses on.

I like his 'it's timing'..the timing isn't right...

Dude, there NEVER is a good time when something makes you uncomfortable....because while you are feeling 'it's not a good time to hash this out', for some on the other side 'NOW' is the perfect time.

BN747



I just noticed you said it was co-produced by Robert DiNiro in the opening post, the only thing we have heard out of him in the past five years is how he wants to punch Trump in the face and the like. If you don't think part of his motivation for producing this film is to help defeat Trump in 2020, I don't think you are being honest with yourself.
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:03 am

BN747 wrote:
Your Central Park 5 could have been the Central Park 7 or Central Part 11..in the film they said it was a group of 30 or more.
But truth be told, it's Central Park, black kids everywhere...how are you going to gather up a group and say 'this is the group'...and it was far from it.

That was a modern day lynching.


BN747


Who said it was 30 or more, the police or the producers of the documentary or both? If you believe it was 30, you don't think any of these five who were there, confessed, knew facts even the police didn't, and bragged about it to their friends possibly were one or some of the other 29? And you also think DNA evidence during it's infancy where only one person's DNA was recovered when there were over 30 men raping her totally exonerates these guys?
 
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:23 am

afcjets wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Your Central Park 5 could have been the Central Park 7 or Central Part 11..in the film they said it was a group of 30 or more.
But truth be told, it's Central Park, black kids everywhere...how are you going to gather up a group and say 'this is the group'...and it was far from it.

That was a modern day lynching.


BN747


Who said it was 30 or more, the police or the producers of the documentary or both? If you believe it was 30, you don't think any of these five who were there, confessed, knew facts even the police didn't, and bragged about it to their friends possibly were one or some of the other 29? And you also think DNA evidence during it's infancy where only one person's DNA was recovered when there were over 30 men raping her totally exonerates these guys?


You do not believe the Central Park 5 based on DNA evidence and a confession from the actual rapist and you do not believe Christine Ford or Jean Carroll? Is there any victim you do believe?
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:28 am

afcjets wrote:
BN747 wrote:

AFC should just stop running off with mouth and watch the series, he's sounding more ignorant with each posts with his 'hit job' glasses on.

I like his 'it's timing'..the timing isn't right...

Dude, there NEVER is a good time when something makes you uncomfortable....because while you are feeling 'it's not a good time to hash this out', for some on the other side 'NOW' is the perfect time.

BN747



I just noticed you said it was co-produced by Robert DiNiro in the opening post, the only thing we have heard out of him in the past five years is how he wants to punch Trump in the face and the like. If you don't think part of his motivation for producing this film is to help defeat Trump in 2020, I don't think you are being honest with yourself.


DeNiro has been married to a black lady for over 30 years and often calls her his best friend - so couldn’t it be more likely his primary motivation is an emotional attachment to justice for her people?
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Nah, it's not racism, it's sexism towards men. When women get rejected or lack attention, they "lash out" and try to ruin the life of the individual or individuals they feel "wronged them". While all men are victims here, black men are more likely to be a victim, as seen from this documentary and numerous other cases. Can be any crime, from crying rape to crying assault to crying robbery to anything else. The justice system in the US has always favored women (and white individuals in most cases as well), so that is why women get off easy while the men are most of the time (especially the case for black & hispanic men) found guilty and sentenced to harsh time.

That is why every time a woman tries to pull the "me too" or "I was blah blah blah" card, they should be investigated and questioned fully so innocent men such as the Central Park Five, Emmett Till, and countless others aren't locked up for life or killed for absolutely no reason because a female is "upset".


Since nobody has called this out yet - you need to get laid. Seriously.


Great counter-argument, you put a lot of thought and facts into your post.

Here's a tip - being a male feminist such as yourself will not get you laid.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:51 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Nah, it's not racism, it's sexism towards men. When women get rejected or lack attention, they "lash out" and try to ruin the life of the individual or individuals they feel "wronged them". While all men are victims here, black men are more likely to be a victim, as seen from this documentary and numerous other cases. Can be any crime, from crying rape to crying assault to crying robbery to anything else. The justice system in the US has always favored women (and white individuals in most cases as well), so that is why women get off easy while the men are most of the time (especially the case for black & hispanic men) found guilty and sentenced to harsh time.

That is why every time a woman tries to pull the "me too" or "I was blah blah blah" card, they should be investigated and questioned fully so innocent men such as the Central Park Five, Emmett Till, and countless others aren't locked up for life or killed for absolutely no reason because a female is "upset".


Since nobody has called this out yet - you need to get laid. Seriously.


Great counter-argument, you put a lot of thought and facts into your post.

Here's a tip - being a male feminist such as yourself will not get you laid.


Just an observation. I judge people on their integrity and character, not background or gender or whatever else - DGAF. My dark humor and unpredictability have always been sufficient to attract the kind of women I like - thanks for the ‘advice’ though.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
BN747 wrote:

AFC should just stop running off with mouth and watch the series, he's sounding more ignorant with each posts with his 'hit job' glasses on.

I like his 'it's timing'..the timing isn't right...

Dude, there NEVER is a good time when something makes you uncomfortable....because while you are feeling 'it's not a good time to hash this out', for some on the other side 'NOW' is the perfect time.

BN747



I just noticed you said it was co-produced by Robert DiNiro in the opening post, the only thing we have heard out of him in the past five years is how he wants to punch Trump in the face and the like. If you don't think part of his motivation for producing this film is to help defeat Trump in 2020, I don't think you are being honest with yourself.


DeNiro has been married to a black lady for over 30 years and often calls her his best friend - so couldn’t it be more likely his primary motivation is an emotional attachment to justice for her people?

De Niro???

Who cares who produced it, Hillary could have produced it AFAIK, the moron president should be thankful Spike Lee didn't produce it!

It was 1880s miscarriage of Justice committed in the late 20th century - it's a story that needed to be told regardless who was behind it's creation.

Well intermarrying/dating will place you into a world unlike your own...so yes, perhaps or he can be like my liberal friends and knows right and wrong when it comes to Justice vs Injustice no matter who suffers/ There's room for more than one perspective.

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:12 am

afcjets wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Your Central Park 5 could have been the Central Park 7 or Central Part 11..in the film they said it was a group of 30 or more.
But truth be told, it's Central Park, black kids everywhere...how are you going to gather up a group and say 'this is the group'...and it was far from it.

That was a modern day lynching.


BN747


Who said it was 30 or more, the police or the producers of the documentary or both? If you believe it was 30, you don't think any of these five who were there, confessed, knew facts even the police didn't, and bragged about it to their friends possibly were one or some of the other 29? And you also think DNA evidence during it's infancy where only one person's DNA was recovered when there were over 30 men raping her totally exonerates these guys?


You see...your comments get dumber with each posting.

In the film the police/prosecutor angle show them wittling down the suspects 'they could pin down'...you'd know that if you saw the film or read police records.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
1989worstyear
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:46 am

I don't mean to derail the subject too much, but I have one question that I haven't seen brought up:

Is a 16 year old supposed to be an adult or child under NY State law? I ask this also in regards to the more recent Khalief Browder case.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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seb146
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:30 am

1989worstyear wrote:
I don't mean to derail the subject too much, but I have one question that I haven't seen brought up:

Is a 16 year old supposed to be an adult or child under NY State law? I ask this also in regards to the more recent Khalief Browder case.


Depends.

If the accused is Black, he is an adult by Republican standards regardless of age. If the accused is White, why destroy his life? He is falsely accused and is just a kid experiencing life and testing limits. By Republican standards.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:08 am

afcjets wrote:
It is a hit job on Trump because of the timing. This story could have been told in 2002. It wasn't told before the 2016 election because everyone knew Hillary would win.

Jesus Christ get off the cross we need the wood. Trump supporters are the whiniest perpetual victims on the planet. There was a documentary on the central park five in 2012--was that to harm your snowflake dear leader then as well?

afcjets wrote:
BN747 wrote:

AFC should just stop running off with mouth and watch the series, he's sounding more ignorant with each posts with his 'hit job' glasses on.

I like his 'it's timing'..the timing isn't right...

Dude, there NEVER is a good time when something makes you uncomfortable....because while you are feeling 'it's not a good time to hash this out', for some on the other side 'NOW' is the perfect time.

BN747



I just noticed you said it was co-produced by Robert DiNiro in the opening post, the only thing we have heard out of him in the past five years is how he wants to punch Trump in the face and the like. If you don't think part of his motivation for producing this film is to help defeat Trump in 2020, I don't think you are being honest with yourself.

Do you hold Trump to that same standard or nah? Bet I can guess!

Super80Fan wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Nah, it's not racism, it's sexism towards men. When women get rejected or lack attention, they "lash out" and try to ruin the life of the individual or individuals they feel "wronged them". While all men are victims here, black men are more likely to be a victim, as seen from this documentary and numerous other cases. Can be any crime, from crying rape to crying assault to crying robbery to anything else. The justice system in the US has always favored women (and white individuals in most cases as well), so that is why women get off easy while the men are most of the time (especially the case for black & hispanic men) found guilty and sentenced to harsh time.

That is why every time a woman tries to pull the "me too" or "I was blah blah blah" card, they should be investigated and questioned fully so innocent men such as the Central Park Five, Emmett Till, and countless others aren't locked up for life or killed for absolutely no reason because a female is "upset".


Since nobody has called this out yet - you need to get laid. Seriously.


Great counter-argument, you put a lot of thought and facts into your post.

Here's a tip - being a male feminist such as yourself will not get you laid.

Oooh a real life incel. Fun!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
apodino
Posts: 3557
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:51 pm

There are some serious conspiracy theories on this thread and it makes me sick. The fact that someone would even suggest this was held until now for political gain is total BS. Even Fox News would never claim this on their opinion shows. And stuff like this from Trump supporters actually make it harder for Trump, as they do him no favors with this kind of crap.

One other thing, trying juveniles as Adults is something that many conservatives advocate for and run as campaign issues. It is not a practice I generally agree with regardless of race. Conservatives tend to just go for maximum punishment every time, and its not something that I think is really prudent. Many people are getting sick of this mindset in places as well, which is why you are seeing more progressive DA's get elected, like what happened in Queens earlier this week. The downside to this is you get people like Kim Foxx elected.

As I say in most cases, Balance is key.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: A Sure Cure for the Most Blatant Racists

Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:43 pm

mham001 wrote:

I don't doubt that black African immigrants do better, that actually proves my point, why does a black African do better in racist white America than a black born in the US, realistically, how many of their parents parents had expectations of college-or-else pounded into their heads from an early age? Like US blacks, probably few, Conversely, how many of them have had generations of welfare experience to draw from? Few to none. Those are part of the Democratic victimhood policies that I believe continue the "oppression" of US blacks. Combine that with the open border fantasies in the liberal regions and who are the first to suffer? Blacks. Seriously, read the LA Times report on the UCLA study of black employment in Los Angeles County.


I think you're incorrect here. On a personal level, I'm the child of African immigrants and there definitely is immense pressure to attend college and to do well in school. Like many immigrant groups, when people bring their families over to the US one of the biggest reasons is for educational opportunities for themselves and their children. If you take a look at https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/7/2/24/pdf you'll also find that in this survey, Africans felt family pressure to attend college significantly higher than African Americans or even Whites did (65% to 37%, and 39%, respectively). This is why I'm saying there really is no comparison there between African Americans and immigrant groups. No other group in this country has been through the experience African-Americans have historically been through. I mean we're talking about the existence of segregation not thaaat long ago.


mham001 wrote:
I know your experience with private school students is true, those students have parents who care and make sure their kids are performing. They are made to finish their homework and are expected to score on the tests. This is the culture needed to succeed. In my area, along the same line, there are charter schools for the less affluent but educationally-focused - aimed at the exact demographic we are speaking of. Who is continually trying to shut them down? Democrats, beholden to the teacher's union, just another example of that Democratic oppression. I genuinely believe blacks as a whole have been and continue to be dealt a bad hand but I take exception to this routine refrain that today, it is all at the hands of eevil white Republican types.


My issue with this argument is Republicans tend to act like they really care about Black (and other minority issues) when they really just use this as a talking point to take shots and say that Democratic policies "haven't worked." The truth is for the Republican party, these issues aren't high on the priority list at all and Republicans have gone out of their way to suppress voter participation from African-Americans. Atrocious federal response to Katrina and Maria (both under Republican administrations), where the vast majority of those affected were minorities leaves a bad impression in these communities and doesn't make it seem like Republicans do care. Additionally, (and I'm not claiming that Republicans are racist) but virtually all anti-minority and white supremacists would align themselves with the Republican party or Republican candidates, which seems to me to be indicative of the fact that again Republicans don't really care about these minority groups.

You're definitely right that Republicans aren't at all primarily responsible for racial inequality, but to allude that given the opportunity Republicans would do a better job here is pretty ludicrous in my opinion.

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