LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:07 am

seahawk wrote:
No, it no longer needs a deal. Now there is a majority for a real Brexit.


Farage fears the opposite as he foresees a soft Brexit and an transition phase untill 2022. The only good news is that he wants to help Trump with its campaign (as if Trump would ask him).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/nigel-farages-project-falls-flat-as-brexit-party-set-to-win-zero-seats.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
Good luck, "independent" UK or better England, see you soon: united Ireland and Scotland. The UK citizens have spoken and put into motion a very dangerous chain of events. I am sorry for the many well-willing British citizens out there, not subscribing to this madness. As for the rest, good luck, hopefully, you will find all the upcoming downsides worth it and you will enjoy your perceived "independence". Remember, you wanted this, with every fiber in your body, passionately..


You can also see it positively. At least we'll not having a Brexit part 100 thread on Anet.... Moreover, no it's time for Boris to come out of the closet and show what kind of Brexit he actually wants. Will he opt for the current agreement, or go for a softer or harder Brexit. At least we now know we'll know the answer by January 2020.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:30 am

LJ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Good luck, "independent" UK or better England, see you soon: united Ireland and Scotland. The UK citizens have spoken and put into motion a very dangerous chain of events. I am sorry for the many well-willing British citizens out there, not subscribing to this madness. As for the rest, good luck, hopefully, you will find all the upcoming downsides worth it and you will enjoy your perceived "independence". Remember, you wanted this, with every fiber in your body, passionately..


You can also see it positively. At least we'll not having a Brexit part 100 thread on Anet.... Moreover, no it's time for Boris to come out of the closet and show what kind of Brexit he actually wants. Will he opt for the current agreement, or go for a softer or harder Brexit. At least we now know we'll know the answer by January 2020.


Report are suggesting he is bring his deal to parliament next week, I guess we will find out if there are any rebels in his government next week
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:43 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
A101 wrote:

Are you suggesting that hasn’t been the case during the Withdrawl Negotiations?

The EU has done exactly what it said it would do from the start and exactly what the EU constitution demands it should do (bar the large parts of bending over backwards to help out a UK that can't seperate it's arse from it's elbow). We knew this, we wrote it, you're still surprised they've stuck to principles of the Union and will continue to do so?

You were promised unicorns, when the decrepid old donkey wiith a traffic cone strapped to it's bonce turns up.........morons.

Rampant nationalistic jingoism is rarely a good thing.



What happened to the hung Parliament you promised?


I didn't promise such a thing. You really do struggle with comprehension don't you. Unicorns don't exist, they won't be delivered.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:46 am

A101 wrote:
Report are suggesting he is bring his deal to parliament next week, I guess we will find out if there are any rebels in his government next week

And the first reading will pass, as is standard practice. The 2nd reading will pass, as it did last time before big ol Boris broke his promise to deliver by withdrawing it.

Pointless BINO coming to a UK near you. Not to mention the constitutional can of worms which is about to be unleashed. Enjoy.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:48 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
And the first reading will pass, as is standard practice. The 2nd reading will pass, as it did last time before big ol Boris broke his promise to deliver by withdrawing it.



And look how that turned out :rotfl: ................ Seems Corbyn and the remainers were to smart for there own good



ChrisKen wrote:
Pointless BINO coming to a UK near you. Not to mention the constitutional can of worms which is about to be unleashed. Enjoy.



Really BRINO.........how do you come to that conclusion when he is on record of wanting a CETA plus, I don’t see anything in the withdrawl agreement that binds us to the EU CU/SM in perpetuity
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:25 pm

Well there is always the House of Lords.....
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Wow, I couldn't see Tories achieving such a comfortable majority! Is WA more or less a done deal now or a bit more drama extension/NoDeal shouldn't be ruled out yet ?

A101 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Pointless BINO coming to a UK near you. Not to mention the constitutional can of worms which is about to be unleashed. Enjoy.

Really BRINO.........how do you come to that conclusion when he is on record of wanting a CETA plus, I don’t see anything in the withdrawl agreement that binds us to the EU CU/SM in perpetuity


Bojo gaining this majority is proof you are not alone believing what he is saying despite so much demonstrated lies :roll:

If anything, Bojo need a VERY quick deal (before year end 2020), or a quick deal (including transition period extention). The closer the relationship, the easiest the deal.
Now Bojo's not as much dependent on the right end of the party, once the WA is ratified, he can very much shift to a much closer future relationship with EU than what you expect. Just to get a deal in time and maybe, if there is some common sense left, to damage control the effect on UK economy.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Good luck, "independent" UK or better England, see you soon: united Ireland and Scotland. The UK citizens have spoken and put into motion a very dangerous chain of events. I am sorry for the many well-willing British citizens out there, not subscribing to this madness. As for the rest, good luck, hopefully, you will find all the upcoming downsides worth it and you will enjoy your perceived "independence". Remember, you wanted this, with every fiber in your body, passionately.

Luckily, the EU has mostly isolated itself from it by now.


Yup! I have several Scottish and Irish friends along with Brits. All under age 50...and they are planning their futures accordingly. Scotland will leave now and the United Kingdom will no longer exist in 10 years. London will slowly bleed it’s world financial capital status over the next 30 years. Brexiteers aka angry, uneducated, old, white, people have cut off their nose to spite their face.

The brain drain out of the U.K. will now start building as a torrent and make the Irish brain drain of the 70s and 80s look tame by comparison.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:24 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
The EU has done exactly what it said it would do from the start and exactly what the EU constitution demands it should do (bar the large parts of bending over backwards to help out a UK that can't seperate it's arse from it's elbow). We knew this, we wrote it, you're still surprised they've stuck to principles of the Union and will continue to do so?

You were promised unicorns, when the decrepid old donkey wiith a traffic cone strapped to it's bonce turns up.........morons.

Rampant nationalistic jingoism is rarely a good thing.



What happened to the hung Parliament you promised?


I didn't promise such a thing. You really do struggle with comprehension don't you. Unicorns don't exist, they won't be delivered.



These are you words


“If you think
a. Boris will win a majority easily, you're very wrong. Even the tories don't think that.
b. Boris somehow winning by a massive landslide means brexit 'will be done' by Jan 31st, you're a deluded moron with no concept of the real world”

And I am the deluded moron with no concept of the real world. :)
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:03 pm

I also said you struggle with comprehension, which you've just admirably demonstrated once again.

I refer you back to point b. The unicorns will not be delivered. You will get a pointless BINO or the end of the UK.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:47 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
I also said you struggle with comprehension, which you've just admirably demonstrated once again.

I refer you back to point b. The unicorns will not be delivered. You will get a pointless BINO or the end of the UK.


Ok. You seem so knowledgable on the subject of British politics (not).

Probably best for you to research more.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Perhaps if your research extended further than a Murdoch endorsed soundbite you'd realise unicorns don't exist, so won't be delivered.

Boris's current unpolished "Turd of a TM deal" is not workable as advertised. He knows it.

(a pointless) BINO is coming.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:14 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
I also said you struggle with comprehension, which you've just admirably demonstrated once again.

I refer you back to point b. The unicorns will not be delivered. You will get a pointless BINO or the end of the UK.


There won’t be an end of the UK for at least 5 years
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:13 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Wow, I couldn't see Tories achieving such a comfortable majority! Is WA more or less a done deal now or a bit more drama extension/NoDeal shouldn't be ruled out yet ?

A101 wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Pointless BINO coming to a UK near you. Not to mention the constitutional can of worms which is about to be unleashed. Enjoy.

Really BRINO.........how do you come to that conclusion when he is on record of wanting a CETA plus, I don’t see anything in the withdrawl agreement that binds us to the EU CU/SM in perpetuity


Bojo gaining this majority is proof you are not alone believing what he is saying despite so much demonstrated lies :roll:

If anything, Bojo need a VERY quick deal (before year end 2020), or a quick deal (including transition period extention). The closer the relationship, the easiest the deal.
Now Bojo's not as much dependent on the right end of the party, once the WA is ratified, he can very much shift to a much closer future relationship with EU than what you expect. Just to get a deal in time and maybe, if there is some common sense left, to damage control the effect on UK economy.


I understand where your coming from if he wants a quick deal, I see Macron/Merkel is already insisting on regulatory harmonisation, but on the other hand he also has to think of the other trade deals to be down with other nations, the EU does not demand regulatory harmonisation from other FTA countries, hopefully boris can stare down that one after all the EU is not the be all and end all
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:03 am

I don't think that the majority is great enough for Boris to negotiate a soft Brexit (although I would be happy to be wrong). A hard or semi-hard Brexit will result in Scotland leaving the UK, Ireland will in effect be united, although NI could technically remain part of the UK. With those two Celtic sections out of GB how long will it be before Wales and the City of London will claim some sort of independence. Great Britain will become Lesser Britain. Europe will be the lesser far all of this. Only Putin wins.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:44 am

I look forward to a Breturn referendum 20 years from now.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:04 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
I look forward to a Breturn referendum 20 years from now.


No chance.

Others may leave now. Once everyone is asked to make increased financially contributions, we’ll see how keen others are to stay.

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of the EU.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:06 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of the EU.


Now that rotten member is chopped off, not a chance :)
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Thanks to Brexit Eu will be much more federal in 20 years time.

EU will also be much more aware to accept Eastern Europe candidates and UK if they do not comply with EU rules in the future.

I do not see how UK ever will be able to return, even if the economic situation makes UK want to return. EU will have strong demands to join the federation that is about to come not the EU that has been seen the last 15 years.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:59 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
I look forward to a Breturn referendum 20 years from now.


Thats fine. Lots of things can change in 20 years. Hopefully the EU can get some massive reforms in during that time period with it downgraded to just a free trade area. Without flags, anthems and politicians. I’d for one be in support of coming back.

Really speaking the EU should of been the trade version of NATO (without US and Canada) and nothing more.
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:04 pm

The key for the EU should be to do away with any concessions like what the UK had and use Brexit to set the date, so that after that date, all in the EU would be equal. The Brexit debate seemed to indicate that a lot of member constituents did not like the UK carve outs and only the UK's continued membership made them palatable, with them gone, uniformity and closer integration should be the charge.

To some degree, we are back to 2016, the UK will be leaving and contagion if any has to be dealt with, hopefully, those on the EU side were not lulled by the politicians in the UK who created confusion.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Guys, are you really trying to look so far in the future when nobody knows what the situation could be in just 1 year ?
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:20 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Guys, are you really trying to look so far in the future when nobody knows what the situation could be in just 1 year ?


Pretty much. I wonder if all those people voting to get brexit done are aware no one still knows what brexit is.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:58 pm

While there was some celebration and relief in the London banks, financial services and insurance as some short-term stability from the election, the damage to the general public is done. Now the big money can bribe the Tory majority to put through massive changes in regulations on the ways they make money, influence transit and final post-Brexit policies, eventually won't have to worry about EU regulations for a lot of their business, get more cuts in taxes of the rich and corporations, the UK keeps it tax and regulation dodging territories. One good for the UK citizens will be they will no longer be propping up Greece & Italy that are financial disaster areas.

Meanwhile will EU workers will not be able to work in the UK anymore and UK nationals won't be able to seek jobs in the EU either. Illegal immigration won't stop much. There will be a lot fewer workers in NHS and picking fruits and vegetables. 10's of 1000's of jobs are or will be gone, car manufacturing is going, less EU tourists, people will have fewer labour, human, privacy, civil and personal rights as Brexit kicks in. Less money spent on NHS, law enforcement, military and infrastructure that will hurt all. Possible that Scotland will be out and NI part of ROI. Many young people disillusioned. When Queen Elizabeth II passes away it will mean a major decline in part of royalty and the UK, the UK's decline for over 70 years after WWII will be complete.

So, you got your new leader in Johnson, a fool for sure and an uncertain future. Likely the Tories will go too far over the next 5 year or less and face a contentious election from a reformed Labour or perhaps a new party will emerge.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:35 pm

ltbewr wrote:
While there was some celebration and relief in the London banks, financial services and insurance as some short-term stability from the election, the damage to the general public is done. Now the big money can bribe the Tory majority to put through massive changes in regulations on the ways they make money, influence transit and final post-Brexit policies, eventually won't have to worry about EU regulations for a lot of their business, get more cuts in taxes of the rich and corporations, the UK keeps it tax and regulation dodging territories. One good for the UK citizens will be they will no longer be propping up Greece & Italy that are financial disaster areas.

Meanwhile will EU workers will not be able to work in the UK anymore and UK nationals won't be able to seek jobs in the EU either. Illegal immigration won't stop much. There will be a lot fewer workers in NHS and picking fruits and vegetables. 10's of 1000's of jobs are or will be gone, car manufacturing is going, less EU tourists, people will have fewer labour, human, privacy, civil and personal rights as Brexit kicks in. Less money spent on NHS, law enforcement, military and infrastructure that will hurt all. Possible that Scotland will be out and NI part of ROI. Many young people disillusioned. When Queen Elizabeth II passes away it will mean a major decline in part of royalty and the UK, the UK's decline for over 70 years after WWII will be complete.

So, you got your new leader in Johnson, a fool for sure and an uncertain future. Likely the Tories will go too far over the next 5 year or less and face a contentious election from a reformed Labour or perhaps a new party will emerge.


It would have been no different under labour with even more uncertainty. Do you think if Corbyn had gotten in Brexit would be more clearer than now.

No one knows what sort deal he might have got or even Brussels would have even negotiated with him. Or even if the second referenda has taken place, what if remain had been rejected again we would be in the exact same place as now negotiating the FTA and then we have to deal with Corbyn as PM
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:53 pm

The Key Quote That Sums It All Up:

“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.” –Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader. The political drama in the UK continues.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:11 pm

olle wrote:
The Key Quote That Sums It All Up:

“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.” –Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader. The political drama in the UK continues.


Can you provide a source, please?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:39 pm

Google comes up with several sources for that quote. You may prefer a particular news source to provide discussion.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:34 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Google comes up with several sources for that quote. You may prefer a particular news source to provide discussion.


Please remember that quotes without a source will be deleted, so my post above serves as a reminder not to forget to include a link to a source. Thanks.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:50 pm

SQ22 wrote:
olle wrote:
The Key Quote That Sums It All Up:

“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.” –Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader. The political drama in the UK continues.


Can you provide a source, please?



https://time.com/5749870/happens-next-uk/
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:06 pm

The battle of EU. membership has ended. Now starts the battle of UK survival is about to start.

What suprise wme is how brexiteers always requests EU to fall appart. Even if I liked UK in EU I feel that liked a divorced couple we need to wish each other god luck and hope we all be fine.

Support for exits in other countries is right now low and support for EU high in most countries partly thanks to Brexit. The most anti EU governments ineastern europe is now fully occupied protecting their inflow of EU funding not exit.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:11 pm

olle wrote:
“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.”

The key to Scottish alternative post-UK future lies in Madrid. As long se Spain will insist on keeping hegemony over Catalonia at any cost, police brutality, political prisoners (with tacit blessing of the EU), they will veto Scottish membership application.

Olddog wrote:
[
Now that rotten member is chopped off, not a chance :)

Priceless, coming from France...
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:15 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
olle wrote:
“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.”

The key to Scottish alternative post-UK future lies in Madrid. As long se Spain will insist on keeping hegemony over Catalonia at any cost, police brutality, political prisoners (with tacit blessing of the EU), they will veto Scottish membership application.


Several ministers are on record saying it won't be a problem as long as it's done legally.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:25 pm

olle wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
olle wrote:
The Key Quote That Sums It All Up:

“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.” –Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader. The political drama in the UK continues.


Can you provide a source, please?



https://time.com/5749870/happens-next-uk/


Or if you want to hear it yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCKiUy5A6LM (at 4:25).
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:25 pm

olle wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
olle wrote:
The Key Quote That Sums It All Up:

“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.” –Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader. The political drama in the UK continues.


Can you provide a source, please?



https://time.com/5749870/happens-next-uk/


Thanks.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:09 pm

JJJ wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
olle wrote:
“Boris Johnson has a mandate to take England out of the EU but he must accept that I have a mandate to give Scotland a choice for an alternative future.”

The key to Scottish alternative post-UK future lies in Madrid. As long se Spain will insist on keeping hegemony over Catalonia at any cost, police brutality, political prisoners (with tacit blessing of the EU), they will veto Scottish membership application.


Several ministers are on recbord saying it won't be a problem as long as it's done legally.



Madrid has problemwith a EU state breaking up and becoming memberstate. They have no problem with ex yugoslavia or slovakia etc.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:29 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Good luck, "independent" UK or better England, see you soon: united Ireland and Scotland. The UK citizens have spoken and put into motion a very dangerous chain of events. I am sorry for the many well-willing British citizens out there, not subscribing to this madness. As for the rest, good luck, hopefully, you will find all the upcoming downsides worth it and you will enjoy your perceived "independence". Remember, you wanted this, with every fiber in your body, passionately.

Luckily, the EU has mostly isolated itself from it by now.


Yup! I have several Scottish and Irish friends along with Brits. All under age 50...and they are planning their futures accordingly. Scotland will leave now and the United Kingdom will no longer exist in 10 years. London will slowly bleed it’s world financial capital status over the next 30 years. Brexiteers aka angry, uneducated, old, white, people have cut off their nose to spite their face.

The brain drain out of the U.K. will now start building as a torrent and make the Irish brain drain of the 70s and 80s look tame by comparison.


You know nothing about who Brexiteers are. Just because you have an idea in your head and want to throw insults does not mean you are correct. Those are the same politics of the Labour Party and look what just happened to them.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:19 pm

olle wrote:
The battle of EU. membership has ended. Now starts the battle of UK survival is about to start.

What suprise wme is how brexiteers always requests EU to fall appart. Even if I liked UK in EU I feel that liked a divorced couple we need to wish each other god luck and hope we all be fine.

Support for exits in other countries is right now low and support for EU high in most countries partly thanks to Brexit. The most anti EU governments ineastern europe is now fully occupied protecting their inflow of EU funding not exit.



Well I would not tar all those how voted to leave say they hope the EU fails and falls over. I have said it a number of times what other members do is up to them and I certainly would not pass judgement on those who may which to do so especially when I don’t live there. It’s a known fact that both the EU-UK will want trade to continue, there are competing issues for both EU-UK now. Preliminary negotiations would have been happening when the UK were rolling over the FTA with third nations and the government would have a general idea on how to proceed. I’m not overly confident that BJ will have it sort by next year but I can see his point of wanting it done by then.

As to the SNP seeking a second indyref they have been plotting that since the first one, it was always know before the 2014 referenda that their was a possibility that the UK might vote to leave as there was a push at one stage in 2013 to hold the EU ref before the 2015 GE, so there are grounds to deny the second. I’m also expecting the SNP to take it to the Supreme Court to test the waters if refused.

But I also see the irony on what the SNP want and using the justification of leaving the EU, if they truly believe in being independent why would you want to join an institution that takes away its own sovereignty and have to accept that they will no longer have 100% control of making laws and judicial independence strange to me. They want independence but relinquish it at the same time that’s not independence to me no different to remaining in the UK.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:20 pm

In the last referendum for scottish independence a majorfactor to stay in uk was tomaintain eu membership.

The scottish were fooled,and has ever since voted to stay in EU. This election scotland voted for independence and eu membership. Will uk respect scotland voters?

NI is the same story but with even more complicated politics. This might not end well.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Scotland more simply could just vote to align with Ireland, two countries, one EU membership. It will be interesting how Ireland and the UK will manage there cross immigration.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:40 pm

olle wrote:
In the last referendum for scottish independence a majorfactor to stay in uk was tomaintain eu membership.

The scottish were fooled,and has ever since voted to stay in EU. This election scotland voted for independence and eu membership. Will uk respect scotland voters?

NI is the same story but with even more complicated politics. This might not end well.


The English showed that they do not care about Northern Ireland, so that will ease the weight of the decision to leave the union.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:11 pm

olle wrote:
Madrid has problemwith a EU state breaking up and becoming memberstate. They have no problem with ex yugoslavia or slovakia etc.

They will end up looking bad one way or the other. They will either look like total hypocrites implicitly supporting Scottish independence while violently suppressing Catalan independence movement, or they will kill Scottish EU membership ambitions because of their domestic agenda.
Btw, Spain has a problem even with ex Yugoslavia.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:36 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
olle wrote:
Madrid has problemwith a EU state breaking up and becoming memberstate. They have no problem with ex yugoslavia or slovakia etc.

They will end up looking bad one way or the other. They will either look like total hypocrites implicitly supporting Scottish independence while violently suppressing Catalan independence movement,


It's called upholding the rule of law. Sometimes it ends up ugly but there you go.

I can't blame anyone from buying the oppressed people fairytale, especially from abroad, makes for a better story.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
olle wrote:
In the last referendum for scottish independence a majorfactor to stay in uk was tomaintain eu membership.

The scottish were fooled,and has ever since voted to stay in EU. This election scotland voted for independence and eu membership. Will uk respect scotland voters?

NI is the same story but with even more complicated politics. This might not end well.


The English showed that they do not care about Northern Ireland, so that will ease the weight of the decision to leave the union.



No, that is an entirely false statement. The government carried on with the expectation on fulfilling the result of the referenda by the electorate across the UK in which it was mandated to do so when David Cameron was elected with a majority government.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:42 am

Polls in the UK showed Tories willing to abandon NI (and IIRC Scotland) in pursuit of Brexit. It was a legitimate political stance then, and it is now. NI and Scotland will demand the right to remain aligned with the EU.

It is my snarky observation that Wales and the City of London will follow. Remains to be seen. Astute pun. LOL
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A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:45 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Polls in the UK showed Tories willing to abandon NI (and IIRC Scotland) in pursuit of Brexit. It was a legitimate political stance then, and it is now. NI and Scotland will demand the right to remain aligned with the EU.

It is my snarky observation that Wales and the City of London will follow. Remains to be seen. Astute pun. LOL



Not really abandon more let them choose, I can understand putting Wales, Northern Ireland & Scotland, but really how on this earth do you think the City of London will follow the others out of the UK. The City of London is NOT a Sovereign state.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:28 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Polls in the UK showed Tories willing to abandon NI (and IIRC Scotland) in pursuit of Brexit. It was a legitimate political stance then, and it is now. NI and Scotland will demand the right to remain aligned with the EU.

It is my snarky observation that Wales and the City of London will follow. Remains to be seen. Astute pun. LOL

I guess the flip side would be was that before or after they decided to abandon the UK for the EU.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:55 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
olle wrote:
Madrid has problemwith a EU state breaking up and becoming memberstate. They have no problem with ex yugoslavia or slovakia etc.

They will end up looking bad one way or the other. They will either look like total hypocrites implicitly supporting Scottish independence while violently suppressing Catalan independence movement, or they will kill Scottish EU membership ambitions because of their domestic agenda.
Btw, Spain has a problem even with ex Yugoslavia.

Spain is a member of the EU, with a veto on new accessions and could and likely would thus block Catalunya.

The UK won't be any longer, so Scotland would be welcome.

Scotland and Catalunya are very different in many respects.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:10 am

A101 wrote:
Well I would not tar all those how voted to leave say they hope the EU fails and falls over.

Haven't you been one of the louder ones at that?

I have said it a number of times what other members do is up to them and I certainly would not pass judgement on those who may which to do so especially when I don’t live there. It’s a known fact that both the EU-UK will want trade to continue, there are competing issues for both EU-UK now.

Yes, but Theresa May and Boris Johnson have already had to realize to their chagrin that the European Union takes its priorities on the protection of its Single Market and of all its other structures deadly serious – and everything else is secondary to that.

Illusions about that fact have been instrumental in the Brexit propaganda, but they have only been illusions all along.

Preliminary negotiations would have been happening when the UK were rolling over the FTA with third nations and the government would have a general idea on how to proceed. I’m not overly confident that BJ will have it sort by next year but I can see his point of wanting it done by then.

And I'd want to win the Lottery...!

As to the SNP seeking a second indyref they have been plotting that since the first one, it was always know before the 2014 referenda that their was a possibility that the UK might vote to leave as there was a push at one stage in 2013 to hold the EU ref before the 2015 GE, so there are grounds to deny the second.

The use of false pretenses in the first IndyRef lends no justification to the denial of a new one whatsoever.

But I also see the irony on what the SNP want and using the justification of leaving the EU, if they truly believe in being independent why would you want to join an institution that takes away its own sovereignty and have to accept that they will no longer have 100% control of making laws and judicial independence strange to me. They want independence but relinquish it at the same time that’s not independence to me no different to remaining in the UK.

Yeah, well, you're still clinging to the propaganda lies from the Brexit campaign but by now the relative weights of Ireland (fully backed by the other 26 EU members) vs. the UK should have been able to open your eyes to how national sovereignty is actually amplified by EU mambership – and no larger country had actually benefitted from that to the extent the UK had, ironically.

You're now throwing your influence away in exchange for a voteless, completely dependent state followed by a still voteless state afterwards where you'll have to follow external rules and regulations to an extent the UK has never known in its recent history – with zero say on any of it!

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