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FTMCPIUS
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AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:49 pm

https://deadline.com/2019/07/cbs-blacko ... /#comments

From the article:
Many viewers (subscribers) are claiming AT&T’s actions are in violation of their contracts. AT&T claims CBS wants a sky-high rate/fee increase, over and above what it pays other networks, while pulling popular content (programs) such as The Good Fight, The Twilight Zone and Big Brother: Over the Top from conventional broadcasts and making them available only on subscription-based CBS All Access.
======
So, millions of viewers are left hanging because their subscriptions/contracts do not explicitly guarantee CBS viewing. It seems that while Obama’s FCC tried to level the playing field in the Internet world with Net Neutrality, it didn’t have the foresight to impose similar rules in the broadcast world.

While two adults engage in a bitter marital divorce, it’s the children who suffer most.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title edited for clarity
 
mdsh00
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:06 pm

This is why I cut the cord and stream with YouTube TV.
 
johns624
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:27 pm

Title makes it sound like AT&T turned off programming because there was a fight on TV. Corporations don't have "brawls".
 
blueflyer
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:30 pm

There's a proposal in Congress that would prevent one side from removing service for a period of time after a carriage contract has expired. Distributors are in favor, most content providers not so much.

I get that CBS wants higher compensation, their contract is 7 years old after all, however viewing habits have significantly changed in the meantime. Their short-term gains are only pushing closer to a longer-term future where it's all or nearly all a-la-carte...
 
mham001
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:38 pm

So what, this has happened before. The easy way for most is to simply use the radio waves for free, which is a thorn in the networks as they don't get paid by both advertisers and carriers and why they desire a paid content model. It also highlights how dependent we've become on ISP's, they are the new eevil cable company.
 
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:10 pm

The title is confusing.

Something similar happened here in France, TV channels are asking for more and more money, and one ISP refused, leading to people being cut. The impact is not as big though, because these channels are available free to air, and there is also a free satellite broadcast, so you just need to have an antenna to get them.

In fact the ISP in question, Free, has a DVB-T plug on its media unit, so you can get and record the channels with it without using your bandwidth.
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910A
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:24 pm

I read this as CBS owned stations are the only ones being blacked out, the affiliates are still showing CBS programing.
 
mham001
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to brawl -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:27 pm

Aesma wrote:
Something similar happened here in France, TV channels are asking for more and more money, and one ISP refused, leading to people being cut. The impact is not as big though, because these channels are available free to air, and there is also a free satellite broadcast, so you just need to have an antenna to get them.


It is the same here, CBS is a broadcast network but huge amounts of people, beyond those who can't receive a clear signal, don't know that you don't need to pay for TV.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:46 pm

johns624 wrote:
Title makes it sound like AT&T turned off programming because there was a fight on TV. Corporations don't have "brawls".

Merriam-Webster definition of brawl: "To quarrel or fight noisily." It doesn’t state this is specific only to persons, but I changed the title for you.
 
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:53 pm

Cable TV itself is a dead man walking.

Cable TV vendors no longer fight to keep your TV business: if you call up and say you're going to satellite they do not offer any inducement to stay.

They are making more money selling their bandwidth to Internet users for the very reason this thread highlights: The content providers keep asking for more money and it's now to the point the CATV providers don't make much if any money off of TV subscribers.

A secondary reason is that cable is the primary way most in the US get their internet, which means the CATV outfits can see every web page URL you load, and can sell that data off to advertisers.

CATV providers are also now using their leverage to charge content providers like Netflix a fee to prioritize (or, more likely, to not de-prioritize) their network traffic.

It's a nice fat business to have, one largely built by their ability to buy off FCC and Congress with regards to net neutrality and privacy laws.

Also, the major CATV providers used the windfall profits they made in the past to buy TV networks and studios, and now that everyone has a Smart TV or a Roku or a Fire TV stick they can bypass the CATV subscription model and take in money directly from the subscriber without paying their competing CATV providers.

Now we have the situation where the end user pays for the equipment, pays for the bandwidth, pays for the content, and surrenders their privacy, pretty much the best possible outcome for the corporate giants.


As for me, I've been a cord cutter for several years now.

The new thing for me is I finally dumped Netflix. Their mix of recycled network TV shows and edgy documentaries were no longer of interest to me. I find I'm quite satisfied via YouTube (for sci-tech and history content), Amazon (since I buy Prime anyway for free shipping) and broadcast TV (can get all the NFL content I want for free, plus NBA finals).

Maybe when I retire (thankfully not too far in the future) I will find a way to get a big chunk of live sports content, but other than that, I can't see myself needing anything that cable provides.
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Dieuwer
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:52 pm

Seems like we have come full circle:
First, people were watching TV over-the-air with an (analog) antenna on top of the roof. Then we were told that cable is the best, new thing and we should get rid of those "ugly" antennas. And now people are cutting out the cable again to (go back to) having a (digital) antenna.

Revelation wrote:
Cable TV itself is a dead man walking.

Cable TV vendors no longer fight to keep your TV business: if you call up and say you're going to satellite they do not offer any inducement to stay.
They are making more money selling their bandwidth to Internet users for the very reason this thread highlights: The content providers keep asking for more money and it's now to the point the CATV providers don't make much if any money off of TV subscribers.
A secondary reason is that cable is the primary way most in the US get their internet, which means the CATV outfits can see every web page URL you load, and can sell that data off to advertisers.
CATV providers are also now using their leverage to charge content providers like Netflix a fee to prioritize (or, more likely, to not de-prioritize) their network traffic.
It's a nice fat business to have, one largely built by their ability to buy off FCC and Congress with regards to net neutrality and privacy laws..


I shows you there is a dire need for (uncapped) wireless broadband at an affordable rate.
 
Airstud
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:02 pm

Nobody "lost access;" they lost convenience.

CBS programming is, as it's always been; free over the air with a $10-$15 antenna.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:44 pm

Airstud wrote:
Nobody "lost access;" they lost convenience.

CBS programming is, as it's always been; free over the air with a $10-$15 antenna.

Depends on where you live.

In my case it was more like $200 for a full sized antenna in the attic, a low noise pre-amp, and all the mounting hardware and cabling.

For others, no amount of antenna is going to bring in the signal, or their residence does not allow them access to a suitable location to mount a suitable antenna and run the signal back to their TV.

Dieuwer wrote:
I shows you there is a dire need for (uncapped) wireless broadband at an affordable rate.

You are dreaming.

There are already too many entrenched interests who have too much money on the table to let such a thing undermine their investments.

Ref: Net Neutrality outcome.
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LittleFokker
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:50 pm

Airstud wrote:
Nobody "lost access;" they lost convenience.

CBS programming is, as it's always been; free over the air with a $10-$15 antenna.


Didn't that change like 5 years ago when the big networks switched to digital transmission, so a traditional antenna would no longer work? Either you needed a cable/satellite hookup, or had to get a higher tech antenna (probably $100 or more, not sure) that could pick up the digital signal.

-----------------------------------------

As for the dispute between AT&T and CBS, why do they make us call/email/petition the competitor to "fight fair" (whatever that means)? Make a deal, literally nothing I do will influence the outcome of the dispute. I have better things to do with my time than involve myself in a corporate fight that I have little influence over anyways.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:02 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Didn't that change like 5 years ago when the big networks switched to digital transmission, so a traditional antenna would no longer work? Either you needed a cable/satellite hookup, or had to get a higher tech antenna (probably $100 or more, not sure) that could pick up the digital signal.

I think most people will find that the digital modes require a smaller antenna, but the signals are even more "line of sight" than at least the old VHF band was (i.e. channels 2-13).

LittleFokker wrote:
As for the dispute between AT&T and CBS, why do they make us call/email/petition the competitor to "fight fair" (whatever that means)? Make a deal, literally nothing I do will influence the outcome of the dispute. I have better things to do with my time than involve myself in a corporate fight that I have little influence over anyways.

Agree, but as you probably realize, each side would love to get the public to fight its battle for it.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:34 am

CBS trying to squeeze as much revenue as they can to subsidize their football contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Problem is, streaming is squeezing the turnip about as much as it can. AT&T has already said DirecTV via satellite is going away. They’re is chatter they are going to spin the satellite business to Dish. They are bleeding customers for linear programming right now. Disney just took over Hulu, so that’s going to squeeze them even more. We’re about to flip the switch. Hulu has everything we need and the ability to watch catalog programming is pretty slick. What’s more is Hulu with DVR and unlimited devices is $50 a month less than DirecTV for the same programming.

Things keep going the way they are, AT&T might not be around in 10 years. They are way behind on fiber in some key markets. Products like Ooma crush AT&Ts phone service.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:00 am

Ha....
Why I use an antenna for local channels, and $5/month for Locast, for the local channels that my antenna can't get well enough sometimes.
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jordanh
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:44 am

Super80Fan wrote:
AT&T is run by Satan himself. Glad I cut ties in all regards with that awful company, couldn't be happier.


There is a good reason why the AT&T logo looks like to Death Star...

;)
 
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:00 pm

DL717 wrote:
CBS trying to squeeze as much revenue as they can to subsidize their football contract. Nothing more, nothing less. Problem is, streaming is squeezing the turnip about as much as it can. AT&T has already said DirecTV via satellite is going away. They’re is chatter they are going to spin the satellite business to Dish. They are bleeding customers for linear programming right now. Disney just took over Hulu, so that’s going to squeeze them even more. We’re about to flip the switch. Hulu has everything we need and the ability to watch catalog programming is pretty slick. What’s more is Hulu with DVR and unlimited devices is $50 a month less than DirecTV for the same programming.

Things keep going the way they are, AT&T might not be around in 10 years. They are way behind on fiber in some key markets. Products like Ooma crush AT&Ts phone service.

I tried Hulu and was totally put off by the number of commercials even after paying more to skip commercials. Their DVR forced you to sit through commercials, which is absurd!

Dieuwer wrote:
Seems like we have come full circle:
First, people were watching TV over-the-air with an (analog) antenna on top of the roof. Then we were told that cable is the best, new thing and we should get rid of those "ugly" antennas. And now people are cutting out the cable again to (go back to) having a (digital) antenna.

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2019/7/12/ ... g-services is pretty relevant to your post.

It sets things up thusly:

The sheer comprehensiveness of a mid-2010s Netflix subscription may never be replicated. In its place, a slew of new services are contending for a slice of the pie, each with their own attendant costs and flashy benefits to help them earn a portion of viewers’ finite entertainment budgets. As the number of services required to keep up with pop culture skyrockets, the dream of a streamlined alternative to a hefty cable fee is rapidly fizzling out. With no fewer than four major services set to roll out in the next year, the question is less about whether any of them can replace Netflix than which stands the best chance of chipping away at its market share—and how much a slightly weakened Netflix can retain. We took a look at Disney+, Apple TV+, HBO Max, and NBCUniversal’s still-unnamed service to evaluate their selling points, their secret weapons, and most importantly, whether they stand a chance of earning a spot in consumers’ growing portfolio of streaming options.

It's a solid article, but yeah, they lose me when they suggest we all have an innate need to "keep up with pop culture". The answer is clear: stop giving a damn about what others think is important and decide on your own how to spend your own time and in turn your own money.

But, yeah, the article goes on to review each of the new entrants. In particular it makes the point that Disney+ will be more focused on kids and Hulu will be for adults, so if you're an adult with kids or grandkids be ready to pay for both, and be ready for price increases on both after they kill off cable and satellite.

Its conclusion:

All four of these streaming services are vying to become the new Netflix—but the circumstances that created Netflix in the first place are negated by the existence of so many viable contenders. Disney, Apple, WarnerMedia, and Comcast are instead escalating Peak TV to ever-more-staggering heights, with the choice paralysis plaguing modern viewers extending from what to watch to how much to pay to where to watch it. Each impending service has its own arsenal of not-so-secret weapons in the war for attention; the truth may be, however, that there’s no real silver bullet. Nothing can fully replicate the 360-degree experience of a cable package, except the no-longer-inconceivable resurgence of cable as a solution to cord-cutters’ problems. And the illusion of a comprehensive entertainment package for a fraction of the price has been revealed to be just that.

So, your sequence of OTA (over the air broadcast) to cable back to OTA now is seen as lacking and the next step seems to be back to cable.

To be honest if you spend a lot of time watching TV and especially if you like sports, cable TV with a stand alone DVR that can skip commercials like TiVo is the way to go.

At this point in my life I don't spend enough time watching TV to justify it, but maybe in retirement I would go that path.

I say "especially sports" because if you really like sports the landscape is just as fragmented as it is for non-sports content, if not more.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:27 pm

I had the perfect setup on a recent VRBO I got.
The owner had Roku boxes with Neflix and Amazon Prime accounts, and a nice HD antennae for the locals. It got me what I wanted when I wanted it on vacation.

At home I currently use Youtube TV. Just because I have kids, I may get the Disney streaming channel, but Netflix is about to get kicked to the curb.
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DL717
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:32 pm

casinterest wrote:
I had the perfect setup on a recent VRBO I got.
The owner had Roku boxes with Neflix and Amazon Prime accounts, and a nice HD antennae for the locals. It got me what I wanted when I wanted it on vacation.

At home I currently use Youtube TV. Just because I have kids, I may get the Disney streaming channel, but Netflix is about to get kicked to the curb.


We use Channels DVR for locals. It allows you to skip commercials. It’s a great product that works with the silicon dust network tuners.
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mham001
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:11 pm

LittleFokker wrote:

Didn't that change like 5 years ago when the big networks switched to digital transmission, so a traditional antenna would no longer work? Either you needed a cable/satellite hookup, or had to get a higher tech antenna (probably $100 or more, not sure) that could pick up the digital signal..


Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip. The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz. The change also allowed them to broadcast 3 or 4 or more channels in the same amount of space which has been a boon for rerun TV. Who knew Jon and Roy in Emergency would achieve cult-like status?
I have noticed but not looked into the recent development of them selling TV bandwidth for other purposes.
 
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:24 pm

mham001 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:

Didn't that change like 5 years ago when the big networks switched to digital transmission, so a traditional antenna would no longer work? Either you needed a cable/satellite hookup, or had to get a higher tech antenna (probably $100 or more, not sure) that could pick up the digital signal..


Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip. The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz. The change also allowed them to broadcast 3 or 4 or more channels in the same amount of space which has been a boon for rerun TV. Who knew Jon and Roy in Emergency would achieve cult-like status?
I have noticed but not looked into the recent development of them selling TV bandwidth for other purposes.


A friend of mine lives about 5 miles from the "Broadcast Hill" tower transmission array.

He picks up the local channels with a $2 antenna from the Dollar Store.

I have my $50 UHF/VHF antenna mounted in the attic. I get most of the local channels, but I'm 20 miles from the towers. And so, large trees nearby do interfere with some weaker channels, particularly on windy days. The Locast service in my area for $5/mo makes up for that. I use Roku. I have the 4K model. I watch some 4K even on YouTube.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:33 pm

mham001 wrote:
Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip.

Not true. Reception still depends on distance from the transmit antenna. There still are path losses to overcome.

The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz.

Wrong again. A digital signal can come and go. You won't see fuzz, but you will see the picture freeze, and/or parts of the screen will fill up with garbage. One channel I really wanted to have was doing exactly this, especially during heavy rain. Once I bought a low noise preamp the picture became solid, and as an added bonus, I got a few more channels that used to be too weak to capture.

The change also allowed them to broadcast 3 or 4 or more channels in the same amount of space which has been a boon for rerun TV. Who knew Jon and Roy in Emergency would achieve cult-like status?

Yep I got to re-watch all the old "Hill Street Blues" / "NYPD Blue" episodes I could stand. I'm not sure they stood the test of time very well. I thought "Night Court" did, which was a pleasant surprise. The writing was a lot better than I remember.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
A friend of mine lives about 5 miles from the "Broadcast Hill" tower transmission array.

He picks up the local channels with a $2 antenna from the Dollar Store.

I have my $50 UHF/VHF antenna mounted in the attic. I get most of the local channels, but I'm 20 miles from the towers. And so, large trees nearby do interfere with some weaker channels, particularly on windy days.

Yep, more evidence that path loss is still a thing. Electromagnetic waves are bunches of electrons vibrating at the same frequency as the transmitted signal, and they lose energy as they travel from transmitter to receiver. If this wasn't so the broadcaster could use a tiny transmitter and the signal would hit everything within line of site. In reality a few ones I just checked run 600-700 kilowatt transmitters.
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mham001
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:34 pm

Revelation wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip.

Not true. Reception still depends on distance from the transmit antenna. There still are path losses to overcome.


Sure, but the point was he didn't need a "digital" antenna. If he was getting reception before digital, that same antenna still works.

The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz.

Wrong again. A digital signal can come and go. You won't see fuzz, but you will see the picture freeze, and/or parts of the screen will fill up with garbage. One channel I really wanted to have was doing exactly this, especially during heavy rain. Once I bought a low noise preamp the picture became solid, and as an added bonus, I got a few more channels that used to be too weak to capture.[/quote]

That fits the definition of "not there" imo. A few blocks of the screen every 5 seconds or so is not watchable whereas an iffy analog signal might still be.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:59 pm

The biggest "scam" is that Americans are overpaying for DSL. My folks back in Europe pay like $10 a month for high speed DSL INCLUDING TV!
I suppose we can thank Congress for allowing Oligopolies.
 
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:17 am

mham001 wrote:
Sure, but the point was he didn't need a "digital" antenna. If he was getting reception before digital, that same antenna still works.

Yes, that's correct, the idea of a "digital" antenna is almost certainly a scam. You may or may not have problems with a traditional antenna if it terminates in 75 ohm twin lead, or if your signal is marginal already. The TV band has shifted in frequency so the old style VHF/UHF antennas aren't very good at capturing the current TV band.

mham001 wrote:
That fits the definition of "not there" imo. A few blocks of the screen every 5 seconds or so is not watchable whereas an iffy analog signal might still be.

OK, fair enough. I've certainly watched a lot of fuzzy analog signals in my day. I remember trying to watch hockey on an 12 inch black and white TV. It was pretty damn hard picking the puck out from all the snow on the screen!

Dieuwer wrote:
The biggest "scam" is that Americans are overpaying for DSL. My folks back in Europe pay like $10 a month for high speed DSL INCLUDING TV!
I suppose we can thank Congress for allowing Oligopolies.

The biggest scam is that Americans are overpaying for health care.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:47 am

Revelation wrote:
The biggest scam is that Americans are overpaying for health care.


And for College and University vs what many get from it.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:27 pm

Good thing I'm not an SEC fan.

Though, this will undoubtedly be resolved by September 8th, anyway. Neither side can afford a lock out come the first NFL Sunday of the season.
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Aesma
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:10 pm

Here a basic unlimited cable or DSL broadband connection is about 20€/month. With TV and unlimited phone to plenty of countries, it's 35-40€/month. With my aforementioned ISP, that is also in the mobile network business, I have a mobile plan (in fact all my family has it), with everything unlimited, phone to plenty of countries, SMS, MMS, and UMTS data. I can download more than 200GB a day with that, I have done it. It costs 16€/month.

I spend a fair amount of money on hard drives, though. Many hard drives.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:23 pm

mham001 wrote:
LittleFokker wrote:

Didn't that change like 5 years ago when the big networks switched to digital transmission, so a traditional antenna would no longer work? Either you needed a cable/satellite hookup, or had to get a higher tech antenna (probably $100 or more, not sure) that could pick up the digital signal..


Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip. The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz. The change also allowed them to broadcast 3 or 4 or more channels in the same amount of space which has been a boon for rerun TV. Who knew Jon and Roy in Emergency would achieve cult-like status?
I have noticed but not looked into the recent development of them selling TV bandwidth for other purposes.


Johnny Carson is on again too! :highfive:


Revelation wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Sure, but the point was he didn't need a "digital" antenna. If he was getting reception before digital, that same antenna still works.

Yes, that's correct, the idea of a "digital" antenna is almost certainly a scam. You may or may not have problems with a traditional antenna if it terminates in 75 ohm twin lead, or if your signal is marginal already. The TV band has shifted in frequency so the old style VHF/UHF antennas aren't very good at capturing the current TV band.


TV has always had propagation issues. It’s why the low man on the totem pole always got to hold the antenna on top of the TV to keep the channel fixed. When it comes to digital tv, it’s more about the transmission power at your location. There is no such thing as an “old style” antenna. Old antennas are no different than the ones you can buy today, if you are looking for a good quality antenna, not these set top joke antennas that have been on the market for decades. The later was just ignored as people went to cable and stopped using antennas altogether.

The “TV Band” hasn’t shifted. There is some channel reallocation taking place to free up channel spectrum for other uses, but UHF is UHF and VHF is VHF. The spectrum being reallocated is the higher end of the UHF channels. Good television reception has always been best using an outdoor VHF/UHF combined system with a rotator and amplification if needed. This has never changed. If your are in close proximity to your local antenna farm, simple antennas have always worked well. If you aren’t, you’ve always had to go outside. The only time DTV reception was an issue was in its first few years when transmission powers were lower so they wouldn’t overwhelm the analog signal. Once analog shut down, the DTV signal strengths were increased covering the intended areas just as analog had before.

Any of these will work. Except for maybe the ones that look like they are new and cool, but actually suck:

https://www.solidsignal.com/c.asp?c=386 ... d-Supplies
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Aesma wrote:
Here a basic unlimited cable or DSL broadband connection is about 20€/month. With TV and unlimited phone to plenty of countries, it's 35-40€/month. With my aforementioned ISP, that is also in the mobile network business, I have a mobile plan (in fact all my family has it), with everything unlimited, phone to plenty of countries, SMS, MMS, and UMTS data. I can download more than 200GB a day with that, I have done it. It costs 16€/month.

I spend a fair amount of money on hard drives, though. Many hard drives.


Mileage may vary depending on where you are. We were paying $50 a month for crap DSL in a major city before we retired. Now we’re 15 miles from a town of 30,000 people and they are dropping fiber right now, literally. The truck is on the street in front of the house. We will have gigabit internet in the next 6 weeks for $40 a month.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:07 pm

Revelation wrote:
A secondary reason is that cable is the primary way most in the US get their internet, which means the CATV outfits can see every web page URL you load, and can sell that data off to advertisers.

Didn't know that. I always thinked that the internet, in the US, travelled through landline phone lines, like here.
Or is cable TV that travels through phone lines?
We here have (had) the cable radio transmission, but don't know if it exists anymore. One single radio station, that could be heard through only one cable radio receiver, and it travelled through phone lines. Very vintage. But it is disappearing thanks to optic fiber. Or it has already disappeared.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:45 pm

FatCat wrote:
Revelation wrote:
A secondary reason is that cable is the primary way most in the US get their internet, which means the CATV outfits can see every web page URL you load, and can sell that data off to advertisers.

Didn't know that. I always thinked that the internet, in the US, travelled through landline phone lines, like here.
Or is cable TV that travels through phone lines?
We here have (had) the cable radio transmission, but don't know if it exists anymore. One single radio station, that could be heard through only one cable radio receiver, and it travelled through phone lines. Very vintage. But it is disappearing thanks to optic fiber. Or it has already disappeared.

Large parts of the US were wired for cable TV using co-axial 75 ohm copper cable as opposed to twisted pair telephone lines.

I recall it coming to my home town in the early 1970s amid much rejoicing.

The cable TV companies were largely granted monopolies in exchange for investing in running all the cables and building out the rest of their infrastructure.

This gave them enormous profits once the early build out was paid for, and put them in the right position to invest in internet technology as it came along in the 90s.

New fiber entrants have to compete against this entrenched competitor with lots of resources, in particular the kind needed to create an advantage for themselves in the halls of government.

Modern cable systems use optical fiber from their central offices to boxes close to the customer, and still run on copper coax for what the industry calls "the last mile".

They want no part of having to go in to each house and swap out grandma's cable tv box.

In theory 5G will provide enough bandwidth to convince people to drop cable internet.

In reality the same corporate giants will leverage their positions to keep the total customer spend as high as possible and keep as much of it for themselves as possible.

BTW some cable TV operators do transmit the entire FM radio spectrum on their cable TV plants, and the end users just use a suitable antenna adapter to plug that in to their radios.

As you say though, these days the internet can be used for streaming your favorite FM station so the option is going out of favor.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:40 am

Revelation wrote:
FatCat wrote:
Revelation wrote:
A secondary reason is that cable is the primary way most in the US get their internet, which means the CATV outfits can see every web page URL you load, and can sell that data off to advertisers.

Didn't know that. I always thinked that the internet, in the US, travelled through landline phone lines, like here.
Or is cable TV that travels through phone lines?
We here have (had) the cable radio transmission, but don't know if it exists anymore. One single radio station, that could be heard through only one cable radio receiver, and it travelled through phone lines. Very vintage. But it is disappearing thanks to optic fiber. Or it has already disappeared.

Large parts of the US were wired for cable TV using co-axial 75 ohm copper cable as opposed to twisted pair telephone lines.

I recall it coming to my home town in the early 1970s amid much rejoicing.

The cable TV companies were largely granted monopolies in exchange for investing in running all the cables and building out the rest of their infrastructure.

This gave them enormous profits once the early build out was paid for, and put them in the right position to invest in internet technology as it came along in the 90s.

New fiber entrants have to compete against this entrenched competitor with lots of resources, in particular the kind needed to create an advantage for themselves in the halls of government.

Modern cable systems use optical fiber from their central offices to boxes close to the customer, and still run on copper coax for what the industry calls "the last mile".

They want no part of having to go in to each house and swap out grandma's cable tv box.

In theory 5G will provide enough bandwidth to convince people to drop cable internet.

In reality the same corporate giants will leverage their positions to keep the total customer spend as high as possible and keep as much of it for themselves as possible.

BTW some cable TV operators do transmit the entire FM radio spectrum on their cable TV plants, and the end users just use a suitable antenna adapter to plug that in to their radios.

As you say though, these days the internet can be used for streaming your favorite FM station so the option is going out of favor.

Thanks for the explanation!
We never had cable tv down here btw.
Satellite dishes are very common and quite cheap though. I do have it, subscribet to Sky. They broadcast through Hotbird satellites in HD quality - 4k also, and the decoder also works as a download platform for "on demand" programs. But satellite dishes weren't common and cheap until mid-90s IIRC. Talking about the 70s... funny to know that here the colour TV was introduced only in late 70s. 1978 IIRC. the technlogy was available - well, in the US you had colour TV since the 1960s, so nothing new. Funny to know why it was introduced with such a delay: many families bought their home TVs with a bank loan. BTW they were B/W. So the fear was that if introduced too early - I correct myself - together with other Countries - people would have simply stopped paying loan charges every months...
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:20 am

FatCat wrote:
Thanks for the explanation!
We never had cable tv down here btw.
Satellite dishes are very common and quite cheap though. I do have it, subscribet to Sky. They broadcast through Hotbird satellites in HD quality - 4k also, and the decoder also works as a download platform for "on demand" programs. But satellite dishes weren't common and cheap until mid-90s IIRC. Talking about the 70s... funny to know that here the colour TV was introduced only in late 70s. 1978 IIRC. the technlogy was available - well, in the US you had colour TV since the 1960s, so nothing new. Funny to know why it was introduced with such a delay: many families bought their home TVs with a bank loan. BTW they were B/W. So the fear was that if introduced too early - I correct myself - together with other Countries - people would have simply stopped paying loan charges every months...

Very interesting.

I was too young to understand the dynamics of the transition from B/W to color TV, but B/W TVs were still common throughout the 70s usually as second TVs.

I think it was only mid 80s where color was reduced in cost to the point that B/W slowly died off.

It's funny how TVs used to be such big status symbols, now they are just assumed to be a part of most people's possessions.

Satellite TV is dying in the US largely being bypassed in favor of internet streaming due to the high cost of satellites.

ATT bought DirecTV and from what I read they have decided to not fund any more satellites, so as the existing ones fail they will not be replaced.

ATT also bought TimeWarner so they have a sizeable investment in good old terrestrial cable TV to fall back on.

ATT also raised DirecTV prices to the point where they are seeing large drops in subscriptions.

It appears that ATT bought DirecTV mainly to kill off a competitor.

Dish Network is still fighting the fight, but is also losing subscribers in big numbers.
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:39 am

mham001 wrote:
Nope, it's all a sham, any old rabbit ears will pick up a signal, even a paper clip. The difference is a digital signal is either there - or not, no fuzz. The change also allowed them to broadcast 3 or 4 or more channels in the same amount of space which has been a boon for rerun TV. Who knew Jon and Roy in Emergency would achieve cult-like status?
I have noticed but not looked into the recent development of them selling TV bandwidth for other purposes.


We cut the cord a few years ago, and started looking at OTA channels again. I was stunned at how many shows were on. It was definitely a happy surprise.
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FatCat
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:12 am

Revelation wrote:
Very interesting.

I was too young to understand the dynamics of the transition from B/W to color TV, but B/W TVs were still common throughout the 70s usually as second TVs.

I think it was only mid 80s where color was reduced in cost to the point that B/W slowly died off.

It's funny how TVs used to be such big status symbols, now they are just assumed to be a part of most people's possessions.

Satellite TV is dying in the US largely being bypassed in favor of internet streaming due to the high cost of satellites.

ATT bought DirecTV and from what I read they have decided to not fund any more satellites, so as the existing ones fail they will not be replaced.

ATT also bought TimeWarner so they have a sizeable investment in good old terrestrial cable TV to fall back on.

ATT also raised DirecTV prices to the point where they are seeing large drops in subscriptions.

It appears that ATT bought DirecTV mainly to kill off a competitor.

Dish Network is still fighting the fight, but is also losing subscribers in big numbers.


I have also a "feral" satellite decoder. I use it very rarely, having the NES mini connected to his HDMI port.
But boy o boy are strange channels on that thing.
Mainly arab-speaking channels. UAE, Yemen, Qatar, the whole ME. To a less number, also Far Eastern channels. 3 or 4 Japanese, some Chinese, Thailandese, and the public TV of Myanmar.
No American (Continent) channel. That's I suppose because they are irradiated from another Satellite constellation - IIRC mine's the Hotbird.
I remember when I was a kid one of my friend's father having a moving dish. It was HUGE and I loved standing near it and watching it moving - it was in the garden. With that thing he could see like, a billion channels.

Don't know if this will happen also in the US or other parts of the World, but we do not have any analogic-radio-transmitted TV signal anymore. Everything's on DVB-T now, since 2011 or 2013. And next year they will change the standard so everyone has to buy another decoder or change the TV.
Also we will lose FM radio transmissions. Everything will move on DAB. That's a pity because I really like old radios. Grundig Satellite & Co., if you know what I mean...
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Re: AT&T cancels CBS programming due to contractual dispute -- millions of viewers nationwide lose access

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:22 pm

FatCat wrote:
I have also a "feral" satellite decoder. I use it very rarely, having the NES mini connected to his HDMI port.
But boy o boy are strange channels on that thing.
Mainly arab-speaking channels. UAE, Yemen, Qatar, the whole ME. To a less number, also Far Eastern channels. 3 or 4 Japanese, some Chinese, Thailandese, and the public TV of Myanmar.
No American (Continent) channel. That's I suppose because they are irradiated from another Satellite constellation - IIRC mine's the Hotbird.
I remember when I was a kid one of my friend's father having a moving dish. It was HUGE and I loved standing near it and watching it moving - it was in the garden. With that thing he could see like, a billion channels.

Don't know if this will happen also in the US or other parts of the World, but we do not have any analogic-radio-transmitted TV signal anymore. Everything's on DVB-T now, since 2011 or 2013. And next year they will change the standard so everyone has to buy another decoder or change the TV.
Also we will lose FM radio transmissions. Everything will move on DAB. That's a pity because I really like old radios. Grundig Satellite & Co., if you know what I mean...

Interesting about checking out all the different offerings on a satellite.

I certainly was fascinated as a kid when a terrestrial TV station would come in from hundreds of miles away, or I'd run in to a radio station a thousand miles away I never heard of before.

It was one of the reasons I went on to get a ham radio license, which in turn is one reason I went to college to study electrical engineering.

It's really hard to chart the future of all these older forms of media.

In the US, AM/FM radio is almost unlistenable to me, plagued by synthetic "DJs" and ads I don't want to listen to.

Capitalism has done what it always ends up doing, diluting a product to the point they've milked every cent of profit they can out of it, and leaving behind the empty husks for others to clean up.

It seems like Europe is more aggressive about repurposing frequency bands.

Some of the most popular VHF/UHF ham radio bands are under threat.

I too am a Grundig Satellite fan, I have two units in my house, one inherited from my late father.

Spent many an hour listening to BBC World Service rebroadcast on short wave from the Caribbean.

As above, sadly I no longer favor radio listening at all.

I now have an Amazon Echo in each room of my house, configured as one group to play the same content, so I can go room to room and hear the same music everywhere.

It's really pleasant to just think of any possible song or album, speak out a command to play it, and hear it everywhere in my house, all with no advertisements.

All in all the startup costs were akin to what we used to pay for a 'stereo' back in the day, and I already carry Prime membership so the content is 'free'.

Well worth the cost and effort to get it set up, IMO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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