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Dieuwer
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Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:08 am

..because it gives them the perfect excuse to loudly pander to their base and attempt to squeeze a few more votes out of them.
Either party had plenty of time to table sensible gun legislation. In fact, right now the Dems have the majority in the House. During Obama's term they had a total majority.
So let's stop the cat fights on CNN. Buy a walk-up ticket at the airport and fly to DC right now. It is 9 PM EST and I am sure there are plenty of flights to DC. Table legislation and vote on it first thing tomorrow morning. If the Senate does not go along, call them out. But only THEN. Not before.

Of course, politicians won't do what I suggested. Because it is better for them to pander to their base and get reelected perpetually, then actually doing their job (meaning, doing what's best in the interest of The People).

Just to make it clear:IT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES.

(Yes, I am very cynical. I became that by moving from Holland to the USA).
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:27 am

Well you have tagged what is occurring very well.
Remember, there is not much money (Donations) to be made in solving the problem, but tons to be made in prolonging the solution and blaming the other side.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:29 am

casinterest wrote:
Well you have tagged what is occurring very well.
Remember, there is not much money (Donations) to be made in solving the problem, but tons to be made in prolonging the solution and blaming the other side.


LOL. you said it more succinctly than I did ;)
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:16 am

Cas does nail that pretty well. Government is useless if it doesnt have a problem to solve.

That being said. Something has been stewing in my mind of late. The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would. Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:34 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Cas does nail that pretty well. Government is useless if it doesnt have a problem to solve.

That being said. Something has been stewing in my mind of late. The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would. Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.


Let;s look at it another way. In the land of Government takeovers of civilians, how much is an ASSAULT rifle going to matter ? But those theories are usually promoted by the far right that forgets most government employees are citizens as well.

Also , most citizens that understand how the Constitution actually works, would prefer to see the processes that get rid of wannabe fascists like Trump occur. Impeachment being the main one.
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Spar
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:39 am

trpmb6 wrote:
The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would.
Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.

Honestly?
Really, honestly?

It sounds like so many other right wing inane attempts at drawing parallels where there are none.
Groping at things that superficially sound good but even grade school kids could quickly figure out don't really fit together.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:16 am

casinterest wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Cas does nail that pretty well. Government is useless if it doesnt have a problem to solve.

That being said. Something has been stewing in my mind of late. The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would. Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.


Let;s look at it another way. In the land of Government takeovers of civilians, how much is an ASSAULT rifle going to matter ? But those theories are usually promoted by the far right that forgets most government employees are citizens as well.

Also , most citizens that understand how the Constitution actually works, would prefer to see the processes that get rid of wannabe fascists like Trump occur. Impeachment being the main one.


Assault weapons were banned long ago.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:18 am

Spar wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would.
Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.

Honestly?
Really, honestly?

It sounds like so many other right wing inane attempts at drawing parallels where there are none.
Groping at things that superficially sound good but even grade school kids could quickly figure out don't really fit together.


High school kids who've taken european history courses would understand that Trump's administration doesn't mimic a fascist government like Hitler's in any form. Or Mussolini.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:29 am

Let me put it this way.

Tomorrow Trump announces a 100% gun ban with a mandatory confiscation of all firearms.

How does the left respond?

I'll provide an insight. They will cry foul. They will claim he is trying to become a dictator. That's what would be said I such scenario.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:42 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Let me put it this way.

Tomorrow Trump announces a 100% gun ban with a mandatory confiscation of all firearms.

How does the left respond?

I'll provide an insight. They will cry foul. They will claim he is trying to become a dictator. That's what would be said I such scenario.


Of course it's easy for you to build that strawman, safe in knowledge that it will never happen. :sarcastic:
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:07 am

trpmb6 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Cas does nail that pretty well. Government is useless if it doesnt have a problem to solve.

That being said. Something has been stewing in my mind of late. The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would. Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.


Let;s look at it another way. In the land of Government takeovers of civilians, how much is an ASSAULT rifle going to matter ? But those theories are usually promoted by the far right that forgets most government employees are citizens as well.

Also , most citizens that understand how the Constitution actually works, would prefer to see the processes that get rid of wannabe fascists like Trump occur. Impeachment being the main one.


Assault weapons were banned long ago.


But not assault rifles. Time to add them to the list.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:17 am

Assault rifles are hard to gain access to.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:15 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
The left wants to label Trump a fascist yet they also want to enact strict gun control laws like a fascist regime would.

I didn't know Jacinda Ardern was a fascist dictator. Gonna have to strike out New Zealand from my list of places to visit.

trpmb6 wrote:
Honestly surprised the left isn't championing the second amendment at this point if Trump is such a dictator.

Probably for the same reason few gun owners attempt to threaten a politician: it's the government. Your right to own guns is not unlimited to the point where you can threaten anyone.

As soon as you aim towards a government official, you're committing a crime. That's why the idea of the 2nd Amendment "to protect against tyrannical government" is a bunch of hogwash.
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CarlosSi
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:39 pm

And as a constituent, I don’t give a flying beaver’s construction project. Whatever it takes, whoever it takes, get that legislation passed.
 
extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:23 am

Tragedy happens, and the solution is to give your rights away to the government? Damn sad. If you had it your way, what happens in Chicago would happen all across the country.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:05 am

extender wrote:
Tragedy happens


So that will be your response when an idiot with an AR-15 guns down your family?

* shoulder shrug *

"What can you do? Tragedy happens."

extender wrote:
and the solution is to give your rights away to the government? Damn sad.


What's damned sad is folks believing their right to a gun trumps everyone else's right to a life not ended by a nut with a gun.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 am

It is personal accountability after all. Blame everyone else but yourself, right? Any right that you disagree with must be wrong. Is the right to self defense wrong?
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:44 am

extender wrote:
...Any right that you disagree with must be wrong. Is the right to self defense wrong?


No of course not. But one that results in the deaths of 30,000 people per year? At just what level does the level become unacceptable to you? Never? When your nearest and nearest are effected?

For a country that has so much organised religion, some of you guys are incredibly, incredibly selfish.
 
extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:59 am

Funny, how a respected academic has come under such scorn from the left when he tweets that in a 48 hour period, 500 people die to medical errors, 300 to the flu, 250 to suicide, 200 to car accidents, and 40 to homicide with a handgun. You will probably lump the suicides in. Are we going to give up our selfish mobile phones, after all, deadly accidents are on the rise?
 
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:01 pm

extender wrote:
Funny, how a respected academic has come under such scorn from the left when he tweets that in a 48 hour period, 500 people die to medical errors, 300 to the flu, 250 to suicide, 200 to car accidents, and 40 to homicide with a handgun. You will probably lump the suicides in. Are we going to give up our selfish mobile phones, after all, deadly accidents are on the rise?


Comparing mass shooting deaths with deaths due to accidents and illness is intellectually bankrupt.

Nobody chooses to get ill and die. Nobody chooses to have an accident and die. Surgeons and doctors don't chose to make mistakes and cause deaths. On the other hand, heavily armed mass shooters absolutely choose to kill. It's not even a subtle difference.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:10 pm

My guns haven't leapt into action and caused a mass shooting. Choosing to kill, can be done with airplanes, box cutters, cars, trucks, knives, car/truck bombs. Are you going to ban those as well?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:19 pm

extender wrote:
My guns haven't leapt into action and caused a mass shooting. Choosing to kill, can be done with airplanes, box cutters, cars, trucks, knives, car/truck bombs. Are you going to ban those as well?


What purpose do your "guns" serve for you ? Guns are a tool designed to kill. Other than Car/Truck bombs which are illegal, these other items do not have the main design intention of death and harm
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:23 pm

extender wrote:
Tragedy happens, and the solution is to give your rights away to the government? Damn sad. If you had it your way, what happens in Chicago would happen all across the country.

No. If we had it our way, each state would be free to enact legislation of their own regarding weapons, which means that guns would have a much harder time getting to Chicago in the first place. If Alabama wants to have guns in every corner, have at it. If California wants to enact the same restrictions to guns as Alabama does to abortion, have at it.

extender wrote:
Funny, how a respected academic has come under such scorn from the left when he tweets that in a 48 hour period, 500 people die to medical errors, 300 to the flu, 250 to suicide, 200 to car accidents, and 40 to homicide with a handgun. You will probably lump the suicides in. Are we going to give up our selfish mobile phones, after all, deadly accidents are on the rise?

The day doctors willingly choose to make mistakes, you may have an argument. The day the flu vaccine is made mandatory and people still die, you may have an argument. When suicides impact you, you may have an argument. When those 200 people in car accidents were killed because one single driver mowed them down, you may have an argument.

The main point here is comparing someone taking a gun (no, not a gun...an assault rifle) and going on a rampage under heated motives to what are accidents and medical issues.

extender wrote:
My guns haven't leapt into action and caused a mass shooting.

Neither has my car (like your previous post), yet I still have to be licensed, pass two tests, and get insurance before I can even go to a dealer and buy a car.

extender wrote:
Choosing to kill, can be done with airplanes, box cutters, cars, trucks, knives, car/truck bombs. Are you going to ban those as well?
The main purpose of an airplane, cars, and trucks is transportation. The main purpose of a box cutter is (as the name implies) cut open boxes. The main purpose of a knife is to cut through things. And let me know where car/truck bombs are being sold so I can avoid the area.

What is the purpose of a gun (assault rifle included)?
Last edited by einsteinboricua on Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:24 pm

Hunt, recreation; not that I have to justify their ownership to anyone. Yes, guns are tools. Some are designed for sporting purposes alone.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:50 pm

extender wrote:
Hunt, recreation; not that I have to justify their ownership to anyone. Yes, guns are tools. Some are designed for sporting purposes alone.


Like what target practice(to practice aim) ? Clay shooting (to simulate bird hunting), Guns are weapons to kill. Yes that falls under the tool definition, but calling guns tools is like describing people as part of the mammals group.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:55 pm

Only to you. I do not hunt fowl, but do enjoy trap & skeet. We'll agree to disagree.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:02 pm

extender wrote:
Only to you. I do not hunt fowl, but do enjoy trap & skeet. We'll agree to disagree.


And do you need a semi Automatic with bump stock and more than 10 bullet magazines to do that?
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FatCat
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:28 pm

casinterest wrote:
Well you have tagged what is occurring very well.
Remember, there is not much money (Donations) to be made in solving the problem, but tons to be made in prolonging the solution and blaming the other side.

May I ask maybe a stupid question.
I'm not really into the US democracy, so that's why I am asking.
Why paying politicians in the US is called lobbying and it's perfectly legal and in the rest of the World is called bribery and it's against the law?
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
Only to you. I do not hunt fowl, but do enjoy trap & skeet. We'll agree to disagree.


And do you need a semi Automatic with bump stock and more than 10 bullet magazines to do that?


You see, that has already been dispelled, bump stocks are no longer allowed. And you don't use a magazine-fed shotgun for trap and skeet. But a semi is good when you are shooting a round by yourself and want to bang all five clays in a short time span. Otherwise, an OU or pump works just as fine.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:30 pm

extender wrote:
Hunt
Unless you intend to care for the hunted target and nurse it back to health, it's clear that the intent is to kill it (whether you plan to consume it or decorate with it is irrelevant).

extender wrote:
recreation
Then why is there a need to open carry or conceal carry? How does the ability to carry a gun openly wherever match with "recreation"?

extender wrote:
not that I have to justify their ownership to anyone.
Perhaps not. But you're the one telling us why guns are so funtastic so it's fair to ask why someone would want to own a tool that's designed to kill.

extender wrote:
Yes, guns are tools. Some are designed for sporting purposes alone.
What sporting purpose? Aiming? You can do that with pellet guns. Hunt? See the first quote of this post.
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm

FatCat wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Well you have tagged what is occurring very well.
Remember, there is not much money (Donations) to be made in solving the problem, but tons to be made in prolonging the solution and blaming the other side.

May I ask maybe a stupid question.
I'm not really into the US democracy, so that's why I am asking.
Why paying politicians in the US is called lobbying and it's perfectly legal and in the rest of the World is called bribery and it's against the law?

Bribery goes directly to a back pocket. Donations are done through PACS, Election Funds, and generally back laundered a million times, and wind up with some sort of paid speech directly to the politician or their interests.
It's a gray area :)
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:34 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
Only to you. I do not hunt fowl, but do enjoy trap & skeet. We'll agree to disagree.


And do you need a semi Automatic with bump stock and more than 10 bullet magazines to do that?


You see, that has already been dispelled, bump stocks are no longer allowed. And you don't use a magazine-fed shotgun for trap and skeet. But a semi is good when you are shooting a round by yourself and want to bang all five clays in a short time span. Otherwise, an OU or pump works just as fine.


And that is fine for sport hunting. I am not suggesting getting rid of all guns. Just guns and their parts lists that can make them into close to automatic assault rifles.
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scbriml
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:35 pm

extender wrote:
My guns haven't leapt into action and caused a mass shooting. Choosing to kill, can be done with airplanes, box cutters, cars, trucks, knives, car/truck bombs. Are you going to ban those as well?


More intellectually bankrupt arguments. You really need to try a lot harder. Try something outside the NRA playbook.
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extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:35 pm

Here we go, A) It is called hunting, not maiming. Are you going to complain about bows & arrows, crosbows?

B) What does recreation have to do with open or concealed carry?

C) I have spearguns and compound bows. Why should you be able to dictate how I enjoy my life?

D) Targetshooting, you know it is even an Olympic event? Pellet guns are short ranged, nothing mor satisfying than banging steel at 1000 metres.
 
extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:36 pm

Intellectually bankrupt? I don't do NRA. No, YOU need to try harder, you aren't convincing anyone.
 
FatCat
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
FatCat wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Well you have tagged what is occurring very well.
Remember, there is not much money (Donations) to be made in solving the problem, but tons to be made in prolonging the solution and blaming the other side.

May I ask maybe a stupid question.
I'm not really into the US democracy, so that's why I am asking.
Why paying politicians in the US is called lobbying and it's perfectly legal and in the rest of the World is called bribery and it's against the law?

Bribery goes directly to a back pocket. Donations are done through PACS, Election Funds, and generally back laundered a million times, and wind up with some sort of paid speech directly to the politician or their interests.
It's a gray area :)

Well it's dark dark grey... Politicians should do the interests of the People, not the interest of Companies or rich individuals... oh wait... that's Communism :lol:

About the topic.
You cannot ban easy gun sales in the US. It's a thing called "balance of the force", and it is very easily explained when talking about nuclear weapons: one nuke-capable Country cannot simply give up his nukes, even if it's the best thing to do, simply because the other nuke-capable Countries will not give them up, and there will be a strong unbalance in the force. This is very nicely explained in a 1980s now declassified Sandia Corp. video, by Robert McNamara.
If you live in a Country where everyone has a gun, you should have one too, because only by having the same power of the other individuals, you'll create a balance in the force.

Mass shootings are a thing in the US because the guns can be bought so easily. But as said before, there are many many other ways to hurt a lot of people, even without guns. See Europe's terrorist attacks made with huge trucks. A 40 ton truck coming towards you at 50 mph is as deadly as a bullet.
Thing is, maybe it's a social problem. Not a tool problem. A gun, a rifle is a tool... it's the way you use it that may be a problem.
We here have a problem with men killing women, wifes, fiancées, girfriends. Very rarely a gun is involved, yet those women die eventually... they stab them with knives, roll over with their cars, or give them fire after pouring gasoline on them.
Short sighted opinions on one and on another are equally wrong.
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Reinhardt
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:15 pm

FatCat wrote:
[


About the topic.
You cannot ban easy gun sales in the US. It's a thing called "balance of the force", and it is very easily explained when talking about nuclear weapons: one nuke-capable Country cannot simply give up his nukes, even if it's the best thing to do, simply because the other nuke-capable Countries will not give them up, and there will be a strong unbalance in the force. This is very nicely explained in a 1980s now declassified Sandia Corp. video, by Robert McNamara.
If you live in a Country where everyone has a gun, you should have one too, because only by having the same power of the other individuals, you'll create a balance in the force.

Mass shootings are a thing in the US because the guns can be bought so easily. But as said before, there are many many other ways to hurt a lot of people, even without guns. See Europe's terrorist attacks made with huge trucks. A 40 ton truck coming towards you at 50 mph is as deadly as a bullet.
Thing is, maybe it's a social problem. Not a tool problem. A gun, a rifle is a tool... it's the way you use it that may be a problem.
We here have a problem with men killing women, wifes, fiancées, girfriends. Very rarely a gun is involved, yet those women die eventually... they stab them with knives, roll over with their cars, or give them fire after pouring gasoline on them.
Short sighted opinions on one and on another are equally wrong.



The US has had had decade after decade of tens of thousands of deaths and yet nothing done by either Democrat or Republican govenment have been able to fix the 'social problems' that people indicate could be the causes.

Yes there are plenty of other ways for people to kill each other. Stabbing, driving vans at people etc. And guess what? When it happens we take action to try and ensure it doesn't happen again. We introduce laws to allow stop and search of suspects carrying knifes, we build metal posts in roads to stop people driving into pedestrianised areas in cities. We take action to try and some any of these things as best we can. Yet when it's about guns... nothing.

If it's mental health issues, then what's the problem with mental health in America? Is not enough money spent on it? Do people not have access to it?

In some parts of the US I completely accept that a form of gun is a tool and in some cases is required for security. But in most of America it isn't one that's required. It's purely for the fun of having a gun. If you need it for home protection, then your police force isn't doing it's job right. Vote in a new chief of police, vote in a new Govenment who fixes your problems. Spend more money on the Police. If you need a gun at home then it should be locked up in an approved safe and should be checked by the police. Come up with solutions. It's 2019. Having thousands of people killed each year because of guns is insane.
 
extender
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:21 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
It's purely for the fun of having a gun. If you need it for home protection, then your police force isn't doing it's job right. Vote in a new chief of police, vote in a new Govenment who fixes your problems. Spend more money on the Police. Come up with solutions. It's 2019. Having thousands of people killed each year because of guns is insane.


Fun? You trivialize way too much. It is a serious responsibility.

News flash, the police isn't in the job of keeping you safe. Please explain all the gun deaths in Chicago; guns are illegal. Therein lies the problem, you view government as the solution; it isn't. Solutions? How about enforcing laws on the books? To hard for you to conceptualize?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:25 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
FatCat wrote:
[


About the topic.
You cannot ban easy gun sales in the US. It's a thing called "balance of the force", and it is very easily explained when talking about nuclear weapons: one nuke-capable Country cannot simply give up his nukes, even if it's the best thing to do, simply because the other nuke-capable Countries will not give them up, and there will be a strong unbalance in the force. This is very nicely explained in a 1980s now declassified Sandia Corp. video, by Robert McNamara.
If you live in a Country where everyone has a gun, you should have one too, because only by having the same power of the other individuals, you'll create a balance in the force.

Mass shootings are a thing in the US because the guns can be bought so easily. But as said before, there are many many other ways to hurt a lot of people, even without guns. See Europe's terrorist attacks made with huge trucks. A 40 ton truck coming towards you at 50 mph is as deadly as a bullet.
Thing is, maybe it's a social problem. Not a tool problem. A gun, a rifle is a tool... it's the way you use it that may be a problem.
We here have a problem with men killing women, wifes, fiancées, girfriends. Very rarely a gun is involved, yet those women die eventually... they stab them with knives, roll over with their cars, or give them fire after pouring gasoline on them.
Short sighted opinions on one and on another are equally wrong.


Lets say you're right.

You've had decade after decade of tens of thousands of deaths and yet nothing done by either Democrat or Republican govenment have been able to fix the 'social problems' that you indicate are the causes.

Yes there are plenty of other ways for people to kill each other. Stabbing, driving vans at people etc. And guess what? When it happens we take action to try and ensure it doesn't happen again. We introduce laws to allow stop and search of suspects carrying knifes, we build metal posts in roads to stop people driving into pedestrianised areas in cities. We take action to try and some any of these things as best we can. Yet when it's about guns... nothing.

If you say it's people with mental health issues, then what's the problem with mental health in America? Is not enough money spent on it? Do people not have access to it?

In some parts of the US I completely accept that a form of gun is a tool and in some cases is required for security. But in most of America it isn't one that's required. It's purely for the fun of having a gun. If you need it for home protection, then your police force isn't doing it's job right. Vote in a new chief of police, vote in a new Govenment who fixes your problems. Spend more money on the Police. If you need a gun at home then it should be locked up in an approved safe and should be checked by the police. Come up with solutions. It's 2019. Having thousands of people killed each year because of guns is insane.


https://www.npr.org/2017/11/30/56747716 ... lth-crisis

Of course, inside that article they note that:

"There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law.


But my personal opinion, and I'm not a mental health expert, is that it seems pretty obvious to me that the folks that do these mass shootings tend to be fairly disturbed individuals.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:35 pm

extender wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
It's purely for the fun of having a gun. If you need it for home protection, then your police force isn't doing it's job right. Vote in a new chief of police, vote in a new Govenment who fixes your problems. Spend more money on the Police. Come up with solutions. It's 2019. Having thousands of people killed each year because of guns is insane.


Fun? You trivialize way too much. It is a serious responsibility.

News flash, the police isn't in the job of keeping you safe. Please explain all the gun deaths in Chicago; guns are illegal. Therein lies the problem, you view government as the solution; it isn't. Solutions? How about enforcing laws on the books? To hard for you to conceptualize?


The reason for owning it if not for protection, is for recreation correct? For fun. I ruled out the need for protection for most people, or at least they shouldn't have that need so that's what's left.

I guess we have a very different viewpoint to what the Police are for and what they do then. In the UK the Police are of the people, they are not the govenment. If you need assistance you call and they come. Bobbies walk down the street and chat. If you need them they come. It's simple. In a way they do indeed keep you safe, whilst upholding the law.

Guns in Chigago - I already replied to you about this in another thread. Guns aren't illegal outside of Chicago so suprise surpise people bring them in.

Of course I view govenment in part of the solution. I vote them in to run the country and fix what needs fixing. If they don't do it I vote them out.

Why aren't existing laws enforced then?
 
seb146
Posts: 20202
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:57 pm

The thread starts off with "BOTH SIDES DO IT!!!" to let everyone know that gun violence is a right or something but the fact is that Democrats are willing to talk about doing something about these domestic terror events. Republicans refuse to even acknowledge there is a problem.

Also, there is a meme that always circulates after these domestic terror shootings about taking guns to school when we were kids. The difference was that we did not have access to the weapons of mass destruction we have access to now.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20202
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:01 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
extender wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
It's purely for the fun of having a gun. If you need it for home protection, then your police force isn't doing it's job right. Vote in a new chief of police, vote in a new Govenment who fixes your problems. Spend more money on the Police. Come up with solutions. It's 2019. Having thousands of people killed each year because of guns is insane.


Fun? You trivialize way too much. It is a serious responsibility.

News flash, the police isn't in the job of keeping you safe. Please explain all the gun deaths in Chicago; guns are illegal. Therein lies the problem, you view government as the solution; it isn't. Solutions? How about enforcing laws on the books? To hard for you to conceptualize?


The reason for owning it if not for protection, is for recreation correct? For fun. I ruled out the need for protection for most people, or at least they shouldn't have that need so that's what's left.

I guess we have a very different viewpoint to what the Police are for and what they do then. In the UK the Police are of the people, they are not the govenment. If you need assistance you call and they come. Bobbies walk down the street and chat. If you need them they come. It's simple. In a way they do indeed keep you safe, whilst upholding the law.

Guns in Chigago - I already replied to you about this in another thread. Guns aren't illegal outside of Chicago so suprise surpise people bring them in.

Of course I view govenment in part of the solution. I vote them in to run the country and fix what needs fixing. If they don't do it I vote them out.

Why aren't existing laws enforced then?


Existing laws are not enforce because "they are too hard to enforce" and we don't want to trample anyone's Second Amendment rights.

If a person needs a high capacity magazine and that much firepower "for fun" then maybe go to a shooting range and rent one. How about having one in your home that can only shoot one round? I get these ammosexuals need to have a physical manifestation of fun. "But I NEED to squeeze off 50 rounds a minute!" well, go the the shooting range and rent one kept securely on site. What well regulated militia do you belong to that you NEED this kind of firepower in your home?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GDB
Posts: 13232
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
extender wrote:
My guns haven't leapt into action and caused a mass shooting. Choosing to kill, can be done with airplanes, box cutters, cars, trucks, knives, car/truck bombs. Are you going to ban those as well?


More intellectually bankrupt arguments. You really need to try a lot harder. Try something outside the NRA playbook.


You're a parent, what age were your kids when they bypassed the level of reasoning, ability to think critically that you encounter here?

On a more subject related note, 10 years after his warnings were ignored, for politically wilful reasons, someone who actually knows what they are talking about, as opposed to stupid shit on FOX or whatever, is interviewed;
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ce-analyst
 
extender
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
If a person needs a high capacity magazine and that much firepower "for fun" then maybe go to a shooting range and rent one. How about having one in your home that can only shoot one round? I get these ammosexuals need to have a physical manifestation of fun. "But I NEED to squeeze off 50 rounds a minute!" well, go the the shooting range and rent one kept securely on site. What well regulated militia do you belong to that you NEED this kind of firepower in your home?


Name calling, the last vestige of a lost argument. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:24 pm

extender wrote:
Intellectually bankrupt? I don't do NRA. No, YOU need to try harder, you aren't convincing anyone.


Right.

Sticking your fingers in your ears while chanting "La la la, I can't hear you." always works.

So, how about answering the question?
scbriml wrote:
So that will be your response when an idiot with an AR-15 guns down your family?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
extender
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:35 pm

scbriml wrote:
So that will be your response when an idiot with an AR-15 guns down your family?


Here's your answer: Family will be safe. Always go for the switch. Problem solved, got it now?
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:52 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
..because it gives them the perfect excuse to loudly pander to their base and attempt to squeeze a few more votes out of them.
Either party had plenty of time to table sensible gun legislation. In fact, right now the Dems have the majority in the House. During Obama's term they had a total majority.
So let's stop the cat fights on CNN. Buy a walk-up ticket at the airport and fly to DC right now. It is 9 PM EST and I am sure there are plenty of flights to DC. Table legislation and vote on it first thing tomorrow morning. If the Senate does not go along, call them out. But only THEN. Not before.

Of course, politicians won't do what I suggested. Because it is better for them to pander to their base and get reelected perpetually, then actually doing their job (meaning, doing what's best in the interest of The People).

Just to make it clear:IT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES.

(Yes, I am very cynical. I became that by moving from Holland to the USA).

The Democratic House did pass a gun bill in February. The Senate has yet to do anything with it.https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/ar ... -purchases
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
seb146
Posts: 20202
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:27 am

extender wrote:
seb146 wrote:
If a person needs a high capacity magazine and that much firepower "for fun" then maybe go to a shooting range and rent one. How about having one in your home that can only shoot one round? I get these ammosexuals need to have a physical manifestation of fun. "But I NEED to squeeze off 50 rounds a minute!" well, go the the shooting range and rent one kept securely on site. What well regulated militia do you belong to that you NEED this kind of firepower in your home?


Name calling, the last vestige of a lost argument. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.


YAY MURDER! YAY HATE!! that is your rebuttal. As far as "name calling" I just report what I see. People demanding everyone have access to military grade weapons of mass destruction because "the Second Amendment says so" are simply ammosexuals and/or do not understand context and history. I am trying to work with other consenting adults to do what makes them happy. If people want to use a hand held WMD and pop off 50 rounds a minute, who am I to stop them? But, at the same time, why make it available to the general public?

There are rules and safety procedures in place to drive a Mack truck, too. Why? Too many people not using them correctly. Look up the story of the Mansfield bar. In virtually any other field. when something goes wrong that injures or kills multiple people at once, something is done quickly so it does not happen again. But with guns? nope. can't. no reason.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20202
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:28 am

extender wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So that will be your response when an idiot with an AR-15 guns down your family?


Here's your answer: Family will be safe. Always go for the switch. Problem solved, got it now?


How many families said that in El Paso, Gilroy, Dayton, Las Vegas, Orlando, Charleston....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17253
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Guns violence: Politicans secretly love it

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:37 am

extender wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So that will be your response when an idiot with an AR-15 guns down your family?


Here's your answer: Family will be safe. Always go for the switch. Problem solved, got it now?


Oh, so you're one of those delude "good guys" who's guarding his whole family 24x7? :sarcastic:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.

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