DDR
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CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm

I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'
 
Spar
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:59 pm

DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'

One way would be by simply looking at IP addresses, but there are ways to hide those addresses, then there are ways to get around that.

Here's a timely article that touches on this subject and may give you some insight.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... sContainer
 
QANTAS077
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:38 pm

CX is being pushed by the CAAC
 
Ken777
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:25 pm

QANTAS077 wrote:
CX is being pushed by the CAAC


CX is at the mercy of he Chinese Government. Like it or not they have to have good relations if they want to stay in business. Employees need to be sensitive to this situation as their jobs are also dependent on CX's relationship with China. Not a nice situation, but a very real one.
 
stratclub
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:45 pm

If you work for a company then it probably is a VG idea to not bad mouth them or their customers on a public forum. Being employed 101.
 
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Aesma
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:15 pm

In that case it's not necessarily comments about the company, but about the political situation in HK/China.

If I wanted to say things that could cause me trouble, I would indeed create a new account on a social network, with all info fake, new email created the same way, all done behind a VPN, from a virtual machine, maybe using Tor on top of it. Then continue with the same precautions each and every time. I wouldn't use that account on a smartphone either.
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Aaron747
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:27 am

DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'


Depending on the size of the company, there are now a range of impressive investigative tools available to human resource staff that have similar capabilities to those used by local LEOs.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:17 am

I have worked for over 40 years as a paralegal, long before social media and the internet. I have long been required to sign confidentiality agreements where inappropriate disclosures of information in my work could lead to discipline, being fired, possibly face civil damages and even criminal charges as may cause injury to my employer, a client or the general public. This site has terminated topics that go into sensitive security information, information that is proprietary, corporate secrets, that could affect a stock price, destroy competitive positions. That may include disclosures of personal partisan political views that might affect an employer as in the case of this topic.

Of course the bosses want to stay in the good graces of government agencies and politicians they deal with so many will support pro-business parties and politicians to their personal and employers benefit. They don't want lower tier workers pushing for labor law or other policies that would affect a company. It is a difficult situation form both companies and workers, it is an invasion of personal privacy, but is necessary.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:23 am

ltbewr wrote:
I have worked for over 40 years as a paralegal, long before social media and the internet. I have long been required to sign confidentiality agreements where inappropriate disclosures of information in my work could lead to discipline, being fired, possibly face civil damages and even criminal charges as may cause injury to my employer, a client or the general public. This site has terminated topics that go into sensitive security information, information that is proprietary, corporate secrets, that could affect a stock price, destroy competitive positions. That may include disclosures of personal partisan political views that might affect an employer as in the case of this topic.

Of course the bosses want to stay in the good graces of government agencies and politicians they deal with so many will support pro-business parties and politicians to their personal and employers benefit. They don't want lower tier workers pushing for labor law or other policies that would affect a company. It is a difficult situation form both companies and workers, it is an invasion of personal privacy, but is necessary.


All true - but in CX’s case, a dose of common sense is needed as well. The basic reality is the Chinese market is essential to the viability of the company - on that score alone, employees should seek to distance themselves from CX as much as possible when expressing opinions on Beijing’s actions. Positions taken by ex-executives and union officials have been too close for comfort, and they arguably should have known better.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mham001
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Seems Google is the only company large and brave enough to tell them "NO". They should get more credit for that.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 pm

Simply put many companies have codes of conduct and policies that govern things like social media.

While it might seem you are doing something on your own time, employee actions can very much comeback and reflect on the company, so those actions need to be weighed carefully.
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TWA772LR
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:15 pm

I remember reading here that one user said he worked for an airline and would get on airliners.net during work. Then the head of corporate security met him and greeted him by his a.net username.

I work for an airline and I will never log on here using my company's computers.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:50 am

mham001 wrote:
Seems Google is the only company large and brave enough to tell them "NO". They should get more credit for that.


It has nothing to do with bravery and everything to do with shareholders/stakeholders. Most US companies want access to a 500-million strong Chinese middle class, and will look the other way on whatever else.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
yonahleung
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:26 am

This is just CX being bullied by the Commies. A sad state of affairs when you can't speak your mind on social media in a personal capacity.
Why these CX employees were fired is because there are pro-commie CX employees reporting them on social media!
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:00 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Simply put many companies have codes of conduct and policies that govern things like social media.

While it might seem you are doing something on your own time, employee actions can very much comeback and reflect on the company, so those actions need to be weighed carefully.


There are two things being conflated in this thread:

1) Commenting on something company related in your personal capacity, or commenting on something topical while posting either as an employee, on behalf of your employer, or on company time. Companies have every right to be concerned with these.

2) Commenting in your personal capacity, on your personal account, on your personal time. This is none of any company's business, and they should grow a fucking spine.

The idea that a company has any business, much less the right to prevent employees expressing their views and participating in protest while off the clock, in their personal life, is absolutely reprehensible.
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:45 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I remember reading here that one user said he worked for an airline and would get on airliners.net during work. Then the head of corporate security met him and greeted him by his a.net username.


The stupidity of leisure browsing on company time aside, it's also worth pointing out that a.net stubbornly persisted in transmitting usernames and passwords in plain text a decade after the rest of the internet got onboard with SSL.
 
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UPlog
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:54 pm

As mentioned by others companies do increasingly have codes of conduct for employees.

Acting like fools or taking part in questionable activities even on so called personal time can bring unwanted attention to your employer in this era of social media.
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:07 pm

UPlog wrote:
As mentioned by others companies do increasingly have codes of conduct for employees.


And "have a code of conduct" makes it right or justified?

UPlog wrote:
Acting like fools or taking part in questionable activities even on so called personal time can bring unwanted attention to your employer in this era of social media.


Who decides what's questionable? Which of your favourite activities are you OK with your employer regulating? Which sports team you support? Your choice of vehicle? Who your friends or family are?

Also, "so called personal time"? Really? What are we? Slaves? My work contract entitles my employer to 40 hours per week of my time. What do you think the other 128 hours is? Company time?
 
mham001
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:21 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Seems Google is the only company large and brave enough to tell them "NO". They should get more credit for that.


It has nothing to do with bravery and everything to do with shareholders/stakeholders. Most US companies want access to a 500-million strong Chinese middle class, and will look the other way on whatever else.

I understand you are going to reflexively yell "day" if I said night but doesn't it take some amount of bravery (courage) to risk their job when Google executives tell their shareholders they will forego that market of 500 million?
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:10 pm

We all need "Whistle blowers" but the world does seem to have a poor record on protecting them once out in the open. Just my :twocents:
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mercure1
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:11 am

seat64k wrote:

Who decides what's questionable? Which of your favourite activities are you OK with your employer regulating? Which sports team you support? Your choice of vehicle? Who your friends or family are?

Also, "so called personal time"? Really? What are we? Slaves? My work contract entitles my employer to 40 hours per week of my time. What do you think the other 128 hours is? Company time?


Its naive to think you have carte blanche in your personal life when actions can bring negative attention if not harm to your employer. Social media postings and certainly criminal participation in riots for example can have negative fall out for your employer.

Plenty of people have gotten themselves ensnared in problems with their employer for doing things outside of work, particularly in today's world of social media where people post without thinking.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:31 am

There are plenty of social listening tools out there that can pull your posts on Facebook, tweets from Twitter, blogpost etc. I've used some of them in my social media role and they certainly can be immensely powerful. And from there, they can use other tools to pull data to learn more about you.

The only way employers & draconian regimes won't get you if you keep your thoughts & opinions in your head - because even using a fake account can get you discovered!
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LAXintl
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:05 am

Heck employers in the U.S regularly check prospective employee social media footprint as part of their routine background checks and due diligence on new candidates.

I know a major hospitality brand where corporate security is tasked with regularly monitoring known social accounts of employees to ensure they espouse corporate values and essentially "live the brand".
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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zkojq
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:38 am

mham001 wrote:
Seems Google is the only company large and brave enough to tell them "NO". They should get more credit for that.

Agreed.

seat64k wrote:
2) Commenting in your personal capacity, on your personal account, on your personal time. This is none of any company's business, and they should grow a fucking spine.

:checkmark:

seat64k wrote:
The idea that a company has any business, much less the right to prevent employees expressing their views and participating in protest while off the clock, in their personal life, is absolutely reprehensible.

:checkmark: Indeed, it's Orwellian and the idea that a company has the right to control your political views is feudialistic.

mercure1 wrote:
Social media postings and certainly criminal participation in riots for example can have negative fall out for your employer.

Criminal participation in riots? Quick, we must bow our heads to Beijing. We have always been at war with Eastasia, after all. :roll:
First to fly the 787-9
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:15 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Its naive to think you have carte blanche in your personal life when actions can bring negative attention if not harm to your employer.


No, what is naive is adults in mature democracies thinking it's OK and normal tos allow hysteric mobs to intimidate you into firing people engaged in activities that are not only legal, but protected rights. This is how you lose your freedom.

And again, where do you want to draw the line? Just how much restrictions are you OK with someone placing on your life?
 
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UPlog
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:08 pm

seat64k wrote:
And again, where do you want to draw the line? Just how much restrictions are you OK with someone placing on your life?


How important is your job and potential livelihood to you?

If its of importance, then I would ensure being aligned with any policies and not look to rock any boats per se. If you instead want to be a free wheeling young Turk, go for it, but remember less than positive consequences might be the outcome.
 
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cranberrysaus
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:11 pm

DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'


There's forensic methods like tracking IP methods, etc. But I think most often people are just not careful and leave enough clues to tie their online personas back to their real identities.
 
mham001
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:20 pm

seat64k wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Its naive to think you have carte blanche in your personal life when actions can bring negative attention if not harm to your employer.


No, what is naive is adults in mature democracies thinking it's OK and normal tos allow hysteric mobs to intimidate you into firing people engaged in activities that are not only legal, but protected rights. This is how you lose your freedom.

And again, where do you want to draw the line? Just how much restrictions are you OK with someone placing on your life?


Maybe it should be limited to those whose public face is employed by the company. Clearly Dan Rather espousing political ideas might harm the company image but there probably is little to no good reason to limit a nameless, faceless background employee who never publicly identifies with his/her employer.
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:02 pm

DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'


It depends on whether the employee uses the company network (either corporate network or an isolated for-personal-device wifi network). If it's done on the company's network, then absolutely, yes. There are several possibilities here.

If the website doesn't employ SSL (i.e. in the address bar you see http:// instead of https://) - like this site did until very recently - your username and password is transmitted in plain text. Since the company owns the network equipment inside their network, it's trivial to inspect the traffic and find the address of the site used, the username, the password, the text submitted (i.e. the content of the post), and the user's IP address. And it's trivial to find out which user has that particular IP address.

What happens if the site employs SSL (as most sites now do)? Let me explain SSL first. SSL (Secure Socket Layer) has two functions:

1) SSL is an encryption layer. Your web browser negotiates an encrypted session with the web server, and from that point onwards, all communication between your browser and the server is gibberish to anyone in-between. Note, to get to the web server first, you need to make a request in plain text, so your network still knows that *you* visited *that site*

The encryption is done with a set of keys. The key pair consists of two keys: A public key, which is secret and resides on the web server only, and a public key, which the webserver offers to the web browser. The two keys have a relationship whereby information encrypted with the private key can only be decrypted by the public key, and vice versa. The browser initiates an encrypted session using the server's public key.

2) It verifies that the site is who they claim to be. The public key is also known as the certificate. This is a public key that has some information attached:
a) The domain name that it is valid for
b) An expiry date
c) A signature, and who it is signed by.

The signature is provided by an SSL authority, who vouches for you. If you click the green lock in the address bar, you can see the certificate, and it shows that the certificate is verified by CloudFlare, Inc. CloudFlare is trusted by your browser (through another set of keys, which your browser comes bundled with). This key can be used to verify that the signature is, in fact, CloudFlare's signature, so your browser can turn the lock icon green to let you know that you are actually talking to airliners.net, and there is no one listening in-between.

What corporate networks can do, because they own the network *and* the computer you're using, is to add their own set of keys to your browser. This allows them to put a box in-between you and the internet that hijacks the request you make. When your browser connects, it reaches this box, and the box generates a certificate for airliners.net, which it offers to the browser. Your browser doesn't know the difference, because it trusts the box as an authority. This is usually called a man-in-the-middle attack. The box decrypts your traffic, inspects it (and probably logs it), and then encrypts it again and sends it on to airliners.net.

So basically, yes, they absolutely can, and probably are. Really the only way to be safe is to use your home connection, using a computer that has never been used for anything work-related - especially not logging into work webmail or to VPN to work remotely. If you did any of those things, you cannot trust your computer.

Actually, if you're running an antivirus package that has any sort of "web protection" - it most likely does this to you already.

Source: I run these sorts of systems at work.
 
Ken777
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:42 pm

seat64k wrote:
2) Commenting in your personal capacity, on your personal account, on your personal time. This is none of any company's business, and they should grow a fucking spine.

:checkmark:

As long as you don't put negative information of your employer that was obtained at your job. If your employer has a negative reaction to your comments then hope they cannot trace the comments to you. That is basic commonsense.

seat64k wrote:
The idea that a company has any business, much less the right to prevent employees expressing their views and participating in protest while off the clock, in their personal life, is absolutely reprehensible.

:checkmark: Indeed, it's Orwellian and the idea that a company has the right to control your political views is feudialistic.

Orwellian or not companies do have rights to react to what they see as public attacks. Their rights are almost equal to yours.

Simple question: If you are caught making negative comments about your employer do you really believe that you'll seem any promotions in the future?. Any bonuses?

mercure1 wrote:
Social media postings and certainly criminal participation in riots for example can have negative fall out for your employer.

Criminal participation in riots? Quick, we must bow our heads to Beijing. We have always been at war with Eastasia, after all. :roll:[/quote]

It can be easy for us to look down our noses at the "freedoms" that Hong Kong Residents "enjoy". They are the ones making personal decisions and they know that no one is going help them if they act in a manner that costs them their job.
 
DDR
Topic Author
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:50 pm

seat64k wrote:
DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'


It depends on whether the employee uses the company network (either corporate network or an isolated for-personal-device wifi network). If it's done on the company's network, then absolutely, yes. There are several possibilities here.

If the website doesn't employ SSL (i.e. in the address bar you see http:// instead of https://) - like this site did until very recently - your username and password is transmitted in plain text. Since the company owns the network equipment inside their network, it's trivial to inspect the traffic and find the address of the site used, the username, the password, the text submitted (i.e. the content of the post), and the user's IP address. And it's trivial to find out which user has that particular IP address.

What happens if the site employs SSL (as most sites now do)? Let me explain SSL first. SSL (Secure Socket Layer) has two functions:

1) SSL is an encryption layer. Your web browser negotiates an encrypted session with the web server, and from that point onwards, all communication between your browser and the server is gibberish to anyone in-between. Note, to get to the web server first, you need to make a request in plain text, so your network still knows that *you* visited *that site*

The encryption is done with a set of keys. The key pair consists of two keys: A public key, which is secret and resides on the web server only, and a public key, which the webserver offers to the web browser. The two keys have a relationship whereby information encrypted with the private key can only be decrypted by the public key, and vice versa. The browser initiates an encrypted session using the server's public key.

2) It verifies that the site is who they claim to be. The public key is also known as the certificate. This is a public key that has some information attached:
a) The domain name that it is valid for
b) An expiry date
c) A signature, and who it is signed by.

The signature is provided by an SSL authority, who vouches for you. If you click the green lock in the address bar, you can see the certificate, and it shows that the certificate is verified by CloudFlare, Inc. CloudFlare is trusted by your browser (through another set of keys, which your browser comes bundled with). This key can be used to verify that the signature is, in fact, CloudFlare's signature, so your browser can turn the lock icon green to let you know that you are actually talking to airliners.net, and there is no one listening in-between.

What corporate networks can do, because they own the network *and* the computer you're using, is to add their own set of keys to your browser. This allows them to put a box in-between you and the internet that hijacks the request you make. When your browser connects, it reaches this box, and the box generates a certificate for airliners.net, which it offers to the browser. Your browser doesn't know the difference, because it trusts the box as an authority. This is usually called a man-in-the-middle attack. The box decrypts your traffic, inspects it (and probably logs it), and then encrypts it again and sends it on to airliners.net.

So basically, yes, they absolutely can, and probably are. Really the only way to be safe is to use your home connection, using a computer that has never been used for anything work-related - especially not logging into work webmail or to VPN to work remotely. If you did any of those things, you cannot trust your computer.

Actually, if you're running an antivirus package that has any sort of "web protection" - it most likely does this to you already.

Source: I run these sorts of systems at work.


Thanks for the information. That was really detailed. Appreciate all the help!
 
DDR
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:52 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
DDR wrote:
I admit 100% that I am not computer savy, so that is why I am asking this question.

If an employee of a company uses a screen name ( as an example Alexi234), how can a company determine the real name of the employee and punish them? I'm curious because CX has threatened employees from making comments on social media. No sane person would psot under their real name so, how does the company figure out "who you are?'


There's forensic methods like tracking IP methods, etc. But I think most often people are just not careful and leave enough clues to tie their online personas back to their real identities.


That's probably true. People give too much info and then they get caught.
 
seat64k
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:04 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Simple question: If you are caught making negative comments about your employer do you really believe that you'll seem any promotions in the future?. Any bonuses?


Badmouthing your employer on social media is clearly stupid. But that's clearly not what we're talking about here. My comments have been specific: People taking part in a protest (a protected right), against their government (again, a protected right), in opposition to a bill that will erode their freedom/rights. For companies to fire employees over this is unconscionable, and should be illegal (as it is in many countries).

Of course, CX is a special case here - they're being targeted by the CCP, and made an example of. Neither my current nor former employer have fired or disciplined employees who take part in the protests and/or post about it on social media.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: CX and other companies fighting social media

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:28 pm

seat64k wrote:
Of course, CX is a special case here - they're being targeted by the CCP, and made an example of. Neither my current nor former employer have fired or disciplined employees who take part in the protests and/or post about it on social media.


To me, the management is doing two things:
1. Appease mainland gov't, b/c mainland is still a large market for them
2. Weaken the CX/KA union

The second part is particularly important as CX/KA union is one of the VERY few union in HK that actually has some power. The relation were never all that great anyway (but then, is there any union and airlines that get along that well anyway everywhere in the world?), and this is certainly a great chance to "purged" some of those "pesky" union member/leaders.

Side note - and you wonder why Robert Hogg resigned? He certainly doesn't want to be the one that's doing the purge.

Ultimately, we all know it's a matter of "Shut up or lose your livelihood", all the way down from that useless gov't that's incapable of solving the problem. Except that, well, it can backfire badly as people without livelihood has even less to lose.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos