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Mortyman
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Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:51 pm

Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9c6w-eoxHI


No reason to spend so much money
 
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casinterest
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:12 pm

Is this based on articles from the 50's . 60's ,70's, 80's, 90's. 00's , 10's ?
 
anrec80
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:40 am

Nothing new. But they just can’t even start to right-size the US military.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:12 am

anrec80 wrote:
Nothing new. But they just can’t even start to right-size the US military.


So you think the US military is too big and take up too much of the US resources?
 
94717
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:53 am

Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:34 am

olle wrote:
Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.


Pols have no time to consider Medicare for all when there are 30k defense jobs in GA and 15k defense jobs in SC and CO to protect. That has always been key to getting the public to buy into the insanity.
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
olle wrote:
Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.


Pols have no time to consider Medicare for all when there are 30k defense jobs in GA and 15k defense jobs in SC and CO to protect. That has always been key to getting the public to buy into the insanity.


Yes, how dare we put people to work so that they can provide for their families instead of relying on government handouts. If you think government controlled health care is a great idea, become a military veteran and use the VA for your health care needs. I have the option to use the VA, I’ll keep my own health insurance thank you very much.

As for the OP, I’m not going to debate that there is a lot of waste in the DOD. Every year every unit goes on a spending spree near the end of the fiscal year so that they can ensure they have the same budget next year. If you want to see a change, this would be the first place that I would look. I’d also look at the politicians that insist on buying gear from their districts, that the military doesn’t want, just to keep the military contractors happy. The DOD is a jobs program, how much does it bring in in taxes (both at the federal and state level).
 
94717
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:02 am

So why dont make dod more efficient, go fron 4% of gdp to 2.5% of gdp and finance a general health care system?

Usa spend today 12-13% of gdp for health care system covering 85% of the population.

Sweden as example while different EU nations works a little bit different spends 8% of gdp for 100% of the population.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:27 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
Every year every unit goes on a spending spree near the end of the fiscal year so that they can ensure they have the same budget next year.
Easy solution to that. The next military budget should be based on the average spend of the first 11 months, multiplied by 12 to get a sustainable annual operating budget. Set aside, say, 10% of the money saved as a contigency fund for truly unforseeable purchases that can only be made after peer review. The remaining 90% can be cut. Obviously, do not announce this in advance, to avoid pushing the spending spree forward.

And while you're at it, to save even more money, do the same at every other branch of government.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:56 pm

olle wrote:
Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.


The US spends around 3,2% of its GDP on defense, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... penditures, I agree that it would be better spend on health care, the infrastructure of education. Mr. Putin's regime would also be better of to spend it on its people instead of the military, 3,9% of its GDP is even more.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:52 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
olle wrote:
Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.


Pols have no time to consider Medicare for all when there are 30k defense jobs in GA and 15k defense jobs in SC and CO to protect. That has always been key to getting the public to buy into the insanity.


Yes, how dare we put people to work so that they can provide for their families instead of relying on government handouts. If you think government controlled health care is a great idea, become a military veteran and use the VA for your health care needs. I have the option to use the VA, I’ll keep my own health insurance thank you very much.

As for the OP, I’m not going to debate that there is a lot of waste in the DOD. Every year every unit goes on a spending spree near the end of the fiscal year so that they can ensure they have the same budget next year. If you want to see a change, this would be the first place that I would look. I’d also look at the politicians that insist on buying gear from their districts, that the military doesn’t want, just to keep the military contractors happy. The DOD is a jobs program, how much does it bring in in taxes (both at the federal and state level).


Oh the humanity! So it’s the government’s responsibility to keep people off welfare by maintaining pork-barrel defense contracts? That’s what you just suggested.
 
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seb146
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:43 pm

olle wrote:
So why dont make dod more efficient, go fron 4% of gdp to 2.5% of gdp and finance a general health care system?

Usa spend today 12-13% of gdp for health care system covering 85% of the population.

Sweden as example while different EU nations works a little bit different spends 8% of gdp for 100% of the population.


Republicans have been conditioned to fly into unhinged ravings when we talk about reducing the cost of health care in the United States. That is socialism or communism or marxism or one of those -isms that is terrible and un-American and un-patriotic and how dare we embrace socialism because.... and then they start frothing at the mouth. I still don't know why we can not have affordable health care. But, like Pavlov's dogs, I am sure any number of them will use some crazy reason why. Most likely the explanation will involve Hillary and/or Obama......
 
petertenthije
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:52 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
Yes, how dare we put people to work so that they can provide for their families instead of relying on government handouts.
Let's take the Abrams tank as an example. This is a weapons system that is still being build, even though the pentagon has repeatedly mentioned they do not need new ones. It's being build purely to preserve jobs, thus keeping politicians safe.

It's no doubt an extreme point of view I am going to propose, but how about you close the whole operation. The government will be paying unemployment benefits, but that's likely cheaper then paying for the new tanks. Also, it's for a limited period only. In part because unemployment benefits have an expiry date, but also because the people fired are experienced workers likely to find new jobs.

Not only does this save money on the pentagon procurement budget, but also does it save money on storing and arguably useless equipment.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:08 pm

Why don't we merge the VA in to the DOD? It will eliminate a whole unit of government and will rely on the bloated military budget. The remaining funds for the former VA can pay down national debt, go to education, healthcare, homeless, etc...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:46 pm

seb146 wrote:
olle wrote:
So why dont make dod more efficient, go fron 4% of gdp to 2.5% of gdp and finance a general health care system?

Usa spend today 12-13% of gdp for health care system covering 85% of the population.

Sweden as example while different EU nations works a little bit different spends 8% of gdp for 100% of the population.


Republicans have been conditioned to fly into unhinged ravings when we talk about reducing the cost of health care in the United States. That is socialism or communism or marxism or one of those -isms that is terrible and un-American and un-patriotic and how dare we embrace socialism because.... and then they start frothing at the mouth. I still don't know why we can not have affordable health care. But, like Pavlov's dogs, I am sure any number of them will use some crazy reason why. Most likely the explanation will involve Hillary and/or Obama......


I’d like to see Democrats raving when you suggest taking away private health insurance (that mostly has good reviews and it’s popular the reason Obama promised not to take it away); attack the reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and finally attack the idea we all can get any treatment we want. My state cannot find primary care physicians and general surgeons due to RomneyCare paying so little. My doc just retired and there’s no plan for replacement. Medicine is very expensive and, due to the cockamamie third party payment system, the consumer (that’s you and me) have no idea of how expensive it is. Make costs more transparent and service more competitive.

GF
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:47 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Why don't we merge the VA in to the DOD? It will eliminate a whole unit of government and will rely on the bloated military budget. The remaining funds for the former VA can pay down national debt, go to education, healthcare, homeless, etc...


That’s why it was separated, VA had to compete with planes and warships. It lost. The VA costs about $200 billion, so just add that to the present DoD budget. Moving it to DOD won’t save money.
 
anrec80
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So you think the US military is too big and take up too much of the US resources?


Absolutely. It’s at least 3x its right size. The right size I define as enough to provide defense (both regular and strategic) of the American territory. Vast and costly network of overseas deployments is not necessary and it’s time to eliminate it.

USA spends on defense nearly as much as the rest of the world combined together. USD 800B budget with a nearly trillion deficit - this is not sustainable obviously. It’s past due to be scaled back.
 
anrec80
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:18 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
My state cannot find primary care physicians and general surgeons due to RomneyCare paying so little. My doc just retired and there’s no plan for replacement. Medicine is very expensive and, due to the cockamamie third party payment system, the consumer (that’s you and me) have no idea of how expensive it is.

GF


So familiar Canadian problems, where you can wait for a year for a specialist appointment.
 
anrec80
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Oh the humanity! So it’s the government’s responsibility to keep people off welfare by maintaining pork-barrel defense contracts? That’s what you just suggested.


Yepp, there is that here.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:31 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Why don't we merge the VA in to the DOD? It will eliminate a whole unit of government and will rely on the bloated military budget. The remaining funds for the former VA can pay down national debt, go to education, healthcare, homeless, etc...


That’s why it was separated, VA had to compete with planes and warships. It lost. The VA costs about $200 billion, so just add that to the present DoD budget. Moving it to DOD won’t save money.

You make a good point in regards to being up against shiny new planes and war ships, but I was thinking of the same concept of the Joint Bases that came along during the post Cold War draw down and consolidation.
 
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:45 pm

petertenthije wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Yes, how dare we put people to work so that they can provide for their families instead of relying on government handouts.
Let's take the Abrams tank as an example. This is a weapons system that is still being build, even though the pentagon has repeatedly mentioned they do not need new ones. It's being build purely to preserve jobs, thus keeping politicians safe.

It's no doubt an extreme point of view I am going to propose, but how about you close the whole operation. The government will be paying unemployment benefits, but that's likely cheaper then paying for the new tanks. Also, it's for a limited period only. In part because unemployment benefits have an expiry date, but also because the people fired are experienced workers likely to find new jobs.

Not only does this save money on the pentagon procurement budget, but also does it save money on storing and arguably useless equipment.


They have over 6000 Abrams now, years after the US Army said it did not need any more of them. They can only use, including allowing for training, battle damage/loss replacements etc, probably not much more than half that number. Large numbers just stored and not in the stored in case we need them sense, rather stored to get them out of the way.
Remember when in the 1980's and 90's the Chinese called their new freer market policies, 'Socialism With Chinese Characteristics', this is one example of 'Socialism With American Characteristics'.
 
texdravid
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:29 pm

I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve
 
anrec80
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:47 pm

texdravid wrote:
I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve


Why do you need to waste expenditures? There's huge debt to be paid down.
 
johns624
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:58 pm

The problem with entirely closing down the Abrams line, is that is the only repository we have of tank manufacturing. The main plant at the Tank Arsenal in Warren, MI was closed and sold off years ago. All that was saved was the much smaller plant in Lima, OH, since they made the Chobham armor. I believe much of their work nowadays is not new production but using older stored hulls and upgrading them to the new standards.
I would love for the US to lower our defense spending to 2.5% GNP. We can do that as soon as many other countries raise theirs to at least 2%. That's 2% real spending, not including military pensions.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:05 pm

petertenthije wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Yes, how dare we put people to work so that they can provide for their families instead of relying on government handouts.
Let's take the Abrams tank as an example. This is a weapons system that is still being build, even though the pentagon has repeatedly mentioned they do not need new ones. It's being build purely to preserve jobs, thus keeping politicians safe.



That is not entirely accurate, production of the M1 and M1-A1 ended in 1993 with 3273 M1's and 4800 M1-A1's were produced (for US use), these have been on a constant cycle of reconditioning through the Lima Army Tank plant since then, they have also been upgraded as needed, with approx.1400 being made to the M1-A2 standard.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:40 pm

There are approximately 6000 abrams in US military service (2016 figures, https://www.military.com/daily-news/201 ... tanks.html)

There are apprixmately 2000 abrams in storage. Most of them still in their original green camo, so unlikely to have been used in actual combat as these tanks would have had sand camo. (undated article, but at least 2017 going from photo attributions, https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sierra-army-depot)

Why continue making them, when a third of them are in storage already! That’s the kind of waste that’s being discussed.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:15 pm

petertenthije wrote:

Why continue making them, when a third of them are in storage already! That’s the kind of waste that’s being discussed.


Because, as I said, they are not be produced, they are however being recycled and upgraded and just to be clear, i'm not arguing your point about there being waste in the military.

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/m1_abrams.htm
 
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seb146
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:39 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
olle wrote:
So why dont make dod more efficient, go fron 4% of gdp to 2.5% of gdp and finance a general health care system?

Usa spend today 12-13% of gdp for health care system covering 85% of the population.

Sweden as example while different EU nations works a little bit different spends 8% of gdp for 100% of the population.


Republicans have been conditioned to fly into unhinged ravings when we talk about reducing the cost of health care in the United States. That is socialism or communism or marxism or one of those -isms that is terrible and un-American and un-patriotic and how dare we embrace socialism because.... and then they start frothing at the mouth. I still don't know why we can not have affordable health care. But, like Pavlov's dogs, I am sure any number of them will use some crazy reason why. Most likely the explanation will involve Hillary and/or Obama......


I’d like to see Democrats raving when you suggest taking away private health insurance (that mostly has good reviews and it’s popular the reason Obama promised not to take it away); attack the reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and finally attack the idea we all can get any treatment we want. My state cannot find primary care physicians and general surgeons due to RomneyCare paying so little. My doc just retired and there’s no plan for replacement. Medicine is very expensive and, due to the cockamamie third party payment system, the consumer (that’s you and me) have no idea of how expensive it is. Make costs more transparent and service more competitive.

GF


No one says taking away private health insurance but Republicans who want to scare low information voters. Like the cries and screams of socialism when we talk about affordable health care. It does not exist except as a Republican talking point to scare people who don't understand.

Making costs transparent will not reduce costs at all. Just like tort reform will not do anything to the end cost to us for health care. Heath care companies are not in it to make people better or keep people well. They are in it to turn a profit. It is not good for the bottom line to help people afford their medications or go to the doctor twice a year.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Republicans have been conditioned to fly into unhinged ravings when we talk about reducing the cost of health care in the United States. That is socialism or communism or marxism or one of those -isms that is terrible and un-American and un-patriotic and how dare we embrace socialism because.... and then they start frothing at the mouth. I still don't know why we can not have affordable health care. But, like Pavlov's dogs, I am sure any number of them will use some crazy reason why. Most likely the explanation will involve Hillary and/or Obama......


I’d like to see Democrats raving when you suggest taking away private health insurance (that mostly has good reviews and it’s popular the reason Obama promised not to take it away); attack the reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and finally attack the idea we all can get any treatment we want. My state cannot find primary care physicians and general surgeons due to RomneyCare paying so little. My doc just retired and there’s no plan for replacement. Medicine is very expensive and, due to the cockamamie third party payment system, the consumer (that’s you and me) have no idea of how expensive it is. Make costs more transparent and service more competitive.

GF


Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.

No one says taking away private health insurance but Republicans who want to scare low information voters. Like the cries and screams of socialism when we talk about affordable health care. It does not exist except as a Republican talking point to scare people who don't understand.

Making costs transparent will not reduce costs at all. Just like tort reform will not do anything to the end cost to us for health care. Heath care companies are not in it to make people better or keep people well. They are in it to turn a profit. It is not good for the bottom line to help people afford their medications or go to the doctor twice a year.


Absolute silliness on stilts and steroids!

Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.


Food producers are in it for profit, is their pricing nearly as obscure as doctors? Do you not know the price of things you purchase from the evil profit-seeking suppliers?
 
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stl07
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:40 am

petertenthije wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
Every year every unit goes on a spending spree near the end of the fiscal year so that they can ensure they have the same budget next year.
Easy solution to that. The next military budget should be based on the average spend of the first 11 months, multiplied by 12 to get a sustainable annual operating budget. Set aside, say, 10% of the money saved as a contigency fund for truly unforseeable purchases that can only be made after peer review. The remaining 90% can be cut. Obviously, do not announce this in advance, to avoid pushing the spending spree forward.

And while you're at it, to save even more money, do the same at every other branch of government.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
Do you mind running for office? You already have my vote.
 
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stl07
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:47 am

texdravid wrote:
I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve

Now that's an interesting definition of leftism :stirthepot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaharia_family

In all seriousness though, I never found Zakaria to be a far-leftist, at least the times I've watched his show (like 3 times). I found him to be opinionated but I didn't think he had a political bias. Now that said, I have only watched a very limited amount of his show so very well could be wrong.

Also, why do you think that the money saved would have to go to illegals, it could go to the debt or taxes could even be lowered.
 
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seb146
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:27 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I’d like to see Democrats raving when you suggest taking away private health insurance (that mostly has good reviews and it’s popular the reason Obama promised not to take it away); attack the reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and finally attack the idea we all can get any treatment we want. My state cannot find primary care physicians and general surgeons due to RomneyCare paying so little. My doc just retired and there’s no plan for replacement. Medicine is very expensive and, due to the cockamamie third party payment system, the consumer (that’s you and me) have no idea of how expensive it is. Make costs more transparent and service more competitive.

GF


Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.

No one says taking away private health insurance but Republicans who want to scare low information voters. Like the cries and screams of socialism when we talk about affordable health care. It does not exist except as a Republican talking point to scare people who don't understand.

Making costs transparent will not reduce costs at all. Just like tort reform will not do anything to the end cost to us for health care. Heath care companies are not in it to make people better or keep people well. They are in it to turn a profit. It is not good for the bottom line to help people afford their medications or go to the doctor twice a year.


Absolute silliness on stilts and steroids!

Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.


Food producers are in it for profit, is their pricing nearly as obscure as doctors? Do you not know the price of things you purchase from the evil profit-seeking suppliers?


Why is my health now for-profit? Why is someone with diabetes now not worth it? Republicans love to go on about how we are a Christian nation but this proves otherwise.

Where EXACTLY does Bernie say he wants to get rid of for-profit medical insurance? I have not heard that from anyone except the right. Please post links.

As far as "evil profit seeking suppliers" no one is saying that at all but the right. Again. And, again, no one is suggesting getting rid of corporations. The closest that right wing wet dream comes is progressive politicians daring to suggest that workers in the store (cashiers, shockers, etc.) get profit sharing or, at the very least, a raise in pay for their help in boosting companies profits. Not just the share holders and board of directors.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:28 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
Every year every unit goes on a spending spree near the end of the fiscal year so that they can ensure they have the same budget next year. If you want to see a change, this would be the first place that I would look.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


petertenthije wrote:
Easy solution to that. The next military budget should be based on the average spend of the first 11 months, multiplied by 12 to get a sustainable annual operating budget.

The budget isn't some elusive secret, the minute they pass ^ is the minute they do the all the wasteful spending on the 11th month instead of the 12th.

You have to incentive saving, you can't just game it. That's what drives me nuts about government and military spending debates. It's a 2 sided false dichotomy... Either cut and reduce or pump more money and grow. Absolutely no one is saying we should be more efficient, that is something Democrats, Republicans, anyone should agree on.

The wasteful spending that goes on is sickening. You don't even know a tenth of it
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:56 am

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.

No one says taking away private health insurance but Republicans who want to scare low information voters. Like the cries and screams of socialism when we talk about affordable health care. It does not exist except as a Republican talking point to scare people who don't understand.

Making costs transparent will not reduce costs at all. Just like tort reform will not do anything to the end cost to us for health care. Heath care companies are not in it to make people better or keep people well. They are in it to turn a profit. It is not good for the bottom line to help people afford their medications or go to the doctor twice a year.


Absolute silliness on stilts and steroids!

Isn’t Bernie’s Medicare for All basically replacing private insurance? Medicare shire replaced my private insurance regrettably.


Food producers are in it for profit, is their pricing nearly as obscure as doctors? Do you not know the price of things you purchase from the evil profit-seeking suppliers?


Why is my health now for-profit? Why is someone with diabetes now not worth it? Republicans love to go on about how we are a Christian nation but this proves otherwise.

Where EXACTLY does Bernie say he wants to get rid of for-profit medical insurance? I have not heard that from anyone except the right. Please post links.

As far as "evil profit seeking suppliers" no one is saying that at all but the right. Again. And, again, no one is suggesting getting rid of corporations. The closest that right wing wet dream comes is progressive politicians daring to suggest that workers in the store (cashiers, shockers, etc.) get profit sharing or, at the very least, a raise in pay for their help in boosting companies profits. Not just the share holders and board of directors.


Here’s the NYT synopsis on Sanders Care

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/politics/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all.html

Here’s the NYT synopsis on Sanders Care

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/politics/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all.html


Medicine is like any good or service—scarce in the economic meaning. It isn’t limitless, so it will be rationed. You seem to believe everyone can have all the medical services needed without regard to cost.

I never said the Left wants to get rid of corporations. Your position is that businesses involved in medicine hide the true costs to make profits. If that’s your “business model”; how is it that no other business works that way. I can shop for all manner of goods by price, but medicine is off limits?
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14425
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:42 pm

texdravid wrote:
I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve


Zakaria is an overt US hater. He has been trying to turn the US into Europe ever since he came here. Just another Zealot who doesn't believe in any discussion just fear mongering and propaganda.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8707
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:16 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Easy solution to that. The next military budget should be based on the average spend of the first 11 months, multiplied by 12 to get a sustainable annual operating budget. Set aside, say, 10% of the money saved as a contigency fund for truly unforseeable purchases that can only be made after peer review. The remaining 90% can be cut. Obviously, do not announce this in advance, to avoid pushing the spending spree forward.

And while you're at it, to save even more money, do the same at every other branch of government.

And that was what sequestration attempted to do: put official caps at every cabinet agency. The problem is that it became an election issue: to put caps on Defense was to stand against the troops so politicians sought ways to increase Defense budget while keeping all other agencies at the same level (or cut their budgets to allocate the funds to Defense).

Regarding the whole set the operating budget at first 11 months, the problem with that is that the branches of the military will not stand to have budget cuts. What you'll find is military units blowing through their allocated funds just to ensure they continue to have decent amounts. You need a hard number and tell the agency that unless it can thoroughly justify an increase, every budget will remain at the same level.

The DoD is a prime example of how throwing money at something doesn't make it better or more efficient. When the agency is being allocated 3/4 of a billion (and somehow it's not enough), you know something has gone wrong somewhere.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:23 pm

It is out of control. The social program spending is even more out of control.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15968
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:30 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve


Zakaria is an overt US hater. He has been trying to turn the US into Europe ever since he came here. Just another Zealot who doesn't believe in any discussion just fear mongering and propaganda.


Guess you missed his excellent coverage of the D-Day anniversary. He’s a historian and economic analyst - if you don’t like the facts, change the channel. Either way his impact on discourse and discussion is far greater than yours.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8707
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Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:38 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Guess you missed his excellent coverage of the D-Day anniversary. He’s a historian and economic analyst - if you don’t like the facts, change the channel. Either way his impact on discourse and discussion is far greater than yours.

Time to learn some conservative jargon*:

Things with a notorious liberal bias = Facts.

Inconvenient facts = Lies.

Convenient lies = Politics.

*Courtesy of Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 444
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:53 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve


Zakaria is an overt US hater. He has been trying to turn the US into Europe ever since he came here. Just another Zealot who doesn't believe in any discussion just fear mongering and propaganda.


The horror of universal healthcare eh. Nobody goes bankrupt here due to healthcare costs.
6 out of the top 10 countries with the highest living standards in the world are here. Hardly any deaths from guns.

Sometimes there is nothing wrong with looking at what other countries do right, take it, and model it for your own country. It doesn't take anything away from your country, doesn't make it less American. And certainly doesn't make it Socialist. Since there are no Socialist countries in Europe.

When something is broken you fix it, who gives a crap where the idea came from.

So many labels. So many opinions not based on facts.


By the way, would be really nice of you to please stop Trump, Bannon and Facebook from trying to subvert European Democracies (e.g UK, Sweden).
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11475
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
texdravid wrote:
I summarily dismiss anything Zaharia says.
He’s an arrogant CNN leftist.

I’d rather waste expenditures on the military than on illegal aliens and their health care that they don’t deserve


Zakaria is an overt US hater. He has been trying to turn the US into Europe ever since he came here. Just another Zealot who doesn't believe in any discussion just fear mongering and propaganda.


Guess you missed his excellent coverage of the D-Day anniversary. He’s a historian and economic analyst - if you don’t like the facts, change the channel. Either way his impact on discourse and discussion is far greater than yours.

I suspect the people making such statements can't change the channel to avoid him as they don't actually watch his show. I don't. But I don't watch any news really anymore, I read online, and in fact I avoid any video option online (I am specifically NOT including obvious video of a real situation, just shows). Why does anyone watch that stuff? On Fox or on MSNBC or whatever, the video stuff is such poor presentation of actual information. I read. I read to stay informed. And if it is information from a hosted show on Fox, CNN, BBC, whoever, I search for the written version, that way the stupid "passion and bias" is reduced and I get a more neutral presentation. People who get their information from video, from a hosted show or talking heads are very uninformed people. Read for a more unbiased presentation, a more neutral voice. Anyone who only hears it from their "preferred voice" or host is low information.

As to our defense budget, yes we spend too much as a nation on "defense" however fortunately our defense industry is wholly indigenous and almost all of that spending is internal and generates its own value and wealth etc. (Yes the industry is too ingrained and then there is the whole "military industrial complex" thing which is not good in and of itself). There is way too much waste and way too much cronyism and way too much paying political favors (vote for our project and we'll create X number of jobs in YOUR district) but the industry creates a lot of wealth and we sell a lot to other nations. So we can afford the 6% more than any other nation in the world.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slider
Posts: 7751
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:14 pm

olle wrote:
Considering that USA have too big part of its population in poverty, without acces to quality education and health care. I do consider that USA forces is too big.

EU forces was downsized too fast after Cold War. But on the other hand if mr Putin had spent his oil money on improving the situation for his people instead of military Eu did not have any threat in its close neighbour hood.

I am convinced that USA could spend around 2% of its gdp and still have the largest economy on earth rather then today's 4-5%.



Maybe the EU could provide some funding for our social services in need then, since the USA has largely funded and provided for continental Europe's protection by and large since the war ended.

European countries were able to enact all kinds of social welfare safety nets and increase socialistic populism in no small means because they didn't have to provide for their own defense.
 
NoTime
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:21 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:22 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Sometimes there is nothing wrong with looking at what other countries do right, take it, and model it for your own country.


Amen. Especially when it comes to issues like immigration.
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: Zakaria: America's defense budget is out of control

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:38 pm

Amen. Especially when it comes to issues like immigration.


Agree, we should do what the eastern schengen border countries did to curb immigration almost overnight. Build a double razor wire fence and stage the military with long guns on it.

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