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DL717
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California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:59 am

So... lemmie get this right...There is a historic mural on a wall at George Washington High School in San Francisco. They’re going to spend $600k to cover up a mural? How about, I don’t know, maybe spend that $600k improving a real jacked up school in a poor community that actually needs paint on its walls.

This is just stupid.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... story.html

The LA Times mentions nearly all the students are people of color, but doesn’t mention the fact that 64% of the campus is Asian and they probably don’t give a flying flip. Hell even a bleeding heart liberal from Berkeley thinks this is ridiculous.
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Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:24 pm

The LA Times has clearly taken a position on this.

From the LA Times: “Most of the $600,000 earmarked for the project will go toward a required environmental review and to cover expected legal challenges.”

From the New York Times: “Painting [over the mural] would first require an environmental impact study that would cost about $500,000.”

That’s a lot of money that could help the homeless in San Francisco. But I suppose being politically correct is much more important.

I wonder how much the environmental impact study will cost once they start burning books? A million dollars?
 
NoTime
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:42 pm

Stupidity on so many levels...
 
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Aesma
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm

The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.
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DL717
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:57 pm

Magog wrote:
The LA Times has clearly taken a position on this.

From the LA Times: “Most of the $600,000 earmarked for the project will go toward a required environmental review and to cover expected legal challenges.”

From the New York Times: “Painting [over the mural] would first require an environmental impact study that would cost about $500,000.”

That’s a lot of money that could help the homeless in San Francisco. But I suppose being politically correct is much more important.

I wonder how much the environmental impact study will cost once they start burning books? A million dollars?


Homeless, anything. You cannot tell me there isn’t a school in San Francisco that is just a mess and could use that money. This mural is impacting the student so badly that it’s ranked in the top 5% of all High Schools in the US. :banghead:

Maybe give it to the 1/5th of their schools who are doing poorly:

https://www.sfgate.com/education/articl ... 611519.php
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Redd
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:14 pm

What kind of environmental study costs hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are they drilling for oil too?
 
Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:24 pm

Redd wrote:
What kind of environmental study costs hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are they drilling for oil too?

It’s corruption, pure and simple.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:40 pm

NoTime wrote:
Stupidity on so many levels...


This is the problem with SJWs...cover, take down, hide etc until what happens? Nobody learns the history anymore because all the lessons are gone. Completely counterproductive. Facts must trump emotion.
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mham001
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:30 pm

This school has been at the forefront of trying to erase Washington's legacy. There has been past attempts by politicians to rename it 'cuz Washington was white and bad.
 
anrec80
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:32 pm

Magog wrote:

From the New York Times: “Painting [over the mural] would first require an environmental impact study that would cost about $500,000.”

Hahaha. 500K for environmental study. Yeah, this is the kind of burden on society our “environment protectors” put. And that’s just for the study.
 
anrec80
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 pm

Redd wrote:
What kind of environmental study costs hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are they drilling for oil too?


Who else doubts what all these “environmental protection regulations”, “Paris agreements” and the likes are for? Effect on the actual environment is still questionable, but real money are now and here...
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:25 am

anrec80 wrote:
Redd wrote:
What kind of environmental study costs hundreds of thousands of dollars? Are they drilling for oil too?


Who else doubts what all these “environmental protection regulations”, “Paris agreements” and the likes are for? Effect on the actual environment is still questionable, but real money are now and here...


You are cherry-picking. Specialist attorneys and consultants overcharge for a lot of things, not only EAs and EIRs. I have seen bills for a ‘forensic study of workers comp claims’ that started at $500/hr. The expert spent about two weeks on the study and final bill was over $260K.
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vikkyvik
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
This is the problem with SJWs...cover, take down, hide etc until what happens? Nobody learns the history anymore because all the lessons are gone. Completely counterproductive.


I wonder if they realize that one day, some of the stuff that they painted / sculpted / whatever will be painted over / torn down / erased.

Times and attitudes change. Nothing wrong with that (it's generally good), but no need to pretend that previous attitudes didn't exist.
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Redd
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:19 am

anrec80 wrote:
Magog wrote:

From the New York Times: “Painting [over the mural] would first require an environmental impact study that would cost about $500,000.”

Hahaha. 500K for environmental study. Yeah, this is the kind of burden on society our “environment protectors” put. And that’s just for the study.



Well, there's also the question of why there is an environmental study needed (clearly it's just corruption) for painting a wall or removing a mural? Indoors!
 
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:31 am

If people hate the mural that much put a tarp over it so then at least it can be shown whenever. There, I saved them $600K. You're welcome.
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:36 am

Redd wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Magog wrote:

From the New York Times: “Painting [over the mural] would first require an environmental impact study that would cost about $500,000.”

Hahaha. 500K for environmental study. Yeah, this is the kind of burden on society our “environment protectors” put. And that’s just for the study.


Well, there's also the question of why there is an environmental study needed (clearly it's just corruption) for painting a wall or removing a mural? Indoors!


CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act passed in 1970, requires environmental assessments to be conducted for any renovation in public facilities.
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Redd
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:46 am

Good to know, but I wonder how they can justify the massive price tag? The average chemical test price is between $100 - $1000 USD. I don't think the due diligence would need to be very thorough as this doesn't involve a sale or any new structures being built.

This is daylight robbery corruption. The fact that more people or the media aren't seriously digging into this shows how compliant society has become when it comes to obvious corruption. Theft and corruption is just renamed ''an environmental study''.... hilarious
 
Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:42 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Redd wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Hahaha. 500K for environmental study. Yeah, this is the kind of burden on society our “environment protectors” put. And that’s just for the study.


Well, there's also the question of why there is an environmental study needed (clearly it's just corruption) for painting a wall or removing a mural? Indoors!


CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act passed in 1970, requires environmental assessments to be conducted for any renovation in public facilities.

They have a pretty broad definition of “renovation.”
 
Airstud
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:46 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Redd wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Hahaha. 500K for environmental study. Yeah, this is the kind of burden on society our “environment protectors” put. And that’s just for the study.


Well, there's also the question of why there is an environmental study needed (clearly it's just corruption) for painting a wall or removing a mural? Indoors!


CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act passed in 1970, requires environmental assessments to be conducted for any renovation in public facilities.


Is anyone going to assess the dangers posed to the schoolkids by being in an environment full of, and managed by, reverberating dumbasses?
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:33 pm

Airstud wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Redd wrote:

Well, there's also the question of why there is an environmental study needed (clearly it's just corruption) for painting a wall or removing a mural? Indoors!


CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act passed in 1970, requires environmental assessments to be conducted for any renovation in public facilities.


Is anyone going to assess the dangers posed to the schoolkids by being in an environment full of, and managed by, reverberating dumbasses?


CEQA only requires assessments of air, water, and soil quality and habitat impacts. Human factors like poor logic and possible graft are unfortunately not addressed. :idea:

But as I pointed out earlier, costs for expert analysis are exorbitant these days in many applications, and criticism should not be conveniently limited to just environmental studies.
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Redd
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:52 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

But as I pointed out earlier, costs for expert analysis are exorbitant these days in many applications, and criticism should not be conveniently limited to just environmental studies.


But we happen to be discussing a $500,000, more or less, environmental assessment. To repaint a wall, a fairly small one at that......
 
seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:36 pm

Everyone complaining about the cost should consider a couple of things:

What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years?

Also, consider the (non) outrage over Mitch McConnell's wife not divesting herself from her construction companies. Go read about that then come back.

Is it right and just for minorities to be reminded that whites are superior? I suppose it is. Look at all the Confederate flags waving proudly across this land. But, yeah, let's complain that we don't have enough slavery in this country. Is that what I am hearing?
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:51 pm

seb146 wrote:
Everyone complaining about the cost should consider a couple of things:

What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years?


Good point.

seb146 wrote:
Also, consider the (non) outrage over Mitch McConnell's wife not divesting herself from her construction companies. Go read about that then come back.


Even if one of Ms. McConnell's construction companies was contracted to to do the actual work of painting over the mural, what does that have to do with the decision to paint over the mural?

seb146 wrote:
Is it right and just for minorities to be reminded that whites are superior? I suppose it is. Look at all the Confederate flags waving proudly across this land. But, yeah, let's complain that we don't have enough slavery in this country. Is that what I am hearing?


I genuinely have no idea what you're hearing, but here's some background on that mural and the artist who painted it-

"Erasing History" The Victor Arnautoff Murals & SF George Washington High https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxHijlewzoQ
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PPVRA
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
Everyone complaining about the cost should consider a couple of things:

What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years


If you were talking about replacing the wall, because it contains or is built of solid asbestos, then you’d have a point.

No environmental review, largely a paperwork sort of thing with perhaps a test here or there for asbestos, should ever cost anywhere near that much.

Even an earthquake review thing wouldn’t cost that much. Perhaps to rebuild the wall entirely, but nobody’s even talking about rebuilding the wall.

Corruption sounds about right.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:05 pm

Honestly, as much as I'm not really enamored with American conservatives, they really do have a point here.

The PC-fication exhibited here has gone to ridiculous levels.
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Super80Fan
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:24 pm

This is completely ridiculous but sounds typical of San Francisco.
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seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:04 am

PPVRA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Everyone complaining about the cost should consider a couple of things:

What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years


If you were talking about replacing the wall, because it contains or is built of solid asbestos, then you’d have a point.

No environmental review, largely a paperwork sort of thing with perhaps a test here or there for asbestos, should ever cost anywhere near that much.

Even an earthquake review thing wouldn’t cost that much. Perhaps to rebuild the wall entirely, but nobody’s even talking about rebuilding the wall.

Corruption sounds about right.


The separate tests all combined are expensive. There are laws about doing things to older buildings. It is not simply a matter of painting over it. You don't simply pave over a freeway and call it good. There are a number of things that have to be considered. If they want this to be a rush job, contractors will charge a higher rate.

We can not simply ignore history. That one race believed (and some of that race still do) they are superior. This is what happened in history.
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seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:16 am

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Also, consider the (non) outrage over Mitch McConnell's wife not divesting herself from her construction companies. Go read about that then come back.


Even if one of Ms. McConnell's construction companies was contracted to to do the actual work of painting over the mural, what does that have to do with the decision to paint over the mural?


I brought it up because of the right wing "outrage" over corruption and giving contracts to close friends and family and so on. Both sides do it, as the right loves to say.
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Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:32 am

I’m sure that multiple things need to be considered. I’m also sure that considering those things doesn’t cost anywhere near $500,000. This is legalized corruption at its finest.
 
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:27 pm

Aesma wrote:
The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.


We're not allowed to have history which tells the truth anymore, it has to be sanitised least someone be offended by it.

Painting over it is bat sht crazy.
 
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:13 pm

Not even a Russian communist is good enough for the loony left?
 
seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.


We're not allowed to have history which tells the truth anymore, it has to be sanitised least someone be offended by it.

Painting over it is bat sht crazy.


Like the Africans happily singing in the fields picking cotton or the Chinese happily doing cooking and laundry and laying charges for the railroads or the Natives happy to give their land in exchange for alcohol and perpetual poverty? How is that version of history any better?
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Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.


We're not allowed to have history which tells the truth anymore, it has to be sanitised least someone be offended by it.

Painting over it is bat sht crazy.


Like the Africans happily singing in the fields picking cotton or the Chinese happily doing cooking and laundry and laying charges for the railroads or the Natives happy to give their land in exchange for alcohol and perpetual poverty? How is that version of history any better?

This mural isn’t even close to that. Did you read about what the artist was trying to convey?
 
vikkyvik
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm

seb146 wrote:
What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years?


Then they should do a structural analysis, not an environmental review.

Also, if they want the wall to survive, it doesn't matter a pair of dingo's kidneys whether it's repainted or not. So you're telling me that if they hadn't decided to repaint it, the wall would have magically been able to stand longer than 5 years (because no review would have been done)?

seb146 wrote:
Is it right and just for minorities to be reminded that whites are superior? I suppose it is. Look at all the Confederate flags waving proudly across this land. But, yeah, let's complain that we don't have enough slavery in this country. Is that what I am hearing?


That is most certainly not what you're hearing in this thread. What you personally are hearing, I couldn't say.

seb146 wrote:
You don't simply pave over a freeway and call it good.


Apples to oranges, Seb.
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seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:09 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What is under the mural as far as asbestos or lead or if the wall has been compromised and needs to be strengthened. Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years?


Then they should do a structural analysis, not an environmental review.

Also, if they want the wall to survive, it doesn't matter a pair of dingo's kidneys whether it's repainted or not. So you're telling me that if they hadn't decided to repaint it, the wall would have magically been able to stand longer than 5 years (because no review would have been done)?


I would look at city/county/state law when it comes to a project of this size in a public school. That could have something to do with it. Also, lead based paint and asbestos ARE environmental concerns. Breathing in toxins like those can cause cancer.

vikkyvik wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Is it right and just for minorities to be reminded that whites are superior? I suppose it is. Look at all the Confederate flags waving proudly across this land. But, yeah, let's complain that we don't have enough slavery in this country. Is that what I am hearing?


That is most certainly not what you're hearing in this thread. What you personally are hearing, I couldn't say.


What I am hearing is the whole country MUST decide what this one school in California does and they are not doing the right thing, according to those who live in the thousands of other school districts across the country.

Why are people in Michigan, Alabama, Maine, New York, etc. outraged over what one school district decides to do with their funds? I think it is immoral to let children go to school hungry and be taught lies. But if that is what these Republican states want to do, let them. And see how far that gets them in the real world.

Besides, the cost of painting over a racist mural in rural Alabama is way lower than painting over a racist mural in San Francisco.

I just had a brilliant idea: San Francisco should hire painters from Alabama and pay them at Alabama wages and Alabama benefits. Would that make the rest of the country happy? That painters from Alabama will be making $7.50 an hour AND have to pay their own health care and their own room and board and meals and transportation and pay out of their own pockets to be licenced to California?

vikkyvik wrote:
seb146 wrote:
You don't simply pave over a freeway and call it good.


Apples to oranges, Seb.


No, not really. Paint over wallpaper or a mural and see how that turns out. There is way more planning that goes into it than you think.
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vikkyvik
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
Also, lead based paint and asbestos ARE environmental concerns. Breathing in toxins like those can cause cancer.


Sorry, I was addressing the "Could it be they want the wall to survive the next big quake and last longer than five years?" part of your statement.

seb146 wrote:
What I am hearing is the whole country MUST decide what this one school in California does and they are not doing the right thing, according to those who live in the thousands of other school districts across the country.


That might be what you're hearing, but it's not what people in this thread are saying. We are saying it's ridiculous, and the cost is high. No one is saying that we should all get to decide what they do.

seb146 wrote:
There is way more planning that goes into it than you think.


Planning? Sure. 18-wheelers driving over it? No.
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Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm

seb146 wrote:

Why are people in Michigan, Alabama, Maine, New York, etc. outraged over what one school district decides to do with their funds?

Normally they aren’t. It’s a reflection of the sheer stupidity and corruption associated with this particular matter.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:04 pm

Magog wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Why are people in Michigan, Alabama, Maine, New York, etc. outraged over what one school district decides to do with their funds?

Normally they aren’t. It’s a reflection of the sheer stupidity and corruption associated with this particular matter.


Or they are envious of a district so wealthy (this high school is in the exclusive Seacliff / Outer Richmond neighborhood of SF) that they can afford to devote over 50% of the school’s capacity and special programs to disadvantaged kids. This is not a normal suburb we’re talking about - Seacliff:

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TSS
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
What I am hearing is the whole country MUST decide what this one school in California does and they are not doing the right thing, according to those who live in the thousands of other school districts across the country.


When what that one school is doing makes national news and many people consider it to be ridiculous, it will be discussed. That's mainly what internet forums are for... to discuss stuff.

seb146 wrote:
Why are people in Michigan, Alabama, Maine, New York, etc. outraged over what one school district decides to do with their funds?


Dude, seriously? As often as you get outraged about things that happen in states nowhere near yours that do not affect you personally in any way, you're going to ask that question? Pot, kettle, etc.

seb146 wrote:
I think it is immoral to let children go to school hungry and be taught lies.


I'm not sure how going to school hungry plays into all this except that the money being used to paint over the mural could be better spent in school child nutrition programs, but I agree that it is wrong to teach children lies, and that's where most of the outrage over the removal of this mural comes from- The mural DOES NOT promote lies, it is painfully honest about US and California history in the most graphic manner possible, yet the local school board wants to literally as well as figuratively whitewash over the less savory facts of how the US and California came to be.

seb146 wrote:
But if that is what these Republican states want to do, let them. And see how far that gets them in the real world.


If you mean teach kids the actual history of the US, both good and bad points thereof, rather than a warm, fluffy, "sanitized for your protection" version that skips right over any unpleasantness then I'm all for it. I'm sure knowing that: A. Nobody is perfect, B. Sometimes good people do bad things, C. If you want an omelette then you're going to have to break some eggs, and D. If you like sausage then you probably shouldn't watch it being made, will serve today's kids far better when they are adults in the real world than would the delusion that all good people are 100% good and that all bad people are 100% bad and that there is zero middle ground between those two poles.

seb146 wrote:
Besides, the cost of painting over a racist mural in rural Alabama is way lower than painting over a racist mural in San Francisco.

I just had a brilliant idea: San Francisco should hire painters from Alabama and pay them at Alabama wages and Alabama benefits. Would that make the rest of the country happy? That painters from Alabama will be making $7.50 an hour AND have to pay their own health care and their own room and board and meals and transportation and pay out of their own pockets to be licenced to California?


Why is someone in Oregon trying to outsource work in California to painters from a Republican state like Alabama? If the media get wind of this, there'll be protests like you've never seen before! :hissyfit:
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seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:53 pm

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
What I am hearing is the whole country MUST decide what this one school in California does and they are not doing the right thing, according to those who live in the thousands of other school districts across the country.


When what that one school is doing makes national news and many people consider it to be ridiculous, it will be discussed. That's mainly what internet forums are for... to discuss stuff.

seb146 wrote:
Why are people in Michigan, Alabama, Maine, New York, etc. outraged over what one school district decides to do with their funds?


Dude, seriously? As often as you get outraged about things that happen in states nowhere near yours that do not affect you personally in any way, you're going to ask that question? Pot, kettle, etc.

seb146 wrote:
I think it is immoral to let children go to school hungry and be taught lies.


I'm not sure how going to school hungry plays into all this except that the money being used to paint over the mural could be better spent in school child nutrition programs, but I agree that it is wrong to teach children lies, and that's where most of the outrage over the removal of this mural comes from- The mural DOES NOT promote lies, it is painfully honest about US and California history in the most graphic manner possible, yet the local school board wants to literally as well as figuratively whitewash over the less savory facts of how the US and California came to be.

seb146 wrote:
But if that is what these Republican states want to do, let them. And see how far that gets them in the real world.


If you mean teach kids the actual history of the US, both good and bad points thereof, rather than a warm, fluffy, "sanitized for your protection" version that skips right over any unpleasantness then I'm all for it. I'm sure knowing that: A. Nobody is perfect, B. Sometimes good people do bad things, C. If you want an omelette then you're going to have to break some eggs, and D. If you like sausage then you probably shouldn't watch it being made, will serve today's kids far better when they are adults in the real world than would the delusion that all good people are 100% good and that all bad people are 100% bad and that there is zero middle ground between those two poles.

seb146 wrote:
Besides, the cost of painting over a racist mural in rural Alabama is way lower than painting over a racist mural in San Francisco.

I just had a brilliant idea: San Francisco should hire painters from Alabama and pay them at Alabama wages and Alabama benefits. Would that make the rest of the country happy? That painters from Alabama will be making $7.50 an hour AND have to pay their own health care and their own room and board and meals and transportation and pay out of their own pockets to be licenced to California?


Why is someone in Oregon trying to outsource work in California to painters from a Republican state like Alabama? If the media get wind of this, there'll be protests like you've never seen before! :hissyfit:


Slavery was no big deal, what California pays for things is way too much to people who live in Republican states. Those are quick points I want to make because this whole argument is stupid. This thread never should have been started because someone on the other side of the country is outraged. I lived in STS about 50 miles north and my in-laws live there. I have a passive interest. I don't have any problem at all for this school to pay this.

My biggest point is that many people who are outraged don't even live there, do not have the desire to visit there, and honestly believe from what they have been told that California is un-American.
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Dieuwer
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:47 am

No Mural Gate in SF. I enjoyed my walking tour through The Mission last Friday.
 
TSS
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:25 am

seb146 wrote:
Slavery was no big deal,


I must say, that's a bold statement to make and most unexpected coming from you.

seb146 wrote:
what California pays for things is way too much to people who live in Republican states.


Agreed.

seb146 wrote:
Those are quick points I want to make because this whole argument is stupid. This thread never should have been started because someone on the other side of the country is outraged. I lived in STS about 50 miles north and my in-laws live there. I have a passive interest. I don't have any problem at all for this school to pay this.


Great. That is your opinion and you're entitled to it just the same as other people, both in California and in other parts of the world, are entitled to their opinion on this issue. The thing is this issue has gained national attention because it plays into the perception that many people on the West Coast desire to put feelings before facts and are willing to engage in unabashed censorship to do so.

seb146 wrote:
My biggest point is that many people who are outraged don't even live there, do not have the desire to visit there, and honestly believe from what they have been told that California is un-American.


Welcome to my world, buddy. How many times have there been comments or even entire threads on here critical of the South in general or Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, or Florida in particular filled with outrage from people who don't even live there, have never visited there, do not have the desire to visit there, and honestly believe from what they have been told that the South is un-American? Do I attempt to argue with those posters knowing full well that nothing I type could ever change their ironclad opinions in the slightest? Do I get all butt-hurt over such commentary and try to get those comments and/or threads deleted or locked? Nope, mostly I just laugh at how many of and to what extent the comments are grossly exaggerated, hopelessly outdated, or just plain old incorrect and I get on with the rest of my day.
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seb146
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:54 am

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Slavery was no big deal,


I must say, that's a bold statement to make and most unexpected coming from you.


No. Just pointing out what the "all lives matter" crowd is thinking.

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
what California pays for things is way too much to people who live in Republican states.


Agreed.


No. California is a Republican dream. Private industry charges whatever they feel like for everything and cries that no one can afford to live there so Republicans cry that "poor" people are given "free" things to live there. Like low cost health care and a higher minimum wage and rent control. Making California a wasteland. Because the voters want things like a place to live and a living wage and affordable health care.

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Those are quick points I want to make because this whole argument is stupid. This thread never should have been started because someone on the other side of the country is outraged. I lived in STS about 50 miles north and my in-laws live there. I have a passive interest. I don't have any problem at all for this school to pay this.


Great. That is your opinion and you're entitled to it just the same as other people, both in California and in other parts of the world, are entitled to their opinion on this issue. The thing is this issue has gained national attention because it plays into the perception that many people on the West Coast desire to put feelings before facts and are willing to engage in unabashed censorship to do so.


How is it censorship saying that one school district doing something is a national disgrace? It is Republicans and right wingers who are outraged. No one else really cares.
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Magog
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:05 am

Simply not true. The outrage is non-partisan.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/georg ... co-1594663

This makes sense given the sheer absurdity of the school board’s decision.

As for California being a “Republican dream,” you definitely hold a minority view.
 
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DL717
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:16 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Not even a Russian communist is good enough for the loony left?


If it was Che, it would stay. You could bank on that. Hell, they’d probably spend $600k making it look all pretty again.
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mham001
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Or they are envious of a district so wealthy (this high school is in the exclusive Seacliff / Outer Richmond neighborhood of SF) that they can afford to devote over 50% of the school’s capacity and special programs to disadvantaged kids. This is not a normal suburb we’re talking about - Seacliff:

Image


it is not clear what pedestal you are attempting to lift SF or its (single) school district upon but whatever it is you are trying to convey should mention that SF's schools are not district-bound and entrance is by city-wide lottery.
 
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ER757
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:43 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.


We're not allowed to have history which tells the truth anymore, it has to be sanitised least someone be offended by it.

Painting over it is bat sht crazy.

This!.......Everyone just needs to get over the fact that they may have to occasionally deal with something that runs contrary to their sensitivities.
 
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DL717
Topic Author
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Re: California has officially lost it...Muralgate

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:21 pm

ER757 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The mural doesn't appear to be a glorification, but on the contrary showing the honest truth, so I see no reason to cover it.

Then the cost, that's totally crazy.


We're not allowed to have history which tells the truth anymore, it has to be sanitised least someone be offended by it.

Painting over it is bat sht crazy.

This!.......Everyone just needs to get over the fact that they may have to occasionally deal with something that runs contrary to their sensitivities.


There was a talking head on the news last night arguing it’s offensive because the majority of students are black. Ive read several story’s where they have have reported the majority of students are people of color. They of course ignore the fact that the majority (68%) are actually Asian. 4% of the student populous is black, where the talking head was suggesting it was a majority black school. I guess the talking head didn’t do his homework, nor did the clown interviewing him.
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