CityRail
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:26 am

Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:52 am

Since mid-June, protests in Hong Kong has become more and more violent, and now protests are breaking out across all suburbs in Hong Kong every day on every weekend.

Unfortunately, for both protesters and police have went out of control during these protests and the government has been incompetent to resolve any of these crisis.

That means protests can happen anywhere, anytime and can become very violent, including severely injuring spectators or residents living in hotels in both the CBD and residential suburbs.

In light of the current situation, I appeal to all travellers do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends, so that you will not get affected by tear gas, pepper spray, bricks and corrosive acid etc from both protesters and police.

I do also hope that this message can be sent to all foreign ministries of governments overseas that they will advice citizens to NOT travel to Hong Kong, nor transit via Hong Kong International Airport, for your own safety.

We hope that Donald Trump and Boris Johnson will be able to resolve this political crisis by forcing Peking to do something to satisfy the HK protesters' demands.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:33 pm

You should send this to mainland PRC tourism board, b/c those behated "parallel traders" along with mainland PRC tourists are still coming in drove (They just broke the record in June IIRC).

And seriously, it's not that hard to avoid the protest. It's not like they can really protests in all 18 districts in HK anyway. And transiting in HKIA? It'll be nearly impossible to flood the airport without HKPD not noticing. Hack, last time they planned to protest near the HSR station and the police presence is more than necessary (as usual) anyway.

I won't start on the HK gov't - they've always been totally inept and the protests are literally the timebomb (finally) going off anyway. Meanwhile, the gov't official just hide behind the police, and as usual, hoping that the problem will just go away eventually.

P.S. Wishing IQ45 to do anything (like some of those protesters in HK does) is seriously wishful thinking. He'll forget about the protest and onto his next twitter "war" in 5 mins anyway. Ultimately, it's "HK People saving HK".
 
910A
Posts: 1758
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:25 pm

CityRail wrote:

We hope that Donald Trump and Boris Johnson will be able to resolve this political crisis by forcing Peking to do something to satisfy the HK protesters' demands.


Are you serious?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:30 pm

910A wrote:
CityRail wrote:

We hope that Donald Trump and Boris Johnson will be able to resolve this political crisis by forcing Peking to do something to satisfy the HK protesters' demands.


Are you serious?


To be really fair to the OP, you have some protesters in HK thinking that US and UK (or other country) should (and would) interfere more than some empty talks. And if anything, the joke is that Trump is probably more popular in HK than he is in US :).

Just on another side note - if you consider clashes between protesters and police "violent", I really don't know what to say. If this is US (or France), you really think those shops in, let say, New Town Plaza in Shatin 2 days ago won't be looted/burn down by now? Might as well destroy a few cars, destroy subway train, etc. also. No, I saw none of that in Hong Kong. The only thing I see is a tired police force taking their frustration out on the protesters.

Ok, they trashed LegCo, but that's it. You don't have protesters beating up random people for the sake of it (Hack, they absolutely hate those mainlanders, and you've yet to see any of those mainland tourists being targeted), you don't have things like guns/knives (VERY common in US). Also, you really think those protesters should just stand there and let themselves being beat up by the police?

At the end of the day, HKPD is a microcosm of Hong Kong gov't - totally inept in solving anything, and when they wants things done, they just force their way through and shove things down the throat of people. Ok, that or look north and wait for direction from the master (aka CCP).
 
alfa164
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:04 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
910A wrote:
CityRail wrote:

We hope that Donald Trump and Boris Johnson will be able to resolve this political crisis by forcing Peking to do something to satisfy the HK protesters' demands.


Are you serious?


To be really fair to the OP, you have some protesters in HK thinking that US and UK (or other country) should (and would) interfere more than some empty talks. And if anything, the joke is that Trump is probably more popular in HK than he is in US :).


I am not sure it was meant to disparage the OP; it was more an observation that Trump would have no interest in whatever happens to Hong Kong or its citizens... unless he owned a hotel or a golf course there...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:21 pm

alfa164 wrote:
I am not sure it was meant to disparage the OP; it was more an observation that Trump would have no interest in whatever happens to Hong Kong or its citizens... unless he owned a hotel or a golf course there...


:rotfl: :rotfl:

More seriously, Trump is probably not even smart enough to realized he can use Hong Kong as a "pawn" in that chess match against China. If anything, recently a media tycoon in HK (Jimmy Lai, owner of Apple Daily, which is completely anti-CCP and in general, anti-HK gov't) had been meeting with various US officials. The one he had yet to met with? Yep, Trump himself.

Pompeo? Yes.
Bolton? Yes.
Pence? Yes.
Trump? Too busy spending time in that "Twitter War" against the 4 congresswomen.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-le ... y-lai-says
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10644
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:06 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
I am not sure it was meant to disparage the OP; it was more an observation that Trump would have no interest in whatever happens to Hong Kong or its citizens... unless he owned a hotel or a golf course there...


:rotfl: :rotfl:

More seriously, Trump is probably not even smart enough to realized he can use Hong Kong as a "pawn" in that chess match against China.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Hongkong" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Tibet" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on with the Uyghurs" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for threatening our ally Taiwan with war" -> hardly anyone could argue with it

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Cerecl
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:17 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Hongkong" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Tibet" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on with the Uyghurs" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for threatening our ally Taiwan with war" -> hardly anyone could argue with it

best regards
Thomas

You are letting your biased view on PRC clouding your judgement. The recent unrest was ignited by the local government pushing an unpopular law. People who didn't like it protested, a small portion became violent and stormed the LegCo building. An even smaller number were arrested. Regardless of if the HK government pushed this law at the direction of PRC central government (there are some rumours that this didn't come from Beijing although we will probably never know for sure), if this deserves sanction you might as well sanction every second country in this world. I personally think this law is a fuse and the unrest is reflective of HK people's anxiety about their future, their stagnant economy and widening socioeconomic division. The mainland becomes an easy target even though how much of this is PRC and its government's fault is debatable.

I know you love Taiwan, I do too, especially its people, but you inflate its importance by labelling it an "ally". In reality it is a pawn, although an important pawn, in the Sino-US contest/competition that will probably dominate the best part of this century. It is a convenient and obedient buyer of outdated weapons at inflated price, and a dart to throw at PRC from time to time. The fact that even a cabinet dominated by hawks, in the context of an unprecedented trade war between China and US, did not advance US-Taiwan relationship in any significant way should tell you plenty about how US regard Taiwan. In any event, I am not sure there is any benefit to be ally to the current US regime, who seems to treat enemies nicer than allies.

TIbet and Xingjiang are more complex and controversial, and I know we are not going to agree so I won't bother.

Oh by the way, I disagree with the OP. I wouldn't have any hesitance to go to HK tomorrow if I need to. It is quite an experience if you are going there for the first time and the people there are open-minded and friendly once you get to know them. Genuine tourists or business people (not milk-powder hoarder/trader) are not the target of the protest and shouldn't encounter too much disturbance outside political centres.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Cerecl wrote:
Oh by the way, I disagree with the OP. I wouldn't have any hesitance to go to HK tomorrow if I need to. It is quite an experience if you are going there for the first time and the people there are open-minded and friendly once you get to know them. Genuine tourists or business people (not milk-powder hoarder/trader) are not the target of the protest and shouldn't encounter too much disturbance outside political centres.


And with all these, how many "parallel traders" got beat up last week in Sheung Shui during the protest? Zero. The protester did trash one of those "pharmacies" (I have to use quote around that b/c they're NOT true pharmacies), but otherwise, it's more protesters and police pushing each other, which, well, happen every single protest all around the world anyway.

Otherwise, yes, I don't see what's wrong with visiting HK even nowaday. Yes, you have to pay attention to where protests are, but that's no different than visiting some cities in US and avoiding some of the antifa vs. "White Supremist" protests which also pop up from time to time anyway.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10644
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:19 pm

Cerecl wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Hongkong" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Tibet" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on with the Uyghurs" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for threatening our ally Taiwan with war" -> hardly anyone could argue with it

best regards
Thomas

You are letting your biased view on PRC clouding your judgement.


Since the post only contains what Trump could have used as an argument, and that pushback against it would be unlikely if he had, but no opinion of my own, there obviously isn't any bias in that post.

if this deserves sanction you might as well sanction every second country in this world.


Countries without a legit government make up far less than 50% or the worlds nations you are obviously wrong with that.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Cerecl
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:27 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Since the post only contains what Trump could have used as an argument, and that pushback against it would be unlikely if he had, but no opinion of my own, there obviously isn't any bias in that post.


Let's not kid ourselves, as if Trump cares enough or is smart (or dumb?) enough to sanction China based on these clumsy arguments. These are your thoughts projected onto a straw man.

Countries without a legit government make up far less than 50% or the worlds nations you are obviously wrong with that.

Yeah right political system of PRC was exactly what was being discussed :roll: .
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
CityRail
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:26 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:30 pm

Political riots is NOW happening o. Hk Island.
Deadly force is being deployed.
Triad party riots is NOW happening in North Western Suburbs of Yuen Long.
Civilians are being injured/beaten at train stations.
Do NOT travel to Hong Kong.
Do NOT wear black or white T-Shirts in Hong Kong.

我從使用 Tapatalk 的 SM-A7050 發送
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:52 pm

CityRail wrote:
Political riots is NOW happening o. Hk Island.
Deadly force is being deployed.
Triad party riots is NOW happening in North Western Suburbs of Yuen Long.
Civilians are being injured/beaten at train stations.
Do NOT travel to Hong Kong.
Do NOT wear black or white T-Shirts in Hong Kong.

我從使用 Tapatalk 的 SM-A7050 發送


What "riots" in HK Island?

The violence in Yuen Long is definitely insane, though. Definitely not something I thought I would expect to see in modern Hong Kong. HK of 50s/60s? Yes. HK nowaday? No.

But we all know the "leader" of those triad is a certain LegCo member (that netizens were able to capture photo of) that have advocate violence for awhile. HKPD only appearing after the fact certainly did nothing but fan further fire and mistrust that has been going on for awhile.

Of course, meanwhile, the gov't officials just stay in their cozy fortress and let the protesters and pro-gov't people (including police) fight each other out. Surprises? Not at all. With the Referee, Assistance Referee, Officials all on the same side, it's not like they have to do anything anyway (Shaolin Soccer reference if you don't know where that come from).

Ultimately, this stuff is reminding me of the "fascist" vs. "antifa" BS that has been going on in US for awhile.

P.S. Personally I don't understand what's the point of those protesters still remaining in Sheung Wan/Central area anyway - they are in a defenseless position, is not going to win anything by staying, and it's not like the gov't will all of a sudden actually do something - I mean, protests had been going on for 6 weeks now, and what have the gov't done? Nada.

P.S. Predicting the protest next week will be in Yuen Long.
 
seat64k
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:14 pm

Cool your jets, will ya?

CityRail wrote:
Political riots is NOW happening o. Hk Island.
Deadly force is being deployed.
Triad party riots is NOW happening in North Western Suburbs of Yuen Long.
Civilians are being injured/beaten at train stations.


Stay away from the sharp end of the protest - that's more than enough to stay out of trouble.

CityRail wrote:
Do NOT travel to Hong Kong.


Stop it already.

CityRail wrote:
Do NOT wear black or white T-Shirts in Hong Kong.


I'm one of those people that wear the same thing every day. Chinos and a plain black shirt. I'll report back if the triads take issue with me.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:22 pm

seat64k wrote:
I'm one of those people that wear the same thing every day. Chinos and a plain black shirt. I'll report back if the triads take issue with me.


From the video I saw, it's not like those triads really care about whether one is wearing black shirts anyway - they are just swinging their wooden stick at everybody like a madman anyway.

But I repeat myself again - it's seriously not too different than something like "fascist" vs. "antifa" BS in US anyway (Where you got both side claiming the other is violent...and a gov't that just stay silence just b/c those people are the "frontline" idiot that did what the gov't wants to do) - easily avoidable.
 
c933103
Posts: 3792
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:31 pm

I am not going to recommend anyone to visit a place where the government would hire mobs to beat ordinary persons on the street.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:23 pm

c933103 wrote:
I am not going to recommend anyone to visit a place where the government would hire mobs to beat ordinary persons on the street.


Come on now, the mobs just made that 10 Million HKD donation to HKPD, it's just a "gift" back from HKPD of just standing there and do nothing.

At the end of the day, all these fights and the gov't officials continues to get their 200+k HKD (or in Carrie Lam's case, 400+k HKD) salary just by sitting in their air conditioned office, behind the wall and police protection. Yep, can't get better than that.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:47 am

There are rumors that UA will stop putting crew overnight at HK for now, and depending on how the situation goes, may suspend HKG for a few days if things go far south.

Again, only rumor for now, with no confirmation from any official source.

(So far I can find only a Chinese source...behind paywall also)
http://s.nextmedia.com/realtime/a.php?i ... a=59850244

Otherwise, it’s true White (Shirt) Terror right now in HK. Of course, being the typical inept HK gov’t, the emblem that got defaced above the PRC liaison office is more important than a bunch of ordinary citizens getting caught in the crossfire (bc we all know that it is NOT just people wearing black shirts getting beat).
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:39 pm

I visit HK reasonably regularly and enjoy it. You've just got to be wise and know what you're getting into.

tommy1808 wrote:

"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Hongkong" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on in Tibet" -> hardly anyone could argue with it
"We put an sanctions on China for what is going on with the Uyghurs" -> hardly anyone could argue with it

Actually, if Trump's base knew what China was doing to the Uyghurs, they'd probably be very impressed and supportive.

zakuivcustom wrote:
The violence in Yuen Long is definitely insane, though. Definitely not something I thought I would expect to see in modern Hong Kong. HK of 50s/60s? Yes. HK nowaday? No.

Let's be honest though - it's going to become more common in the future one way or another. As 2047 comes closer, Beijing will feel an increasing need to exert control and crush dissent. They'll be happy to use force if they need to.


c933103 wrote:
I am not going to recommend anyone to visit a place where the government would hire mobs to beat ordinary persons on the street.


Fair enough, but they're probably not going to do it to folks who look like Westerners. Unless a Westerner should try to film them or unmask them....
First to fly the 787-9
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:50 pm

you just had to go and drag trump into it, didn't you
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:53 pm

zkojq wrote:
Actually, if Trump's base knew what China was doing to the Uyghurs, they'd probably be very impressed and supportive.


Agree. Except once IQ45's base realized that PRC gov't is doing exactly the same thing to Christians, they start crying about human rights. :scratchchin:

zkojq wrote:
Let's be honest though - it's going to become more common in the future one way or another. As 2047 comes closer, Beijing will feel an increasing need to exert control and crush dissent. They'll be happy to use force if they need to.


It's one thing to see police exerting force against protesters (B/c, as much as the protesters in HK complain about it, it's also true that you'll see the same thing in "western", "civilized" country like US or UK or France. Plus the leader of that anti-riot squad in HK is a Briton), it's another to see police standing there to let the triads literally take control of the street and beat everyone up as they wish.

As one of the reporters say way back in the 6/12 protest (That seems like eon ago) - "This is Hong Kong, not China, at least not yet".

zkojq wrote:
Fair enough, but they're probably not going to do it to folks who look like Westerners. Unless a Westerner should try to film them or unmask them....


You think so? Those mobs will just call the Westerners "Foreign influence". Of course, not like westerners (especially tourists) normally would head into Yuen Long (or Tin Shui Wai/Tuen Mun, etc.) anyway unless they live there (and thus, would already know the area well enough to stay away from trouble)...Ok, or if they want to go really local and eat "B-Jai Herbal Jelly" :scratchchin: :scratchchin:

Of course, since I'm actually from HK, and with me looking 100% like your typical young protesters, I would probably got my a** whooped by those triads if I was there. (But then, even though I'm from HK I've been to Yuen Long for a grand total of 3 times, all to visited family friends/distinct relatives).
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:12 pm

Never understood why the British did not push for Hong Kong independence. As Singapore has shown, a city state can be very viable.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:51 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.scmp.c ... xtradition

To nobody’s surprise, IQ45 probably doesn’t even have a f**king clue what’s going on anyway.

But hey, not like I have expectations, unlike some of those idiotic protesters in HK who really think US under IQ45 is going to do anything.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1779
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:13 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Never understood why the British did not push for Hong Kong independence. As Singapore has shown, a city state can be very viable.


As a matter of fact, they did almost the exact same thing to Singapore when Malaysia was founded - where Singapore was to be a state in the federation. It was the Malaysian leaders that gave Singapore its independence.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:39 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Never understood why the British did not push for Hong Kong independence. As Singapore has shown, a city state can be very viable.


As a matter of fact, they did almost the exact same thing to Singapore when Malaysia was founded - where Singapore was to be a state in the federation. It was the Malaysian leaders that gave Singapore its independence.


Malaysia did not "gave" Singapore independence, Singapore was literally kicked out of the federation, and has no choice but to be an independent state.

Little to they know that Singapore would develop into the economic force that it is today, while Malaysia is...well, Malaysia with their useless, corrupt gov't.

As for why UK did not push for HK independence - they never has the intention to. Their intention was to keep HK as a colony, but the negotiation went nowhere, and UK pretty much went sissy and didn't want to risk a war with China (And you're talking about a poor China back in 1984). Hack, HK didn't even have democratic election until 1992, and that's only part of the LegCo (A system that remained today, and is one of the reason why HK is a mess right now - when people vote 50-50 but pro-gov't force has a near supermajority b/c they get to control all the "Constituency" seats representing special interest for Big Business, Real Estate Firm, basically anything but the ordinary citizens...think of what'll happen to US Congress if lobbyists get to directly vote on legislation).

At the end of the day, what can one expect from UK anyway? They're the same country that draw random lines in Middle East when they carved up Ottoman Empire, resulting in decades of ongoing conflicts in that region (Ask the Kurds...or the Armenians)
 
User avatar
SQ32
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:56 pm

When China opens up, Hong Kong loss her status as the middleman. The inevitable demise of Hong Kong is all but certain. Hong Kong people antagonism towards China is due to the failure of adjusting to the fact of their relative demise.

Singapore is more diversified. She has one of world biggest petrochemical industry. She has a sizable IC, biomedical, defence industries and R&D. She provide service to the ASEAN as well as the world. Since most Hong Kong prosperity has longed been due to serving as proxy to China, she cannot decouple herself without taking a big blowback.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1779
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:21 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Malaysia did not "gave" Singapore independence, Singapore was literally kicked out of the federation, and has no choice but to be an independent state.

Little to they know that Singapore would develop into the economic force that it is today, while Malaysia is...well, Malaysia with their useless, corrupt gov't.


Not really. The leaders had the choice of keeping Singapore in the federation but decided to let them go because they know if Lee Kuan Yew is allowed to stay, he would cause an insurrection. A truly despotic regime would have jailed Lee Kuan Yew & go about their business nonchalantly.

So yes, we gave Singapore their independence.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3776
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:19 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:

It's one thing to see police exerting force against protesters (B/c, as much as the protesters in HK complain about it, it's also true that you'll see the same thing in "western", "civilized" country like US or UK or France. Plus the leader of that anti-riot squad in HK is a Briton), it's another to see police standing there to let the triads literally take control of the street and beat everyone up as they wish.


Yes but like you say, they lost all credibility back in June so we can't have too greater expectations of him.

Veigar wrote:
you just had to go and drag trump into it, didn't you

Feel free to defend him if that makes you feel better.


Dieuwer wrote:
Never understood why the British did not push for Hong Kong independence. As Singapore has shown, a city state can be very viable.


Well, technically the lease agreement was signed with the Qing Dynasty which became the ROC, so maybe they should have returned it to Taiwan back in 1997. :bouncy: :stirthepot:

I agree with you though. Thatcher sold Hong Kongers to the devil when she agreed in 1984 to hand the territory back, rather than let it seek independence.

zakuivcustom wrote:
Malaysia did not "gave" Singapore independence, Singapore was literally kicked out of the federation, and has no choice but to be an independent state.

One of the best ways to get independence. :rotfl: :rotfl:

zakuivcustom wrote:
Little to they know that Singapore would develop into the economic force that it is today, while Malaysia is...well, Malaysia with their useless, corrupt gov't.


Well it's less corrupt than when Razak was running the show.

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for why UK did not push for HK independence - they never has the intention to. Their intention was to keep HK as a colony, but the negotiation went nowhere, and UK pretty much went sissy and didn't want to risk a war with China (And you're talking about a poor China back in 1984). Hack, HK didn't even have democratic election until 1992, and that's only part of the LegCo (A system that remained today, and is one of the reason why HK is a mess right now - when people vote 50-50 but pro-gov't force has a near supermajority b/c they get to control all the "Constituency" seats representing special interest for Big Business, Real Estate Firm, basically anything but the ordinary citizens...think of what'll happen to US Congress if lobbyists get to directly vote on legislation).

At the end of the day, what can one expect from UK anyway? They're the same country that draw random lines in Middle East when they carved up Ottoman Empire, resulting in decades of ongoing conflicts in that region (Ask the Kurds...or the Armenians)


Unfortunately, incompetence is the British Foreign Office's speciality.
First to fly the 787-9
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:25 pm

zkojq wrote:
Yes but like you say, they lost all credibility back in June so we can't have too greater expectations of him.


True. Actually, in reality, I've zero expectations of basically all the HK officials by now.

zkojq wrote:
Well, technically the lease agreement was signed with the Qing Dynasty which became the ROC, so maybe they should have returned it to Taiwan back in 1997.

I agree with you though. Thatcher sold Hong Kongers to the devil when she agreed in 1984 to hand the territory back, rather than let it seek independence.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

On the other hand, it's not like ROC (Taiwan) in 1984 is all that great anyway - they're still under White Terror (martial law) for one thing.

But yes, Thatcher totally sold out HKers. Can't blame it on the like of Chris Patten, either - they petition UK parliament, but the UK parliament are just sissy that don't want to piss off (not even that strong back in 1990s) China.
 
seat64k
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:27 pm

As someone who grew up with a father who loved Hong Kong martial arts movies, I must say I'm deeply disappointed with the quality of hand-to-hand observed so far /jk

In seriousness though, I'm suspicious of the claim that the white shirts are (all, by implication) triads. Maybe some of them are - I've certainly seen some reports identifying a few of them as known triads. But most struck me as too not really familiar with fighting. Sure, they were brazen and aggressive and violent, but some of them look like they've never swung a pvc pipe before. Maybe triads aren't quite the gangsters I'm imagining?

The reason I'm suspicious: there's a video clip doing the round showing a bunch of people turning on the white shirts. The white shirts make a run for it pretty quickly - looked pretty cowardly to me. Like the common street criminals who absolutely expect you to comply and have no plan B.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:10 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
seat64k wrote:
I'm one of those people that wear the same thing every day. Chinos and a plain black shirt. I'll report back if the triads take issue with me.


From the video I saw, it's not like those triads really care about whether one is wearing black shirts anyway - they are just swinging their wooden stick at everybody like a madman anyway.

But I repeat myself again - it's seriously not too different than something like "fascist" vs. "antifa" BS in US anyway (Where you got both side claiming the other is violent...and a gov't that just stay silence just b/c those people are the "frontline" idiot that did what the gov't wants to do) - easily avoidable.

I agree with most of what you have been posting, but

What Antifa vs fascist thing are you referencing in the US, there is nothing. The threads here on a.net about these incidents are all scattered events reported in questionable news sources with an obvious bias ie. Breitbart
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:29 pm

stl07 wrote:
What Antifa vs fascist thing are you referencing in the US, there is nothing. The threads here on a.net about these incidents are all scattered events reported in questionable news sources with an obvious bias ie. Breitbart


And that's exactly my point - even with the protests going on, the so-call "violence" (Before the white-shirt mob, that is) are usually limited to certain groups of protesters, is limited to a block or two at max. For examples, last week in Sheung Wan, there are something like 300k people went to the protest itself. The "violence" between police and protesters involved maybe a few hundreds protesters.

Hack, even the white-shirt mob violence would be limited to certain neighborhoods of HK. The triads are violent, but they ain't stupid enough to raise a ruckus in the middle of a business district. Yes, for now, it's best to avoid those neighborhoods such as Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, or Tin Shui Wai especially at night, but unless you're a local (or well, some "parallel trader" from mainland PRC), it's not places that you would normally go to anyway.
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:33 pm

SQ32 wrote:
When China opens up, Hong Kong loss her status as the middleman. The inevitable demise of Hong Kong is all but certain. Hong Kong people antagonism towards China is due to the failure of adjusting to the fact of their relative demise.
Spot on. Hong Kong was a product of its time, that's all there's to say. In fact if China was smart it would just sit and wait for the problem to resolve on its own. Unfortunately there's always powerful people with inflated egos who are too impatient to wait,...... and for this people have to suffer.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:42 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
stl07 wrote:
What Antifa vs fascist thing are you referencing in the US, there is nothing. The threads here on a.net about these incidents are all scattered events reported in questionable news sources with an obvious bias ie. Breitbart


And that's exactly my point - even with the protests going on, the so-call "violence" (Before the white-shirt mob, that is) are usually limited to certain groups of protesters, is limited to a block or two at max. For examples, last week in Sheung Wan, there are something like 300k people went to the protest itself. The "violence" between police and protesters involved maybe a few hundreds protesters.

Hack, even the white-shirt mob violence would be limited to certain neighborhoods of HK. The triads are violent, but they ain't stupid enough to raise a ruckus in the middle of a business district. Yes, for now, it's best to avoid those neighborhoods such as Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, or Tin Shui Wai especially at night, but unless you're a local (or well, some "parallel trader" from mainland PRC), it's not places that you would normally go to anyway.

Aha, that makes more sense, thank you
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:52 pm

YokoTsuno wrote:
Spot on. Hong Kong was a product of its time, that's all there's to say. In fact if China was smart it would just sit and wait for the problem to resolve on its own. Unfortunately there's always powerful people with inflated egos who are too impatient to wait,...... and for this people have to suffer.


Can't agree enough - and not just wait for the problem to be resolve, what about just stop their meddling and let HK run themselves (Which is basically all HKers are asking for anyway). But hey, too many special interests (Between those dirty money from CCP officials to getting lucrative contracts from gov't to fatten their own pocket, etc.) for that to happen. Then in HK, you got too many people that sold their soul for some extra RMB anyway. And to earn RMB, you have to play by the mainland PRC rule.
 
CityRail
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:26 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:03 am

Attention passengers:

Image

Political riots will occur at HKG (Hong Kong Airport) this Friday between 13:00 and 23:59 local time. (GMT +8)
Please do NOT travel to Hong Kong this Friday to avoid being shot by police, beaten by triad society or bricks thrown by protesters.
I officially appeal to all airlines to immediately CANCEL all flights to Hong Kong this Thursday night and Friday, to ensure the safety of all passengers.
 
CityRail
Topic Author
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:26 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:11 am

zakuivcustom wrote:

Can't agree enough - and not just wait for the problem to be resolve, what about just stop their meddling and let HK run themselves (Which is basically all HKers are asking for anyway). But hey, too many special interests (Between those dirty money from CCP officials to getting lucrative contracts from gov't to fatten their own pocket, etc.) for that to happen. Then in HK, you got too many people that sold their soul for some extra RMB anyway. And to earn RMB, you have to play by the mainland PRC rule.


The solution to Hong Kong's problem since 1997 is very simple - Chinese Exclusion and complete destruction of Chinese's Economy.

Chinese Exclusion, which we have experienced in Malaysia, Vietnam etc. will be in particular useful against Mainland Chinese companies and people in Hong Kong.

Once they are all get rid of, then Hong Kong will be a lot of more peaceful.

Externally, I appeal to all finance professionals in the US, UK, EU, Australia and SE Asia, to destroy the economy of China, and ensure China will suffer a minimum 5% decrease in GDP from 2020, and a minimum 10% decrease from 2022.

This will shoot up the unemployment rate, also it will allow Chinese people to unrest within China, ultimately US, UK, EU, Australia, Japan and Korea can use as an excuse to protect its citizens by deploying its armies to enter China and force them to sign treaties to divide the Chinese land.
 
User avatar
SQ32
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:01 am

The Chinese state is largest and longest unitary entity. You have more luck seeing USA fragmented. China has also world largest GDP for most of the time in history.

The reemergence of China as world most powerful economy is the world history back to normal trajectory.
 
c933103
Posts: 3792
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:28 am

SQ32 wrote:
The Chinese state is largest and longest unitary entity. You have more luck seeing USA fragmented. China has also world largest GDP for most of the time in history.

Yeah that's what China want you to believe in
The reemergence of China as world most powerful economy is the world history back to normal trajectory.

That's only true when you view China as a geographical area but compare it with other individual countries
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:50 am

CityRail wrote:
Attention passengers:

Image

Political riots will occur at HKG (Hong Kong Airport) this Friday between 13:00 and 23:59 local time. (GMT +8)
Please do NOT travel to Hong Kong this Friday to avoid being shot by police, beaten by triad society or bricks thrown by protesters.
I officially appeal to all airlines to immediately CANCEL all flights to Hong Kong this Thursday night and Friday, to ensure the safety of all passengers.


Gosh...STOP SPREADING FAKE NEWS.

A sit-in by people working in aviation industry is suddenly “political riots”?

If anything, I wish everyone at the airport goes on a strike that day. What? Carrie Lam will come out and cry about how “violent” people are again?

CityRail wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

Can't agree enough - and not just wait for the problem to be resolve, what about just stop their meddling and let HK run themselves (Which is basically all HKers are asking for anyway). But hey, too many special interests (Between those dirty money from CCP officials to getting lucrative contracts from gov't to fatten their own pocket, etc.) for that to happen. Then in HK, you got too many people that sold their soul for some extra RMB anyway. And to earn RMB, you have to play by the mainland PRC rule.


The solution to Hong Kong's problem since 1997 is very simple - Chinese Exclusion and complete destruction of Chinese's Economy.

Chinese Exclusion, which we have experienced in Malaysia, Vietnam etc. will be in particular useful against Mainland Chinese companies and people in Hong Kong.

Once they are all get rid of, then Hong Kong will be a lot of more peaceful.

Externally, I appeal to all finance professionals in the US, UK, EU, Australia and SE Asia, to destroy the economy of China, and ensure China will suffer a minimum 5% decrease in GDP from 2020, and a minimum 10% decrease from 2022.

This will shoot up the unemployment rate, also it will allow Chinese people to unrest within China, ultimately US, UK, EU, Australia, Japan and Korea can use as an excuse to protect its citizens by deploying its armies to enter China and force them to sign treaties to divide the Chinese land.


I wish the last part will happen. But even then, how has embargo works for places like Cuba or Iran? All you see is the average people hating US more.

Plus good luck telling western companies to earn less RMB. They have sold their soul to the devil long, long time ago.

BTW, if you are in HK, not only HK will not be immune to the economic downturn, but you will probably see a bunch of mainlander wanting to flee down south again like 1960s/70s. Close the border, you said? They will just storm across Shenzhen River. You’re saying just shoot all of them? Yeah, that will make sure HK’s standing in the world to fall further.

Be careful of what you wish for.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:15 pm

c933103 wrote:
SQ32 wrote:
The Chinese state is largest and longest unitary entity. You have more luck seeing USA fragmented. China has also world largest GDP for most of the time in history.

Yeah that's what China want you to believe in


China is also known for infighting and fragmentation for most of the time in history. Hack, the most known period of China around the world right now beside the current CCP regime is probably the Three Kingdoms period.

CityRail wrote:
The solution to Hong Kong's problem since 1997 is very simple - Chinese Exclusion and complete destruction of Chinese's Economy.

Chinese Exclusion, which we have experienced in Malaysia, Vietnam etc. will be in particular useful against Mainland Chinese companies and people in Hong Kong.

Once they are all get rid of, then Hong Kong will be a lot of more peaceful.

Externally, I appeal to all finance professionals in the US, UK, EU, Australia and SE Asia, to destroy the economy of China, and ensure China will suffer a minimum 5% decrease in GDP from 2020, and a minimum 10% decrease from 2022.

This will shoot up the unemployment rate, also it will allow Chinese people to unrest within China, ultimately US, UK, EU, Australia, Japan and Korea can use as an excuse to protect its citizens by deploying its armies to enter China and force them to sign treaties to divide the Chinese land.


Adding on to this more - China will just implode by themselves soon anyway. There are internal problems that CCP has try to hide just to keep that "River Crab society". Plus, now that PRC is part of the globalized economy, once a global downturn happen, they won't be immune to that, unlike last time around (i.e. 2008, when they were just getting started).
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:20 pm

SQ32 wrote:
The Chinese state is largest and longest unitary entity. You have more luck seeing USA fragmented. China has also world largest GDP.
The reemergence of China as world most powerful economy is the world history back to normal trajectory.
A bit simplistic if you ask me. In order for a nation to be a superpower it needs to draw admiration from the rest of the world. The US had that status, but lost a lot of its feathers through its own screw-ups and I am not old enough to have any notion of how the Mongol or Roman empire was perceived.

I think we still need to wait a while before we are going to see Californians arriving on make-shift floats at the shores of Hangzhou Bay to subject themselves to the virtues of the CCP.
 
UAUA
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:50 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:06 pm

USA is still by far the largest+most powerful economy.

Hong Kong is very safe overall. It is like the world's second or third safest city. No doubt a very advanced/wealthy city as the world's 3rd largest business and financial centre after New York and London. You will be fine
My former profile name was United Airline.
 
MSMinHKG
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:27 am

I'm an American expat -- white, late 40s -- in Hong Kong. I have lived here 11 years, 2 of which were in Yuen Long. I also work up in that part of the New Territories. I have to take strong exception to the hyperbolic tone of the OP's admonition to avoid traveling here. Yes, the political situation is a mess, and yes, horrific violence broke out in the Yuen Long MTR station. Yes, triads were involved. Yes, everything about what happened there was deeply problematic. Much has been written about it elsewhere, and to be honest, I'm living with it as my daily reality so do not want to rehash the whole thing.

If you're coming to HK for business or leisure, there is a vanishingly small chance that you will get caught up in this mess. Protests are not breaking out in all districts. They are scheduled in advance. I have participated in a couple of the marches, including the one that culminated in the ransacking of LegCo (I was not involved in that in any way, I should add). The marches themselves have been safe and peaceful. That has remained a priority throughout, and it has been largely upheld. The acts of violence that have broken out after some of them were instigated by the police, which has a lot to do with why the protests have continued and intensified. (LegCo and the defacing of the Chinese national emblem on the Liaison Office building are a separate matter.) Moreover, a system has developed in order to provide rapid first aid to people who are taken ill during the marches. I have never seen anything like what's going on here, but I think it speaks to the underlying decency of the people -- the unique HK character and values that we are trying to preserve.

If you want to monitor the situation here, the Hong Kong Free Press is a good place to check: https://www.hongkongfp.com/
There's also a Facebook group called Be Water HK: https://www.facebook.com/BeWater-HK-2406628919558580/

These will give you up-to-date information about protest actions and places that might become dangerous. General rule of thumb: protests during the day are safe, and at this point -- based on the one that was held at the airport yesterday (it was not a riot and characterizing it as such was irresponsible and inaccurate; my partner passed through there on the way home from a business trip and was perfectly safe) -- is that HK people want the world to know what is going on here. The one thing I would avoid is being out at or past the scheduled end of any protest action, in the area where one is wrapping up. This is where things have gotten problematic. As for the attack in Yuen Long... yes, that happened. I don't want to minimize how awful it was. On the other hand, Yuen Long is so far from central HK that it might as well be another city. There is nothing there of touristic interest. And, well, that's where the triads are. (I would see lots of tattoos when I went to the gym.) Is such a thing likely to happen again in a more central area? There have been some rumors that Yuen Long was actually Plan B and that the main protest march was the original target. I don't know if I believe this, though.

To wrap this up (thanks for reading, if you still are), please do not avoid HK on the assumption that it has turned into a lawless hellhole. It hasn't. Far from it. Things are generally still as tidy and organized as they ever were. There are problems, but any adult old enough to travel should already have a sense of what precautions to take in an unfamiliar city.

Ga yau.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:06 pm

MSMinHKG wrote:
If you're coming to HK for business or leisure, there is a vanishingly small chance that you will get caught up in this mess. Protests are not breaking out in all districts. They are scheduled in advance. I have participated in a couple of the marches, including the one that culminated in the ransacking of LegCo (I was not involved in that in any way, I should add). The marches themselves have been safe and peaceful. That has remained a priority throughout, and it has been largely upheld. The acts of violence that have broken out after some of them were instigated by the police, which has a lot to do with why the protests have continued and intensified. (LegCo and the defacing of the Chinese national emblem on the Liaison Office building are a separate matter.) Moreover, a system has developed in order to provide rapid first aid to people who are taken ill during the marches. I have never seen anything like what's going on here, but I think it speaks to the underlying decency of the people -- the unique HK character and values that we are trying to preserve.


Indeed. Just take the Yuen Long "protest" (b/c all people are doing in Yuen Long is to buy some Wife Cake :duck: ) today (and still ongoing) - it has ALWAYS been instigation by police that make things turn south quickly. On the other hand, 99.9% of the people going to Yuen Long to "shop" today that departed before night are safe.

You're ALWAYS going to have some conflicts between protesters and police - Hong Kong, US, France, South Korea, etc.. The HK police are clearly frustrated by now and are losing their mind, as shown by their "just use tear gas every single time" tactics. On the other hand, how many protests you can see people just clear the roads for ambulances? What about keeping things 99% peaceful? Not many places.

MSMinHKG wrote:
On the other hand, Yuen Long is so far from central HK that it might as well be another city. There is nothing there of touristic interest. And, well, that's where the triads are. (I would see lots of tattoos when I went to the gym.) Is such a thing likely to happen again in a more central area? There have been some rumors that Yuen Long was actually Plan B and that the main protest march was the original target. I don't know if I believe this, though.


Welcome to the People's Republic of Yuen Long :).

I wouldn't say Yuen Long has no touristic interest - the walled villages are as "indigenous" as you can get (Although I would not go in there for now...) with some historical buildings that was there pre-Colonial era. There are also a fair number of food stalls that didn't sacrifice quality just b/c of the increased amount of people knowing about the restaurant. It's definitely off the beaten track, though, and is not a place where most tourists (or, anyone that's not a parallel trader) would even know about or go into anyway.

P.S. Thanks for your supports of ordinary HK people. That's definitely going way beyond me as a "keyboard warrior" while sitting in US, unable to do much :(.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2695
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:48 pm

Well, all I'll say is...

1. It's definitely becoming more and more chaotic. The police are losing their discipline IMO and just shoot off tear gas everywhere.
2. With the protests just spreading from one part of the city to another quickly, I definitely advised people traveling to HK to keep up on latest informations almost real-time (HKFP probably can't keep up, SCMP should be ok. Not sure if Cable News or Now News has English channel available live)
2b. To be specific - avoid areas around police stations, where things can turn chaotic quickly unless you know your way around.
2c. Ultimately, if you're in an area and things start to not look right (i.e. protesting crowd start to gather), try to leave the area ASAP. MTR is probably the best choice if it's available, as protesters had spontaneously block major arteries (albeit usually only set up a roadblock for maybe 15-20 mins).
3. The police English are awful...so don't expect much help from them (I've seen videos where some local "westerner" resident trying to return to their home and the police have absolutely no idea what he was saying)
4. General strike on Aug. 5th, expect travel delays.
5. For the past 2 days, my observation is that the protest is turning grassroot, with numerous local residents (which are...well, very "violent" dressing in flip flops and shorts and nothing else :duck: ) shouting/heckling at police as the police presence is definitely disruptive and almost illogical at times (i.e. using riot police to clear areas where protesters had long left).
6. Last note - the chances of one getting injured by the "violent protesters" remain extremely low (Unless you're a popo, then good luck), but with the police trying to disperse crowd at times with zero tactics, one can be caught in a "crossfire" and get injured by the police.

Sigh...all this and the gov't officials are still hiding in their residence, letting police taking the blunt of the actions. For once I wish for a massive strike that totally disrupt everything, just to (hopefully) wake those idiotic gov't officials (Especially you, Carrie Lam and your disappearing act since June 9th) up.
 
MSMinHKG
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:07 am

In light of the events since my previous post (I'd have replied sooner but just moved to a new flat), I'd like to update what I said before. Today there is a citywide general strike going on. Much public transportation has been immobilized, from what I can tell, including most of the MTR. The airport seems to be operating via a skeleton crew. I believe it's down to single-runway ops, with many cancellations. The government has just given a press conference on the situation, and from what I caught of it, more or less guaranteed the protests will continue. I believe a reporter from the SCMP basically asked the CE whether she realized she had missed the point of the protests entirely. That about sums the situation up. The government's finger-wagging arrogance, cluelessness, and (let's be blunt) disrespect toward the population, as evidenced by the remarks in this press conference, will turn out to be the equivalent of trying to put out a fire by farting at it.

Is it still safe to travel here? I would still give a qualified yes. I agree with the points @zakuivcustom made. The police have collectively lost the plot: launching tear gas without issuing warnings first, waling on protestors they happen to catch (and shining bright lights at nearby journalists to impede attempts at taking video of the brutality), attacking journalists, roughing up passersby (some elderly people have been injured), harassing tourists. This is a total and shocking loss of discipline. There has been at least one other bit MTR drama before today's general strike: cops were frisking passengers and searching them in Mong Kok sometime last week. The chaos is spreading all over the city but it isn't like an ongoing battle in a war: the protests happen, there are confrontations with police, and then the protestors usually disperse after several hours. The current flashpoint is Wong Tai Sin up in northeast Kowloon, but there have been protests and violence along the whole urban corridor on HK Island from Sai Wan to Causeway Bay, and in Kowloon and the New Territories: Tsim Sha Tsui, Jordan, Mong Kok, Wong Tai Sin, Kwai Chung, Cheung Sha Wan, Mei Foo, Kwai Fong, Tseung Kwan O, Yuen Long, Tuen Mun, Sha Tin, Po Lam, and Tin Shui Wai. (In fairness, some of these were spillovers from single events.) If you're trying to choose a hotel in an area that has gone unaffected, don't bother. Even the airport has been affected.

The main point is, as @zakuivcustom said, to avoid police stations at the moment if there are protests on. I still think that checking out the protests from the periphery and during the day if one is taking place will not get you hurt. You will not get hurt by protestors. The idea of that happening is laughable. The police, unfortunately, are another matter. Please also keep in mind that this is a serious matter and if you're there just to be a tourist, please show some respect for what's going on.

A few recommendations:

1. If you need to choose a hotel away from likely epicenters, consider the corridor from TST to Whampoa. There have been some protests in Kowloon, but not as many, and hotels like the Kerry and Harbour Plaza are kind of isolated but still close in and convenient. (I'm not a representative for these, but I lived over there until last week.) On the Island side, consider places in North Point and Tai Koo.
2. I would avoid the northwest New Territories at the moment (Tsuen Wan to Tuen Mun). Unfortunately, the "blame Westerners" mentality is a thing.
3. Keep up with the news: the sources I posted earlier, the SCMP, and anything else Google will offer.
4. When you get here, get a prepaid SIM card right away. You can do this at the 7-11 in the arrival hall at the airport. If you're coming by train from Guangzhou or Shenzhen, both train stations have convenience stores and/or phone shops where you can do this. Don't rely on wifi. The situation is fluid, and you will want immediate access to maps and news.
5. If you're anywhere near a protest while one is going on, do not wear black. (Plan ahead.)

A final word on what is happening. The focus of the protests has shifted somewhat. The original one was about the extradition bill, which has been suspended but not formally withdrawn. Police-led violence broke out at the end of it, which triggered the second march (the massive one with 2m people). In the interim, the five demands were issued: to withdraw the bill, drop charges against protestors, drop the characterization of the protests as riots, for Carrie Lam to step down, and to institute the universal suffrage that was promised in the handover agreement but ultimately reneged upon (which is really what a lot of this is about). Nothing was done, which led to further protests with increasingly unhinged violence from the police. Even the ransacking of LegCo and the defacement of the Chinese national emblem and flag did not warrant what has been done to the protestors -- much less to bystanders and passersby who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The brutality I've seen on live TV... I can't talk about it without foaming at the mouth with anger. Although the police are the current focus, and a degree of popular sentiment maintains that the violence is being used as a distraction from the original demands, they have not been forgotten. Characterizing these protests as riots is lazy and inaccurate. Certain politicians (whether they are in office legitimately or not) are doing that to score political points, but they do not know what they are talking about. There is not mass crazy violence in the street at all hours, and you can generally go about your business in peace. Just stay informed and be careful.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5230
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:22 am

I have only visited once HKG a few years ago and I felt the most dystopian place I have ever been to.

The urban density, speculation and low-quality of life for the average worker is like nothing I have seen anywhere else. HK has the least affordable housing market in the world by a wide margin.

Probably this could partially off-set with a booming economy (thanks to China) and some freedoms compared to their mainland peers. But now with the world/Asian/Chinese economy cooling down and China taking away some freedoms, the whole thing is unsurprisingly starting to collapse.
 
Yossarian22
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:25 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:36 am

I’m a tourist in Hong Kong at the moment.

A march of blackshirts just passed by. They were very peaceful. They even stopped to let pedestrians cross the street.

I chatted with a couple of them in a connivence store, and thanked them for their courage.

The protestors are peaceful, the police are violent.

If you see a crowd of protestors coming by, try and make sure you have an out. If you her police sirens, GTFO as quickly as possible.
 
Yossarian22
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:25 am

Re: Do NOT travel to Hong Kong, in particular on weekends

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:36 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I have only visited once HKG a few years ago and I felt the most dystopian place I have ever been to.

The urban density, speculation and low-quality of life for the average worker is like nothing I have seen anywhere else. HK has the least affordable housing market in the world by a wide margin.

Probably this could partially off-set with a booming economy (thanks to China) and some freedoms compared to their mainland peers. But now with the world/Asian/Chinese economy cooling down and China taking away some freedoms, the whole thing is unsurprisingly starting to collapse.


So, you’ve never been to Beijing, I take it?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dutchy, fr8mech, L410Turbolet, sincx and 38 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos