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jdstJD
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Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:40 pm

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/ ... 20-1391212

For everyone who likes to label Democrats and liberals as being all about identity politics, here’s an article from Politico that reflects that not all Democrats, and particularly black Democrats, automatically support those tactics. At a minimum, as is usually the case with all political parties and their supporters, there are nuances and differences of opinion on pretty much all of the controversial issues. Frankly I wasn’t too thrilled with her approach myself. Enjoy and discuss if you’d like.
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trpmb6
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:52 pm

I always felt identity politics produces short term gains at the expense of long term strategy (and ultimately support). Say Biden becomes the eventual nominee. What does Harris do at that point? She'd have a good shot at being AG under a biden administration. But the way she's framed her view of him she wouldn't even be able to go out and throw support behind him at the convention!

I suspect, as you noted, that many folks do pay attention to these strategies and form their own opinions about the candidate over a much longer period of time than just a single debate night.
 
seb146
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:58 pm

Harris is also facing birtherism.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kamala-har ... 019-06-29/

Could it be that she is simply appealing to the lowest common denominator because it worked in 2016 and has been working since 2016? Everyone is expecting Democrats to be the adult but Republicans don't seem to want that. Look how they fawn all over the occupant of the White House and his constant childish comments. Maybe this is what will get her elected then she can go back to being a rational, functioning adult?
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Spar
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:58 pm

In normal times, Harris would be considered a conservative better suited as a member of the Republican party. Her pedigree is that of a fairly hard nosed prosecutor and AG; low ball never has been out of character for her. I have yet to understand how Willie Brown's coattails have carried her this far onto the national stage.
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:36 pm

You have to remember that what Harris did was totally orchestrated against the front runner and a masterful stroke in that she did gain some polling points. Can she win the primary? Probably not because the party will fall in line but it is fun to watch.
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KLDC10
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:27 pm

It's a poor tactic, especially if Biden does (as is widely expected) emerge as nominee. It could turn off minority voters.
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Spar
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:36 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
It's a poor tactic, especially if Biden does (as is widely expected) emerge as nominee. It could turn off minority voters.

Similar to the way Bernie undermined Hillary and gave us Trump.
If anybody craves a totally self centered president, there is no need to campaign for Bernie or Harris, we already have Trump.
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:38 pm

It may be more orchestrated that that....

I think a great election ticket combination could be Biden-Harris. It primes Harris for the top seat and gives the rest of current voters the "experience" etc. they seem to want at the moment. Of course for that to happen Harris would have to reconcile the issues she has raised with Biden, but if she can artfully do that, and do it convincingly, then Biden is well "proofed" from such attacks and lingering voter concerns that might be hanging around to torpedo him.

Not saying it will happen but it would be brilliant if it did.

Tugg
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
It may be more orchestrated that that....

I think a great election ticket combination could be Biden-Harris. It primes Harris for the top seat and gives the rest of current voters the "experience" etc. they seem to want at the moment. Of course for that to happen Harris would have to reconcile the issues she has raised with Biden, but if she can artfully do that, and do it convincingly, then Biden is well "proofed" from such attacks and lingering voter concerns that might be hanging around to torpedo him.

Not saying it will happen but it would be brilliant if it did.

Tugg


I'm not convinced, it seemed to be a really visceral attack on Biden's political activity in the past. Biden seemed genuinely taken aback and I would be very surprised if the two were to come together on the eventual Democratic ticket.

That said, perhaps a lot of this will hinge on what happens in the next debates.
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NIKV69
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:16 pm

Tugger wrote:

I think a great election ticket combination could be Biden-Harris. It primes Harris for the top seat and gives the rest of current voters the "experience" etc. they seem to want at the moment. Of course for that to happen Harris would have to reconcile the issues she has raised with Biden, but if she can artfully do that, and do it convincingly, then Biden is well "proofed" from such attacks and lingering voter concerns that might be hanging around to torpedo him.

Not saying it will happen but it would be brilliant if it did.

Tugg


I disagree, to win the general you need independent voters and with Biden looking a bit long in the tooth no independent will vote for him knowing Harris is in the White house if something happens to him. He is going to be pressured to have Harris as his running mate but he stands a better chance with Gabbard or Klobuchar.
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:30 pm

All of this is natural and to be expected in a healthy democratic primary. There are issues to differentiate themselves on, and at this point if the biggest controversy is over issue statements from 30 years ago, then the hatchet will be easy to bury.

These candidates are looking for support and funding to pull them through to the primaries. If we get to the level of Lying Ted, then there will be some bigger issues.


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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:40 pm

I loved how Kamala Harris owned Joe Biden and he totally faltered under the attack. And that despite the fact that Kamala Harris has more than enough dirt on her hands regarding racism and all locking up droves of people with undue harshness. He just didn't know how to strike back, very weak.
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:31 am

aviationaware wrote:
I loved how Kamala Harris owned Joe Biden and he totally faltered under the attack. And that despite the fact that Kamala Harris has more than enough dirt on her hands regarding racism and all locking up droves of people with undue harshness. He just didn't know how to strike back, very weak.


Red states should love a Democrat who was a hard-nosed DA/AG with a record of locking up heaps of blacks and browns.
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:58 am

jdstJD wrote:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-joe-biden-2020-1391212

For everyone who likes to label Democrats and liberals as being all about identity politics, here’s an article from Politico that reflects that not all Democrats, and particularly black Democrats, automatically support those tactics. At a minimum, as is usually the case with all political parties and their supporters, there are nuances and differences of opinion on pretty much all of the controversial issues. Frankly I wasn’t too thrilled with her approach myself. Enjoy and discuss if you’d like.


Curious what you or other blacks think of white liberals who so gleefully jump on that bandwagon, commonly on display in this forum?
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:35 am

I did a little reading up on busing in Berkeley. Biden has actually screwed the pooch so to speak. he should have been more open and just said, "Yes, I was against it and history has proven me right - it didn't work" as students and schools are more segregated today than they were 50 years ago and minorities dislike it just about as much as whites. I thought the Berkeley busing link was interesting because PBS produced a documentary on race at Berkeley High School in 1994 named School Colors. 28 years after busing was implemented in Berkeley, the high school was thoroughly divided, the racial divides stark among the student body and busing had clearly not produced the puppies and rainbows utopian life as envisioned.
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:05 am

mham001 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/30/kamala-harris-joe-biden-2020-1391212

For everyone who likes to label Democrats and liberals as being all about identity politics, here’s an article from Politico that reflects that not all Democrats, and particularly black Democrats, automatically support those tactics. At a minimum, as is usually the case with all political parties and their supporters, there are nuances and differences of opinion on pretty much all of the controversial issues. Frankly I wasn’t too thrilled with her approach myself. Enjoy and discuss if you’d like.



Curious what you or other blacks think of white liberals who so gleefully jump on that bandwagon, commonly on display in this forum?


I can only speak for myself. I don’t care whether it’s a black liberal, white liberal, black conservative or a white conservative. No one should jump on any bandwagon. Use the good brain God have you and think through the issues thoroughly and arrive at your own personal position on it. Apparently this is what happened in the article and I’m glad it did.
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jdstJD
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:09 am

mham001 wrote:
I did a little reading up on busing in Berkeley. Biden has actually screwed the pooch so to speak. he should have been more open and just said, "Yes, I was against it and history has proven me right - it didn't work" as students and schools are more segregated today than they were 50 years ago and minorities dislike it just about as much as whites. I thought the Berkeley busing link was interesting because PBS produced a documentary on race at Berkeley High School in 1994 named School Colors. 28 years after busing was implemented in Berkeley, the high school was thoroughly divided, the racial divides stark among the student body and busing had clearly not produced the puppies and rainbows utopian life as envisioned.


We only know the results on bussing because of the impact society saw that it had years later. At the time It was an attempt to move forward with the integration policy that wasn’t being enforced by state and local officials. The fact that it didn’t work was a result of the feverish resistance to integration. I don’t fault congress or any other authorities that tried it to see if it would work. Hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:33 am

jdstJD wrote:
We only know the results on bussing because of the impact society saw that it had years later. At the time It was an attempt to move forward with the integration policy that wasn’t being enforced by state and local officials. The fact that it didn’t work was a result of the feverish resistance to integration. I don’t fault congress or any other authorities that tried it to see if it would work. Hindsight is 20/20.


I went to school in the 90s in a city which did bus kids from impoverished neighborhoods to better schools. It was easy to do since all of Las Vegas was the same school district. I'm not convinced that busing was a positive solution. I got the impression that integration busing caused more problems than it solved - forcing the poor kids to get up earlier, take longer commutes (which increases risks of being in an accident), more time away from home, not having the same social interaction opportunities outside of school hours as the other kids in the school who lived closer to the school and to each other, etc. Society would be much better off making schools in poorer neighborhoods higher quality and doing away with property tax based school funding than awkward integrating. On this issue, I think Biden was right to oppose it on the national level, but I think he defended himself poorly and gifted Kamala the win.
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:48 am

Why do you Dems want to hand Trump the election? The Dems need someone not afraind to speak their mind, not afraid to defend themselves/their views, and being a little more progressive. At this current point in time Biden is not showing any of that. Go for someone like Harris, Castro, Warren, or Booker who is doing all of that.
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BN747
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:01 am

More 'toast' for Biden...
...his son tried to buy crack in LA in 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/w-house-hope ... 55797.html

...your kid being a crackhead will end your career. Hmmmm who was that member telling Dems they'd better go Biden.


Don't Vote Rapist
BN74?
Last edited by BN747 on Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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seb146
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:18 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Why do you Dems want to hand Trump the election? The Dems need someone not afraind to speak their mind, not afraid to defend themselves/their views, and being a little more progressive. At this current point in time Biden is not showing any of that. Go for someone like Harris, Castro, Warren, or Booker who is doing all of that.


Here is the problem with Democrats being progressive and speaking their mind: righties and some moderates complain and whine they are too aggressive and talking down and pandering and not being adult. The right needs to make up their mind: Do they want our candidate to pander and act like their candidate or do they want our candidate to be an adult?
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:18 am

The idea that she's not a black american because her "blackness" is from Jamaica, is that stupid or stupid ? Jamaican blacks were African slaves too, dumbo !
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:33 am

BN747 wrote:
More 'toast' for Biden...
...his son tried to buy crack in LA in 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/w-house-hope ... 55797.html

...your kid being a crackhead will end your career. Hmmmm who was that member telling Dems they'd better go Biden.


Don't Vote Rapist
BN74?

Just another liberal lamestream media outlet covering up for...oh wait..
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:41 pm

BN747 wrote:
More 'toast' for Biden...
...his son tried to buy crack in LA in 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/w-house-hope ... 55797.html

...your kid being a crackhead will end your career. Hmmmm who was that member telling Dems they'd better go Biden.


Don't Vote Rapist
BN74?


You didn’t vote for Slick Willie or didbdojbg so taught you a lesson?
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:51 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Why do you Dems want to hand Trump the election? The Dems need someone not afraind to speak their mind, not afraid to defend themselves/their views, and being a little more progressive. At this current point in time Biden is not showing any of that. Go for someone like Harris, Castro, Warren, or Booker who is doing all of that.


My concern is that some of their boldness and their positions in issues likely are not what middle America is comfortable with yet. I understand the desire for the idealistic platform including universal health care, loan forgiveness, free college, reparations, etc., but many of those ideas get tuned out by a large portion of the country. If those candidates are too forceful with those positions I think the right will get more traction with their socialism label. Dems have to be smart and strategic. Moderate to get in office, then implement some of the policies they think are best for the country while in office as they succeed in proving to the country that they will work.
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aviationaware
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:26 pm

jdstJD wrote:

My concern is that some of their boldness and their positions in issues likely are not what middle America is comfortable with yet.


Bingo, and strike the yet. We will never be. Because those ideas are total lunacy. Free healthcare for illegals is going to make Trump fly to reelection. And gay reparations, myself being gay, just make me want to smack my head against the next wall. How anyone could ever even get that idea and take it seriously is totally beyond my comprehension.

Being for single payer healthcare is now a moderate position for the Democratic field, and that's NOT good for the country and NOT good for their election chances.
 
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:37 pm

Single payer healthcare is fine in other countries, and supported by left and right-wing governments alike.

Meanwhile in the US people die because they can't afford insulin.
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jdstJD
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:40 pm

aviationaware wrote:
jdstJD wrote:

My concern is that some of their boldness and their positions in issues likely are not what middle America is comfortable with yet.


Bingo, and strike the yet. We will never be. Because those ideas are total lunacy. Free healthcare for illegals is going to make Trump fly to reelection. And gay reparations, myself being gay, just make me want to smack my head against the next wall. How anyone could ever even get that idea and take it seriously is totally beyond my comprehension.

Being for single payer healthcare is now a moderate position for the Democratic field, and that's NOT good for the country and NOT good for their election chances.


Well, couple of things to correct the record of what I said. I do not think free healthcare for illegals is in any way a supportable position. If that were the main idea they were running on I would NEVER vote for a Democrat. I hope they back off of that. And I am one who gets sick at the thought of trump being president, let alone being re-elected. I wouldn’t vote for him but I don’t think I could vote for the dem either which would REALLY piss me off.

Secondly, I wasn’t talking about reparations for gays, I was talking about reparations for black people. I didn’t even know there was a movement for reparations for gay people.
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Tugger
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:54 pm

Aesma wrote:
Single payer healthcare is fine in other countries, and supported by left and right-wing governments alike.

Meanwhile in the US people die because they can't afford insulin.

The problem is that the politicians do not want to charge the people using it what it costs. Interestingly, those other countries you speak of, charge their citizens more than the pols in the USA are willing to admit to the American public that they would have to pay. We want "free", we want "free healthcare". But that is utterly impossible.

This is an interesting read on the issue. Yes there is more but it does capture a lot of the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

jdstJD wrote:
I do not think free healthcare for illegals is in any way a supportable position. If that were the main idea they were running on I would NEVER vote for a Democrat. I hope they back off of that.

Yeah, that is a singularly stupid plan. And I live in a state where they are basically doing that. It is unsupportable beyond the required care for urgent situations.

Tugg
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NIKV69
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
More 'toast' for Biden...
...his son tried to buy crack in LA in 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/w-house-hope ... 55797.html

...your kid being a crackhead will end your career. Hmmmm who was that member telling Dems they'd better go Biden.


Don't Vote Rapist
BN74?


Since you can't go a single thread without obsessing over me I will bite. Kamala and the base of her party who are fringe left are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at him because they can't win on the issues. She has outed herself a candidate who wants us to be San Francisco and that won't carry OH or FL or any state she really needs if she wins the primary and gets to the general but like I said don't go with Biden please elect her because watching her lose will 20 times more satisfying than watching Hillary lose to Trump.

Ok you can call me a racist now.

:wave:
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BN747
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
More 'toast' for Biden...
...his son tried to buy crack in LA in 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/w-house-hope ... 55797.html

...your kid being a crackhead will end your career. Hmmmm who was that member telling Dems they'd better go Biden.


Don't Vote Rapist
BN74?


Since you can't go a single thread without obsessing over me I will bite. Kamala and the base of her party who are fringe left are going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at him because they can't win on the issues. She has outed herself a candidate who wants us to be San Francisco and that won't carry OH or FL or any state she really needs if she wins the primary and gets to the general but like I said don't go with Biden please elect her because watching her lose will 20 times more satisfying than watching Hillary lose to Trump.

Ok you can call me a racist now.

:wave:


Awww man, my obsession must be slacking off..last 100 post missed you completely!

But you know what you are where you stand..and people your age rarely, if ever.. change...but remember, 'Don't Vote Rapist'


And think it's unanimous (worthwide) tha San Francisco is head over heels better than Every Red State, Most Blue states...sooo yeah, it'd be a colossal improvement!

Don't Vote Rapist
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
aviationaware
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:59 pm

jdstJD wrote:

Secondly, I wasn’t talking about reparations for gays, I was talking about reparations for black people. I didn’t even know there was a movement for reparations for gay people.


Well there is.

That being said, black people don't need reparations and they don't need handouts. They need jobs and education. And the Trump administration policies are at least providing the former with black unemployment at an all time low. Black people certainly don't need more of the same Democratic policies that put them in the place they are in now, where they are basically self-segregating and allowing themselves to be abused by leaders who don't have their best interest at heart.
 
BN747
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:17 pm

aviationaware wrote:
jdstJD wrote:

Secondly, I wasn’t talking about reparations for gays, I was talking about reparations for black people. I didn’t even know there was a movement for reparations for gay people.


Well there is.

That being said, black people don't need reparations and they don't need handouts. They need jobs and education. And the Trump administration policies are at least providing the former with black unemployment at an all time low. Black people certainly don't need more of the same Democratic policies that put them in the place they are in now, where they are basically self-segregating and allowing themselves to be abused by leaders who don't have their best interest at heart.


You need to seriously educate yourself on a number things.

1. You state a movement of reparations for Gays, then say not a single word to back that up. That flies out the window.

2. Then you fly off with your brain-washed babble about how well versed you are about 'what Blacks need', not thought up by you...but a platter provided to you via Ingraham, Limbaugh, Hannity and the other racist idols of America.

3. An Economy where people need two (or more) jobs in order to 'Survive'...is NOT a good economy. It is great economy for those able to invest in the market - MOST Americans are not apart of that.

4. The employment/jobs stats do not truly reflect what is happening in real life, going from a McDonalds shift to a Wendy's can only endure for so long. And if you aren't doing that at this very moment, then you have not a clue of the lives of those who are doing exactly that.

5. Your take on 'debts owed' and wholesale dismissal of Reparations to pay for the very - of which - your present comfy life would not be possible is telling of your inability to recognize the costs, in human, blood, life and destruction that made it possible is one that assures an even more screwed up society to come. Your mind translate that history as if it never occurred at all. That is why you dismiss it with such ease. Selfishness and Greed serve as perfect side dishes to enable such thoughts.


Don't Vote Rapist...and in this case, Racists!
BN747
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NIKV69
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:22 pm

BN747 wrote:

Awww man, my obsession must be slacking off..last 100 post missed you completely!

But you know what you are where you stand..and people your age rarely, if ever.. change...but remember, 'Don't Vote Rapist'


And think it's unanimous (worthwide) tha San Francisco is head over heels better than Every Red State, Most Blue states...sooo yeah, it'd be a colossal improvement!

Don't Vote Rapist
BN747


Identity politics rears it's ugly head once again. I could vote for a democrat like Cuomo but you insist on putting fringe out there. It's ok that hate police high tax nanny state stuff is great in SF but that's about it. You need elect-ability which Harris doesn't have but it feeds your hatred for anyone that would dare for that Biden. BTW you voted for a rapist when you voted for Bill Clinton. :wave:
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:33 pm

BN747 wrote:

1. You state a movement of reparations for Gays, then say not a single word to back that up. That flies out the window.


Really? How about using google. Too difficult for you? *Sigh* oh well...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/opin ... ewall.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-right ... ns-rathole

BN747 wrote:
2. Then you fly off with your brain-washed babble about how well versed you are about 'what Blacks need', not thought up by you...but a platter provided to you via Ingraham, Limbaugh, Hannity and the other racist idols of America.

So because some people whose shows I watch maybe once a month say the same as I do I can't possibly have thought it up myself. Gotcha.

BN747 wrote:
3. An Economy where people need two (or more) jobs in order to 'Survive'...is NOT a good economy. It is great economy for those able to invest in the market - MOST Americans are not apart of that.


Most Americans are not working two jobs. That's a tiny minority, and the way to fight that is not socialism but better education. if you don't have any skills beyond flipping burgers and no will to acquire more, don't complain about having to work two jobs, that's my suggestion. I know single mothers who have worked their way out of having two jobs by educating themselves, if they can do it everyone can. It's merely a matter of discipline and will.


BN747 wrote:
4. The employment/jobs stats do not truly reflect what is happening in real life, going from a McDonalds shift to a Wendy's can only endure for so long. And if you aren't doing that at this very moment, then you have not a clue of the lives of those who are doing exactly that.


See above. Also, people having two jobs does not influence jobless numbers in the least bit. I know your idol AOC claimed that once, but it's not true.

BN747 wrote:
5. Your take on 'debts owed' and wholesale dismissal of Reparations to pay for the very - of which - your present comfy life would not be possible is telling of your inability to recognize the costs, in human, blood, life and destruction that made it possible is one that assures an even more screwed up society to come. Your mind translate that history as if it never occurred at all. That is why you dismiss it with such ease. Selfishness and Greed serve as perfect side dishes to enable such thoughts.



I never denied that egregious crimes were committed against the black community in the US. But the idea that reparations are the way to go to rectify that is just screamingly stupid. One off payments seep away. We need better education and equal opportunity for black people. Saying that white people need to shut up and make way for them is not the way to go about that.
 
texdravid
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:50 pm

I almost feel sorry for Old Joe.
I said almost, as he himself isn’t above racial politics with his infamous “He’ll out y’all back in chains” comments.

However, from a strict political/electoral move, Democrats are blowing it as usual.

To win, Biden needs to be comfortably nominated with the least fuss and then come together for the general election against Trump.

As a Republican, Old Joe is easily the strongest candidate and automatically wins Pennsylvania in my opinion with a great chance to win Wisconsin and Michigan and reestablish the blue Midwest wall.

But democrats being democrats, playing racial politics is their motto and this weakening Joe so KKKamela wins means disaster. She will do poorly in the upper Midwest. She will NOT win those aforementioned states that Joe will.

Oh well good news for me.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
BN747
Posts: 6536
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:03 am

aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:

1. You state a movement of reparations for Gays, then say not a single word to back that up. That flies out the window.


Really? How about using google. Too difficult for you? *Sigh* oh well...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/opin ... ewall.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-right ... ns-rathole.



Well thanks for that. I did not know such a thing existed.
From your 1st link...
The Case for Gay Reparation
Other countries are taking steps to atone for their shameful past treatment of L.G.B.T. people. The United States should too.


That's all I had to read to conclude that Gay Reparations are indeed worth pursuing. Unlike you, I am aware of the horrific treatment of gays/lesbians worldwide, the great documentary narrated by Peter Coyote (and others like Stonewall)and the number of gay friends and family have - for years have kept me abreast of difficulties in their lives.

I would wholly welcome such a move.

But I would wonder...how many 'closeted' types would breakout filing claims of 'Society + Church forced me to live in the closet, get married, have kids, etc'...
...to that I say, "you should have never listened to society, because most of it's members are moored to ignorance. Always have been and always will be.


aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:
2. Then you fly off with your brain-washed babble about how well versed you are about 'what Blacks need', not thought up by you...but a platter provided to you via Ingraham, Limbaugh, Hannity and the other racist idols of America.

So because some people whose shows I watch maybe once a month say the same as I do I can't possibly have thought it up myself. Gotcha..


Yes, you choose who to listen to... instead of engaging and experimenting for yourself.

aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:
3. An Economy where people need two (or more) jobs in order to 'Survive'...is NOT a good economy. It is great economy for those able to invest in the market - MOST Americans are not apart of that.


Most Americans are not working two jobs. That's a tiny minority, and the way to fight that is not socialism but better education. if you don't have any skills beyond flipping burgers and no will to acquire more, don't complain about having to work two jobs, that's my suggestion. I know single mothers who have worked their way out of having two jobs by educating themselves, if they can do it everyone can. It's merely a matter of discipline and will.


Oh, and you are under the delusion that MOST Americans are working in $100K yearly working for Boeing, Google, GM, US Govt, etc huh?
Have you any idea what America would look like were that true?

Google will help you too...just look and see where most and how much most Americans are earning, hint:Walmart, Amazon, small businesses - NOT paying anywhere near that and in need of Uber/Lyft jobs to pay the bills.

My, the clueless is strong with this one.


aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:
4. The employment/jobs stats do not truly reflect what is happening in real life, going from a McDonalds shift to a Wendy's can only endure for so long. And if you aren't doing that at this very moment, then you have not a clue of the lives of those who are doing exactly that.


See above. Also, people having two jobs does not influence jobless numbers in the least bit. I know your idol AOC claimed that once, but it's not true.


More Google needed dude...it's free.

aviationaware wrote:
BN747 wrote:
5. Your take on 'debts owed' and wholesale dismissal of Reparations to pay for the very - of which - your present comfy life would not be possible is telling of your inability to recognize the costs, in human, blood, life and destruction that made it possible is one that assures an even more screwed up society to come. Your mind translate that history as if it never occurred at all. That is why you dismiss it with such ease. Selfishness and Greed serve as perfect side dishes to enable such thoughts.



I never denied that egregious crimes were committed against the black community in the US. But the idea that reparations are the way to go to rectify that is just screamingly stupid. One off payments seep away. We need better education and equal opportunity for black people. Saying that white people need to shut up and make way for them is not the way to go about that.


Yes, we need BETTER education for all! Period, it is the only way to move the masses from the shadow of ignorance.

No, you did not deny the 'egregious crimes' of slavery, but you dismiss it like a bird turd on your car windshield not giving it a second thought but giving zero value, appreciating and understanding just like those mindless drones you listen to..tells exactly what is important to you - and what is not.

And yes, given your throbbing hard-on foe 'good economy performance' under scores your prizing of 'money/income' value over all things...that's where your greed unmask itself. The selfishness is woven into those thoughts as well but also in their concerns for gay-wrong doings versus the wrong doing of blacks in America. History Hurts.


Don't Vote Rapist

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:22 am

Around one million Americans are working two jobs. That's a tiny minority. As long as you keep pretending that this is a widespread problem, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
 
BN747
Posts: 6536
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 am

aviationaware wrote:
Around one million Americans are working two jobs. That's a tiny minority. As long as you keep pretending that this is a widespread problem, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.


Hmmmm that's it?

That's all you've got?...I guess your source and that tells me how you process information vs how tuned into reality you are.

But as for the rest of my last post...still trying to see where you went wrong eh?

Don't Vote Rapist
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mham001
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:34 am

BN747 wrote:

You need to seriously educate yourself on a number things.

2. Then you fly off with your brain-washed babble about how well versed you are about 'what Blacks need', not thought up by you...but a platter provided to you via Ingraham, Limbaugh, Hannity and the other racist idols of America.


So you are saying blacks don't need better education? And that notion is "racist"? Because some eevil Republican said so? Ha, in plain sight we can see who is holding down the black man.


BN747 wrote:
4. The employment/jobs stats do not truly reflect what is happening in real life, going from a McDonalds shift to a Wendy's can only endure for so long. And if you aren't doing that at this very moment, then you have not a clue of the lives of those who are doing exactly that.


I have news for you, it has always been that way. Minimum wage jobs (which McDonalds is not btw) have never covered living expenses in my lifetime, I know this from personal experience, apparently you are the one who's never actually been there.
 
BN747
Posts: 6536
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:38 am

Biden - Harris a virtual tie.

Biden - 22
Harris - 20

Says Quinipiac
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/quinn ... id/923071/

..all done in a week.

More 'toast', Uncle Joe?

Don't Vote Rapist
BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
apodino
Posts: 3545
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:09 am

Biden is now getting support from Former Senator Carol Mosely-Braun, from IL. (Her seat is now held by Tammy Duckworth) Carol Mosely-Braun is herself a Black Woman, and she served in the Senate alongside Joe Biden. Few people may know who she is now, but I don't think an educated voter should ignore her.

As for Harris, I have the perfect argument against busing. The issue with Busing is that Buses run on Diesel. If you bus more and more kids across further distances, the buses use that much more diesel, and thus you have increased the contributions to climate change. I get the integration issue that she is addressing, but you are not going to solve that problem while adding to the climate change disaster we have brewing.

Harris is a great debater, but now she is going to face increased scrutiny as a higher polling candidate. And one good debate performance doesn't mean much this early in the campaign. Carly Fiorina had a great debate performance at this time four years ago, and got a bump in the polls, but became a non factor by the time the actual votes were cast. And Iowa and New Hampshire are two states that I don't think suit her political style very well. Retail politicking is everything in Iowa and New Hampshire, and Harris does not strike me well as a retail politicker. Warren, Biden, Sanders, and even Buttigieg all seem much more suited to that style, and so does Castro.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 11631
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Re: Harris-Biden Controversy: Not the reaction you’d expect

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Single payer healthcare is fine in other countries, and supported by left and right-wing governments alike.

Meanwhile in the US people die because they can't afford insulin.

The problem is that the politicians do not want to charge the people using it what it costs. Interestingly, those other countries you speak of, charge their citizens more than the pols in the USA are willing to admit to the American public that they would have to pay. We want "free", we want "free healthcare". But that is utterly impossible.

This is an interesting read on the issue. Yes there is more but it does capture a lot of the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
Tugg


The wapo article is interesting but doesn't mention income tax. Sure, middle class families pay lots of tax, but higher than that, you pay even more, nobody is escaping taxation. At the end of the day, people in these countries seem quite happy with the end result.

It seems what Sanders is talking about is more akin to the French or UK system.

Also, what is very important to the Dems, and I agree with them, is that poor people get covered. If you can't pay, you're still covered.

That's quite fundamental, and in France people like to rail against taxation, the yellow vests protests being the latest example, but if we changed our healthcare system to one like in the US, we'd have a new revolution for sure.
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