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jetwet1
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US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 pm

You can't make this up, a company that supported President Trumps tariffs on foreign steel is suing the US government for relief from said tariffs, because, well, it relies on imported raw steel to do business.....It seems the company thought it was going to get a waiver for the imported steel....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... for-relief
 
Ken777
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:57 am

US companies got taken for a ride by the Trump Tariffs. They were simply tax increases paid for the original importers and passed on to the consonsumers, with everyone in between getting hit for their share.

A simple tax increase that everyone will be paying, but only a few will connect the price increase to Trump's Tariffs.

Pity
 
tommy1808
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:03 am

Ken777 wrote:
A simple tax increase that everyone will be paying, but only a few will connect the price increase to Trump's Tariffs.


There are few gas pumps in Germany that don´t have a sticker reminding anyone how much taxes is included in each liter.

Companies could just put such stickers on their products....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dutchy
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:51 am

jetwet1 wrote:
You can't make this up, a company that supported President Trumps tariffs on foreign steel is suing the US government for relief from said tariffs, because, well, it relies on imported raw steel to do business.....It seems the company thought it was going to get a waiver for the imported steel....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... for-relief


Oh boy, just about everyone is realizing that things aren't simple and everything is interconnected, do one thing and it can cause a chain reaction.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:36 am

Just look at what happened to the stock market after Trump announced a new salvo of tariffs yesterday...

And he still claims China is paying.

It's one thing to have such a policy, but at least own it. There is always the possibility he doesn't understand what he's doing, of course.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:11 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
You can't make this up, a company that supported President Trumps tariffs on foreign steel is suing the US government for relief from said tariffs, because, well, it relies on imported raw steel to do business.....It seems the company thought it was going to get a waiver for the imported steel....

Like many Trump supporters, they thought they would be above the law in exchange for a vote. But as the rules for dictators state: the keys to obtain power are different from the keys to keep it.

Rallied the steel, Midwest factory, and Appalachian coal miner votes to get elected; now they're thrown under the bus as steelmakers have to pay tariffs, factories continue to shut down, and coal mines go broke.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:24 pm

Folks need to understand the following in Steel Production.
China produces a bunch more than anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... production

US steel production just isn't competitive with China.
However if you look closer at the numbers you will see that the US imported around 20% of it's steel over the last few years, so 80% of the steel will benefit immensely from the 25% tariffs, as they can raise their costs and pass that on towards consumers.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
johns624
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:29 pm

The steel company complaining is based in India.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:44 pm

johns624 wrote:
The steel company complaining is based in India.

That makes a big difference. Funny how that detail was omitted.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:05 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
johns624 wrote:
The steel company complaining is based in India.

That makes a big difference. Funny how that detail was omitted.

Not really. Chrysler is a US corporation but it is owned by Fiat. Thousands of companies around the world are truly "domestic" companies but have foreign ownership.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
PPVRA
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:27 pm

If you think the point of tariffs is to collect money from China, you have no idea how tariffs work.

Tariffs make the products from China less competitive because whoever buys them has to pay more for them. Therefore, it artificially makes China less competitive.

That is the whole point of this policy. It’s working as intended! If you don’t like it, that’s a different story—but there’s nothing going on here that is unintended.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:53 pm

PPVRA wrote:
If you think the point of tariffs is to collect money from China, you have no idea how tariffs work.

Tariffs make the products from China less competitive because whoever buys them has to pay more for them. Therefore, it artificially makes China less competitive.

That is the whole point of this policy. It’s working as intended! If you don’t like it, that’s a different story—but there’s nothing going on here that is unintended.


There is plenty that is going on that is unintended. This article highlights that the effects are there on local manufacturing and supply chain logistics.

Artificially high costs lower demand for products as people won't pay at the same rate for higher priced products. This slows the economy, and creates barriers for entry. It also affects competitive products. Producers may find other materials to circumvent the tariffs thus ruining the businesses they were supposed to protect.

The GOP wants and needs high growth to get their tax cuts paid for, and this does not help.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
If you think the point of tariffs is to collect money from China, you have no idea how tariffs work.

Tariffs make the products from China less competitive because whoever buys them has to pay more for them. Therefore, it artificially makes China less competitive.

That is the whole point of this policy. It’s working as intended! If you don’t like it, that’s a different story—but there’s nothing going on here that is unintended.


There is plenty that is going on that is unintended. This article highlights that the effects are there on local manufacturing and supply chain logistics.

Artificially high costs lower demand for products as people won't pay at the same rate for higher priced products. This slows the economy, and creates barriers for entry. It also affects competitive products. Producers may find other materials to circumvent the tariffs thus ruining the businesses they were supposed to protect.

The GOP wants and needs high growth to get their tax cuts paid for, and this does not help.

While is is very true that the tariffs have lead to a change in China and the amount of production and investment targeted for there, the real problem has been that everywhere else is also then targeted with threats of tariffs. And so that slows doing anything. And when trying to move production to the USA to avoid this, the tariffs then still create a problem as a material is and always has been sourced from around the world and is now hit with extra costs.

Tariffs? OK fine, but be careful and smart about them. And Trump, the poor president he is, doesn't understand that. He just swings bat and uses a mega phone and hits everything. There is little precision in his actions.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:55 pm

Unless you have a decade or two in front of you, like China has, the only way to really restart coal and steel production in the US would have been to directly subsidize it. Maybe on top of the tariffs. Instead, with just the tariffs, and the bumbling policy moves, and other factors, companies just aren't going to invest in these old techs.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:39 am

PPVRA wrote:
Therefore, it artificially makes China less competitive.

That is the whole point of this policy. It’s working as intended! If you don’t like it, that’s a different story—but there’s nothing going on here that is unintended.


So ... Trump intends to prop up the economy of Vietnam at the expense of the US consumers, child to granny?

Interesting hypothesis....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:03 am

I'll add that tariffs don't make the US more competitive. So unless you put the same tariffs on everyone else, they might not work at all. Then you have retaliatory tariffs, then when you want to export, you have tariffs on top of uncompetitive products => no buyer.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:15 am

Aesma wrote:
I'll add that tariffs don't make the US more competitive. So unless you put the same tariffs on everyone else, they might not work at all. Then you have retaliatory tariffs, then when you want to export, you have tariffs on top of uncompetitive products => no buyer.


And of course any time a US steel maker wins a contract outside of the US the unfair competition argument is really easy to case to make....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: US Steelmaker suing US Government over tarrifs

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:21 pm

PPVRA wrote:
If you think the point of tariffs is to collect money from China, you have no idea how tariffs work.

Tariffs make the products from China less competitive because whoever buys them has to pay more for them. Therefore, it artificially makes China less competitive.

That is the whole point of this policy. It’s working as intended! If you don’t like it, that’s a different story—but there’s nothing going on here that is unintended.

1. If nothing is going here that is unintended, why is a domestic firm suing for exemption from the tariffs? Clearly there's miscommunication or the poor fool deluded themselves to think they're somehow exempted.
2. Regarding the collecting money from China, you may want to let Herr Trump know since it's all he talks about, like here, and here...and here too. Which begs the question: if you don't know how tariffs work, should you even be enacting them?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."

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