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Klaus
Posts: 21770
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:01 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Happy Christmas to one and all.

For those supporting Brexit, get ready to enjoy the next few months. For remainers, time to find a new fad.

So the usual nasty leaver attitude, even towards your own compatriots.
Gets you right into the spirit of the season... :roll:
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Arion640 wrote:
There would be civil war in Ireland if you tried to unite the two. It really isn’t as easy as you make out.

Probably – If we did that.

Not so likely, though, when the northern irish population take that decision themselves.

After all: Republicans fought against a foreign occupation regime, and Unionists fought the Republicans.

But if Ireland unites after a border poll, what pretext could Unionists have to take up arms? Demanding that an actually thoroughly disinterested english government re-occupy Northern Ireland?

Republicans could simply wait until the laughing and shrugging of shoulders was done.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:39 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Happy Christmas to one and all.

For those supporting Brexit, get ready to enjoy the next few months. For remainers, time to find a new fad.


I agree. Time to unite and level up.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:22 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Happy Christmas to one and all.

For those supporting Brexit, get ready to enjoy the next few months. For remainers, time to find a new fad.

So the usual nasty leaver attitude, even towards your own compatriots.
Gets you right into the spirit of the season... :roll:


Wow. You read that as being nasty.

Maybe it is time for remainers to be a little more mature Arion640 suggests, to unite and move on, rather than hysterical digs?

Merry Christmas Klaus.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:57 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Happy Christmas to one and all.

For those supporting Brexit, get ready to enjoy the next few months. For remainers, time to find a new fad.

So the usual nasty leaver attitude, even towards your own compatriots.
Gets you right into the spirit of the season... :roll:


Wow. You read that as being nasty.

Smirking about ramming through your own agenda and at the same time dismissing other people's objections as a mere "fad"?

Yeah, that's pretty nasty and the exact opposite of uniting people in the UK.

Maybe it is time for remainers to be a little more mature Arion640 suggests, to unite and move on, rather than hysterical digs?

Are you not even noticing your own attitude any more?

Merry Christmas Klaus.

Happy holidays to everyone!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:18 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
So the usual nasty leaver attitude, even towards your own compatriots.
Gets you right into the spirit of the season... :roll:


Wow. You read that as being nasty.

Smirking about ramming through your own agenda and at the same time dismissing other people's objections as a mere "fad"?

Yeah, that's pretty nasty and the exact opposite of uniting people in the UK.

Maybe it is time for remainers to be a little more mature Arion640 suggests, to unite and move on, rather than hysterical digs?

Are you not even noticing your own attitude any more?

Merry Christmas Klaus.

Happy holidays to everyone!


Hey I have every reason to smirk. For 3 years we’ve had knowitalls on here telling us with their claimed expertise that we’ll never leave the EU and that UK citizens do not want it, despite every election showing otherwise.

And lets look at where we are now.

Happy 2020 everyone.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 13102
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:25 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Wow. You read that as being nasty.

Smirking about ramming through your own agenda and at the same time dismissing other people's objections as a mere "fad"?

Yeah, that's pretty nasty and the exact opposite of uniting people in the UK.

Maybe it is time for remainers to be a little more mature Arion640 suggests, to unite and move on, rather than hysterical digs?

Are you not even noticing your own attitude any more?

Merry Christmas Klaus.

Happy holidays to everyone!


Hey I have every reason to smirk. For 3 years we’ve had knowitalls on here telling us with their claimed expertise that we’ll never leave the EU and that UK citizens do not want it, despite every election showing otherwise.

And lets look at where we are now.


You show yourself as a bad winner. (although you will lose in the end, strange but true, that seems to be your wish)

noviorbis77 wrote:
Happy 2020 everyone.


All the best for 2020.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:49 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Regarding food, surely if it’s done to the EU standard the UK can export to the USA and the EU?

How do EU food companies export to the US currently?


The goal isn't to export, as the UK isn't a big food exporter anyway. It's to allow US food to flood the UK market, in exchange for US markets being more open to things the UK is actually good at.

The problem with this is that the EU fears US products could enter the EU illegally via the UK.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:53 pm

YokoTsuno wrote:
Singapore at the Thames? So, let's set the record straight here. The Brits kicked the Europeans out because they took away jobs from the native British working class and depressed salaries. So now they are going to replace these very jobs by Indian/Bangladeshi workers and Indonesian maids employed under far worse labour terms?

Am I missing something here?


The analogy isn't used to copy that part of Singapore, but rather the low taxation, "business friendliness" of it. However the Tories aren't seriously considering curbing immigration, they have been in power for 10 years and have never even tried, so yes, Indians/Pakistanis/Africans etc. will be welcome to do the jobs British people won't do.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:07 am

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
There would be civil war in Ireland if you tried to unite the two. It really isn’t as easy as you make out.



Probably – If we did that.


A border poll can only be initiated from Westminster, so its always a political gambit by the UK. I imagine it would have to have overwhelming support for the UK Government to consider a Border Poll as a close poll could reopen old wounds.

Klaus wrote:
Not so likely, though, when the northern irish population take that decision themselves.


That would only be so if 100% voted and 100% voted to unify and the chances of that happening well...…..


Klaus wrote:
After all: Republicans fought against a foreign occupation regime, and Unionists fought the Republicans.


And?

Klaus wrote:
But if Ireland unites after a border poll,


Since the referenda their has been a few petitions to Westminster for a border poll and the total of 4990 signatures overall out of 1,293,971 registered voters, that's less than 1% of the NI electorate. There doesn't seem to be a big groundswell to call for a Border Poll at the moment, opinion polling and petitioning for the Border Poll are very different things.


But opinion polling in Northern Ireland suggests that it would be very close, The poll, published by Lord Ashcroft, shows that 45% of those surveyed said they would vote to stay in the UK, while 46% said they would choose to leave and join the Republic of Ireland, This breaks down to 51% to 49% for unification when don’t knows and those who say they would not vote are excluded.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/09/m ... nife-edge/
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241028
https://petition.parliament.uk/archived ... ons/134815
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/220198
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/254218
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/262825
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/266257

Klaus wrote:
what pretext could Unionists have to take up arms


Gee history hasn't taught you much has it?

Klaus wrote:
Demanding that an actually thoroughly disinterested english government re-occupy Northern Ireland?


Actually Unionist don't have to demand anything if you look at the Belfast Agreement, depending on how far the violence spreads before a border poll its up to Westminster to evaluate the level of security needed to quell the violence, that could mean anything from additional police thru to military intervention

From the Belfast Agreement;
2. The British Government will make progress towards the objective of as early a return as possible to normal security arrangements in Northern Ireland, consistent with the level of threat and with a published overall strategy, dealing with:




Klaus wrote:
Republicans could simply wait until the laughing and shrugging of shoulders was done.


Republicans may simply laugh but then it becomes an all ROI/EU problem if a border poll is conducted under the Belfast Agreement under the ROI Constitution declares that the State has becomes obliged to accept the Border poll results no matter if its 50% +1 and no matter if the ROI is prepared economically or physically if sectarian violence increases, since the Belfast Agreement has taken effect the underlying problems actually haven't been resolved the violence has moved more inward but actually hasn't gone away, statics show that there have been 158 security-related deaths since signing the Belfast Agreement. in theory the UK can walk away from the problems once the negotiations are completed, it then reverts to whatever agreement has been reached between the UK/EU in regards to trade.


My advice be careful what you wish for...……..
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:12 am

Aesma wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Singapore at the Thames? So, let's set the record straight here. The Brits kicked the Europeans out because they took away jobs from the native British working class and depressed salaries. So now they are going to replace these very jobs by Indian/Bangladeshi workers and Indonesian maids employed under far worse labour terms?

Am I missing something here?


The analogy isn't used to copy that part of Singapore, but rather the low taxation, "business friendliness" of it. However the Tories aren't seriously considering curbing immigration, they have been in power for 10 years and have never even tried, so yes, Indians/Pakistanis/Africans etc. will be welcome to do the jobs British people won't do.


The tories have only really been in power for
4 years, 3 of which have been taken over by brexit. We will see how Johnsons government tackles the issue.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:19 am

Aesma wrote:

Arion640 wrote:
Regarding food, surely if it’s done to the EU standard the UK can export to the USA and the EU?

How do EU food companies export to the US currently?


The goal isn't to export, as the UK isn't a big food exporter anyway. It's to allow US food to flood the UK market, in exchange for US markets being more open to things the UK is actually good at.



It doesn't matter how much the UK exports to other nations as long as the product follows the importation nations rules no different from Canada, India, Thailand or Australia.

Aesma wrote:
The problem with this is that the EU fears US products could enter the EU illegally via the UK.


If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:00 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Hey I have every reason to smirk. For 3 years we’ve had knowitalls on here telling us with their claimed expertise that we’ll never leave the EU and that UK citizens do not want it, despite every election showing otherwise.

And lets look at where we are now.

People had been telling you that it was a really bad idea, not that you were unable to do it!

So while you're madly cackling with glee as you're setting your home on fire, that being a supremely bad idea still is as true as it's ever been (if not more so), and I don't see how your approach can succeed in really convincing the other people sharing that home with you.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:16 am

A101 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The problem with this is that the EU fears US products could enter the EU illegally via the UK.

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept

Yup, A101, you are 100% correct. The EU will have to spend more on beefed up border control, escalating costs on imports from the UK.

And that way making imports from the UK less attractive. Meaning less revenue for UK exporters, or in worst case totally lost business, when EU importers choose to use more attractive - less costly - suppliers.

That's what we have told you for four years, since 16 December 2015, when David Cameron announced the referendum. Now you finally got it.

The end of the world? Not at all. It's only:
- UK exporters losing advantage compared to other 3rd country competitors.
- Consequently reduced export to EU, reduced revenue on remaining export.
- UK opinion concerning EU standards losing relevance.

The other way around - EU export to the UK - is in principle the same. Only difference: EU opinion on Brexit is irrelevant.

Some of it may be "rescued" if an agreement is made before 31 Januar.

Happy New Year!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:24 am

prebennorholm wrote:
A101 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The problem with this is that the EU fears US products could enter the EU illegally via the UK.

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept

Yup, A101, you are 100% correct. The EU will have to spend more on beefed up border control, escalating costs on imports from the UK.

And that way making imports from the UK less attractive. Meaning less revenue for UK exporters, or in worst case totally lost business, when EU importers choose to use more attractive - less costly - suppliers.

That's what we have told you for four years, since 16 December 2015, when David Cameron announced the referendum. Now you finally got it.

The end of the world? Not at all. It's only:
- UK exporters losing advantage compared to other 3rd country competitors.
- Consequently reduced export to EU, reduced revenue on remaining export.
- UK opinion concerning EU standards losing relevance.

The other way around - EU export to the UK - is in principle the same. Only difference: EU opinion on Brexit is irrelevant.

Some of it may be "rescued" if an agreement is made before 31 Januar.

Happy New Year!



No I haven't finally got it, its been known and I have known since the beginning and cross border trade was always going to be determined under the Future Trade Agreement if there is one. What Aesma is alluding to is the EU wants regulatory alignment so the US or any other nation that sends goods to the UK is doing so in an equal fashion to what is the current situation in the EU, its about protecting the current UK/EU market trade in goods which in turn will most likely see less competition for the EU

Its got nothing to do with fears that US manufactured goods entering via the UK, the US or any other nations prescribed business unit can send non conforming products to the EU directly its then up to the EU to provide market surveillance and compliance of products shipment from the UK will be no different from shipments via AU/NZ US or any other nation where standards differ. its no different if goods were checked at a higher level from the EU to AU the importer wears any additional costs. All those points you raise are just as consequential to EU trade to the UK, oh and an agreement has already been reached between the EU/UK its called the withdrawal agreement, then we commence talks on the FTA
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:22 am

A101 wrote:
If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


Thus you finally understand why the EU needs a border between NI and ROI? Moreover, aslo why the root cause is not the EU but the UK? If the UK chooses to diverge from EU regulations, the EU must protect its market (as would UK do in a similar situation).

Anyway, the goodbye Brexit party is now on February 29th (they probably couldn't get permission for January 31st).

https://www.brexitaanzee.nl/en/
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:35 am

LJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


Thus you finally understand why the EU needs a border between NI and ROI? Moreover, aslo why the root cause is not the EU but the UK? If the UK chooses to diverge from EU regulations, the EU must protect its market (as would UK do in a similar situation).

Anyway, the goodbye Brexit party is now on February 29th (they probably couldn't get permission for January 31st).

https://www.brexitaanzee.nl/en/


Indeed, like I said many times, Brexiteers believe in exporting their problems to others.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:42 am

prebennorholm wrote:
A101 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The problem with this is that the EU fears US products could enter the EU illegally via the UK.

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept

Yup, A101, you are 100% correct. The EU will have to spend more on beefed up border control, escalating costs on imports from the UK.

And that way making imports from the UK less attractive. Meaning less revenue for UK exporters, or in worst case totally lost business, when EU importers choose to use more attractive - less costly - suppliers.

That's what we have told you for four years, since 16 December 2015, when David Cameron announced the referendum. Now you finally got it.

The end of the world? Not at all. It's only:
- UK exporters losing advantage compared to other 3rd country competitors.
- Consequently reduced export to EU, reduced revenue on remaining export.
- UK opinion concerning EU standards losing relevance.

The other way around - EU export to the UK - is in principle the same. Only difference: EU opinion on Brexit is irrelevant.

Some of it may be "rescued" if an agreement is made before 31 Januar.

Happy New Year!


Well according to previous discussions on these threads, britain doesn’t produce anything worth having anyway, so you can’t have it both ways!
 
YokoTsuno
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:07 am

Have to disagree with those who say so.

1) English breakfast, unbeatable.
2) Bentley, maybe one day if the 4D gods are on my side.
3) Aston Martin, if Bentley goes bust that is
4) Mini, probably more realistic
5) Marks & Spencer, the only brand that seems to fit me, always wondered why. I don't even remotely look british.
6) Baileys
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:18 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
Have to disagree with those who say so.


Uhmm, Britain has some wonderful companies and a lot of good people, but this list, I have to disagree with that :lol:

YokoTsuno wrote:
1) English breakfast, unbeatable.

--> yak, really vet and more vet on an empty stomach, my stomach doesn't agree with it. Not really exportable because you can make it with local foot anyhow. :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) Bentley, maybe one day if the 4D gods are on my side.

Volkswagen Group

YokoTsuno wrote:
3) Aston Martin, if Bentley goes bust that is

Investment Dar, David Richards, ADEEM Investment and Wealth Management Company

YokoTsuno wrote:
4) Mini, probably more realistic

BMW

YokoTsuno wrote:
5) Marks & Spencer, the only brand that seems to fit me, always wondered why. I don't even remotely look british.

Ok, not my store, but fine I guess :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
6) Baileys

You mean: Baileys Irish Cream :smile:

So we are left with M&S our of that list............... :lol:
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:43 am

LJ wrote:

A101 wrote:
If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


Thus you finally understand why the EU needs a border between NI and ROI? Moreover, aslo why the root cause is not the EU but the UK? If the UK chooses to diverge from EU regulations, the EU must protect its market (as would UK do in a similar situation).






Really you think I can’t understand the need for customs control between nations and I finally understand why the EU needs to protect the single market :rotfl:

Your post just goes to show how remainers are arrogant and condescending, seems you have been listening to the remainers illustion of truth propaganda machine too much


LJ wrote:
Anyway, the goodbye Brexit party is now on February 29th (they probably couldn't get permission for January 31st).

https://www.brexitaanzee.nl/en/



Don’t worry maybe the Dutch will raise a glass when Big Ben rings out on exit day
 
VSMUT
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:56 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
1) English breakfast, unbeatable.


Generally made from imported goods though. Good baked beans will unfortunatly be difficult to source post-brexit.

I would add Airfix model kits.

On the positive side, we avoid Marmite.


Dutchy wrote:
--> yak, really vet and more vet on an empty stomach, my stomach doesn't agree with it. Not really exportable because you can make it with local foot anyhow. :smile:


Dutch people always were a strange bunch :duck:
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:20 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
4) Mini, probably more realistic


They make MINI's in The Netherlands as well. It's not made in the UK only. Moreover, large part of a MINI is made from parts either produced or assembled in the EU. It's R&D is in Germany at BMW HQ. Thus a MINI is only partially British.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:40 am

 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:09 pm

A101 wrote:

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


So you agree that unless there is major rule alignment goods need to be thoroughly checked?

It's what the EU has been saying from day one.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Hey I have every reason to smirk. For 3 years we’ve had knowitalls on here telling us with their claimed expertise that we’ll never leave the EU and that UK citizens do not want it, despite every election showing otherwise.

And lets look at where we are now.

People had been telling you that it was a really bad idea, not that you were unable to do it!

So while you're madly cackling with glee as you're setting your home on fire, that being a supremely bad idea still is as true as it's ever been (if not more so), and I don't see how your approach can succeed in really convincing the other people sharing that home with you.


People thought it was a bad idea without any expertise to truly understand why.

Reading tabloids and posting links to the Guardian newspaper, does not make one an expert or a font of knowledge Klaus.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:34 pm

Dutchy wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Have to disagree with those who say so.


Uhmm, Britain has some wonderful companies and a lot of good people, but this list, I have to disagree with that :lol:

YokoTsuno wrote:
1) English breakfast, unbeatable.

--> yak, really vet and more vet on an empty stomach, my stomach doesn't agree with it. Not really exportable because you can make it with local foot anyhow. :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) Bentley, maybe one day if the 4D gods are on my side.

Volkswagen Group

YokoTsuno wrote:
3) Aston Martin, if Bentley goes bust that is

Investment Dar, David Richards, ADEEM Investment and Wealth Management Company

YokoTsuno wrote:
4) Mini, probably more realistic

BMW

YokoTsuno wrote:
5) Marks & Spencer, the only brand that seems to fit me, always wondered why. I don't even remotely look british.

Ok, not my store, but fine I guess :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
6) Baileys

You mean: Baileys Irish Cream :smile:

So we are left with M&S our of that list............... :lol:


I believe baileys is owned by a british company but made in Ireland, so take your pick!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:52 pm

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


So you agree that unless there is major rule alignment goods need to be thoroughly checked?

It's what the EU has been saying from day one.


Your post comes across that its a a major revelation, we are currently part of the EU and have been for quite sometime and have a pretty good understanding of how the union customs code works even importing into the EU from third nations work even those the do not have standards alignment, as I said no big revelation
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:


Oh well. Life goes on.

We will still be friends. Just not as close friends.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:02 pm

A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
One problem in this thread as mentioned is the UK and many here miss that for EU brexit is something that need to be closed. I consider that mr Macron is pretty close of the majority of EU population. Let us move on and start work on problems that is more urgent like develop a full integrated service market, defence union (was not on the table before brexit, but with Trump and Brexit things seems to happen fast), border customs force, eitas etc.

Thanks to Brexit both Uk and EU will look very different in 10 years from now, including that France and other latin countries will get much more influance.

Regarding what happens in Eastern europe it is one reaction topost communist neo liberal thoughts that in manty cases became a robbery activity.

I assume that in a few years there will be another reaction to what happens right now. The younger generation walk away from the church for example that has been a major driver the last few years in poland.


what’s your vision for the EU?

What changes would you like to see in the EU.


Merry Xmas everyone whatever our differences, I wish everyone a Merry Xmas and happy new year, all ready been up with excited grandkids and big kids at heart opening their presents. Looking forward to the seafood lunch then a traditional Xmas dinner tonight.



I think that the members inEU special the smallers ones, faces a lot of problems that EU and its size try to solve. I remember the crisis in early 1990s when bankers played with us as they wanted. The Euro ment even for sweden with its krona that they cannot do this anymore.

Migration need to be to be if not solved handled.

Security. Schengen needs to know who enter and leaves. If we shallbeable to move free within EU with the advantages this a strict control of people comming from outside need to be the rule. This is happening now with prechecks like entering US and new authorizies.

Economical strength based on single market. EU companies now have a huge home market as a base to act around the world. While WTO seems to be dead in the water, this is critical to get god FTA. For small countries this is a huge advantage impossible by itself.

Military industrial complex and defence. Nato seems to be on its last legs with france and now even germany publicly unhappy. Common defence projects creates high level jobs and industries.

Finally climatechange. Common solutions is needed. Transport solutions needs heavy investments. EU enables this. Power generation and powergrids. Investments is needed and fast with big investments. EU enables this.

With UK gone the solutions of the problems mentioned above will be solved in a manner more following german and french tradition. This probably means that EU willbe more federal. I see that regions with around 10 million people in the future will get bigger responibilities working with efficiency combined with a EU handling bigger infra projects, defence and forreign policy.

For UK this is many No Go :-)

As mentioned from UK perspective of EU being part of UK and Nato even if not steered by UK at least not steered by germany or france :-)
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16264
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:47 pm

The UK already has Singapore (which was a former territory of the UK) with Bermuda, BVI, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, Jersey, Isle of Man and other tax/business law dodging locations territorial islands. I wouldn't want the UK to become like Singapore with very strong limits on free speech, inhumane punishments for crimes (like caning), severe limits on car ownership and so on.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:56 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I wouldn't want the UK to become like Singapore with very strong limits on free speech, inhumane punishments for crimes (like caning), severe limits on car ownership and so on.


But why would it?
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 13102
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:32 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


Oh well. Life goes on.

We will still be friends. Just not as close friends.


If we compare your reaction here with the reaction of Timmermans, we can clearly see what we have known from the beginning Brexiteers are not well known for reaching out to the EU. Timmermans has reached out, he didn't need to do it, but did it anyway and graciously if I may add.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3402
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:22 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The UK already has Singapore (which was a former territory of the UK) with Bermuda, BVI, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, Jersey, Isle of Man and other tax/business law dodging locations territorial islands. I wouldn't want the UK to become like Singapore with very strong limits on free speech, inhumane punishments for crimes (like caning), severe limits on car ownership and so on.


Excuse me, that’s our empire you’re talking about.
 
A101
Posts: 3228
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:22 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


Oh well. Life goes on.

We will still be friends. Just not as close friends.


If we compare your reaction here with the reaction of Timmermans, we can clearly see what we have known from the beginning Brexiteers are not well known for reaching out to the EU. Timmermans has reached out, he didn't need to do it, but did it anyway and graciously if I may add.



And there are just as many in the EU who wish to punish the UK for actually doing what the majority voted for. you may wish to forget the rhetoric by the EU but many in the UK don't.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4321
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:45 pm

A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:

If that is the worry then you have to spend more to beef up you border controls, its not the job of the UK to stop every individual from sending non compliant products across the border its up to the EU to intercept


So you agree that unless there is major rule alignment goods need to be thoroughly checked?

It's what the EU has been saying from day one.


Your post comes across that its a a major revelation, we are currently part of the EU and have been for quite sometime and have a pretty good understanding of how the union customs code works even importing into the EU from third nations work even those the do not have standards alignment, as I said no big revelation


Remind me again who was saying the whole time that a border between the UK and the EU was not necessary?

Hint: not the EU.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:


Oh well. Life goes on.

We will still be friends. Just not as close friends.


If we compare your reaction here with the reaction of Timmermans, we can clearly see what we have known from the beginning Brexiteers are not well known for reaching out to the EU. Timmermans has reached out, he didn't need to do it, but did it anyway and graciously if I may add.


There is clearly a motive for it.

Stirring up the no hopers to fight to rejoin.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3402
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:18 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Oh well. Life goes on.

We will still be friends. Just not as close friends.


If we compare your reaction here with the reaction of Timmermans, we can clearly see what we have known from the beginning Brexiteers are not well known for reaching out to the EU. Timmermans has reached out, he didn't need to do it, but did it anyway and graciously if I may add.


There is clearly a motive for it.

Stirring up the no hopers to fight to rejoin.


The UK would never accept Schengen or the Euro so we’d never rejoin.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3402
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:21 pm

Remainers finally accept their fate:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.lbc. ... rejoin-eu/

If only Concorde was about to do a fly by on brexit day. It would showcase the best of British as well as symbolising our relationship with Europe.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21770
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:51 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Remainers finally accept their fate:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.lbc. ... rejoin-eu/

If only Concorde was about to do a fly by on brexit day. It would showcase the best of British as well as symbolising our relationship with Europe.

Like most of your other ideas, you might want to re-think that again.
 
A101
Posts: 3228
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:31 pm

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

So you agree that unless there is major rule alignment goods need to be thoroughly checked?

It's what the EU has been saying from day one.


Your post comes across that its a a major revelation, we are currently part of the EU and have been for quite sometime and have a pretty good understanding of how the union customs code works even importing into the EU from third nations work even those the do not have standards alignment, as I said no big revelation


Remind me again who was saying the whole time that a border between the UK and the EU was not necessary?

Hint: not the EU.



There is a vast difference between wanting to keep the Irish border as frictionless as possible and a border that is not necessary, you seem to think the border is frictionless now its electronic for Vat and Excise. can you show were someone from the UK has said any form of border controls was not necessary?


Besides no internal EU border is totally frictionless for trade there is an electronic burden for reporting of goods movement just like of goods that enter the EU from third nations in which only about 3-5% is actually checked as well as targeted checks on goods movement within the EU to satisfy member states’ obligations to the EU to tackle fraud.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5539
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:38 am

If the UK does not come to a halfway decent solution to the Irish border, the EU will be implacable. Boris has already hinted at a solution acceptable to all as I understand.
 
A101
Posts: 3228
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:45 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
If the UK does not come to a halfway decent solution to the Irish border, the EU will be implacable. Boris has already hinted at a solution acceptable to all as I understand.



It’s in the amended WA, it still stands even if no FTA is agreed.
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:55 am

Dutchy wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Have to disagree with those who say so.


Uhmm, Britain has some wonderful companies and a lot of good people, but this list, I have to disagree with that :lol:

YokoTsuno wrote:
1) English breakfast, unbeatable.

--> yak, really vet and more vet on an empty stomach, my stomach doesn't agree with it. Not really exportable because you can make it with local foot anyhow. :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) Bentley, maybe one day if the 4D gods are on my side.

Volkswagen Group

YokoTsuno wrote:
3) Aston Martin, if Bentley goes bust that is

Investment Dar, David Richards, ADEEM Investment and Wealth Management Company

YokoTsuno wrote:
4) Mini, probably more realistic

BMW

YokoTsuno wrote:
5) Marks & Spencer, the only brand that seems to fit me, always wondered why. I don't even remotely look british.

Ok, not my store, but fine I guess :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
6) Baileys

You mean: Baileys Irish Cream :smile:

So we are left with M&S our of that list............... :lol:
By that measure there's nothing left in this world that actually "belongs" to a specific country.

I work for a German company. R&D is partly done in Singapore, easily 80% of components are Chinese. Assembly is done in Malaysia. What makes that product German? Only one thing, association.

In this day and age you buy a brand name and design, not a box of parts. Can you picture a Mini with EU or whatever flag mirrors and tail lights? Even when the UK will break up, as many here believe, this Union Jack design will live on as it is a brand in its own right. Extremely unlikely it will disappear from the Mini looks.

I guess the above here goes back to the very core of this Brexit drama. If I am not mistaken I recall an article in the FT about an EU proposal for mandatory EU-wide 'Made in the EU' labels. Guess who was the strongest opposer according to the article?
 
Klaus
Posts: 21770
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:33 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
In this day and age you buy a brand name and design, not a box of parts. Can you picture a Mini with EU or whatever flag mirrors and tail lights? Even when the UK will break up, as many here believe, this Union Jack design will live on as it is a brand in its own right. Extremely unlikely it will disappear from the Mini looks.

Maybe not, but when Scotland is gone the actual Union Jack as the national flag of just England, probably still Wales and maybe still Northern Ireland actually doesn't make sense any more, so if BMW would keep it on the Mini that would just be a nostalgic throwback like the entire Mini brand itself, using a symbol of a country that would already have ceased to exist...
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25205017
 
A101
Posts: 3228
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:09 am

Klaus wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
In this day and age you buy a brand name and design, not a box of parts. Can you picture a Mini with EU or whatever flag mirrors and tail lights? Even when the UK will break up, as many here believe, this Union Jack design will live on as it is a brand in its own right. Extremely unlikely it will disappear from the Mini looks.

Maybe not, but when Scotland is gone the actual Union Jack as the national flag of just England, probably still Wales and maybe still Northern Ireland actually doesn't make sense any more, so if BMW would keep it on the Mini that would just be a nostalgic throwback like the entire Mini brand itself, using a symbol of a country that would already have ceased to exist...
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-25205017


Not necessarily when you consider that a lot of independent nations have the Union Jack as part of their flag, are you suggesting they too have to change the flag.

Also as the article suggests the flag came under the union of the Crowns not the Union of Parliament


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-09- ... ag/5744104
 
YokoTsuno
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:50 am

Klaus wrote:
Nostalgic throwback
I doubt that.

Britain will have irreversibly changed politically after Brexit, it doesn't automatically mean cultural/product association will as well. There's a reason why people still use the term England while in fact referring to the UK, obviously frustrating the Scottish.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 13102
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Have to disagree with those who say so.


Uhmm, Britain has some wonderful companies and a lot of good people, but this list, I have to disagree with that :lol:

YokoTsuno wrote:
1) English breakfast, unbeatable.

--> yak, really vet and more vet on an empty stomach, my stomach doesn't agree with it. Not really exportable because you can make it with local foot anyhow. :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) Bentley, maybe one day if the 4D gods are on my side.

Volkswagen Group

YokoTsuno wrote:
3) Aston Martin, if Bentley goes bust that is

Investment Dar, David Richards, ADEEM Investment and Wealth Management Company

YokoTsuno wrote:
4) Mini, probably more realistic

BMW

YokoTsuno wrote:
5) Marks & Spencer, the only brand that seems to fit me, always wondered why. I don't even remotely look british.

Ok, not my store, but fine I guess :smile:

YokoTsuno wrote:
6) Baileys

You mean: Baileys Irish Cream :smile:

So we are left with M&S our of that list............... :lol:
By that measure there's nothing left in this world that actually "belongs" to a specific country.

I work for a German company. R&D is partly done in Singapore, easily 80% of components are Chinese. Assembly is done in Malaysia. What makes that product German? Only one thing, association.

In this day and age you buy a brand name and design, not a box of parts. Can you picture a Mini with EU or whatever flag mirrors and tail lights? Even when the UK will break up, as many here believe, this Union Jack design will live on as it is a brand in its own right. Extremely unlikely it will disappear from the Mini looks.

I guess the above here goes back to the very core of this Brexit drama. If I am not mistaken I recall an article in the FT about an EU proposal for mandatory EU-wide 'Made in the EU' labels. Guess who was the strongest opposer according to the article?


Exactly, just goes on to show hoe rediculous the whole Brexit idea is in this dat and age of interwoven production lines.
 
A101
Posts: 3228
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:41 am

Dutchy wrote:

Exactly, just goes on to show hoe rediculous the whole Brexit idea is in this dat and age of interwoven production lines.


Really what’s that got to do with Brexit, just goes to show you don’t need to be a member of the EU to trade with the EU. Out of the four countries listed Germany, Singapore, China and Malaysia you only have a trade agreement with Singapore
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 13102
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:46 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Exactly, just goes on to show hoe rediculous the whole Brexit idea is in this dat and age of interwoven production lines.


Really what’s that got to do with Brexit, just goes to show you don’t need to be a member of the EU to trade with the EU. Out of the four countries listed Germany, Singapore, China and Malaysia you only have a trade agreement with Singapore


If you do not know it by now, *sight*.

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