kimimm19
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Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm

According to the Tagesanzeiger paper, Switzerland's government has voted in favour of an Ecotax.

To sum up a lot of information:

- Tax will range from 30-120 CHF
- The money will be divided up into two funds: One of which will be an eco-fund to spend on things like more electric vehicle charging stations.

There is additional information which doesn't specifically pertain to aviation so I've left that out, but this is all to aid in reaching the target of reducing carbon emissions by 60% in relation to 1990 by 2030, and the carbon neutral target of 2050.

This is off the back of numerous reports on television and radio in Switzerland saying that people have said they would be willing to fly less for climate reasons.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/al ... y/30380005
 
PhilInBRN
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:13 pm

This is not the government that has voted in favor of the tax but rather a sub-commission of one of the chambers of parliament. The main discussion will be held in the main parliamentary chamber within the next couple of weeks.
The main issue here is that the general parliamentary elections are coming up at the end of October. Therefore, almost every party wants to be perceived as "eco-friendly" ahead of these elections in the wake of the climate strike movement.

Personally, I think a "Swiss finish" solution is nothing but detrimental to the Swiss economy, tourism, the ZRH hub as long as no global (or at least European) solution in this regard exists. Furthermore, the tax will put lower-income people at a huge disadvantage (gas will also be taxed by an additional 10-12 cent CHF) as long as the proceeds will not go towards a general fund benefiting the entire population (such as a relief from high health care cost).
 
jghealey
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:41 pm

Is this for both shorthaul flights and longhaul flights? A minimum 30chf tax even on shorthaul flights would effectively be doubling the cost of many flights...
 
kimimm19
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:54 pm

PhilInBRN wrote:
This is not the government that has voted in favor of the tax but rather a sub-commission of one of the chambers of parliament. The main discussion will be held in the main parliamentary chamber within the next couple of weeks.
The main issue here is that the general parliamentary elections are coming up at the end of October. Therefore, almost every party wants to be perceived as "eco-friendly" ahead of these elections in the wake of the climate strike movement.

Personally, I think a "Swiss finish" solution is nothing but detrimental to the Swiss economy, tourism, the ZRH hub as long as no global (or at least European) solution in this regard exists. Furthermore, the tax will put lower-income people at a huge disadvantage (gas will also be taxed by an additional 10-12 cent CHF) as long as the proceeds will not go towards a general fund benefiting the entire population (such as a relief from high health care cost).



Regardless, the European tourism figures show that Switzerland is nowhere to be found as people go to cheaper places like Croatia and the Balkans, so much more detriment I don't think can be done. Especially as others follow suit.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:13 pm

30 CHF for short haul sounds on the high side. Perhaps 15 CHF might be more realistic ?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:51 pm

Why should air travelers have to pay for things not related to air travel?
xx
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:06 pm

usxguy wrote:
Why should air travelers have to pay for things not related to air travel?


Perhaps they shouldn't. Carriers should just pay a carbon tax on fuel purchases and let those costs be reflected in the ticket prices.
 
TObound
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:15 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Why should air travelers have to pay for things not related to air travel?


Perhaps they shouldn't. Carriers should just pay a carbon tax on fuel purchases and let those costs be reflected in the ticket prices.


If only the global aviation community had actually agreed to that. This is the price of not leading.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:40 am

its truly beyond me how anyone can argue any of this. Effects poorer people more? If we continue down the road we are on, the entire population will have far worse problems than everything being expensive, like no more place to live, or no more air that's breathable.

We attack this NOW on all fronts, not later, or society will fail, and there is #NOplanetB
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:20 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
its truly beyond me how anyone can argue any of this. Effects poorer people more? If we continue down the road we are on, the entire population will have far worse problems than everything being expensive, like no more place to live, or no more air that's breathable.

We attack this NOW on all fronts, not later, or society will fail, and there is #NOplanetB


The problem is, why should people with no option but to fly is penalized more than those with options?

How should I go to Europe from Asia, without flying? By ship is far more polluting, and there are no train options, unlike intra-European travel.
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BREECH
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:25 am

I guess Switzerland just love to see their national airline go bancrupt time and time again. After all, in a quiet and trouble-free country like that what else do you talk about at lunch?
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umichman
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:36 am

There are many other industries and modes of transportation where gains can be made at far less cost and economic impact. The physics of airplane travel simply does not currently lend itself to cost effective propulsion mechanisms other than fossil fuels. Proposals that simply treat all CO2 sources as equals and cause significant economic damages may leave the public rejecting all forms of cutbacks (including those with far more modest cost and negative economic impact).
 
planecane
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:42 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
its truly beyond me how anyone can argue any of this. Effects poorer people more? If we continue down the road we are on, the entire population will have far worse problems than everything being expensive, like no more place to live, or no more air that's breathable.

We attack this NOW on all fronts, not later, or society will fail, and there is #NOplanetB

No more air that's breathable? What? No more places to live? How does a few PPM of additional CO2 make air not breathable? Even the worst case scenario climate alarmists only predict inches of sea level rise. Sure it can have some effect on coastal communities but it isn't going to flood the world.

These hyperbolic, apocalyptic statements do more harm than good to environmental movements. If you want to reduce CO2 emissions be rational about it.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but unless China and India are willing to drastically reduce CO2 emissions, it won't matter one bit if Europe and the US went to zero emissions tomorrow.
 
Thunderbolt500
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:18 am

Bunch of suckers for giving government more money
 
Thunderbolt500
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:20 am

umichman wrote:
There are many other industries and modes of transportation where gains can be made at far less cost and economic impact. The physics of airplane travel simply does not currently lend itself to cost effective propulsion mechanisms other than fossil fuels. Proposals that simply treat all CO2 sources as equals and cause significant economic damages may leave the public rejecting all forms of cutbacks (including those with far more modest cost and negative economic impact).


Fossil fuel is king also will be the best, I say drill more for oil,etc
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:40 am

The Dinosaurs that eat propaganda for lunch (ie if china and india don't do it know one else should waaaaaaaaaa), you all cant pass on soon enough, sorry to say, but for real, go on into the next
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
Karlsands
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:49 am

Thunderbolt500 wrote:
Bunch of suckers for giving government more money

Exactly
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:00 am

This means fewer people will fly to/from Switzerland. The price/demand curve doesn't care what increases prices.

Switzerland won't be too hard hit until other neighbor nation's raise the equivalent taxes...

Karlsands wrote:
Thunderbolt500 wrote:
Bunch of suckers for giving government more money

Exactly

This is that. If the tax money is well spent, good. If wasted... Just a tax.

Save fuel, tax TV.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
moa999
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:14 am

And just watch the Swiss drive to an airport outside Switzerland to avoid it
 
Toinou
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:38 am

I love the "why should we do it if others do not" argument. It is so effective to stop every move. Why tax in Switzerland if EU does not? Why tax in EU if China does not? Why tax in China if EU does not? Why tax aviation if other fields do not?
In full honesty, I wonder if this will really change something economically in rich countries like Switzerland. But it might level slightly the field between different modes of transportation, like trains.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
The problem is, why should people with no option but to fly is penalized more than those with options?

How should I go to Europe from Asia, without flying? By ship is far more polluting, and there are no train options, unlike intra-European travel.

I wonder who are those people. No-one forces you to go to Asia. Business trip? That's what email and video-conference are for. Tourism? This is your choice. Visiting family? This might be the better case to argue with such a decision, but once again, moving abroad is a personal decision.

In addition, this is a minority of air trips from Switzerland. Most are short, intra-european, flights that can easily be done by train. Yes, it's longer, an your time is probably very precious. But so is everyone's future on this planet.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:51 am

Boy, there are some short-sighted people in this thread already. :banghead:
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Aliqiout
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:01 am

lightsaber wrote:
This means fewer people will fly to/from Switzerland. The price/demand curve doesn't care what increases prices.



Lightsaber


That's the point. Fewer people flying means less CO2.
 
SeoulIncheon
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:17 am

planecane wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
its truly beyond me how anyone can argue any of this. Effects poorer people more? If we continue down the road we are on, the entire population will have far worse problems than everything being expensive, like no more place to live, or no more air that's breathable.

We attack this NOW on all fronts, not later, or society will fail, and there is #NOplanetB

No more air that's breathable? What? No more places to live? How does a few PPM of additional CO2 make air not breathable? Even the worst case scenario climate alarmists only predict inches of sea level rise. Sure it can have some effect on coastal communities but it isn't going to flood the world.

These hyperbolic, apocalyptic statements do more harm than good to environmental movements. If you want to reduce CO2 emissions be rational about it.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but unless China and India are willing to drastically reduce CO2 emissions, it won't matter one bit if Europe and the US went to zero emissions tomorrow.


Well...all dictatorships/communism/facism have excuses... "living rooms of German people"(Lebensraum), "land of Proletariats, free of exploits by 'capitalists", "Asian liberation from the West"(both Japanese Imperialism and Asian communism)...and now "fighting threat of climate change"...

At least where I live the majority of those "environmentalists" have communist background...
 
Toinou
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:29 am

SeoulIncheon wrote:

Well...all dictatorships/communism/facism have excuses... "living rooms of German people"(Lebensraum), "land of Proletariats, free of exploits by 'capitalists", "Asian liberation from the West"(both Japanese Imperialism and Asian communism)...and now "fighting threat of climate change"...

At least where I live the majority of those "environmentalists" have communist background...


Have you heard of Pinochet, in Chile? Or Park Chung-hee, in South Korea? Free market obsession can lead to dictatorship too.

And I don't really get how asking an industry to cover really what it costs to the whole society (including when it develops at the expense of the environment, you can Google "externality" to get an idea) is dictatorship. This is one of the basis of liberalism. Many "capitalists" have a selective reading of Adam Smith.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:37 am

Toinou wrote:

I wonder who are those people. No-one forces you to go to Asia. Business trip? That's what email and video-conference are for. Tourism? This is your choice. Visiting family? This might be the better case to argue with such a decision, but once again, moving abroad is a personal decision.

In addition, this is a minority of air trips from Switzerland. Most are short, intra-european, flights that can easily be done by train. Yes, it's longer, an your time is probably very precious. But so is everyone's future on this planet.


"No-one forces you" arguments is a slippery slope, you can end up the wrong way - "No-one forces you to live, so why not just die!"

Since most travel out of Switzerland is intra-European, it further strengthens the case to punish short flights more.
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tommy1808
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:40 am

planecane wrote:
climate alarmists.


And you already disqualified yourself from any discussion by using "alarmist".

Worst case scenario is not "a few inches" but close to 100 inches until the end of the century. Between 12 and 50 inches is the current forecast and we currently blow through an inch every 7 years and have done so for a while. That already leads to multi billion costs.... hundreds of million for large coastal towns ... each.
But I guess you rather pay for all of that out of your taxes...

Toinou wrote:
I love the "why should we do it if others do not" argument. It is so effective to stop every move. Why tax in Switzerland if EU does not? Why tax in EU if China does not? Why tax in China if EU does not?


Easy answer.... China will meet it Copenhagen and Paris commitments without such tax, Europe as of now won't;)

Best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:44 am

Toinou wrote:
i wonder who are those people. No-one forces you to go to Asia. Business trip? That's what email and video-conference are for.


I really want to see you conduct an audit with email and video conferences. ...
Most people I know hate business trips, avoid them when possible and even changed careers to do less... "pleasure" business trips are pretty much an urban myth.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
AIRT0M
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:04 am

Trump's 'global warming is a hoax' is strong in this forum. Naturally.

Scary how the US and Europe/rest of the world is drifting apart more and more every day. Sad, to quote Mr Sad himself.
 
HBJZA
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:08 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Toinou wrote:

I wonder who are those people. No-one forces you to go to Asia. Business trip? That's what email and video-conference are for. Tourism? This is your choice. Visiting family? This might be the better case to argue with such a decision, but once again, moving abroad is a personal decision.

In addition, this is a minority of air trips from Switzerland. Most are short, intra-european, flights that can easily be done by train. Yes, it's longer, an your time is probably very precious. But so is everyone's future on this planet.


"No-one forces you" arguments is a slippery slope, you can end up the wrong way - "No-one forces you to live, so why not just die!"

Since most travel out of Switzerland is intra-European, it further strengthens the case to punish short flights more.


And connecting flights in Switzerland will not be taxed. It is clearly a tax against short hops in Europe. It will have a much greater impact on carriers like easyjet compared to swiss int’l. Swiss protectionism at the end.
 
Toinou
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:21 am

HBJZA wrote:
And connecting flights in Switzerland will not be taxed. It is clearly a tax against short hops in Europe. It will have a much greater impact on carriers like easyjet compared to swiss int’l. Swiss protectionism at the end.


I agree with that. Sadly, in Switzerland, anything like "double taxation" (ie in this case, if the country you left already tax the ticket) is a strong political point. But it does not mean that the tax would be ineffective, just that it is not perfect. Saying that you should not do something because it may have marginal side-effects or because it does not cover absolutely every situation is usually one of the easiest way to cancel a project and it is usually not used by those who want a better law but by those who want nothing to change.
 
planecane
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:26 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
The Dinosaurs that eat propaganda for lunch (ie if china and india don't do it know one else should waaaaaaaaaa), you all cant pass on soon enough, sorry to say, but for real, go on into the next


Like the alarmists aren't peddling propaganda? In case you are too young to know, in the late 70s and early 80s "scientists" were predicting a mini ice age was coming due to pollution. It was in my text books in elementary school. A little later in my schooling, the greenhouse effect chapter showed up.

I'm not a "climate change denier." The climate is changing and has since the earth was formed. How did the last ice age end and the climate get to what is considered "normal" without natural climate change?

CO2 emissions probably have some effect. How much, neither I nor the "scientists" can possibly know. There are too many variables and you can't possibly design experiments to get that level of accuracy.

Reducing CO2 emissions is definitely not a bad thing. It should be done where it makes the most sense and not in a way to hurt economies (and lifestyles) by discouraging air travel. Especially when fuel efficiency per passenger mile takes huge leaps with every generation of aircraft.

In the short term, where it makes the most sense to reduce CO2 emissions is in electric generation. Encouraging and supporting the development of wind and solar power is a good thing and is happening in large scale (at least in the US). Within 10 years it is likely that at least 30% of electricity generated in the US will be renewable. It will likely be higher. Combined with efficiency improvements of vehicles, lighting, HVAC and appliances, there will be a significant reduction in CO2 emissions by the US. All of this will happen and is happening without carbon tax schemes.
 
sagechan
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:30 am

Pricing is the correct mechanism for addressing fossil fuels, but really needs to be nearly global tax on carbon that's reinvested into no carbon alternatives in energy and transportation especially. Other than aviation, we could choose to spend the money to go carbon free on both electric and transportation within 15 years, it's just expensive. Sadly, Switzerland is such a tiny contributer to GHG emissions that not much changes. Even the US accounts for only about 15% of emissions.
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HBJZA
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:32 am

Toinou wrote:
HBJZA wrote:
And connecting flights in Switzerland will not be taxed. It is clearly a tax against short hops in Europe. It will have a much greater impact on carriers like easyjet compared to swiss int’l. Swiss protectionism at the end.


I agree with that. Sadly, in Switzerland, anything like "double taxation" (ie in this case, if the country you left already tax the ticket) is a strong political point. But it does not mean that the tax would be ineffective, just that it is not perfect. Saying that you should not do something because it may have marginal side-effects or because it does not cover absolutely every situation is usually one of the easiest way to cancel a project and it is usually not used by those who want a better law but by those who want nothing to change.

You are right but to be fair, they should tax transiting pax if the state of departure does not tax their passengers. As a swiss citizen, I’ll be systematically taxed when flying out of switzerland while the whole world could transit here without being taxed. Very unfair
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:34 am

They are basically taking the money from their national airline to pay for electric car charging and so on. The result will be to make Switzerland and its airline less competitive.
 
HBJZA
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:42 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
They are basically taking the money from their national airline to pay for electric car charging and so on. The result will be to make Switzerland and its airline less competitive.

Exactly!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 am

Good news, hope more countries follow.
 
Blerg
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:22 am

Don't know if this is a norm or just a random observation but every time I try to book a flight via lh.com, the option via ZRH is always the most expensive. Such moves won't help and will only encourage LH Group to invest more resources into MUC.

If the government wants more charging stations then they should find their source of income elsewhere, like this they are just shooting themselves in the foot.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:26 am

Blerg wrote:
Don't know if this is a norm or just a random observation but every time I try to book a flight via lh.com, the option via ZRH is always the most expensive. Such moves won't help and will only encourage LH Group to invest more resources into MUC.

If the government wants more charging stations then they should find their source of income elsewhere, like this they are just shooting themselves in the foot.


Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.
 
Toinou
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:44 am

HBJZA wrote:
You are right but to be fair, they should tax transiting pax if the state of departure does not tax their passengers. As a swiss citizen, I’ll be systematically taxed when flying out of switzerland while the whole world could transit here without being taxed. Very unfair


I am sorry but life is not fair. You work more and the shareholder gets most profit. The rich European wants a huge polluting car, the Bangladeshi farmer sees its field taken by the river. You cheat once at school, you get caught while that guy who does it all the time go unnoticed.
Perfect coherence is unachievable and is advocated only by totalitarian systems.
 
planecane
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:57 am

sagechan wrote:
Pricing is the correct mechanism for addressing fossil fuels, but really needs to be nearly global tax on carbon that's reinvested into no carbon alternatives in energy and transportation especially. Other than aviation, we could choose to spend the money to go carbon free on both electric and transportation within 15 years, it's just expensive. Sadly, Switzerland is such a tiny contributer to GHG emissions that not much changes. Even the US accounts for only about 15% of emissions.

Not without nuclear being a decent sized piece can electric and ground transportation be carbon free within 15 years.

A more realistic goal of 50% renewable combined with things like planting trees will be a huge reduction in CO2 levels.
 
TObound
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:09 pm

The global aviation community had a choice to implement worldwide carbon taxes. Instead, we decided to let airlines keep flying 20-30 year old planes while adding capacity. Now governments are making decisions for the sector.

You can either stick your head in the sand or get out ahead of an issue. The denialism seen on this thread is why it will only get worse.
 
Blerg
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:57 pm

seahawk wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't know if this is a norm or just a random observation but every time I try to book a flight via lh.com, the option via ZRH is always the most expensive. Such moves won't help and will only encourage LH Group to invest more resources into MUC.

If the government wants more charging stations then they should find their source of income elsewhere, like this they are just shooting themselves in the foot.


Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.


How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't know if this is a norm or just a random observation but every time I try to book a flight via lh.com, the option via ZRH is always the most expensive. Such moves won't help and will only encourage LH Group to invest more resources into MUC.

If the government wants more charging stations then they should find their source of income elsewhere, like this they are just shooting themselves in the foot.


Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.


How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?


Well, maybe based on the increased landing fees coming in September and the night curfew. Even in an interview in the last issue of the Aero magazine the COO described the long term goals as stabilising the current amount of traffic and offering a better service, with only a very moderate long term growths.
 
Toinou
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Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:29 pm

Blerg wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Don't know if this is a norm or just a random observation but every time I try to book a flight via lh.com, the option via ZRH is always the most expensive. Such moves won't help and will only encourage LH Group to invest more resources into MUC.

If the government wants more charging stations then they should find their source of income elsewhere, like this they are just shooting themselves in the foot.


Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.


How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?


In all fairness, the main complain about Germany restricting approach to ZRH was not because it restricted capacity, it was because it means nuisances will be more in Switzerland.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2201
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:18 pm

seahawk wrote:
Blerg wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.


How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?


Well, maybe based on the increased landing fees coming in September and the night curfew. Even in an interview in the last issue of the Aero magazine the COO described the long term goals as stabilising the current amount of traffic and offering a better service, with only a very moderate long term growths.


Sorry but that's just your interpretation of the situation, doesn't necessarily reflect the overall opinion of the people.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10807
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:48 pm

Blerg wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Blerg wrote:

How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?


Well, maybe based on the increased landing fees coming in September and the night curfew. Even in an interview in the last issue of the Aero magazine the COO described the long term goals as stabilising the current amount of traffic and offering a better service, with only a very moderate long term growths.


Sorry but that's just your interpretation of the situation, doesn't necessarily reflect the overall opinion of the people.


Toinou wrote:
Blerg wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Only if the government or the voters would want more air traffic, Switzerland wants less though. ZRH is running at the limit and there is no desire to increase capacity. Most would be quite happy to see less traffic.


How exactly have you come to the conclusion that Swiss people want less air traffic? Didn't people complain when Germany restricted night flying because it restricted landing patters at ZRH at night?


In all fairness, the main complain about Germany restricting approach to ZRH was not because it restricted capacity, it was because it means nuisances will be more in Switzerland.


Toinou nailed it.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
axiom
Posts: 863
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:50 pm

usxguy wrote:
Why should air travelers have to pay for things not related to air travel?


The tax is to offset the negative environmental impact of flying, in part by subsidizing technologies which also offset emissions. For a tax, the basis and application of funds is actually quite linear.

I hope to see this policy put to law. The science is unequivocal: we need to curb emissions dramatically to avoid a catastrophic situation.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10807
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:01 pm

axiom wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Why should air travelers have to pay for things not related to air travel?


The tax is to offset the negative environmental impact of flying, in part by subsidizing technologies which also offset emissions. For a tax, the basis and application of funds is actually quite linear.

I hope to see this policy put to law. The science is unequivocal: we need to curb emissions dramatically to avoid a catastrophic situation.


And 30 to 120 CHF sounds just about right for carbon offset of flying... 1 ~ 4 tons.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
DTVG
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:40 pm

Elections in Switzerland are in October and right now it is cool to be green.
Best to wait until spring when the national council discusses the matter.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 414
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Switzerland to follow suit with Eco-Tax

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:29 am

    moa999 wrote:
    And just watch the Swiss drive to an airport outside Switzerland to avoid it

    Until Germany and France does it too.
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