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einsteinboricua
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:10 pm

And here we go again...another debt ceiling crisis unfolding.

US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin warns that the US will hit the debt ceiling sooner than expected. He's urging Congress to raise the ceiling since Treasury is already undergoing the "extraordinary measures" to meet obligations.

Two things to note here:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?
2. Where is the Tea Party these days? You know...the ones who held the government hostage many times over debt ceiling increments? Our CiC remembers those days. Many a battle was waged for that (2011 and 2013).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
dmg626
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:12 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
And here we go again...another debt ceiling crisis unfolding.

US Treasury Secretary Mnuchin warns that the US will hit the debt ceiling sooner than expected. He's urging Congress to raise the ceiling since Treasury is already undergoing the "extraordinary measures" to meet obligations.

Two things to note here:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?
2. Where is the Tea Party these days? You know...the ones who held the government hostage many times over debt ceiling increments? Our CiC remembers those days. Many a battle was waged for that (2011 and 2013).





Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:32 pm

So are we going to see Trump demanding for something unrelated here?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:18 pm

dmg626 wrote:
Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Don't have to tell me twice. I actually support sequestration across the board to cut spending and repealing the tax cuts to increase revenue.

The conservative logic in the country is: "I am not making ends meet with my current income and spending so I will ask for a pay cut so I can achieve a balanced budget".
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Ken777
Posts: 9863
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:20 pm

Here we go again. Maybe this is simply the result of taxing cuts to wealthy companies and individuals while those at the bottom of the social pyramid suffer more. unjust like the Cheney/Bush tax cuts the economy starts taking a dive and Trump will blame it on the Democrat's.

Running out of money? Since the Trump Tax Cuts clearly have not worked maybe it is time to reverse them out. Put] cash in the hands that will actually spend that money, growing the economy and tax revenues. Also cut out Trump's golfing trip that can easily be exceed a million dollars for Air Force One alone. That is a small help, but better than wasting the money on the trips.

Better yet, maybe we need to understand that trump can easily dribble us into another great Recession simply because he had no clue on hoe to avoid it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:00 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?


This is the biggest lie the WH continues to push ad nauseum - best economy ever blah blah blah. They pledged cuts would pay for themselves by the early 2020s and that we’d see “5 or even 6% growth” - the projection by 45 himself. Tariffs don’t stay in Treasury and the DJIA is the only thing tangibly strong in this economy - real wages are not growing, cost of living is increasing, and none of these things come anywhere near the conditions needed for a reversal of deficit indices.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Tariffs don’t stay in Treasury

Because tariffs don't even make it to the Treasury.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?


This is the biggest lie the WH continues to push ad nauseum - best economy ever blah blah blah. They pledged cuts would pay for themselves by the early 2020s and that we’d see “5 or even 6% growth” - the projection by 45 himself. Tariffs don’t stay in Treasury and the DJIA is the only thing tangibly strong in this economy - real wages are not growing, cost of living is increasing, and none of these things come anywhere near the conditions needed for a reversal of deficit indices.


Hard for Joe Voter to know who to believe - 45 says they go to Treasury, SecTreas says they are paid on both ends, Kudlow admits US consumers bear most of the brunt, Wall Street analysts say US companies and consumers bear ALL of the cost. Oh the humanity!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10644
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?


This is the biggest lie the WH continues to push ad nauseum - best economy ever blah blah blah. They pledged cuts would pay for themselves by the early 2020s and that we’d see “5 or even 6% growth” -


given the 5-6% of GDP in new debt per year 5-6% GDP growth would actually be ZERO% real growth.....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:25 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
1. Weren't we told thatthe Treasury coffers were being filled by tariffs? And that tax cuts would pay for themselves by increasing revenue?


This is the biggest lie the WH continues to push ad nauseum - best economy ever blah blah blah. They pledged cuts would pay for themselves by the early 2020s and that we’d see “5 or even 6% growth” -


given the 5-6% of GDP in new debt per year 5-6% GDP growth would actually be ZERO% real growth.....

best regards
Thomas


Shhhh everyone thinks because the Dow is strong their retirement money is safe :tapedshut:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:49 pm

Where is all that Growth Trump, Ryan, and McConnell promised at ?
Looks to me to be more lies from the Right.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:07 pm

Just do away with the farce called "Debt Ceiling". I understand this would mean the kindergartners in the House won't have no longer a stick to hit eachother with, but it would be for the better.
AFAIK, not one sane and progressive European country has a "debt ceiling".
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:44 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
AFAIK, not one sane and progressive European country has a "debt ceiling".

But we are not progressive by any means. The P word is the new C word and S word. (progressive = socialism AND communism).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:14 pm

As long as the rest of the world treats the US dollar like the Gold standard, and our government spends more than it receives, we might as well remove the debt ceiling.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:15 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
AFAIK, not one sane and progressive European country has a "debt ceiling".

Are there debt/budget rules written into law, into their constitutions?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
tommy1808
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Debt ceiling: lather, rinse, repeat

Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:01 am

Tugger wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
AFAIK, not one sane and progressive European country has a "debt ceiling".

Are there debt/budget rules written into law, into their constitutions?

Tugg


German constitution wrote:
Article 109
[Budget management in the Federation and the Länder]

(1) The Federation and the Länder shall be autonomous and independent of one another in the management of their respective budgets.

(2) The Federation and the Länder shall perform jointly the obligations of the Federal Republic of Germany resulting from legal acts of the European Community for the maintenance of budgetary discipline pursuant to Article 104 of the Treaty Establishing the European Community and shall, within this framework, give due regard to the requirements of overall economic equilibrium.

(3) The budgets of the Federation and the Länder shall in principle be balanced without revenue from credits. The Federation and Länder may introduce rules intended to take into account, symmetrically in times of upswing and downswing, the effects of market developments that deviate from normal conditions, as well as exceptions for natural disasters or unusual emergency situations beyond governmental control and substantially harmful to the state’s financial capacity. For such exceptional regimes, a corresponding amortisation plan must be adopted. Details for the budget of the Federation shall be governed by Article 115 with the proviso that the first sentence shall be deemed to be satisfied if revenue from credits does not exceed 0.35 percent in relation to the nominal gross domestic product. The Länder themselves shall regulate details for the budgets within the framework of their constitutional powers, the proviso being that the first sentence shall only be deemed to be satisfied if no revenue from credits is admitted.

(4) A federal law requiring the consent of the Bundesrat may establish principles applicable to both the Federation and the Länder governing budgetary law, the responsiveness of budgetary management to economic trends, and long-term financial planning.

(5) Sanctions imposed by the European Community on the basis of the provisions of Article 104 of the Treaty Establishing the European Community in the interest of maintaining budgetary discipline, shall be borne by the Federation and the Länder at a ratio of 65 to 35 percent. In solidarity, the Länder as a whole shall bear 35 percent of the charges incumbent on the Länder according to the number of their inhabitants; 65 percent of the charges incumbent on the Länder shall be borne by the Länder according to their degree of causation. Details shall be regulated by a federal law which shall require the consent of the Bundesrat.

table of contents

Article 109a
[Budgetary emergencies]

To avoid a budgetary emergency, a federal law requiring the consent of the Bundesrat shall provide for:

1. the continuing supervision of budgetary management of the Federation and the Länder by a joint body (Stability Council),

2. the conditions and procedures for ascertaining the threat of a budgetary emergency,

3. the principles for the establishment and administration of programs for taking care of budgetary eme ....


https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0644

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......

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