Concierge
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:47 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Concierge wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Then you're a dumb one at that. I'm a Hoosier too, and there's nothing Indiana does to allow for shootings to happen in Chicago. Almost every murder in Chicago is with a handgun. Handguns can only legally be purchased in the state you reside in. So it's already illegal for an Illinois resident to come to Indiana to buy a handgun. People who do illegal things aren't going to be stopped by another unenforceable law.

If liberals cared so much about gun violence, they'd stop going after an "Assault Weapon Ban," and start going after handguns. 96% of gun violence is with handguns. But liberals don't care about black on black crime, they just care about what gets airtime on the evening news and the 24/7 news cycle.


Well aren't you special! Start with an insult, then make a statement of opinion that can't be proven or disproven.

You could look up the source of handguns used in crimes in....never mind, you know better.

And you can read the minds of 'liberals'. How exciting for you!

I concede to your superior knowledge and apparent mind-reading skills.


So your proposal is to add another law, when the criminals already don't follow the law? Stupid is as stupid does. I'm open to common sense talks, if we would start by, say enforcing the laws on the books...


And again - you're open to common sense talks - right after more insults. Reading my mind for a proposal i didn't make. Well, bless your heart.
 
bennett123
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:21 am

For me the interesting bit is the leader of the Free World being warned off by a pressure group.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:09 am

seb146 wrote:
Military weapons should not be in private citizen's hands.


They're not (aside for special exemptions and potential illegal activity).

Still amazes me to see the willingness to trample on extraordinary rights because of an irrational fear.
 
seb146
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:13 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Military weapons should not be in private citizen's hands.


They're not (aside for special exemptions and potential illegal activity).

Still amazes me to see the willingness to trample on extraordinary rights because of an irrational fear.


El Paso, Gilroy, Dayton, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, Stoneman are not "irrational fear" but military grade killing equipment in the hands of private citizens. It amazes me that some people believe murder and guns are more important and everyone else should just be dismissed.

This is what I am talking about. Even self proclaimed encyclopedias of guns don't know what they are talking about.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:37 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Military weapons should not be in private citizen's hands.


They're not (aside for special exemptions and potential illegal activity).

Still amazes me to see the willingness to trample on extraordinary rights because of an irrational fear.


Hmmm, so in that case, I repeat my previous query:

Feelz about guns do not change the reality - after the Heller case, it was clearly established that regulation has a role in 2nd amendment considerations. So let’s play the “answer a question from a federal or SCOTUS justice” game.

Since you argue we are guarding against burgeoning tyranny, that begs this question in court:

‘by what armed mechanism can you identify federal actions currently exercised as instruments of a tyrannical state?’
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
olle
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checksn

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Military weapons should not be in private citizen's hands.


They're not (aside for special exemptions and potential illegal activity).

Still amazes me to see the willingness to trample on extraordinary rights because of an irrational fear.


El Paso, Gilroy, Dayton, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, Stoneman are not "irrational fear" but military grade killing equipment in the hands of private citizens. It amazes me that some people believe murder and guns are more important and everyone else should just be dismissed.

This is what I am talking about. Even self proclaimed encyclopedias of guns don't know what they are talking about.



I think that the gun violence in USA and partly the rest of the world have changed from a group of crazy lunatics getting a weapon and killing a group of people hurting them to terrorism.

Before it was a of some reason hurt studend killing people in his school with the gun his father kept for security.

Then came islamistvterrorism where social media run terrorist groups ran its bussiness with the resistance abc. No organization that fbi or similar organisation can infiltrate and destroy.

Now come the extreme right or nro nazists and cooy a success model. But they have as it seems more financial backing and noone can like with islamists see a dark skinnedperson with barb and feel unsafe. They look like the rest of us in the street. And major powers like russia administration and usa administration even seems to support them.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:32 pm

seb146 wrote:
El Paso, Gilroy, Dayton, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, Stoneman are not "irrational fear" but military grade killing equipment in the hands of private citizens. It amazes me that some people believe murder and guns are more important and everyone else should just be dismissed.

This is what I am talking about. Even self proclaimed encyclopedias of guns don't know what they are talking about.


Quit making false statements. "Military-grade" is highly regulated and unavailable to everyone outside the military expect a select few. The firearms you and I can buy at the store are not "military-grade". Period.

You are more likely to die due to a hammer or blunt object than an "assault" rifle. We only have to ask one question. Is it rational to be more afraid of weapons that are less likely to kill you? Clearly the answer is no. Why are you so afraid of objects that are statistically much less dangerous to you? My question remains - why do you want to give up precious rights because of an irrational fear?
 
seb146
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:36 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
El Paso, Gilroy, Dayton, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, Stoneman are not "irrational fear" but military grade killing equipment in the hands of private citizens. It amazes me that some people believe murder and guns are more important and everyone else should just be dismissed.

This is what I am talking about. Even self proclaimed encyclopedias of guns don't know what they are talking about.


Quit making false statements. "Military-grade" is highly regulated and unavailable to everyone outside the military expect a select few.


They why are so many murdered in such a short period of time as compared to when we had an assault weapons ban?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 20229
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:37 pm

It looks like NRA actually DID support gun control at one point

https://www.history.com/news/black-pant ... MBN2yMUOt0

Of course, it was to keep Black Panthers from stockpiling weapons but now that white people demand all guns all the time.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
stratclub
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:57 pm

bennett123 wrote:
For me the interesting bit is the leader of the Free World being warned off by a pressure group.

Not really. The NRA is just pushing their agenda that firearm ownership should be devoid of any sort of regulation. The Brady Bill is a great example of the NRA's efforts fighting any sort of common sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Han ... ssociation
 
winginit
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:11 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Military weapons should not be in private citizen's hands.


They're not (aside for special exemptions and potential illegal activity).

Still amazes me to see the willingness to trample on extraordinary rights because of an irrational fear.


Do you not yourself justify private gun ownership using the irrational fear that the government might get so oppressive and out of hand that an (inevitably futile) violent overthrow (using guns) would be necessary?

Pot. Kettle.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:50 am

seb146 wrote:
They why are so many murdered in such a short period of time as compared to when we had an assault weapons ban?


Your question would have teeth if it were true. The previous ban was a statistical failure. Interestingly the highest profile shooting took place under the ban. A new bill would be even more misguided as millions more are in circulation. Are you going to answer the question?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:57 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
They why are so many murdered in such a short period of time as compared to when we had an assault weapons ban?


Your question would have teeth if it were true. The previous ban was a statistical failure. Interestingly the highest profile shooting took place under the ban. A new bill would be even more misguided as millions more are in circulation. Are you going to answer the question?


Are you going to answer my question above about tyranny? This is the second go-around already.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MSPNWA
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:39 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Are you going to answer my question above about tyranny? This is the second go-around already.


To save you repeating your posts, ask a valid question first. Then you may get an answer. Your premise (burgeoning tyranny) isn't accurate. That is not a required implication.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:42 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Are you going to answer my question above about tyranny? This is the second go-around already.


To save you repeating your posts, ask a valid question first. Then you may get an answer. Your premise (burgeoning tyranny) isn't accurate. That is not a required implication.


Nice try - but the question is valid. You have stated time and again you need protection against tyranny. Heller and other decisions say reasoned regulation is permissible.

Your side will be called upon in court to present examples or evidence of how firearms others seek to restrict remain necessary to ward off state tyranny. If you cannot define what form this state oppression would take, how can a fair ruling be possible?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Tugger
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:54 pm

More guns, more anything doesn't reduce the incident of the use of that thing. Guns are fine for legal ownership and the fact that there are millions in circulation is also fine. The key thing is guns owners want to follow the law and be legal owners of their firearms and so will follow the law. It is that simple.

Change the laws and owners will comply and over the years the situation will improve. And if it doesn't make more adjustments.

A simple start is to end side sales at shows, personal inheritance etc. without an appropriate background check. And simply make the owner of the firearm liable far any problems if they pass on a firearm improperly.

Another thing to do is to increase the tax on the firearm. Begin a fund to cover the cost of gun deaths, taxing firearms is constitutionally acceptable. Just like any item, there are costs that need to be covered and they should be covered by those that use them (the same goes for pretty much all of our citizens "rights", the public pays for what they use one way of the other). In this case, like tobacco, there is a known item causing damage and so that item is what bears the cost.

Two simple things that will begin (not solve) to improve the situation. There are more, but start with something first and move from there.

I personally like the militia or family rule, someone takes responsibility for your use and handling of a gun, the public controls who gets and uses a firearm, and you need that approval first. No government intrusion, the public/family/militia take responsibility. Oh by the way, that is why states like Wyoming and Vermont etc. with high gun ownership have low rates of related deaths, overwhelmingly someone teaches the person getting the gun how to treat and use it. And no one allows a moron who doesn't respect the weapon, who just flings a gun around to be with them. Again, coming from a hunting family I know this is true.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
seb146
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:28 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
They why are so many murdered in such a short period of time as compared to when we had an assault weapons ban?


Your question would have teeth if it were true. The previous ban was a statistical failure. Interestingly the highest profile shooting took place under the ban. A new bill would be even more misguided as millions more are in circulation. Are you going to answer the question?


https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/75065617 ... -it-expire

The number of mass shootings increased after Republicans allowed the assault weapons ban to expire. The number of dead continue to climb because Republicans refuse to do anything but think and pray.

If we work within the framework of the Second Amendment and the intent of the Founding Fathers, what well regulated militia do you belong to that you need multiple high capacity weapons? Further, before high capacity weapons became widely available because Republicans demand all guns all the time everywhere, the body count from mass shootings was significantly less. These are statistics readily available.

EDIT:

I have scrolled through the thread and have not seen a question you asked. Are you asking why I value my life and have a "fear" of not wanting to be gunned down while walking through a mall or farmer's market or sitting in a class room? Are you asking why I dare value my life above military grade weapons? Is that your question?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
dragon-wings
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Re: NRA warns Trump against universal background checks

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:11 am

Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano

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