WIederling
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:03 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
So none of the blame goes on the people who knew they couldn't afford the first mortgage payment?


false statement.

They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:
What then produced the GFC was having all the time repackaged, self rated to tripple A distributed to the world as structured equity by banks/institutions these overvalued property loans ( while scooping vast amounts of real money into US coffers.)

This was the US and their banks acting in criminal collusion.
Murphy is an optimist
 
apodino
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:16 pm

 
anrec80
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:28 pm

WIederling wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
So none of the blame goes on the people who knew they couldn't afford the first mortgage payment?


false statement.

They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:
What then produced the GFC was having all the time repackaged, self rated to tripple A distributed to the world as structured equity by banks/institutions these overvalued property loans ( while scooping vast amounts of real money into US coffers.)

This was the US and their banks acting in criminal collusion.


Not really. Every responsible home buyer, when putting down an offer, should think “how and when am I going to pay it all back?”. Those subprime borrowers were signing even interest only papers with increasing balances, not thinking about anything, obviously. I don’t see what did the mortgage lenders do wrong, completely following the letter of law. There were, are and always will be many financial products that are capable of destroying lives if abused.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:41 pm

WIederling wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
So none of the blame goes on the people who knew they couldn't afford the first mortgage payment?


false statement.

They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:
What then produced the GFC was having all the time repackaged, self rated to tripple A distributed to the world as structured equity by banks/institutions these overvalued property loans ( while scooping vast amounts of real money into US coffers.)

This was the US and their banks acting in criminal collusion.


Surprisingly, that’s not how one pays off a mortgage—increasing price inflation. A house doesn’t throw off cash profits that service the loan—ONLY the home buyer can service the loan by employing their human capital to produce cash. But many people don’t understand money and enjoy or suffer the consequences their ignorance. The day I signed my mortgage with 25% down was a grim one as my wife reminds me. I looked like a man who had made a deal with the grim reaper. How would I possibly pay it off? Work, my dear boy, work.
 
seat64k
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:31 pm

WIederling wrote:
They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:


I'm pretty sure enough people were defaulting on their mortgages and getting foreclosed on made international news well before September 2008. The first domino, so to speak.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:14 am

anrec80 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
So none of the blame goes on the people who knew they couldn't afford the first mortgage payment?


false statement.

They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:
What then produced the GFC was having all the time repackaged, self rated to tripple A distributed to the world as structured equity by banks/institutions these overvalued property loans ( while scooping vast amounts of real money into US coffers.)

This was the US and their banks acting in criminal collusion.


Not really. Every responsible home buyer, when putting down an offer, should think “how and when am I going to pay it all back?”. Those subprime borrowers were signing even interest only papers with increasing balances, not thinking about anything, obviously. I don’t see what did the mortgage lenders do wrong, completely following the letter of law. There were, are and always will be many financial products that are capable of destroying lives if abused.



BS, not one of the thieves went to jail and now they are bigger and greedier than ever. Thievery and collusion on all fronts by the banks and Wall Street bankrupted millions with out any penalty what so ever, we bailed them out with our money.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:29 am

WarRI1 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
WIederling wrote:

false statement.

They could ( pay back ). as long as the housing bubble grew by way of price inflation in a demand driven market.
What they did not survive was the final blow out. which would have been rather harmless if not:
What then produced the GFC was having all the time repackaged, self rated to tripple A distributed to the world as structured equity by banks/institutions these overvalued property loans ( while scooping vast amounts of real money into US coffers.)

This was the US and their banks acting in criminal collusion.


Not really. Every responsible home buyer, when putting down an offer, should think “how and when am I going to pay it all back?”. Those subprime borrowers were signing even interest only papers with increasing balances, not thinking about anything, obviously. I don’t see what did the mortgage lenders do wrong, completely following the letter of law. There were, are and always will be many financial products that are capable of destroying lives if abused.



BS, not one of the thieves went to jail and now they are bigger and greedier than ever. Thievery and collusion on all fronts by the banks and Wall Street bankrupted millions with out any penalty what so ever, we bailed them out with our money.


Uh...some of them are in prison. And some killed themselves. I'm not sure what more you want. These people would never have qualified for a mortgage in a normal housing market. The old saying of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely is. No one profited from their "misfortune". A house with no equity that's in foreclosure is of no use to an investor. I should know because I made more money from real estate investing than I did at my day job last year. It is pitiful approaching a homeowner with their head in the sand and in complete denial. I give them every opportunity to make a deal before exercising my right as the most senior lien holder and instructing the clerk of the court to take it by force.

These people had nothing invested in the house. They lost nothing.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:38 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Not really. Every responsible home buyer, when putting down an offer, should think “how and when am I going to pay it all back?”. Those subprime borrowers were signing even interest only papers with increasing balances, not thinking about anything, obviously. I don’t see what did the mortgage lenders do wrong, completely following the letter of law. There were, are and always will be many financial products that are capable of destroying lives if abused.



BS, not one of the thieves went to jail and now they are bigger and greedier than ever. Thievery and collusion on all fronts by the banks and Wall Street bankrupted millions with out any penalty what so ever, we bailed them out with our money.


Uh...some of them are in prison. And some killed themselves. I'm not sure what more you want. These people would never have qualified for a mortgage in a normal housing market. The old saying of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely is. No one profited from their "misfortune". A house with no equity that's in foreclosure is of no use to an investor. I should know because I made more money from real estate investing than I did at my day job last year. It is pitiful approaching a homeowner with their head in the sand and in complete denial. I give them every opportunity to make a deal before exercising my right as the most senior lien holder and instructing the clerk of the court to take it by force.

These people had nothing invested in the house. They lost nothing.



The punishment did not fit the crimes enormity. Damn near bankrupted the country, bankrupted millions who did put money down, never mind what it cost retired people such as my two best friends. I retired on a fixed pension, they chose the buy out option, both invested in big funds such as Fidelity's. 50 % of their money gone almost overnight. Don't waste my time with look how the market has grown, BS. When you are living on the money, it does not recover. Neither has ever gotten back to where they were before the collapse. Of course you experts might advise going into more risk stocks. I in my long life and retirement have watched many lose their worth with such stupidity.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:45 am

WarRI1 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:


BS, not one of the thieves went to jail and now they are bigger and greedier than ever. Thievery and collusion on all fronts by the banks and Wall Street bankrupted millions with out any penalty what so ever, we bailed them out with our money.


Uh...some of them are in prison. And some killed themselves. I'm not sure what more you want. These people would never have qualified for a mortgage in a normal housing market. The old saying of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely is. No one profited from their "misfortune". A house with no equity that's in foreclosure is of no use to an investor. I should know because I made more money from real estate investing than I did at my day job last year. It is pitiful approaching a homeowner with their head in the sand and in complete denial. I give them every opportunity to make a deal before exercising my right as the most senior lien holder and instructing the clerk of the court to take it by force.

These people had nothing invested in the house. They lost nothing.



The punishment did not fit the crimes enormity. Damn near bankrupted the country, bankrupted millions who did put money down, never mind what it cost retired people such as my two best friends. I retired on a fixed pension, they chose the buy out option, both invested in big funds such as Fidelity's. 50 % of their money gone almost overnight. Don't waste my time with look how the market has grown, BS. When you are living on the money, it does not recover. Neither has ever gotten back to where they were before the collapse. Of course you experts might advise going into more risk stocks. I in my long life and retirement have watched many lose their worth with such stupidity.


As you age, your investment portfolio should carry less risk. Government liens are very good investments. I am guaranteed to get my initial investment plus 18% interest annually back. And after two years I can take the property if the lien hasn't been redeemed. If you purchase the liens in packages you will be printing money.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:56 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Uh...some of them are in prison. And some killed themselves. I'm not sure what more you want. These people would never have qualified for a mortgage in a normal housing market. The old saying of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely is. No one profited from their "misfortune". A house with no equity that's in foreclosure is of no use to an investor. I should know because I made more money from real estate investing than I did at my day job last year. It is pitiful approaching a homeowner with their head in the sand and in complete denial. I give them every opportunity to make a deal before exercising my right as the most senior lien holder and instructing the clerk of the court to take it by force.

These people had nothing invested in the house. They lost nothing.



The punishment did not fit the crimes enormity. Damn near bankrupted the country, bankrupted millions who did put money down, never mind what it cost retired people such as my two best friends. I retired on a fixed pension, they chose the buy out option, both invested in big funds such as Fidelity's. 50 % of their money gone almost overnight. Don't waste my time with look how the market has grown, BS. When you are living on the money, it does not recover. Neither has ever gotten back to where they were before the collapse. Of course you experts might advise going into more risk stocks. I in my long life and retirement have watched many lose their worth with such stupidity.


As you age, your investment portfolio should carry less risk. Government liens are very good investments. I am guaranteed to get my initial investment plus 18% interest annually back. And after two years I can take the property if the lien hasn't been redeemed. If you purchase the liens in packages you will be printing money.


I have been following the safe route now going on 22 years of retirement. All I wanted after retirement was to stay even and survive financially to pay my bills and leave an estate for my children and grandchildren. So far I have survived financially to attain that goal. Still paying my bills and I am grateful for that. Still alive and certainly grateful for that.Thanks for the advice.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
anrec80
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:14 am

TTailedTiger wrote:

Uh...some of them are in prison. And some killed themselves. I'm not sure what more you want. These people would never have qualified for a mortgage in a normal housing market. The old saying of if it sounds too good to be true then it most likely is. No one profited from their "misfortune". A house with no equity that's in foreclosure is of no use to an investor. I should know because I made more money from real estate investing than I did at my day job last year. It is pitiful approaching a homeowner with their head in the sand and in complete denial. I give them every opportunity to make a deal before exercising my right as the most senior lien holder and instructing the clerk of the court to take it by force.

These people had nothing invested in the house. They lost nothing.



:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Can’t agree more. Mortgage investors and holders haven’t stolen anything from anyone, and haven’t taken anything that isn’t theirs, by any means - be it by the means of law or any other.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:41 am

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenz ... 03127a72a5

When you know you are going to rob the bank, that is premeditated, these people knew they were going to eventually cause a collapse as it always does. They were warned, greed won out, they knew, they knew, they knew. They walked away with 7 trillion in bailout money, it is amazing how you conservatives can so easily accept such immoral business practices so easily. When one accepts immorality, guess what??????
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:56 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2012/06/02/the-2008-meltdown-and-where-the-blame-falls/#2d03127a72a5

When you know you are going to rob the bank, that is premeditated, these people knew they were going to eventually cause a collapse as it always does. They were warned, greed won out, they knew, they knew, they knew. They walked away with 7 trillion in bailout money, it is amazing how you conservatives can so easily accept such immoral business practices so easily. When one accepts immorality, guess what??????


Exactly - just like they accept the 1000% increase in executive pay the last 40 years, while the middle class has been squeezed. Nevermind that consumption was more assured in the 1960s when a single breadwinner with a decent job was enough for a mortgage and a couple kids...they don’t care.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:13 am

Aaron747 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2012/06/02/the-2008-meltdown-and-where-the-blame-falls/#2d03127a72a5

When you know you are going to rob the bank, that is premeditated, these people knew they were going to eventually cause a collapse as it always does. They were warned, greed won out, they knew, they knew, they knew. They walked away with 7 trillion in bailout money, it is amazing how you conservatives can so easily accept such immoral business practices so easily. When one accepts immorality, guess what??????


Exactly - just like they accept the 1000% increase in executive pay the last 40 years, while the middle class has been squeezed. Nevermind that consumption was more assured in the 1960s when a single breadwinner with a decent job was enough for a mortgage and a couple kids...they don’t care.


I have to be careful, so I do not hurt any of this Maniac's supporters feelings and get deleted, but they either do not care, or do not understand or more simply put, are not up to the task. Whew, I had to dig for that one. ;) ;)
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DL717
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:06 pm

winginit wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
If American capitalism is so evil, why do people keep coming to America?


Oh right, because it's the Norwegians, Swedes, Canadians, Austrians, Swiss, and Australians who are coming to America in droves?

Hardly. Honestly what a ridiculously foolish statement.


People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.
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anrec80
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Exactly - just like they accept the 1000% increase in executive pay the last 40 years, while the middle class has been squeezed. Nevermind that consumption was more assured in the 1960s when a single breadwinner with a decent job was enough for a mortgage and a couple kids...they don’t care.


This is what became “trendy” among the “social justice advocates” all over - is counting money that is not theirs hard earned by someone else. And looking who else can beripper off sorry, taxed.

How much CEO gets - it’s up to the company itself, its investors and shareholders. Not someone else. Yes, they get high pay. Nothing in this world is free. Their success is the result of education, countless nights in the office, risk taking, and other hard and complex work. Yes, the word evolves, and things in it change. One of the things CEOs do - adapt to them. Middle class that is claimed to get squeezed - well, it’s squeezed out also by increasing taxes to support this very “social justice” and stuff.

These “social justice advocates” need to adapt their demands and expectations to reality, and not demand from someone else what they didn’t earn.
 
winginit
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:35 pm

DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
If American capitalism is so evil, why do people keep coming to America?


Oh right, because it's the Norwegians, Swedes, Canadians, Austrians, Swiss, and Australians who are coming to America in droves?

Hardly. Honestly what a ridiculously foolish statement.


People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.


That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.
 
apodino
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:39 pm

You know something I have noticed under our system. I have seen time and time again where an individual or a group will have a great idea, build up a huge business around it and it gains a huge following, then they sell it to some big corporation for millions of dollars, then the corporation goes completely away from the original concept, and what you end up is the business that became popular because of the founders vision, is ruined by the corporations that take over it because of "business decisions." Here are a few examples.

1. Star Wars - Lucas didn't need to sell Lucasfilm but he did, and now Disney while trying to milk the franchise is causing some damage to it. I hope it turns around, but who knows.
2. Geek and Sundry - Felicia Day, a woman I absolutely adore, founded this after a webseries called the Guild. This was a great website for all things geek, and partnering with Wil Wheaton for Tabletop really caused this channel to take off. Day sold it to legendary, and it hasn't quite been the same since, and Wheaton is now in a lawsuit with Legendary over an RPG series he produced.
3. ThinkGeek - One of my favorite stores for all things geek, ThinkGeek was great, until they were bought by GameStop. GameStop, whose video game business is stuttering, has stupidly doubled down on it, and is phasing out the ThinkGeek brand.
4. Teavanna - This store had wonderful loose teas and it was always a pleasure to go in and sample the teas. Sadly Starbucks bought them, and shuttered them.

Can you guys think of any others.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:43 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Exactly - just like they accept the 1000% increase in executive pay the last 40 years, while the middle class has been squeezed. Nevermind that consumption was more assured in the 1960s when a single breadwinner with a decent job was enough for a mortgage and a couple kids...they don’t care.


This is what became “trendy” among the “social justice advocates” all over - is counting money that is not theirs hard earned by someone else. And looking who else can beripper off sorry, taxed.

How much CEO gets - it’s up to the company itself, its investors and shareholders. Not someone else. Yes, they get high pay. Nothing in this world is free. Their success is the result of education, countless nights in the office, risk taking, and other hard and complex work. Yes, the word evolves, and things in it change. One of the things CEOs do - adapt to them. Middle class that is claimed to get squeezed - well, it’s squeezed out also by increasing taxes to support this very “social justice” and stuff.

These “social justice advocates” need to adapt their demands and expectations to reality, and not demand from someone else what they didn’t earn.


It is not trendy - economists have warned about the hollowing of the middle class since indicators started lagging in the late 1970s in the aftermath of the oil crisis. And enough of the ‘high taxes’ lies - that is disproven time and again - $200/month healthcare taxes would still be cheaper than the premiums that currently average $400/month and up. The savings to most people would be tremendous.

Your CEO riff is also not news to anybody and is self-explanatory. Everybody knows how and why they earn. The real question is - do you actually think it’s fine that the middle class are in a weaker, more vulnerable position than 40 years ago? Is that progress? A CEO or inheritance brat like 45 can fail many times and get 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th chances - but a guy in our system who has a plant job and has a personal catastrophe will end up on the street or taking himself out without resources or a strong community around him. Are you telling us that’s all hunky-dory?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DL717
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:33 pm

winginit wrote:
DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Oh right, because it's the Norwegians, Swedes, Canadians, Austrians, Swiss, and Australians who are coming to America in droves?

Hardly. Honestly what a ridiculously foolish statement.


People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.


That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.


Then I guess you aren’t familiar with their history and why people would be predisposed to respond in a certain way to their government actions.

You need to do better.
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winginit
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:24 pm

DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:
DL717 wrote:

People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.


That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.


Then I guess you aren’t familiar with their history and why people would be predisposed to respond in a certain way to their government actions.

You need to do better.


I literally hold a Canadian passport, was educated in the UK, and have no idea what you're talking about with regard to any real or perceived correlation between countries that were once under Monarchic rule and perceptions of the function of government today. You are speaking complete nonsense. Try again.
 
extender
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:50 pm

I can give a rat's behind how much a CEO makes. I can care less how rich people are. Let's say I invent the widget that cures some malady, and I get rich off of it. It was my idea, my research and development, my blood sweat and tears. What makes anyone think they are entitled to any of it?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:37 pm

extender wrote:
I can give a rat's behind how much a CEO makes. I can care less how rich people are. Let's say I invent the widget that cures some malady, and I get rich off of it. It was my idea, my research and development, my blood sweat and tears. What makes anyone think they are entitled to any of it?


Nobody is making that argument - you have snarkily twisted it into something else. Non sequitur.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:58 pm

Then the US has a form of capitalism, neither here nor there. Way too many people pissed because someone is making millions.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:03 pm

extender wrote:
Then the US has a form of capitalism, neither here nor there. Way too many people pissed because someone is making millions.


The world is not that simple. If you are truly as logical as your first sentence, it’s just as relevant a truism.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DL717
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:53 am

winginit wrote:
DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:

That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.


Then I guess you aren’t familiar with their history and why people would be predisposed to respond in a certain way to their government actions.

You need to do better.


I literally hold a Canadian passport, was educated in the UK, and have no idea what you're talking about with regard to any real or perceived correlation between countries that were once under Monarchic rule and perceptions of the function of government today. You are speaking complete nonsense. Try again.


Good for you. Now dump your Monarchy and become a Republic.
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DL717
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:56 am

extender wrote:
Then the US has a form of capitalism, neither here nor there. Way too many people pissed because someone is making millions.


The world has have’s and have not’s. People will always complain about it, but under capitalism they can change the course of their future from being a have not to a have, the reverse is also true for people who don’t want to work for it. Socialism on the other hand is for people who have given up.
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Aaron747
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:26 pm

DL717 wrote:
extender wrote:
Then the US has a form of capitalism, neither here nor there. Way too many people pissed because someone is making millions.


The world has have’s and have not’s. People will always complain about it, but under capitalism they can change the course of their future from being a have not to a have, the reverse is also true for people who don’t want to work for it. Socialism on the other hand is for people who have given up.


By that logic, all Dutch, all Germans, all Australians, all Kiwis, all Taiwanese, all Japanese, all Canadians - anywhere else with democratic socialist policies in place, have given up? :laughing: :laughing:

I'll have to visit my friends from those places more often, since they obviously are never working or doing anything productive. Why, it's a wonder how they even live!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:08 pm

DL717 wrote:
extender wrote:
Then the US has a form of capitalism, neither here nor there. Way too many people pissed because someone is making millions.


The world has have’s and have not’s. People will always complain about it, but under capitalism they can change the course of their future from being a have not to a have, the reverse is also true for people who don’t want to work for it. Socialism on the other hand is for people who have given up.


Explain this, then.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... ir-country

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/s ... am-europe/

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... ll_ch3.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aparnamath ... e3f48a6a7b

Given Europeans have greater economic mobility even after “giving up”, if they just tried they’d smoke the USA stone cold, according to your logic. Why is that? How could that be given you claim repeatedly that “American capitalism” trumps “European socialism”?
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3726
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:56 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
Explain this, then.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... ir-country

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/s ... am-europe/

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/up ... ll_ch3.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aparnamath ... e3f48a6a7b

Given Europeans have greater economic mobility even after “giving up”, if they just tried they’d smoke the USA stone cold, according to your logic. Why is that? How could that be given you claim repeatedly that “American capitalism” trumps “European socialism”?
In defence of our local economics guru, he did say that the social mobility was available for everyone that works hard.
So I guess that means DL717 just admitted Europeans work harder then Americans?
Attamottamotta!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:12 pm

Anyone who thinks there isn’t upward mobility in the US hasn’t heard of Gates, Jobes or Bezos. Produce a product people want, you’ll be rich. Less famous, Assam Khan, 63, a dirt poor boy from Pakistan. Recently, he said, “it took 18 years to figure out how to get to America and 13 years to become a millionaire”.

GF
 
extender
Posts: 265
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:22 pm

The rabid liberalism is on display by many. The mere mention of Trump being successful, there are cries of ineptitude. Quote Limbaugh, how dare you? He's a drug addict. People toss links around and ask you to disprove an article? For every point you can make, someone else can counter it. America is a capitalist economical system. This country was founded on the laissez-faire idea. Before you all reach for the match and lighter fluid, there needs to be a balance, and laissez-faire doesn't run anymore. But too much regulation by the government is inefficient and counterproductive. When you read and hear what twits like Sanders and AOC say about Venezuelan socialism, it says a lot. How a clueless buffoon got elected should alarm people. The electorate, has the IQ of Jimminy Cricket's shoe size.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9016
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:29 pm

extender wrote:
The rabid liberalism is on display by many. The mere mention of Trump being successful, there are cries of ineptitude. Quote Limbaugh, how dare you? He's a drug addict. People toss links around and ask you to disprove an article? For every point you can make, someone else can counter it. America is a capitalist economical system. This country was founded on the laissez-faire idea. Before you all reach for the match and lighter fluid, there needs to be a balance, and laissez-faire doesn't run anymore. But too much regulation by the government is inefficient and counterproductive. When you read and hear what twits like Sanders and AOC say about Venezuelan socialism, it says a lot. How a clueless buffoon got elected should alarm people. The electorate, has the IQ of Jimminy Cricket's shoe size.


And yet here you are proving the virulent. "Rabid Liberalism" , "IQ" .

Laissez-faire is an idea that the Government does not interfere in the free markets, yet here we have Trump and local, city, state governments of all stripes going out of their way with Tariffs and economic incentives to draw businesses in or punish them. We are more socialist than you might believe when the Government is controlling barriers to entry. Trump is currently doing that.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:52 am

Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:58 pm

Yes, rabid. Many on here openly accuse any Republican of being a racist, bigot, homophobe, etc, without knowing the person. Real easy to by a tough guy behind a keyboard. And by that, it is meant that you can throw crap against the wall hoping it sticks.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:27 pm

extender wrote:
Yes, rabid. Many on here openly accuse any Republican of being a racist, bigot, homophobe, etc, without knowing the person. Real easy to by a tough guy behind a keyboard. And by that, it is meant that you can throw crap against the wall hoping it sticks.


It is easy to characterize most Republicans as Racists, liars, misogynists and cheaters. They voted for one of the worst examples of each category to be the leader of the US. You can't claim the moral high ground when you sacrificed them for such a person.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:46 pm

Mental dwarfism. That's a broad sweep. The same can be said of people who voted for Obama. And many will tell you that they voted for him because he was black. As long as we're at it, the Democrats are still the party of racism and bigotry. LBJ has been noted for saying that he'll have blacks voting democrat for the next 200 years.Misogynists, Bill Clinton takes that title with flying colors, and for Liars, Hillary's picture would be in the dictionary, but the editors didn't want their deaths to be ruled a suicide.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9016
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:59 pm

extender wrote:
Mental dwarfism. That's a broad sweep. The same can be said of people who voted for Obama. And many will tell you that they voted for him because he was black. As long as we're at it, the Democrats are still the party of racism and bigotry. LBJ has been noted for saying that he'll have blacks voting democrat for the next 200 years.Misogynists, Bill Clinton takes that title with flying colors, and for Liars, Hillary's picture would be in the dictionary, but the editors didn't want their deaths to be ruled a suicide.


Mental dwarfism is calling liberals rabid. Obama never acted on racism, bigotry, misogyny or others. Trump has. That is the difference. Yet you and others still back such a man that would destroy the economy because of his perceived notions based on perceived characteristics rather than on solid facts, science, or math

The only reasons you have Hillary as a liar is from the Right wing networks being misogyny, for her whole political career. Bill is a misogynist, but he never put policy in place that affected it. LBJ was before my time, but he was correct as the GOP has embraced racism as a policy due to their "southern strategy",

So the broad sweep becomes a targeted sweep when you continue to follow in the footsteps of a person acting on the worst of the worst characteristics.

Do you think German Citizens in the 30's, all went willingly on into WW2 and Genocide? They first had to sacrifice their own internal values by following along with a charismatic leader that at the end didn't even value his own life.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
Posts: 265
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:02 pm

Delusional, twist the facts to fit your narrative. But hey, what ever floats your boat. How will you cope after he is re-elected in 2020, because if Biden is what your putting your faith in, now I get it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:30 pm

extender wrote:
Delusional, twist the facts to fit your narrative. But hey, what ever floats your boat. How will you cope after he is re-elected in 2020, because if Biden is what your putting your faith in, now I get it.


Twist them how? Please explain?

I don't support Biden at this point, but if he is the sole choice when we go to elect in Nov 2020, I will probably vote for him My hope is that the GOP rises up from it's current nationalistic, racist, misogynistic legislative stances that are not fiscally or socially responsible and nominates a better person than Trump. However that probably will not happen. So we will see what the democrats do, and then we will see if an independent jumps in should the democrats go so far left that the nominee isn't viable either.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DL717
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 pm

winginit wrote:
DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:

Oh right, because it's the Norwegians, Swedes, Canadians, Austrians, Swiss, and Australians who are coming to America in droves?

Hardly. Honestly what a ridiculously foolish statement.


People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.


That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.


Sure:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/uk/brexi ... index.html
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petertenthije
Posts: 3726
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:12 pm

DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:
DL717 wrote:

People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system. They are all beholden to a Monarchy, whether they have a current parliament or not, or are a conquered state accustomed to government control over most aspects of their lives. As a result they don’t complain about things like vat taxes in the neighborhood of 15-25% on everything they buy. The US has no Monarchy. We told them to eff off. What works there, does not and will not work in the US. People like Bernie Sanders fail to recognize this simple truth when trying to suggest the European model will work here. We aren’t Serfs.


That is by far one of the least intelligent things I've seen posted on this forum. Beholden to a Monarchy?! Have you ever been to any of the countries I've mentioned? The monarchies are symbolic - nothing more.

Do better.


Sure:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/28/uk/brexi ... index.html
How is this the queen's fault? This action more then anything displays she's just a figurehead since she just did what Johnson asked even though clearly it is not in the best interest of democracy.
Attamottamotta!
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 56
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:01 pm

petertenthije wrote:
DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:
How is this the queen's fault? This action more then anything displays she's just a figurehead since she just did what Johnson asked even though clearly it is not in the best interest of democracy.


I think the Queen demonstrated exactly what the Electoral College demonstrated in the 2016 elections. The Queen failed exactly as the EC did to prevent an eminently unqualified, dangerous, person to be elected to POTUS. As Americans we were taught that a Fascist, nationalistic demagogue couldn’t get elected to the US as happened in other places (Ie...Nazi Germany) because we had the Electoral College. Just as the EC failed to break tradition and live up to its stated purpose, the Queen too took the political easy way out by not breaking with tradition, and to be a guardrail of UK democracy. Both hid behind “but, but, but, that would create a Constitutional crisis”, while punting the football down the hill towards an ever more unstable, unstoppable, future. As Trump would say, #sad.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: US has amoral virulent form of Capitalism.

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:50 am

DL717 wrote:
winginit wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
If American capitalism is so evil, why do people keep coming to America?


Oh right, because it's the Norwegians, Swedes, Canadians, Austrians, Swiss, and Australians who are coming to America in droves?

Hardly. Honestly what a ridiculously foolish statement.


People in those countries are predisposed to accept a socialist system.


I think it depends on the character of the individual, whether or not you are "predisposed" to anything.

I can only speak for myself with respect to "coming to America", but I think it probably is one of the best thing that ever happened to me. I say this as I am a rather self-reliant, strongly individual person who most-of-the-time had to take care of himself when I still lived in The Netherlands. Since I got a pretty good college education, that means you can do very well in the USA. You can do fine in Holland, but I think better (as in more money) in the USA.

It obviously also depends in what industry you work. The Tech Industry tends to take care of its people well. So overall, with respect to benefits and take-home pay, I mathematically do better in the USA than in Holland. Now, there are obviously things that I think are much better organized and of much better quality in Holland, like public transport. But if you are a strongly individual person and organize your own transport (car, bike), than public transport doesn't matter much to you.

So once again, it depends very much on what type of person you are, what kind of education you have, what kind of job you have, and what kind of background you come from.

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