aviationaware
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Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:21 pm

I just almost fell off my chair. They couldn't have selected a better person to prove that the EU is totally off the rockers. Ursula von der Leyen, throughout her career as a government minister in Germany, has only ever made news through er ineptitude, incompetence and one scandal after another.

Right now the Defense Ministry which she is currently heading is being investigated for pay to play corruption by the German parliament regarding the hiring of consultancy firms, mainly Accenture, without adhering to normal hiring rules (tendering). The scandal's genesis began with von der Leyen hiring former McKinsey partner Kathrin Suder as her majordomo. Coincidence? I think not.

That alone would be enough to make her totally unsuitable for any other government position, certainly enough to disqualify her for the top job. But instead she is being pushed to the European stage. This is a flashback to times when the EU was used by the national governments to sideline politicians that were unwanted at home to give them a nice well paid sendoff.

But lo and behold, of course she is also (though not alone, I'll give her that. Plenty of losers before her contributed, since this greasy sleaze Guttenberg who is now pretending to be a Venture Capitalist) responsible for rendering the German military totally incapacitated to the point that a single US division could overrun Germany if required.

Shameful, just shameful.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-s ... SKCN1TX2G9
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:40 pm

Thank god we are leaving.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:20 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Thank god we are leaving.

To end up with commie Corbyn as the PM?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:14 am

I read some French left-wing types claim she's part of the military–industrial lobby, yet Germany's military is in a sorry state, so which is which ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:13 am

It's a joke. The entire Election Campaign was based on the Spitzenkandidat system, which has just been abandoned. The way the EU has gone about this really is indefensible.
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N14AZ
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:30 am

Aesma wrote:
I read some French left-wing types claim she's part of the military–industrial lobby, yet Germany's military is in a sorry state, so which is which ?

It's not a contradiction. They say she supported some consultancy firms and you know the joke about consultants ("Consultants borrow your watch to tell you the time").... :duck:
 
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Aesma
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:09 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
It's a joke. The entire Election Campaign was based on the Spitzenkandidat system, which has just been abandoned. The way the EU has gone about this really is indefensible.


If Weber is the one that blocked transnational parties, it's well deserved. You can't have Spitzenkandidaten that a country like France has never heard about and are not part of the election at all.

I just listened to a German on the radio very unhappy with the result, saying Ursula von der Leyen has sold the German defense companies and contracts to France (me thinks, if you don't buy your own stuff, things like that happen). He was also critical of Merkel for having supported Weber, basically saying that's supporting such a feeble candidate was what killed the Spitzenkandidat system.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Loew
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:26 pm

Main point here is that the V4 countries, and eastern EU in general completely lost their representation. Yes, Timmermans is no the EUCO president, however price for this achievement is the fact, that neither V4 nor other eastern EU countries got any representation in EU bodies after this EU council summit. Poland and Hungary can really congratulate themselves on this.
 
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Loew
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:28 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
It's a joke. The entire Election Campaign was based on the Spitzenkandidat system, which has just been abandoned. The way the EU has gone about this really is indefensible.


Yeah? And who cares what do you think about the EU in Moscow?
 
KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
If Weber is the one that blocked transnational parties, it's well deserved. You can't have Spitzenkandidaten that a country like France has never heard about and are not part of the election at all.

I just listened to a German on the radio very unhappy with the result, saying Ursula von der Leyen has sold the German defense companies and contracts to France (me thinks, if you don't buy your own stuff, things like that happen). He was also critical of Merkel for having supported Weber, basically saying that's supporting such a feeble candidate was what killed the Spitzenkandidat system.


Les Republicains are aligned with Weber's EPP in the European Parliament and he was presented throughout Europe as the Spitzenkandidat. He launched his campaign in Greece and became a prominent figure during the election cycle. He even became known in the UK. Ursula von der Leyen is the real unknown.

Yes, I understand she is an unpopular figure in Germany. Reportedly her handling of the German defence apparatus leaves much to be desired. The operational readiness of the Bundeswehr is really quite shocking.

But, even leaving her record aside, there is a far bigger elephant in the room; namely the German Parliamentary Investigation Committee which was set up only this year to investigate potential wrongdoing relating to government procurement. As usual, it appears that the alleged cover up (the destruction of documents) could be worse than the initial misdeed.
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KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm

Loew wrote:
Yeah? And who cares what do you think about the EU in Moscow?


In consistently accusing me of being some sort of troll, you make yourself look obsessive. It's not a good a look. I am perfectly entitled to express an opinion without being accused of being some kind of Russian plant simply because you don't like what I have to say.
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Olddog
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:37 pm

Aesma wrote:
He was also critical of Merkel for having supported Weber, basically saying that's supporting such a feeble candidate was what killed the Spitzenkandidat system.


I think that was killed the Spitzenkandidat system is mainly the election result. For 40 years the two main party were sharing the top posts between them. Fortunately the electorate changed that.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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Aesma
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:07 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Les Republicains are aligned with Weber's EPP in the European Parliament and he was presented throughout Europe as the Spitzenkandidat. He launched his campaign in Greece and became a prominent figure during the election cycle. He even became known in the UK. Ursula von der Leyen is the real unknown.


Well LR did 8,5% in the election, their worst election result at these EU elections, and probably (someone check) in history at any election since the French revolution. The campaign was a national one like always, and until that changes, the Spitzencandidat system can't work.

KLDC10 wrote:
Yes, I understand she is an unpopular figure in Germany. Reportedly her handling of the German defence apparatus leaves much to be desired. The operational readiness of the Bundeswehr is really quite shocking.


I really don't know anything about her or her actions, but it seems to me Germany has not invested in its military for a long time, parties campaign on which one can spend less than the other on the military, so the result is not really surprising.

Germany being very industrialized, spending more on its military, and also on its infrastructure, wouldn't even have cost much, as it could easily be recouped with the increase in economic activity.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:25 pm

Aesma wrote:
Well LR did 8,5% in the election, their worst election result at these EU elections, and probably (someone check) in history at any election since the French revolution. The campaign was a national one like always, and until that changes, the Spitzencandidat system can't work.


I would be minded to agree with you that there are problems with the Spitzenkandidat system. However, since the election was conducted on that basis, I do take the view that the system should be honoured. I accept that EU leaders are not obliged to do so, but the time to abandon the Spitzenkandidat system was before the election, not after it.

Aesma wrote:
I really don't know anything about her or her actions, but it seems to me Germany has not invested in its military for a long time, parties campaign on which one can spend less than the other on the military, so the result is not really surprising.

Germany being very industrialized, spending more on its military, and also on its infrastructure, wouldn't even have cost much, as it could easily be recouped with the increase in economic activity.


This is true, but criticism has also centred on her management of what Germany does have which, if media reports are to be believed, is not really fit for purpose. An interesting summary of the situation can be found here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ ... SKCN1PN28I

Moreover, my reading in the German press this morning has been very interesting. Merkel's Bavarian allies, the CSU, are unhappy that Weber has not been nominated. He is, of course, a member of the CSU and the party worked hard to promote both him and the Spitzenkandidat system ahead of the election. General Secretary Markus Blüme and Party Leader Markus Söder both railed against decision making behind closed doors in statements which can be found on the party's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/CSU/

And then there's this (sorry, link only in German): https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland ... assen.html
The summary is that Sigmar Gabriel, a prominent member of the SPD, who served as Vice-Chancellor and Foreign Minister during the previous grand coalition, sees Von der Leyen's nomination as a reason for the SPD to break up the current, notoriously unstable coalition, so this is causing real problems for Merkel at home.
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JJJ
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:46 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well LR did 8,5% in the election, their worst election result at these EU elections, and probably (someone check) in history at any election since the French revolution. The campaign was a national one like always, and until that changes, the Spitzencandidat system can't work.


I would be minded to agree with you that there are problems with the Spitzenkandidat system. However, since the election was conducted on that basis,


Except it wasn't. Other than in political circles, and always as a maybe/probably thing.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:19 pm

JJJ wrote:
Except it wasn't. Other than in political circles, and always as a maybe/probably thing.


Except it was. There was even a series of televised debates featuring the candidates. All a sham.
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JJJ
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:45 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Except it wasn't. Other than in political circles, and always as a maybe/probably thing.


Except it was. There was even a series of televised debates featuring the candidates. All a sham.


This is the only televised debate that was shown in Spain.

All local candidates and with their Spanish party featuring much more prominently than the European affiliation.

http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/videos/es ... ?media=tve
 
KLDC10
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:48 pm

JJJ wrote:
This is the only televised debate that was shown in Spain.

All local candidates and with their Spanish party featuring much more prominently than the European affiliation.

http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/videos/es ... ?media=tve


Not sure why all three weren't shown. The following article is about the last debate and, as it happens, predicts that the Spitzenkandidat system would be abandoned.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-ele ... -election/
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Olddog
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:07 pm

You just can't accept that elections were conducted according to national rules and the Spitzenkandidat system is a german thing only that they tried to push on the EU as it is to advantage the germans MEP. That system was rejected by all other countries.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
JJJ
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:58 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
This is the only televised debate that was shown in Spain.

All local candidates and with their Spanish party featuring much more prominently than the European affiliation.

http://www.rtve.es/m/alacarta/videos/es ... ?media=tve


Not sure why all three weren't shown.


Because as you've been told already the spitzenkandidat was a German thing they half-heartedly tried to push on other countries.

It didn't work, and no one took notice.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:31 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Thank god we are leaving.

To end up with commie Corbyn as the PM?


That thankfully will never happen.
 
Olddog
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Re: Germany's Ursula von der Leyen to Head EU Commission

Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:19 am

She will need to win the EP approval and it is less than obvious.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins

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