BN747
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What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:32 am

Obama signs on as Joe Biden's VP...

There's no law preventing it.

Stranger things are happening...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:27 am

Nik...don't even take this as a sign off on Biden!

He's too old dragging antiquated thoughts...the next president MUST be capable of opening a G-mail account without assistance! He/She must have grasp of today's digital world beyond Twitter. No more pen and paper/typewriter guys!

But for shits n giggles...it be mindblowing for a Biden/Obama 2020 ticket. Fux News would implode!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:08 am

A Biden/Obama ticket will mean a second term for Trump, most definitely.
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seat64k
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:17 pm

Now this raises an interesting question. If Biden wins with Obama as vice president, what would happen if Biden kicks the bucket 2 months into his term? Can Obama legally become president?
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:20 pm

seat64k wrote:
Now this raises an interesting question. If Biden wins with Obama as vice president, what would happen if Biden kicks the bucket 2 months into his term? Can Obama legally become president?


You can only be elected to be President twice, as a VP he wouldn´t be elected President. However, he can not serve in the office for more than 10 years, so his new VP would be the next President after Obama resigns in time to stay within the 10 year limit i would guess.

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einsteinboricua
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:46 pm

seat64k wrote:
Now this raises an interesting question. If Biden wins with Obama as vice president, what would happen if Biden kicks the bucket 2 months into his term? Can Obama legally become president?

Yes he can. He wasn't elected president, so the wording on the Constitution doesn't prevent him from taking the oath a third time, but that would mean he can't run for reelection. The 22dn Amendment is clear in that it explicitly mentions:
22nd Amendment wrote:
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice...


There's a possible conflict with the 12th Amendment which at the end states:
12th Amendment wrote:
But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.


In the general scheme of things, because the 12th Amendment was passed before the 22nd (duh!), the 12th Amendment is seen to deal only with eligibility in terms of the age, citizenship, and residency criteria (i.e. be over 35, natural born citizen, and resided under US jurisdiction for 14 years), meaning that a person cannot be VP is they fail to meet this criteria. The 22nd stopped short of including a VP but the general consensus (although untested in courts) seems to be that if you're ineligible to be president due to the 22nd Amendment (i.e. if you've been elected twice or served more than 2 years of an unfinished term and elected outright for a second term), you'd also be ineligible for VP. But again, it hasn't been tried and if you're a strict constitutional interpreter, then there are no restrictions.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:03 pm

This has been argued before, I don’t have a quick link, but most constitutional scholars agreed Obama is disqualified to be VP because of the 12th Amendment. You have to look at the process as whole. The 12th says the VP has to be meet the qualifications as President, the 22nd says he can’t serve more than 2 terms or more than 2 years of an unfinished term. Ain’t happening.

GF
 
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trpmb6
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:25 pm

12th amendment prevents it.

Besides. If Michelle doesn't want to run, what makes you think Barack would have any interest in running.
 
seb146
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:49 pm

I know this will not happen but:

Biden/Obama win. Democrats keep control of the House. AOC is elected Speaker. Obama, ineligible to serve as president and, therefore, vice-president, resigns before he takes oath of office. AOC is not eligible to serve as president because of her age, so who would be VP in that scenario? Would we be going by the line of succession with AOC not being able to serve her full duties as Speaker?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:07 pm

Obama is a politician. A good one, that managed to pass a signature legislation in his first term. There is no real incentive for him to seek power again.

In France former presidents are said to be at the ready to get back in power if the "people call them". All these former presidents were one term presidents, though (those who made 2 terms either died shortly after, or are not fit anymore). Recently, Nicolas Sarkozy actually tried, he participated in the 2017 right-wing primary. I participated in that primary to be sure he wouldn't get chosen... François Hollande is doing a book tour around the country at the moment, enjoying his new found popularity (of course, his opponents don't bother to attend, only his fans...), dropping cues here and there that he might try a comeback.
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trpmb6
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 pm

seb146 wrote:
I know this will not happen but:

Biden/Obama win. Democrats keep control of the House. AOC is elected Speaker. Obama, ineligible to serve as president and, therefore, vice-president, resigns before he takes oath of office. AOC is not eligible to serve as president because of her age, so who would be VP in that scenario? Would we be going by the line of succession with AOC not being able to serve her full duties as Speaker?


Interesting thought experiment. I'm actually not certain that Obama can even be on the ticket actually.

But say he is. As long as the president is alive when the VP resigns he can simply appoint a new VP.

So next question, does that new VP have to be senate confirmed?
 
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casinterest
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm

What if Next Summer the democrats work on a ticket that can win with some youthful folks.
Biden is not the young one that can win over the nations imagination.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:13 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
This has been argued before, I don’t have a quick link, but most constitutional scholars agreed Obama is disqualified to be VP because of the 12th Amendment. You have to look at the process as whole. The 12th says the VP has to be meet the qualifications as President, the 22nd says he can’t serve more than 2 terms or more than 2 years of an unfinished term. Ain’t happening.

GF


trpmb6 wrote:
12th amendment prevents it.


Amendments to the Constitution are like amendments to a contract: when there's the potential for conflict with terms that are not meant to be affected, the amendments need to be specific as to what they are modifying, and if there's still any ambiguity, it benefits the party that did not pass it (in the case of a Constitution, if a court relies on this logic, the individual's claim should be sustained if they present a valid case that not everyone can interpret correctly).

If the 22nd had come before the 12th, we'd all be in agreement that a VP could not serve since it specifically calls out the conditions for electing a president and then the 12th tells you that if you can't be elected to the presidency you can't run for VP. In this case, a 4th condition would be added to eligibility for the presidency, and then you tie in the VP eligibility with it.

Someone who says the 12th prevents the VP from running "no questions asked" essentially concedes that the Constitution is alive and that amendments can subsequently evolve (without needing to reword them) and adapt to current times. If not, then you must look at the context for when the 12th was passed and agree that it refers to the 3 main eligibility criteria (age, citizenship, residency).

Again, I would agree that a president running for VP is not in the nation's best interest and that the 22nd attempted to discourage that (though you'd have to wonder if anyone would be crazy enough to attempt it). However, because the 22nd only explicitly added a condition to be eligible for the presidency and not the vice presidency, the 12th amendment only says that to be VP you need to meet the age, citizenship, and residency criteria. The 22nd, as written, also allows a VP to be reelected over and over again (again, it only explicitly mentions the president).

If you still say that the 12th overrules the 22nd, then essentially, no ruling can ever be made with the 14th and 15th amendments because the 10th would always reign (in other words, your interpretation would be that earlier amendments take precedence over latter ones). In a contract, that does not vibe (and that's the reason for amendments...to change or clarify original content).

If no one wants this to be tried in courts and we want to close the loophole, get Congress to pass an amendment that works as an amendment to an amendment...something like:

Section 1: "Section 1 of the 22nd Amendment to this Constitution is amended to the following:
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice nor shall such person be elected or appointed as Vice-President... (you officially tie in VP eligibility to that of the president: if a president has been elected twice, they are ineligible to be elected or appointed as VP).

Section 2: No person that is ineligible to be elected Vice-President (we take into account that someone that doesn't meet the 3 basic criteria and has already been elected twice) shall be appointed to the office of Vice-President. In the event that such person is serving in a Cabinet position or as Speaker of the House or as Senate President Pro Tempore, such person shall be ineligible to be sworn as Vice-President or as President and shall be passed to the next eligible person in the line of succession. (in here, you also take another backdoor which is the order of succession; if someone is not eligible to be POTUS or VP, they have to be passed over in the event that a vacancy occurs and they're next in line).
Last edited by einsteinboricua on Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Magog
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:22 pm

Why would Obama want a pay cut? It will never happen.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:32 pm

Magog wrote:
Why would Obama want a pay cut? It will never happen.

Not everyone is in it for the money.

Besides, it's that what Trump is claimed to have done (reject the salary and therefore take a YUUGE paycut)?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
seb146
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:35 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I know this will not happen but:

Biden/Obama win. Democrats keep control of the House. AOC is elected Speaker. Obama, ineligible to serve as president and, therefore, vice-president, resigns before he takes oath of office. AOC is not eligible to serve as president because of her age, so who would be VP in that scenario? Would we be going by the line of succession with AOC not being able to serve her full duties as Speaker?


Interesting thought experiment. I'm actually not certain that Obama can even be on the ticket actually.

But say he is. As long as the president is alive when the VP resigns he can simply appoint a new VP.

So next question, does that new VP have to be senate confirmed?


I think it would go by line of succession. So, if in my scenario, AOC would be ineligible, the next in line is president pro tempore of the Senate, then Secretary of State, Treasury, Defense, Attorney General, and so on. Depending on which party has the majority in which branch, they may go through a second confirmation hearing.

Interesting thoughts.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Ken777
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:08 am

Obama simply would not want it - he has far more influence right where he is. How important has the Pillsbury Muffin Man been for Trump? Not Obama's style. it"ll be interesting to see who the Dems pick for the VP spot - it will be someone who can bake the Muffin Man in debates.
 
NIKV69
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:20 am

BN747 wrote:
Nik...don't even take this as a sign off on Biden!

He's too old dragging antiquated thoughts...the next president MUST be capable of opening a G-mail account without assistance! He/She must have grasp of today's digital world beyond Twitter. No more pen and paper/typewriter guys!

But for shits n giggles...it be mindblowing for a Biden/Obama 2020 ticket. Fux News would implode!

BN747


I am very disappointed in how Biden has campaigned. He didn't prepare for the first debate and got schooled. He isn't inspiring when he talks and still creeps me out. With that said he is picking either Klobuchar or Warren to run wit him. Obama would never say yes to that ticket. Though it would be some news cycle!
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die,
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:19 am

Ken777 wrote:
Obama simply would not want it - he has far more influence right where he is. How important has the Pillsbury Muffin Man been for Trump? Not Obama's style. it"ll be interesting to see who the Dems pick for the VP spot - it will be someone who can bake the Muffin Man in debates.

No better contrast than Buttigieg:
-Old vs young
-Non Veteran vs veteran
-Uber Christian vs Christian
-Straight vs gay
-Both from Indiana (no such thing as casting Buttigieg as a coastal liberal elite).
-Political insider (MP) vs political outsider (PB).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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stl07
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:43 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Obama simply would not want it - he has far more influence right where he is. How important has the Pillsbury Muffin Man been for Trump? Not Obama's style. it"ll be interesting to see who the Dems pick for the VP spot - it will be someone who can bake the Muffin Man in debates.

No better contrast than Buttigieg:
-Old vs young
-Non Veteran vs veteran
-Uber Christian vs Christian
-Straight vs gay
-Both from Indiana (no such thing as casting Buttigieg as a coastal liberal elite).
-Political insider (MP) vs political outsider (PB).

wouldn't trump be more considered a "coastal elitist" considering that is exactly what he is...A rich man who lives on the coast
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:53 am

stl07 wrote:
wouldn't trump be more considered a "coastal elitist" considering that is exactly what he is...A rich man who lives on the coast

Shhh...don't tell our resident MAGATS that. It's all a ruse: he's a coastal elite that is going to save the Heartland because even though he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, that's exactly why he's their guy: he's their mole in that region and he's gonna stick it to them liberal coastal elites...because even though he is one, he isn't!
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TWA772LR
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:59 am

Theres a better chance of a giant comet crashing in to the Earth.
When wasn't America great?


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TWA772LR
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:00 am

BN747 wrote:
Obama signs on as Joe Biden's VP...

There's no law preventing it.

Stranger things are happening...

BN747

Theres no law preventing it. But lets say Biden kicks the bucket/resigns while in office, Obama can only be POTUS for another 2 years
When wasn't America great?


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Concierge
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:04 pm

seb146 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I know this will not happen but:

Biden/Obama win. Democrats keep control of the House. AOC is elected Speaker. Obama, ineligible to serve as president and, therefore, vice-president, resigns before he takes oath of office. AOC is not eligible to serve as president because of her age, so who would be VP in that scenario? Would we be going by the line of succession with AOC not being able to serve her full duties as Speaker?


Interesting thought experiment. I'm actually not certain that Obama can even be on the ticket actually.

But say he is. As long as the president is alive when the VP resigns he can simply appoint a new VP.

So next question, does that new VP have to be senate confirmed?


I th ink it would go by line of succession. So, if in my scenario, AOC would be ineligible, the next in line is president pro tempore of the Senate, then Secretary of State, Treasury, Defense, Attorney General, and so on. Depending on which party has the majority in which branch, they may go through a second confirmation hearing.

Interesting thoughts.


New V P nominated by the POTUS , must be confirmed by a majority of both houses of Congress. Happened with Ford who later became POTUS through succession after Nixon's resignation.
 
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ER757
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:21 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Nik...don't even take this as a sign off on Biden!

He's too old dragging antiquated thoughts...the next president MUST be capable of opening a G-mail account without assistance! He/She must have grasp of today's digital world beyond Twitter. No more pen and paper/typewriter guys!

But for shits n giggles...it be mindblowing for a Biden/Obama 2020 ticket. Fux News would implode!

BN747


I am very disappointed in how Biden has campaigned. He didn't prepare for the first debate and got schooled. He isn't inspiring when he talks and still creeps me out. With that said he is picking either Klobuchar or Warren to run wit him. Obama would never say yes to that ticket. Though it would be some news cycle!

I, too am unimpressed with Biden's campaign so far as well as his dismal performance in the debates. Hoping someone moderate comes out of the pack that can be a realistic challenger to Trump in the general election. If it's one of the far left candidates (Warren, Sanders), they will never carry the necessary swing states. It will most likely not happen, but I'd like it to be Gabbard. I was not very familiar with her before the debates, but she has impressed me and I could see voting for her. Perhaps she'll be the VP pick on the ticket?
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: What if Next Summer....

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:19 am

Egypt and Turkey could see reports of overthrown as tourists are coming back to both countries in droves and are stable again.

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