The airport follows a city law prohibiting plastic water bottle sale within city limits-
https://sf.eater.com/2019/8/2/20751825/ ... an-airport

This seems like a bad idea. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of bottled water, but one of the few times I find bottled water helpful is while traveling. My guess is that this will decrease waste from plastic water bottles, while increasing the waste from whatever replaces it just as much if not more. Water bottles often use less plastic than other counterparts. Not to mention water is more environmentally friendly to produce than the other products, and healthier to drink.

WBM wrote:

This seems like a bad idea. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of bottled water, but one of the few times I find bottled water helpful is while traveling. My guess is that this will decrease waste from plastic water bottles, while increasing the waste from whatever replaces it just as much if not more. Water bottles often use less plastic than other counterparts. Not to mention water is more environmentally friendly to produce that the other products, and healthier to drink.

What about bringing your own reusable water bottle and filling it at the drinking fountains? I don't know about SFO, but ATL has water fountains where you can refill water bottles.

I'm not generally a fan of the bay area's eco-measures, but this (and paper straws) I support wholeheartedly. The single-use straw and plastic water bottle thing is out of control. That said, it'll be interesting to see if WBM is right and we just end up with a different kind of waste, not to mention people sickened by reusable water bottles not adequately disinfected. I'm not holding my breath.

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

They sell water in cartons like how milk is normally sold

Just buy a Coke instead.

I’m a big fan of the reusable metal containers, but I wish they made it a little easier. Some airports it’s a breeze to find water fountains with a refillable bottle spout, others it’s impossible. Or there is one, but it’s concourse A and you’re flying out of E. Not sure how SFO is, but hopefully it’s easy

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/02/th ... er/385138/

Here is some more information on the boxed water trend. It is more environmentally friendly

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

When I flew thru SFO last May almost every vendor was selling Pathwater water bottles. They are made of metal and have multiple uses. The price didn't seem any higher than plastic water bottles I would pay for normally in an airport. They were everywhere in the terminal so I think the vendor's knew this was coming. The articles make it sound like there's no water being sold at the airport which is definitely not the case.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/02/the-single-best-reason-that-boxed-water-is-better/385138/

Here is some more information on the boxed water trend. It is more environmentally friendly

It's still one of the biggest legal scam: it's just tap water, that's filtered. Its carbon footprint is a real disaster when compared to regular tap water.

Makes sense since there are so many people that can't keep this stuff out of the oceans.

SonaSounds wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

When I flew thru SFO last May almost every vendor was selling Pathwater water bottles. They are made of metal and have multiple uses. The price didn't seem any higher than plastic water bottles I would pay for normally in an airport. They were everywhere in the terminal so I think the vendor's knew this was coming. The articles make it sound like there's no water being sold at the airport which is definitely not the case.

I know this is all well-intentioned, but this is hilarious.

The people at the airport are mostly about to embark on long journeys - some of them thousands of miles long - where they will burn their bodyweight in fossil fuels (a 2500 mile trip = about 200 pounds of fuel per seat) with exhaust pumped directly back into the air with no pollution controls* releasing lots of nitrous oxides as well as hundreds of pounds of CO2 - and in order to be more environmentally friendly, the airport bans plastic water bottles.

Of course, the plastic water bottles - light and cheap to produce and using minimal resources - are replaced with aluminum cans, the majority of which will be thrown away after a single use and likely not be recycled (70% of aluminum used in cans is recycled, so at a minimum it is 30% virgin aluminum on average). The energy required to mine and manufacture aluminum is about 25x that of a plastic bottle.

So, in net, in order to protect the environment, we end up using more resources - all of which are microscopic in the context of the pollution and waste from air travel.

I realize that this is not an either-or decision, and everything helps (except perhaps plastic bottles replaced with aluminum - other than microplastic pollution, the latter is definitely worse for the environment as used in practice), but it is still a bit ironic.

* I realize that jet turbines burn relatively clean due to the very high temperatures, but still, the average jet engine is still pretty polluting.

It always makes me laugh when "experts" say, "one should always stay hydrated while traveling!"

And then just like that, 200+ people spend the entire trip lined up for the micro-lav.

I'll hydrate after the trip is over, thank you.

Now, back to the original topic: Anything that gets rid of single-use plastics is good. Boxed water, bringing your own, etc, it's all good. Good for SFO.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

They sell water in cartons like how milk is normally sold

So... what's that box made out? Paper, wood, pulp? Deforestation anyone?

Ridiculous nanny state regulation. Just as stupid and pointless as banning plastic straws, which also accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Never-ending Bay Area regulation that is probably going to have a net negative effect on global warming

But its all about the feels of saving the Earth

Well done SFO, would have excepted the same here @ YVR as the city of Vancouver in planning for an all-out single use plastic ban in a couple of years, ( even tho YVR is technically in Richmond ) Get used to it everyone, it's coming to an airport near you. As long as they have bottle refillers around I'm super-happy to bring my own, saves a lot of $$ too.

While there is certainly the environmental angle, less sexy but likely a bigger issue is the cost of cleaning up all of this trash that finds its way into the water. It floats up on beaches, gets caught in drains, etc etc. and the very same people who make fun of the “tree huggers” complain about trash on the beach. Paper will dissolve. And rather quickly. Similarly in Chicago a few years back limitations were placed on plastic bags. Cleaning the beaches and the water intake of plastic garbage that never goes away (the city pulls its water from Lake Michigan) is just as important a reason as any long term environmental damage.

SonaSounds wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

When I flew thru SFO last May almost every vendor was selling Pathwater water bottles. They are made of metal and have multiple uses. The price didn't seem any higher than plastic water bottles I would pay for normally in an airport. They were everywhere in the terminal so I think the vendor's knew this was coming. The articles make it sound like there's no water being sold at the airport which is definitely not the case.

I actually got one of these in SFO not too long ago. It has actually been a really good (and inexpensive) water bottle. They are actually quite solid - you could probably stand on them without crushing them.

This is one of the dumbest things I've seen an airport do. Let's actually make the problem you're trying to improve worse, and all the while make life more difficult for people.

MSPNWA wrote:

This is one of the dumbest things I've seen an airport do. Let's actually make the problem you're trying to improve worse, and all the while make life more difficult for people.

People have been drinking out of paper containers their entire lives—see milk in schools. Picking up a carton of water instead of a bottle isn’t nearly as dramatic as you suggest.

Blimpie wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

They sell water in cartons like how milk is normally sold

So... what's that box made out? Paper, wood, pulp? Deforestation anyone?

Blimpie - exactly. You actually make a very good point.

domokun wrote:

SonaSounds wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then are they selling metallic water bottles instead?

When I flew thru SFO last May almost every vendor was selling Pathwater water bottles. They are made of metal and have multiple uses. The price didn't seem any higher than plastic water bottles I would pay for normally in an airport. They were everywhere in the terminal so I think the vendor's knew this was coming. The articles make it sound like there's no water being sold at the airport which is definitely not the case.

I actually got one of these in SFO not too long ago. It has actually been a really good (and inexpensive) water bottle. They are actually quite solid - you could probably stand on them without crushing them.

Same here. I still use one I bought in the international terminal a few months ago. When I first saw it in the store, I thought it looked stupid, but it’s actually the perfect water bottle for travel. Lightweight but sturdy, the right size for stuffing into a bag, airtight, and recyclable.

Blimpie wrote:

So... what's that box made out? Paper, wood, pulp? Deforestation anyone?

Wax and cardboard, both renewable resources that degrade in the environment in months to years instead of centuries to millennia, like plastic. The only plastic is in the cap, which is a >90% reduction.

I’m excited about the refill stations. When I flew out of JFK terminal 4 there was one there, saved me $$$ on water and hydrated on a long over night flight without having to borrow the flight attendants.

MAH4546 wrote:

Ridiculous nanny state regulation. Just as stupid and pointless as banning plastic straws, which also accomplishes absolutely nothing.

No single snowflake thinks its the cause of an avalanche.
The impact may be small, but it is the sum of many small efforts that will hopefully make a dent on our seemingly intractable plastics problem.

At my work they stopped selling plastic bottles and switched to the Pathwater bottle shown above. Now I have used the same bottle every day for 3 months refilled at the cooler and the thought of tossing out (recycling) a plastic bottle each time seems downright silly now. It doesn't take much to slowly alter our behavior into something more sustainable.

Its our poor stewardship of the planet that requires a "nanny state" to intervene.

WayexTDI wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/02/the-single-best-reason-that-boxed-water-is-better/385138/

Here is some more information on the boxed water trend. It is more environmentally friendly

It's still one of the biggest legal scam: it's just tap water, that's filtered. Its carbon footprint is a real disaster when compared to regular tap water.

Only in America do companies get away with selling tap water paid for by taxpayers.

exmike wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

Ridiculous nanny state regulation. Just as stupid and pointless as banning plastic straws, which also accomplishes absolutely nothing.

No single snowflake thinks its the cause of an avalanche.
The impact may be small, but it is the sum of many small efforts that will hopefully make a dent on our seemingly intractable plastics problem.

At my work they stopped selling plastic bottles and switched to the Pathwater bottle shown above. Now I have used the same bottle every day for 3 months refilled at the cooler and the thought of tossing out (recycling) a plastic bottle each time seems downright silly now. It doesn't take much to slowly alter our behavior into something more sustainable.

Its our poor stewardship of the planet that requires a "nanny state" to intervene.

Saying the impact is small is generous. There is literally no impact, other than typical far right loons that like to control what everybody does. That’s far more dangerous than a plastic straw in the ocean.

MAH4546 wrote:

Saying the impact is small is generous. There is literally no impact, other than typical far right loons that like to control what everybody does. That’s far more dangerous than a plastic straw in the ocean.

Since when was protecting and preserving the earth a far right agenda? I guess you'd let the earth burn to the ground in the name of your God given right to do whatever you want.

As (I presume) one of the younger aviation enthusiasts on A.net, (Gen-Z) I say boo hoo to all those that are complaining about the inconvenience or insignificance of such a ban.

It's people my age and younger that are changing to eco-friendlier habits one step at a time - and it's my generation or younger that will inevitably inherit the messes and results of climate change YOU made. Buy a reusable bottle from your local gas station and fill it up at the water fountains post-security like the rest of us for Christ's sake.

Next.

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

As (I presume) one of the younger aviation enthusiasts on A.net, (Gen-Z) I say boo hoo to all those that are complaining about the inconvenience or insignificance of such a ban.

It's people my age and younger that are changing to eco-friendlier habits one step at a time - and it's my generation or younger that will inevitably inherit the messes and results of climate change YOU made. Buy a reusable bottle from your local gas station and fill it up at the water fountains post-security like the rest of us for Christ's sake.

Next.

You remind of my dad - 70 y.o. who still complains that supermarkets in my country don't give free plastic bags. And he thought it was bad already when he had to pay a few cents for them! (previous policy). You are quite right, it's a matter of generations.

Reading thru this thread I thought it was a weird move, but soon it seemed like a sensitive measure. I do wonder what advantages this might have when competing with recycling. SFO always seemed to me one of the most progressive/greener towns in the USA.

WayexTDI wrote:

WBM wrote:

This seems like a bad idea. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of bottled water, but one of the few times I find bottled water helpful is while traveling. My guess is that this will decrease waste from plastic water bottles, while increasing the waste from whatever replaces it just as much if not more. Water bottles often use less plastic than other counterparts. Not to mention water is more environmentally friendly to produce that the other products, and healthier to drink.

What about bringing your own reusable water bottle and filling it at the drinking fountains? I don't know about SFO, but ATL has water fountains where you can refill water bottles.

I'm actually a big fan of the filling stations, and use them frequently, but at an airport I am most likely to use them to refill an empty plastic water bottle. There are a lot of advantages to reusing a plastic bottle when traveling. For me the biggest thing is that it is nice to use something that can be lost, tossed, or broken without much consequence. Otherwise it is another thing to pack and keep track of. Another advantage is the variable size. My everyday water bottles are two big for the flying part, and too small for a day at the destination. When traveling I can get exactly the size I need, and reuse as needed.

I very much agree with you that buying bottled water is mostly a scam. When I do buy bottled water, it is almost always so that I can reuse the bottle.

AtomicGarden wrote:

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

As (I presume) one of the younger aviation enthusiasts on A.net, (Gen-Z) I say boo hoo to all those that are complaining about the inconvenience or insignificance of such a ban.

It's people my age and younger that are changing to eco-friendlier habits one step at a time - and it's my generation or younger that will inevitably inherit the messes and results of climate change YOU made. Buy a reusable bottle from your local gas station and fill it up at the water fountains post-security like the rest of us for Christ's sake.

Next.

You remind of my dad - 70 y.o. who still complains that supermarkets in my country don't give free plastic bags. And he thought it was bad already when he had to pay a few cents for them! (previous policy). You are quite right, it's a matter of generations.

Reading thru this thread I thought it was a weird move, but soon it seemed like a sensitive measure. I do wonder what advantages this might have when competing with recycling. SFO always seemed to me one of the most progressive/greener towns in the USA.

To be fair, SFO is simply following the law imposed by the City of San Francisco. The airport's tennants really have no say in the issue if they want to avoid fines or worse.

If anyone out there truly is wondering what sort of reusable water bottles to buy, I highly recommend taking a look at the HydroFlask brand. Great vacuum-like insulation and comes in all sorts of sizes and colors. I always bring mine empty to the airport and use the filling stations after security. They're everywhere these days. Painless.

The benefit of this is in making refilling stations more prevalent. I travel with two 1.5L Nalgene bottles typically, and generally consume all the water in less than 5 hours. I often am stuck using plastic bottles to refill them, which is so stupid it hurts (but drinking from the plastic cap vs the HumanGear cap is a poor experience). If the refill stations were available (and trustworthy), I could avoid this particular transgression.

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

As (I presume) one of the younger aviation enthusiasts on A.net, (Gen-Z) I say boo hoo to all those that are complaining about the inconvenience or insignificance of such a ban.

It's people my age and younger that are changing to eco-friendlier habits one step at a time - and it's my generation or younger that will inevitably inherit the messes and results of climate change YOU made. Buy a reusable bottle from your local gas station and fill it up at the water fountains post-security like the rest of us for Christ's sake.

Next.

I'm all for changing to more eco friendly habits, but this particular regulation looks to me like all cost and no benefit. There is a good chance that the ban at the airport will be a net negative for the environment. At the airport most people who would have purchased a bottled water will now buy something else. An equivalent bottle of soda would be worse for the environment. The aluminum can could be better, unless it gets tossed in the garbage after one use. The carton appears to be better, but even then I have my doubts. It takes a lot of processing to make paper hold water. Also those containers are hard to recycle.

Perhaps the ban will have enough of a positive effect in the rest of the city, to make it worthwhile overall. I would really like to know what the over all effects would be.

It's great to make efforts to improve the environment. It's to bad that so many of the causes being championed seem to be feel good activities instead of do good activities.

WBM wrote:

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

As (I presume) one of the younger aviation enthusiasts on A.net, (Gen-Z) I say boo hoo to all those that are complaining about the inconvenience or insignificance of such a ban.

It's people my age and younger that are changing to eco-friendlier habits one step at a time - and it's my generation or younger that will inevitably inherit the messes and results of climate change YOU made. Buy a reusable bottle from your local gas station and fill it up at the water fountains post-security like the rest of us for Christ's sake.

Next.

I'm all for changing to more eco friendly habits, but this particular regulation looks to me like all cost and no benefit. There is a good chance that the ban at the airport will be a net negative for the environment. At the airport most people who would have purchased a bottled water will now buy something else. An equivalent bottle of soda would be worse for the environment. The aluminum can could be better, unless it gets tossed in the garbage after one use. The carton appears to be better, but even then I have my doubts. It takes a lot of processing to make paper hold water. Also those containers are hard to recycle.

Perhaps the ban will have enough of a positive effect in the rest of the city, to make it worthwhile overall. I would really like to know what the over all effects would be.

It's great to make efforts to improve the environment. It's to bad that so many of the causes being championed seem to be feel good activities instead of do good activities.

I agree with you that people will likely turn to other alternatives such as sodas that still are single-use plastics. I think a city like San Francisco - being on a peninsula - will likely benefit from this ban considering how much plastic ends up in the sea.

The way I see it, starting with single-use bottled water is a great foundational ban. If you think about it, we don't go to the grocery store and buy a 24 pack of plastic coke bottles. Those are in cans. But we do buy 24 single-use plastic bottles of water. Start from there, and then work up the supply chain over time. Companies like Nestle, Coca-Cola, and PepsiCo are already making pledges to move away from plastics in X amount of years.

I agree with your sentiment that the net positive results are difficult to forecast now, but it certainly is a step in the right direction for a more sustainable future.

What effect does this have on airlines? On my long haul flights out of SFO I am usually given a plastic bottle of water before takeoff without asking for it.

BravoOne wrote:

Makes sense since there are so many people that can't keep this stuff out of the oceans.

Oh you like most of East Asia and Africa? North America is definitely not the problem. I can cite sources.

exmike wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

Ridiculous nanny state regulation. Just as stupid and pointless as banning plastic straws, which also accomplishes absolutely nothing.

No single snowflake thinks its the cause of an avalanche.
The impact may be small, but it is the sum of many small efforts that will hopefully make a dent on our seemingly intractable plastics problem.

At my work they stopped selling plastic bottles and switched to the Pathwater bottle shown above. Now I have used the same bottle every day for 3 months refilled at the cooler and the thought of tossing out (recycling) a plastic bottle each time seems downright silly now. It doesn't take much to slowly alter our behavior into something more sustainable.

Its our poor stewardship of the planet that requires a "nanny state" to intervene.

As long as plastic is either recycled or disposed of/stored in a landfill, it isn't damaging the planet. The total area of landfills worldwide is tiny compared to the land area on Earth.

This (and the plastic bag and straw bans) are just feel good laws that solve a problem that doesn't exist, at least in the USA. Ocean dumping is banned in the US so, with the exception of a little litter, plastic used in the USA does not end up in the ocean.

Do something about countries that do dump plastic in the oceans first.

Hopefully this will at least force water bottle producers to try to create more environmentally friendly containers (if it does anything at all). I think we can all agree that getting away from the idea of disposable plastics such as water bottles, straws, etc. is a good thing as long as the alternatives are actually better.

Like aklrno, I am also curious as to the effect this has on the airlines.

Don’t buy bottled water in general, at least not in bulk. Filter your tap water.

At the airport, drink from a fountain before your flight, then take advantage of water provided onboard via large bottles.

And don’t drink so much. The 8 glasses a day is not science. It is a theory from one nutritionist that became fact. All you are doing is wasting a precious resource by drinking too much, peeing too much, and flushing too much.

As for recycling, it doesn’t work that well for plastic. All plastic food containers must be virgin plastic for sanitary reasons. We collect far more plastic to recycle than we can make use of in products that can use it. People think “I recycled, I did my job.” Reducing is more importsnt. Or use glass, which is recyclable, or when it ends up in oceans eventually becomes sand again (after the sea glass phase).

You used to be able to use a drinking fountain or sit down at a restaurant and get a glass of water. Now newer terminals don't have drinking fountains and a lot of the sit down restaurants have been replaced with quick serve places with the same generic selection of single use plastic drinks. If we are going to go back to the old days then bring back what worked.

No water in plastic battle? The solution is one fart away:
1) drink tap water. There are water stations or, if the toilette is clean, there are the sinks.
2) buy water in a paper box. Trees can be cut and plant again if you follow a smart business model. That's how it works in Finland.

william wrote:

Just buy a Coke instead.

Hell, why not just go with Brawndo. That is where this idocracy is taking us.

I applaud this development! I'm usually against overly nitpicky laws, but in the case of ridiculous small plastic water bottles I would be for a total, nationwide ban. Just go buy a reusable plastic water bottle a sporting goods store and take with you wherever you go. Works like a charm.

Thibault973 wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/02/the-single-best-reason-that-boxed-water-is-better/385138/

Here is some more information on the boxed water trend. It is more environmentally friendly

It's still one of the biggest legal scam: it's just tap water, that's filtered. Its carbon footprint is a real disaster when compared to regular tap water.

Only in America do companies get away with selling tap water paid for by taxpayers.

Ever been to China? It's not safe to drink tap water without boiling it first. Bottled water has a real place, and not just in the US.

WayexTDI wrote:

WBM wrote:

This seems like a bad idea. Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of bottled water, but one of the few times I find bottled water helpful is while traveling. My guess is that this will decrease waste from plastic water bottles, while increasing the waste from whatever replaces it just as much if not more. Water bottles often use less plastic than other counterparts. Not to mention water is more environmentally friendly to produce that the other products, and healthier to drink.

What about bringing your own reusable water bottle and filling it at the drinking fountains? I don't know about SFO, but ATL has water fountains where you can refill water bottles.

Perhaps you Americans are used to how your tap/fountain water tastes, but for us Finns and Scandinavians its undrinkable. Well, at least for me. I've tried it at several occasions around the country at ended up almost throwing up every time. ORD has these stations to fill your water bottles with filtered water or whatever. Gave it a try once - undrinkable. This ban is simply ludicrous unless a decent alternative option to bottled water is provided.

On a side note, I wish there was a ban on plastic water bottles here in Finland or Iceland. What a total waste to pay for something that is inferior to what comes from the tap!

I don't understand how anyone could be spouting off against this. We have a MASSIVE problem with plastics and microplastics. It has to start somewhere. I hope this trend continues beyond airports.