olle
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Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:03 pm

After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?

Historicly jews has repetly been accused of dissloyalty and this has been considered classical case of anti semitism. When MrTrump use the same expression can it be considered as something else?

Can disloyalty in general be used as racism? Quite often minorities is considered as disloyal such as gupsies etc. Is that expression of racism?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:30 pm

Trump's dad was an anti-Semite. He restricted Jews from some of his apartment buildings as well as involved with the NYC branch of the KKK, and arrested for his involvement at a anti-Jewish rally. Apple doesn't fall from the tree.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:36 pm

Yah that should win 'em right over to Trump's camp :rotfl: Maybe if Trump's supporters stopped shooting up synagogues, that would help? Just a guess.
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Aaron747
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:53 am

Quick condemnation from J Street, ADL, and lots more to come. Gee, it's almost like his talking points came directly from Bibi. This will be a big part of the next chapter - 'how to lose independents bigly'.
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EstherLouise
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:18 am

If this keeps up, Trump just might get 30% of the popular vote on Election Day.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:38 am

EstherLouise wrote:
If this keeps up, Trump just might get 30% of the popular vote on Election Day.


(Getting off topic)
It's REALLY hard to get only 30% of the popular vote in a nationwide presidential election, unless there is a very strong third party candidate (and I'm seeing none right now).

For example, both 1980 and 1984 elections were landslides (at least in electoral vote), yet both Carter and Mondale still managed to get ~40% of the national popular vote.

Plus there's always those 40-42% of the people that "approve" Trump, so at a minimum one would expect Trump to get ~40% of the national popular vote.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:42 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Plus there's always those 40-42% of the people that "approve" Trump, so at a minimum one would expect Trump to get ~40% of the national popular vote.

But latest polling doesn't show Trump getting that level. In fact, the Fox News polling showed him below 40%, suggesting that some of the people that "approve" of Trump may yet be hesitant to reward him with a 2nd term.
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Ken777
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:48 am

I've read multiple times that American Jews are not that impressed with Israel's government. I seriously doubt that Trump is sensitive enough to understand this and will continue to smear American Jews.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:12 am

Ken777 wrote:
I've read multiple times that American Jews are not that impressed with Israel's government. I seriously doubt that Trump is sensitive enough to understand this and will continue to smear American Jews.


Accurate assessment. The thing that the right wing doesn't seem to get is that one cannot be a friend of the Jews and still be violently illiberal.

While moderates aren't a problem in this regard, the Maga Neo Nazi types will never be accepted as trustworthy or eligible to receive a vote.

Supporting Israel's current war bent, (and minority) leaderhip will not make up for this.

I can't speak for all of us, but the ones I've met who somehow do support trump are either hopelessly historically illiterate, or trying to be ironic.
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jetwet1
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:34 am

Speaking for my wife....

Well actually, if I posted what she said, I would get banned from this site, so let's go with she doesn't agree with him.

Now, as a sideways look at this subject, we recently had a family get together, 16 adults (14 Jewish) 2 for Trump, 8 not for Trump, 4 seriously not for Trump and 2 who refused to discuss politics (in hindsight, the smart 2).
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:15 am

olle wrote:
After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?


No, is isn't anti-semitic as such. It is stupid, anti-democratic and flamitory, but I would not consider it anti-semitic.
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Aaron747
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:36 am

Dutchy wrote:
olle wrote:
After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?


No, is isn't anti-semitic as such. It is stupid, anti-democratic and flamitory, but I would not consider it anti-semitic.


Tropes suggesting dual national loyalty are, but then again, that's the same thing he criticized Rep. Omar for - which was rich since he had joked multiple times in the past about Jewish bankers, Jews controlling NYC, and on and on. POTUS is a putz.
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SQ22
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:41 am

olle wrote:
After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?

Historicly jews has repetly been accused of dissloyalty and this has been considered classical case of anti semitism. When MrTrump use the same expression can it be considered as something else?

Can disloyalty in general be used as racism? Quite often minorities is considered as disloyal such as gupsies etc. Is that expression of racism?


By the way, can you provide a source that he in fact did call them disloyal? For the future please always provide a source.
 
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777222LR
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:26 am

SQ22 wrote:
olle wrote:
After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?

Historicly jews has repetly been accused of dissloyalty and this has been considered classical case of anti semitism. When MrTrump use the same expression can it be considered as something else?

Can disloyalty in general be used as racism? Quite often minorities is considered as disloyal such as gupsies etc. Is that expression of racism?


By the way, can you provide a source that he in fact did call them disloyal? For the future please always provide a source.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/20/politics ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49417157
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... democratic
 
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SQ22
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:41 am

777222LR wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/20/politics/donald-trump-jewish-americans-democrat-disloyalty/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49417157
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... democratic


Thanks.
 
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:45 am

Some Jews, like Americans have a short memory. How the Jews keep voting for liberals boggles the mind. Israel is their promised land, and the American Jew's voting habits place Israel in more danger. And before anyone wants to provide a lecture on how poorly Arabs are treated, I raise the flag, I have seen it first hand.
 
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777222LR
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:55 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTr ... 6205654016

And here we are this fine Wednesday morning with DT retweeting someone likening him to the 2nd coming of God, and "The King of Israel."
 
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Aesma
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:41 pm

OP, your keyboard is being disloyal to you !
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Aaron747
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:36 pm

extender wrote:
Some Jews, like Americans have a short memory. How the Jews keep voting for liberals boggles the mind. Israel is their promised land, and the American Jew's voting habits place Israel in more danger. And before anyone wants to provide a lecture on how poorly Arabs are treated, I raise the flag, I have seen it first hand.


Usually on this issue, it is best to quote the patriotic pragmatist, David Ben-Gurion:

"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves ----
that is ONLY half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend
ourselves. . . . But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict,
which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors
and they defend themselves."
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casinterest
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:37 pm

777222LR wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164138796205654016

And here we are this fine Wednesday morning with DT retweeting someone likening him to the 2nd coming of God, and "The King of Israel."


And Trump is lapping it up as it feeds into his delusions of grandeur.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:54 pm

extender wrote:
Some Jews, like Americans have a short memory. How the Jews keep voting for liberals boggles the mind. Israel is their promised land, and the American Jew's voting habits place Israel in more danger. And before anyone wants to provide a lecture on how poorly Arabs are treated, I raise the flag, I have seen it first hand.

Maybe they're not crazy about a bunch of white nationalists that keep shooting up synagogues? Maybe they put America first before another country? Isn't that the whole Trump spiel? Israel has universal healthcare too so must be a socialist hellhole :roll:

777222LR wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164138796205654016

And here we are this fine Wednesday morning with DT retweeting someone likening him to the 2nd coming of God, and "The King of Israel."

He's not totally wrong. He's not the Jews' messiah; he's the evangelicals' messiah.
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:10 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Speaking for my wife....

Well actually, if I posted what she said, I would get banned from this site, so let's go with she doesn't agree with him.

Now, as a sideways look at this subject, we recently had a family get together, 16 adults (14 Jewish) 2 for Trump, 8 not for Trump, 4 seriously not for Trump and 2 who refused to discuss politics (in hindsight, the smart 2).


Your family is 87% disloyal Jewish anti-Semites? That must’ve been some dinner.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:30 pm

Loyal Jew?
Just like the True Scotsman.

I suspect what Trump considers a "loyal Jew" is one that wants to move to Israel and settle in the West Bank and of course can only support Trump and Netanyahu.

Tugg
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Aaron747
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:34 pm

Tugger wrote:
Loyal Jew?
Just like the True Scotsman.

I suspect what Trump considers a "loyal Jew" is one that wants to move to Israel and settle in the West Bank and of course can only support Trump and Netanyahu.

Tugg


That rules out son-in-law and daughter beloved then. Fat chance they'll ever leave NYC.
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JJJ
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
extender wrote:
Some Jews, like Americans have a short memory. How the Jews keep voting for liberals boggles the mind. Israel is their promised land, and the American Jew's voting habits place Israel in more danger. And before anyone wants to provide a lecture on how poorly Arabs are treated, I raise the flag, I have seen it first hand.


Usually on this issue, it is best to quote the patriotic pragmatist, David Ben-Gurion:


He was a socialist and therefore disloyal by default.

That's the new history.
 
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seb146
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:35 pm

He is anti Semitic. We can say that out loud now, right? I mean, four Muslim women in Congress are anti Semitic because they disagree with Netanyahu. Is that what it takes? Just disagreeing with an Israeli PM?
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EstherLouise
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:30 pm

Trump's problem is that he trusts only people who whisper sweet nothings in his ear all day. And he refuses to read and listen to anything other than the news stations and reporters that continue to inflate is ego beyond reality. He calls everything else "Fake News" and honestly thinks they're part of a Deep State conspiracy against him. As a result, for all we know, he thinks that his real approval rating is 80% and that 75% of the people will definitely vote for him in 2020. And, for every day for the last two weeks, he continues to alienate more and more moderates who may have supported him in 2016. I honestly think, based on the latest polls, that most Americans have already made up their minds for the 2020 election: They're either already firm Trump supporters or supporters of "anyone but Trump."

To make matters worse, since fivethirtyeight.com and other pollsters were "wrong" about the 2016 election, he has deemed all future polls to be equally flawed. Turns out, the pollsters weren't wrong about their prognostications. They were actually spot on. What happened was unforeseen and unexpected: Too many Hillary voters who assumed she was a shoe-in at winning chose to not to go out and vote for her.... Unfortunately, too many other of her supporters assumed likewise. As a result, 15% of Hillary's voters didn't get off their dead asses to go to the polls. To make matters worse, 8% of the voters who were diehard Bernie supporters refused to support Hillary and, in fact, out of spite, cast protest votes for Trump. Add to the fact that nearly all of Trump's voters actually showed up to vote for him.... well. You get it.
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Pyrex
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:08 pm

I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:18 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".

So you are saying this is the right thing to do?

Tugg
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777222LR
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:36 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".



Whataboutisms - Hallmark of the Trump era...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:42 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".

Well Hillary would be correct about people without self determination.
As for your many people, i don't recall those many people being a lying,racist, anti-semite Presidential coward.
However for the most part in the current climate, those people would be voting against their own best interests, but that applies to all so called Republicans at this point.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:44 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".

Dumb. There were Jews that supported the Nazis. And I'm sure there was a Pyrex Sr who thought that was wonderful, and not supporting them was somehow antisemitic. You'll never guess how it turned out for them. :roll:
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Pyrex
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:46 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".

Dumb. There were Jews that supported the Nazis. And I'm sure there was a Pyrex Sr who thought that was wonderful, and not supporting them was somehow antisemitic. You'll never guess how it turned out for them. :roll:


Ah, I got it, so expecting every Jew to vote how you expect them to is not anti-Semitism, but someone else having the same expectation is. Got it.
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Airstud
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:49 am

seb146 wrote:
four Muslim women in Congress are anti Semitic because they disagree with Netanyahu.


Two of those four women are antisemitic because they were happy to have their planned trip to Israel sponsored by Miftah.
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Aaron747
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:11 am

Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
four Muslim women in Congress are anti Semitic because they disagree with Netanyahu.


Two of those four women are antisemitic because they were happy to have their planned trip to Israel sponsored by Miftah.


Illogical on two fronts - Palestinians are also a Semitic people and Miftah is headed by Hanan Ashrawi, who is widely regarded as centrist, not radical.
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:25 am

I wonder when and if dt claims he is communing directly with the Almighty, if will that that be enough proof that he is unstable? From what I saw tonight on Anderson Cooper, probably not.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:12 am

Pyrex wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I wonder how many of the people getting their panties in a twist on account of this saw no issues with Hillary claiming women who voted for Trump did so because their husbands told them to. Also, how many call black people who do not vote Democrat "Uncle Toms", or claim that lower middle class people voting for Trump do so "against their best interests".

Dumb. There were Jews that supported the Nazis. And I'm sure there was a Pyrex Sr who thought that was wonderful, and not supporting them was somehow antisemitic. You'll never guess how it turned out for them. :roll:


Ah, I got it, so expecting every Jew to vote how you expect them to is not anti-Semitism, but someone else having the same expectation is. Got it.

No dear. Pointing out that chickens voting for Colonel Sanders is self defeating is stating the obvious. It's not left wingers shooting up synagogues.
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seb146
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:26 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I wonder when and if dt claims he is communing directly with the Almighty, if will that that be enough proof that he is unstable? From what I saw tonight on Anderson Cooper, probably not.


What happens to us regular folk who go around declaring we are The Messiah and King Of Israel and the second coming of God like he did?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08 ... -of-israel
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:29 am

While there are plenty of notable Jewish Conservatives, we tend to bend pretty firmly liberal. But most of all, we have all been taught extensively about the long tradition of antisemitism in the West. The "blood libel," if you will, of the disloyal Jews is an old trope. We have heard this before. We have heard it from Hitler, Stalin, Voltaire, and others.

Mr. Trump has many close Jewish associates, what with being from New York and having so many associated who are attorneys. His son-in-law is Jewish. And yet, this statement of his was a terrible misstep.
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seahawk
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:31 am

Does it not make sense for American Jews to be liberal? While liberals might not support Israel as a state, they surely have no problem with a person being Jewish and would be against discrimination based on religion, gender or heritage. It only does make sense, if you believe every Jew must be fully supporting Israel.
 
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:35 am

Tugger wrote:
Loyal Jew?
Just like the True Scotsman.

I suspect what Trump considers a "loyal Jew" is one that wants to move to Israel and settle in the West Bank and of course can only support Trump and Netanyahu.

Tugg


Nah, a "loyal Jew" is one that works towards tearing down the Al-Aqsa Mosque and rebuilding the Temple, so the Christian Imaginary friend can come back. kill them and send them to eternal torment because they didn´t believe in him.

best regards
Thomas
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olle
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:42 am

777222LR wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
olle wrote:
After mr Trump accusing jews voting for democrating party disloyal or ignorant, isaccusing jews for disloyalty cinsidered anti semitic?

Historicly jews has repetly been accused of dissloyalty and this has been considered classical case of anti semitism. When MrTrump use the same expression can it be considered as something else?

Can disloyalty in general be used as racism? Quite often minorities is considered as disloyal such as gupsies etc. Is that expression of racism?


By the way, can you provide a source that he in fact did call them disloyal? For the future please always provide a source.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/20/politics ... index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49417157
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... democratic


Thanks for the sources.

But considering the romours of anti semitism into Trump family, his support for these "fine people" that many people today consider both extremist and even terrorist movements considering all extreme right terrorist murders the last few years.

Disloyal card has been used thru history against the jewish people. "I am not anti semist, but jews are disloyal" has been a standard model for anti semitism and racism in general thru history.

The disloyal card is today even used by jews as a model for racism in Israel against Israel citizen of arabic, palestinian prople, and a reason to be thrown out of the Israel parliament for example. It is also used to not letting in people into the country disloyal with Israel by supporting equal rights for non jews in israel and it occupied territories. I consider that in this case the jewish israel government using the racist card againt muslims in the usa government used it to get advantages that it previous did not get from usa governments. The problem is that Trump supporter base is both racists against arabic muslim world and anti semist to not for get against the latin south american peoples. The same misjudgements can be seen by israel governments with governments in hungary and poland where the common racism against muslims also backfires in Europe with anti semitism.
 
olle
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Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:55 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Loyal Jew?
Just like the True Scotsman.

I suspect what Trump considers a "loyal Jew" is one that wants to move to Israel and settle in the West Bank and of course can only support Trump and Netanyahu.

Tugg


Nah, a "loyal Jew" is one that works towards tearing down the Al-Aqsa Mosque and rebuilding the Temple, so the Christian Imaginary friend can come back. kill them and send them to eternal torment because they didn´t believe in him.

best regards
Thomas



This is the for me part of the problem. Israel of today has to confirm status quo been forced into racism. Rabbis in settlements even talk of the jewish people as supperior over its arabic disloyal neighbours as reason to continue status quo alternative push non jewish people out to jordan.

So palestinians and muslims coming as refugees to mostly Europe has a anti semit view. Just as jews in Israel has a racist anti arabic view.

The jews in USA and Europe then becomes victims of the antisemitism presented by the Arabic in Germany and Scandinavia together with the old anti semitic views of the extreme right.

So in my view we have the old classical extreme right anti semitism in usa and Europe that like today comes to power with people like Trump, Orban etc. The new is that we also have an extreme right Israel government joining these government as friend and common racist interests.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3695
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:12 am

The following was written by a colleague;

Jews: Disloyal to idols since the days of Abraham.

Disloyal to tyrants since Pharaoh.

Disloyal to little men who wish they were God since Haman.

Disloyalty to evil is a form of loyalty to God.
19 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2019
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2894
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:46 pm

wingman wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Speaking for my wife....

Well actually, if I posted what she said, I would get banned from this site, so let's go with she doesn't agree with him.

Now, as a sideways look at this subject, we recently had a family get together, 16 adults (14 Jewish) 2 for Trump, 8 not for Trump, 4 seriously not for Trump and 2 who refused to discuss politics (in hindsight, the smart 2).


Your family is 87% disloyal Jewish anti-Semites? That must’ve been some dinner.


It was, the El Paso shooting happened during it, it wasn't a good dinner.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17522
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Disloyal jews - anti semitism?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:07 pm

I'm sure this was a total koinkidink! So other than this and the lead guy calling nazis very fine people and evangelicals constantly calling Jew the synagogue of satan and right wingers shooting up synagogues...what's the big deal???

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SENDS WHITE NATIONALIST, ANTI-SEMITIC 'NEWS' TO IMMIGRATION JUDGES
https://www.newsweek.com/justice-depart ... es-1455824
E pur si muove -Galileo

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