https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/el-pas ... index.html

That’s just great! Way to go ‘MuricA!! Take your f’n guns and shove them so far up that you can taste the barrel. can’t wait for the usual mouth breathers 2nd amendment dribble. Let’s hear it, c’mon!

18 injured/killed almost enough to start a topic on.

Here’s hoping thoughts, prayers and more guns will eventually solve the problem.

Kiwirob wrote:

18 injured/killed almost enough to start a topic on.

Here’s hoping thoughts, prayers and more guns will eventually solve the problem.

I often wonder how many more mass shootings have to happen until gun control is implemented.

Reminds me of this Onion article that is posted almost weekly:

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prev ... 1819580358

Oh stop. We know what the problem is. The problem is that Walmart is not equipping employees with 10 handguns each. And that Texans are not thinking and praying hard enough.

OK, here you go: Complete Gun Control!

I will state this as succinctly as possible: The Left can confiscate every firearm of every type whatsoever it believes exists from everyone it believes has one (or more) and mass shootings may decrease or, hopefully, even cease, but crime will continue to occur to an extent, especially in the inner cities.

There is no way the gangbangers will ever change their way. This link is an example of a typical inner city gangbanger, in this case saying “It’s Chicago—why shouldn’t I have a gun?”

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

So, if the problem of mass shootings is ideally addressed in the future, does the Left then develop an even tougher solution to deal with the continuing racially sensitive problem of inner-city crime? How does it do that?

FTMCPIUS wrote:

I will state this as succinctly as possible: The Left can confiscate every firearm of every type whatsoever it believes exists from everyone it believes has one (or more) and mass shootings may decrease or, hopefully, even cease, but crime will continue......

I know that the main tried an true tactic of the rightwingers is to swap the subject of conversation, but this seems like it's going too far. Here you change the subject from mass murders by guns to "crime" in the same sentence! I really think this is a window into the right wing thought process. It's all sort of a jumble, isn't it?

Seems like the shooter is a white nationalist Trump supporter, trying to copycat the Christchurch shooter but targeting Hispanics instead of Muslims.

Truly sad. Awaiting further details but I doubt anyone cares. Itll quickly be politicized.

To the OP. Seriously poor choice of a thread title.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Seems like the shooter is a white nationalist Trump supporter, trying to copycat the Christchurch shooter but targeting Hispanics instead of Muslims.

If that turns out to be true, the usual suspects will be on this like flies on shit to claim it's all a 'false flag' operation, and that those people didn't actually die.

Count on it.

trpmb6 wrote:

Truly sad. Awaiting further details but I doubt anyone cares. Itll quickly be politicized.

It should be politicised. Have you noticed how in every other developed country when they have a mass shooting it becomes politicised and the politicians actually do something about gun violence? And also attempt to quell any racial hatred against groups that have been targeted (as it seems the shooter hated Hispanics).

The response of Jacinta Ardern to the Christchurch shootings was great, actual gun restrictions passed and a real outreach to NZ’s Muslim community. Which definitely won’t be happening in the US after this massacre.

Scorpio wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Seems like the shooter is a white nationalist Trump supporter, trying to copycat the Christchurch shooter but targeting Hispanics instead of Muslims.

If that turns out to be true, the usual suspects will be on this like flies on shit to claim it's all a 'false flag' operation, and that those people didn't actually die.

Count on it.

After Vegas they claimed it was Islamic extremists and they should be deported/put in camps/Mecca nuked, until it was revealed the shooter was a white guy, then it suddenly becomes suspicious/details didn’t fit/obvious false flag from the MAGA types.

And it looks like Fox News and Texas Lt Governor Dan Patrick are finally getting angry at the real cause behind this massacre:

Antifa and left wing protestors:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-lt- ... t-shooting

Some of you guys scare me more than the shooter. Give it a break and lets see how this plays out. The shooter is alive so we will probably learn more than the usual drivel from the media.

sierrakilo44. I live in LAS and I haver heard anything you have stated. Maybe some of the far out websites, but not anything responsible.

Spar wrote:

FTMCPIUS wrote:

I will state this as succinctly as possible: The Left can confiscate every firearm of every type whatsoever it believes exists from everyone it believes has one (or more) and mass shootings may decrease or, hopefully, even cease, but crime will continue......

I know that the main tried an true tactic of the rightwingers is to swap the subject of conversation, but this seems like it's going too far. Here you change the subject from mass murders by guns to "crime" in the same sentence! I really think this is a window into the right wing thought process. It's all sort of a jumble, isn't it?

I'm not changing the subject, but simply fast forwarding through all the BS to the endgame where, in the scenario I lay out, the Left will find very uncomfortable decision making to be made.

FTMCPIUS wrote:

I'm not changing the subject, but simply fast forwarding through all the BS to the endgame where, in the scenario I lay out, the Left will find very uncomfortable decision making to be made.

No, it’s a changing of the subject and trying to put the focus on how bad leftists are when this massacre was almost certainly (at this stage) committed by a right leaning anti immigrant MAGA nut.

It’s just a following of the Fox News/Dan Patrick playbook to divert attention away from the real culprits:

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status ... 75264?s=20

bgm wrote:

I often wonder how many more mass shootings have to happen until gun control is implemented.

If Sandy Hook failed to cause change to be implemented, then nothing will. Sad, but true.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

FTMCPIUS wrote:

I'm not changing the subject, but simply fast forwarding through all the BS to the endgame where, in the scenario I lay out, the Left will find very uncomfortable decision making to be made.

No, it’s a changing of the subject and trying to put the focus on how bad leftists are when this massacre was almost certainly (at this stage) committed by a right leaning anti immigrant MAGA nut.

It’s just a following of the Fox News/Dan Patrick playbook to divert attention away from the real culprits:

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status ... 75264?s=20

Back up a bit and read my original post that advocates all guns confiscated by the Left (that they know of) and asks what the Left will do about the problem of gangs that will still have guns. My bad if that's "changing the subject."

In Europe themost terrorist attacks seems to have a sort of either white extreemist umbrella (example brevik in norway > 100 dead) and muslim extreemist (example nice france > 80 dead).

I must again say that in Europe things are happening. The police is hunting both groups havily, after a slow start when special white extremist groups was not considered to terrible.

In usa i have the impression that muslim extremist groups beeing hunted down extensivly but the white extreemist groups not so much. Las vegas as an example is still considered as a sole crazy guy. I think he follows pretty much the breivik model pretty much. The us administration seems to avoid to make any connections as well.

Scorpio wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Seems like the shooter is a white nationalist Trump supporter, trying to copycat the Christchurch shooter but targeting Hispanics instead of Muslims.

If that turns out to be true, the usual suspects will be on this like flies on shit to claim it's all a 'false flag' operation, and that those people didn't actually die.

Count on it.

To be fair, that’s exactly what the anti-Trump crowd on this forum said about Iran bombing the ship.

This is obviously a tragic event. I’m anxious to learn more facts and pray for the people affected by this.

Well, nobody is saying that this is a false flag. So let’s save the outrage for now.

Another Second Amendment Celebration. Gun lovers will continue to claim how much more important that they have access to AK-47s than "other people" simply having their lives. do people really need assault rifles to go deer hunting? And if they are a lousy shot of course they will need the bump stock and extra large capacity magazines in order to have a chance to kill a deer.

And intelligent management of gun sales (something beyond the NRA's mental capacity) with background checks for all gun sales, training and an actual license showing the puncher/owner's face and fingerprint (just like my driver's license) in order to buy or own a gun. And, because gun ownership directly contributes to major medical costs in this country from GSWs lets have a per bullet tax to help pay the costs of treating those GSWs. 10¢ a round used to be reasonable but medical inflation has gone through the roof so we should be starting at 25¢ a round. Maybe lower for 22s as they do less damage.

While we can mourn those killed today, just like all other mass shootings that the US is famous for, at some point we need to say that enough is enough, Hopefully before someone you or I love gets killed.

Suspect has been identified as Patrick Crusius, a 21-year-old Trump supporter from the Dallas area. He published a Facebook "manifesto" echoing the "send them home" rhetoric that has invigorated and shamelessly inflamed more of the far right over the past week.

"The El Paso shooting was the second mass shooting in as many weeks reportedly attributed to white supremacists. Just last week, Santino William Legan killed multiple people attending the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, California. That shooting and Saturday’s shooting in El Paso were the latest in a growing string of attempted and carried-out mass shootings attributed to overt pro-white racism that has soared since Trump was elected."

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-sho ... k-crusius/

Reaping what his dear leader has sown, it appears.

Ken777 wrote:

While we can mourn those killed today, just like all other mass shootings that the US is famous for, at some point we need to say that enough is enough, Hopefully before someone you or I love gets killed.

November, 2020. Hopefully, things will really change.

VTKillarney wrote:

Well, nobody is saying that this is a false flag. So let’s save the outrage for now.

It's 3:20am in Moscow. Give it some time.

Ken777 wrote:

Another Second Amendment Celebration. Gun lovers will continue to claim how much more important that they have access to AK-47s than "other people" simply having their lives. do people really need assault rifles to go deer hunting? And if they are a lousy shot of course they will need the bump stock and extra large capacity magazines in order to have a chance to kill a deer.

And intelligent management of gun sales (something beyond the NRA's mental capacity) with background checks for all gun sales, training and an actual license showing the puncher/owner's face and fingerprint (just like my driver's license) in order to buy or own a gun. And, because gun ownership directly contributes to major medical costs in this country from GSWs lets have a per bullet tax to help pay the costs of treating those GSWs. 10¢ a round used to be reasonable but medical inflation has gone through the roof so we should be starting at 25¢ a round. Maybe lower for 22s as they do less damage.

While we can mourn those killed today, just like all other mass shootings that the US is famous for, at some point we need to say that enough is enough, Hopefully before someone you or I love gets killed.

Or get this, some of us accept the fact that we are solely responsible for our own personal safety. I went for a hike today and carried a .357 with bear loads with me. If I walk down town I carry a .45 or my 9mm depending on what I am wearing. If I am up on the farm I’ll carry my AR15 to deal with coyotes and other wild predators. The point being folks like you can’t seem to comprehend that when the shit hits the fan, there is NOBODY there to protect you but yourself. How long does it take a cop to respond to a shooting? 4-5 minutes? Unlike the perpetually offended on here, I’ll choose to continue to take responsibility for my own personal safety. Only a fool goes into the den of the beast unarmed and expects to leave unscathed.

To the surprise of absolutely nobody, the shooter is another white male in 20s, a MAGA nut that drive all the way to the border area at that.

Seriously, he should have just off himself instead of killing 20 .

alfa164 wrote:

Suspect has been identified as Patrick Crusius, a 21-year-old Trump supporter from the Dallas area. He published a Facebook "manifesto" echoing the "send them home" rhetoric that has invigorated and shamelessly inflamed more of the far right over the past week.

"The El Paso shooting was the second mass shooting in as many weeks reportedly attributed to white supremacists. Just last week, Santino William Legan killed multiple people attending the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, California. That shooting and Saturday’s shooting in El Paso were the latest in a growing string of attempted and carried-out mass shootings attributed to overt pro-white racism that has soared since Trump was elected."

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-sho ... k-crusius/

Reaping what his dear leader has sown, it appears.

Ken777 wrote:

While we can mourn those killed today, just like all other mass shootings that the US is famous for, at some point we need to say that enough is enough, Hopefully before someone you or I love gets killed.

November, 2020. Hopefully, things will really change.

What kind of 'change' do you advocate? Other than complete confiscation of all firearms, feel-good hand wringing, vigils and hearings will accomplish zilch.

Aaron747 wrote:

If you don’t like brown people because you don’t have a job - it’s not their fault. It’s usually because your life decisions suck.”

There's no need to counter one inappropriate harshness with another harshness. There are a lot of unemployed and marginally unemployed middle and lower middle class people in this nation, the homeless faction above all, and it is not their fault unless we want to modify our constitution to deny full citizenship to anybody with less than a masters degree.

Yes, "brown people" have taken a lot of jobs from third and fourth generation Americans but this is not the "fault" or the doing of the brown people, it is the result of decades of policies that kept the southern border open so as to flood the labor market and keep labor costs down.

Now like Captain Louie in Casablanca, the Republicans are aghast that all these Mexicans have crossed our oh so porous border and are flooding our nation.

It was a methodical and deliberate undertaking all along and the proof of it is that to this day there are virtually no penalties for hiring illegals.

I don't mean to be on your case Aaron, it seems that all the posters in this forum are blind to the simple fact that these "brown people" were brought here intentionally.

LittleSprocket wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Another Second Amendment Celebration. Gun lovers will continue to claim how much more important that they have access to AK-47s than "other people" simply having their lives. do people really need assault rifles to go deer hunting? And if they are a lousy shot of course they will need the bump stock and extra large capacity magazines in order to have a chance to kill a deer.

And intelligent management of gun sales (something beyond the NRA's mental capacity) with background checks for all gun sales, training and an actual license showing the puncher/owner's face and fingerprint (just like my driver's license) in order to buy or own a gun. And, because gun ownership directly contributes to major medical costs in this country from GSWs lets have a per bullet tax to help pay the costs of treating those GSWs. 10¢ a round used to be reasonable but medical inflation has gone through the roof so we should be starting at 25¢ a round. Maybe lower for 22s as they do less damage.

While we can mourn those killed today, just like all other mass shootings that the US is famous for, at some point we need to say that enough is enough, Hopefully before someone you or I love gets killed.

Or get this, some of us accept the fact that we are solely responsible for our own personal safety. I went for a hike today and carried a .357 with bear loads with me. If I walk down town I carry a .45 or my 9mm depending on what I am wearing. If I am up on the farm I’ll carry my AR15 to deal with coyotes and other wild predators. The point being folks like you can’t seem to comprehend that when the shit hits the fan, there is NOBODY there to protect you but yourself. How long does it take a cop to respond to a shooting? 4-5 minutes? Unlike the perpetually offended on here, I’ll choose to continue to take responsibility for my own personal safety. Only a fool goes into the den of the beast unarmed and expects to leave unscathed.

So where was the "good guy with a gun" in this situation? This happened in Texas where everyone can get a gun, and if no one in Texas was there to stop this shooter it will not happen anywhere else.

Spar wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

If you don’t like brown people because you don’t have a job - it’s not their fault. It’s usually because your life decisions suck.”

There's no need to counter one inappropriate harshness with another harshness. There are a lot of unemployed and marginally unemployed middle and lower middle class people in this nation, the homeless faction above all, and it is not their fault unless we want to modify our constitution to deny full citizenship to anybody with less than a masters degree.

Yes, "brown people" have taken a lot of jobs from third and fourth generation Americans but this is not the "fault" or the doing of the brown people, it is the result of decades of policies that kept the southern border open so as to flood the labor market and keep labor costs down.

Now like Captain Louie in Casablanca, the Republicans are aghast that all these Mexicans have crossed our oh so porous border and are flooding our nation.

It was a methodical and deliberate undertaking all along and the proof of it is that to this day there are virtually no penalties for hiring illegals.

I don't mean to be on your case Aaron, it seems that all the posters in this forum are blind to the simple fact that these "brown people" were brought here intentionally.

Do you think someone like the shooter would actually be an employee who doesn't get fired within 2 weeks? He's the kind of guy no one would pay to employ.

Jouhou wrote:

Spar wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

If you don’t like brown people because you don’t have a job - it’s not their fault. It’s usually because your life decisions suck.”

There's no need to counter one inappropriate harshness with another harshness. There are a lot of unemployed and marginally unemployed middle and lower middle class people in this nation, the homeless faction above all, and it is not their fault unless we want to modify our constitution to deny full citizenship to anybody with less than a masters degree.

Yes, "brown people" have taken a lot of jobs from third and fourth generation Americans but this is not the "fault" or the doing of the brown people, it is the result of decades of policies that kept the southern border open so as to flood the labor market and keep labor costs down.

Now like Captain Louie in Casablanca, the Republicans are aghast that all these Mexicans have crossed our oh so porous border and are flooding our nation.

It was a methodical and deliberate undertaking all along and the proof of it is that to this day there are virtually no penalties for hiring illegals.

I don't mean to be on your case Aaron, it seems that all the posters in this forum are blind to the simple fact that these "brown people" were brought here intentionally.

Do you think someone like the shooter would actually be an employee who doesn't get fired within 2 weeks? He's the kind of guy no one would pay to employ.

That’s pure speculation. Perhaps we should wait and see where and when he was employed.

Right wingers have murdered more people in this past week than anti fascists have in decades but anti fascist are the violent ones. Thoughts and prayers are working really well. So glad there was a good guy with a gun. Worked just as well as "gun free zones"

Reports coming in that the shooter is the incel Sam Hyde.

seb146 wrote:

Right wingers have murdered more people in this past week than anti fascists have in decades but anti fascist are the violent ones. Thoughts and prayers are working really well. So glad there was a good guy with a gun. Worked just as well as "gun free zones"

Yet another straw man. Please stop politicizing this tragedy to appeal to your own desires. Right wingers decry both types of violence.

dragon-wings wrote:

So where was the "good guy with a gun" in this situation? This happened in Texas where everyone can get a gun, and if no one in Texas was there to stop this shooter it will not happen anywhere else.

The mall where this happened is a gun free zone. So your point doesn’t apply. If anything, you are making a compelling argument for more places that allow guns.

olle wrote:

In Europe themost terrorist attacks seems to have a sort of either white extreemist umbrella (example brevik in norway > 100 dead) and muslim extreemist (example nice france > 80 dead).

I must again say that in Europe things are happening. The police is hunting both groups havily, after a slow start when special white extremist groups was not considered to terrible.

In usa i have the impression that muslim extremist groups beeing hunted down extensivly but the white extreemist groups not so much. Las vegas as an example is still considered as a sole crazy guy. I think he follows pretty much the breivik model pretty much. The us administration seems to avoid to make any connections as well.

Its funny but this shooting was done by a sole gunman who seems to have been a racist. Much like CNN you seem to want to make this a group thing. It isn't its individuals full of hate attacking soft targets. Not a group.

LittleSprocket wrote:

“Allen said his department received initial reports of the shooting at 10:39 a.m. and first responders arrived six minutes later.“

https://www.foxnews.com/us/el-paso-walm ... greg-allen

26 people could be alive right now if just one chose to defend themselves properly. It took law enforcement 6 minutes to get on scene, not to mention how long it takes to get the lay of the land and figure out what is going on. That’s a LONG time for someone bent on killing to go unhindered. I can empty a full magazine of 9mm in less than 10 seconds if I shoot indiscriminately. Imagine what I can do when I can reload unhindered without the threat of being fired back on.

A fucking waste of life because people are ignorant of the dangers that persist in any society.

That's right, it's the fault of the people who were not carrying guns, they deserved to be shot just for that sin....

I have to wonder how many large checks the NRA are going to have to cut this week to the GOP to keep carrying the flag for them.

Aaron747 wrote:

We’ll let the FBI be the judge of that after checking his online activities. Some of these are lone wolves, others are involved in organizations of some type.

And it is fair to assume that they all were affected by the hate rhetoric that has been so prevalent from the right, especially in the last couple of years.

If people can't remain civil, we will need to close this thread down permanently.

No personal attacks, no swearing. Refer to the guidelines please.

Once again, chose your excuse or explanation of this mass murder and indeed terrorist event. I am tired of these mass murder attacks whether in a El Paso Walmart or the streets of Chicago. Something has to change in our culture, not just in the USA, but also around the world to end the carnage.

The odds of you getting shot in a mass shooting are very low. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sometimes they use knives, or, bombs, like the Tsarnaev brothers.

VTKillarney wrote:

Scorpio wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Seems like the shooter is a white nationalist Trump supporter, trying to copycat the Christchurch shooter but targeting Hispanics instead of Muslims.

If that turns out to be true, the usual suspects will be on this like flies on shit to claim it's all a 'false flag' operation, and that those people didn't actually die.

Count on it.

To be fair, that’s exactly what the anti-Trump crowd on this forum said about Iran bombing the ship.

This is obviously a tragic event. I’m anxious to learn more facts and pray for the people affected by this.

Yep. Praying REALLY helps. Don’t forget the thoughts too. When combined, they usually bring back the victims from the dead.

Problem solved(!)

DIRECTFLT wrote:

The odds of you getting shot in a mass shooting are very low. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Sometimes they use knives, or, bombs, like the Tsarnaev brothers.

Yet outside the US, the odds are significantly lower. Why do you think that might be?

NIKV69 wrote:

Its funny but this shooting was done by a sole gunman who seems to have been a racist. Much like CNN you seem to want to make this a group thing. It isn't its individuals full of hate attacking soft targets. Not a group.

You conveniently overlook the shooter's inspiration for the attack:

"...a document posted on the website 8chan about an hour-and-a-half before the rampage spoke about the “invasion” of Latino immigrants and said the writer agreed with the shooter who killed worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand.

A Twitter account that appeared to belong to Crusius was shut down Saturday evening. Tweets on the account had praised President Trump and, in particular, his effort to build a wall along the U.S- Mexico border."

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-03/what-we-know-about-patrick-crusius-el-paso-rampage

"Pages of the manifesto included anti-immigrant rhetoric with the author going into depth on why he is “against race mixing,” supports the idea to “send them back” and offering a prediction of “genocide.”

"The El Paso shooting was the second mass shooting in as many weeks reportedly attributed to white supremacists. Just last week, Santino William Legan killed multiple people attending the Garlic Festival in Gilroy, California. That shooting and Saturday’s shooting in El Paso were the latest in a growing string of attempted and carried-out mass shootings attributed to overt pro-white racism that has soared since Trump was elected."

https://newsone.com/3883517/el-paso-shooter-patrick-crusius/

.
The consequences of a cynical campaign to divide the American people for political gain is rearing its ugly head.

VTKillarney wrote:

The mall where this happened is a gun free zone. So your point doesn’t apply. If anything, you are making a compelling argument for more places that allow guns.

That's a lie. It happened at a Walmart - and that store is about a quarter-mile from the mall itself. It is hardly "gun-free"; it actually sells guns there.