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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:18 pm

JJJ wrote:
inevitable food nationalism (how many countries are there claiming their cheese/beer/meat/etc. is best of the world, bar none?)


Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it. I always get a laugh when I see all the huge Union Jack stickers and posters in UK branches of German supermarket Lidl...

Incidentally, this is not at all the case in South East Asia - there the more exotic the better. They might be fiercely proud of their local cuisine, but in terms of "quality" it's New Zealand lamb, French wine, Japanese TVs, etc. all the way.
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:45 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
JJJ wrote:
inevitable food nationalism (how many countries are there claiming their cheese/beer/meat/etc. is best of the world, bar none?)


Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it. I always get a laugh when I see all the huge Union Jack stickers and posters in UK branches of German supermarket Lidl...

Incidentally, this is not at all the case in South East Asia - there the more exotic the better. They might be fiercely proud of their local cuisine, but in terms of "quality" it's New Zealand lamb, French wine, Japanese TVs, etc. all the way.


British beef amongst other northern european countries is mainly grass fed so people believe that generally transfers into better quality.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:02 pm

Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
JJJ wrote:
inevitable food nationalism (how many countries are there claiming their cheese/beer/meat/etc. is best of the world, bar none?)


Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it.


British beef amongst other northern european countries is mainly grass fed so people believe that generally transfers into better quality.


With respect, that would only be British "people" who think that.

Why then do the French feel exactly the same about French beef? Or the Dutch about Dutch beef...?

(And believe me, British beef has no standing at all in those countries)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:23 pm

Yes it is an old nickname for the brits : les rosbifs (roast beef) :)

When it is about food, well french are not really impressed...
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:29 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it.


British beef amongst other northern european countries is mainly grass fed so people believe that generally transfers into better quality.


With respect, that would only be British "people" who think that.

Why then do the French feel exactly the same about French beef? Or the Dutch about Dutch beef...?

(And believe me, British beef has no standing at all in those countries)


Yes of course, it’s more of a marketing thing really!

Although I do believe the middle east and china look up to Welsh lamb as quality. Lidl and Aldi in the UK ironically take great pride in stocking british produce, and why shouldn’t they?
 
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:42 pm

Things have got very quiet on this thread since the UK general election.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:47 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Things have got very quiet on this thread since the UK general election.


no news, so nothing to discuss.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:50 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Things have got very quiet on this thread since the UK general election.


no news, so nothing to discuss.


Thanks lord the lunitics in the uk parliament got their acts together.

Also the deal that Boris came with was better for EU special Ireland then the TM version. NI is now in reality under EU rule.

DUP was thrown under the bus...

The battels of Scotland and EU FTA about to start.
Last edited by olle on Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:52 am

olle wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Things have got very quiet on this thread since the UK general election.


no news, so nothing to discuss.


Thanks lord the lunitics in the uk parliament got their acts together.


I agree!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:16 am

Well passing laws like "we can't extend the transition period" looks very lunatic to me, but oh well.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:02 am

Aesma wrote:
Well passing laws like "we can't extend the transition period" looks very lunatic to me, but oh well.



Well we cannot expect too much, but I have faith in Boris. He can lie unlimited to his Tory party and brexiteers and they say Amen to whatever he says.

If he shall make an FTA in less then 12 month the only solution is someting like Norway model. Something like swiss model with many small agreements will be impossible if extensions is out of the window.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:10 am

olle wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well passing laws like "we can't extend the transition period" looks very lunatic to me, but oh well.



Well we cannot expect too much, but I have faith in Boris. He can lie unlimited to his Tory party and brexiteers and they say Amen to whatever he says.

If he shall make an FTA in less then 12 month the only solution is someting like Norway model. Something like swiss model with many small agreements will be impossible if extensions is out of the window.


Exactly, or there are two alternatives to that: crashing out which will leave the trade in ruins and the effect will be immediate on UK economy or another exention, which will leave Johnson as a lair, because of antoher promise broken by him.

So all 3 options will result in Johnson breaking a promise. Not that it matters anymore, but there you are.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:15 am

We can discuss if you like the fact that australia trashed your attempt to get an FTA with free movement if you want to make us laugh a bit more ?
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 am

olle wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Well passing laws like "we can't extend the transition period" looks very lunatic to me, but oh well.



Well we cannot expect too much, but I have faith in Boris. He can lie unlimited to his Tory party and brexiteers and they say Amen to whatever he says.

If he shall make an FTA in less then 12 month the only solution is someting like Norway model. Something like swiss model with many small agreements will be impossible if extensions is out of the window.


Much less than 12 months.
It is reported EU needs a) one month after WA kicks in to properly give mandate to the negotiators, and b) 2 months to process administratively any agreement. So March to en of October, 8 months with a summer break in the middle.

IRC Ursula Von Der Leyen is in UK today so we should have some things to comment later !!
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:42 am

Von der Leyden will not negotiate anything anyway. The specialized team will do it in the coming months.
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olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:15 pm

Von der Leyden must be the gods playing with the brexiteer press in uk :-)

Correct or false the previous was accused of drinking etc, and niw she comes along. Smart elegant and i can believe she will play a great game with boris and the Tories.

The last years the uk vs EU has been going from viewed as the proffesional vs the uncontrolled joke to the totally opposite.

I even have the impression that this whole brexit story in the future will be seen as the moment when thd EU state was born.

Indeed strange times.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:21 pm

Before most people at least in nothern part of europe looked at EU as some kind of UN z talking club.

Now at least me have got much more confidence in the EU parliament and administration and consider them much more competent to handle forreign policy and defence then my own small country with limited weight on the international stage.

I also have seen how important EU has been for a small country as ROI in this process. For me coming from a complicated corner of Europe with Russia playing its game I see that EU today is critical for the future of nordic and baltics.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:56 am

“Brexit is a school of patience.” This little phrase from Michel Barnier’s speech in Stockholm this morning is so true… as far as you’re in EU side, from the other side of the channel it could be labelled with a lot of qualifier, but definitively not patience.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... MENT_20_13

I found very interesting this speech in the sense that MB is exposing his priorities in the negotiations to come, which are :

Michel Barnier wrote:
So, what do I think we should focus on over the coming year?
1/ First, we must build up a new capacity that enables us to work together.
2/ Secondly, we need to build a very close security relationship.
3/ Thirdly, we need an economic partnership based on a level playing field.


I'm not sure but think the 1 includes setting up the actual way of working of the NI border, right ?

Interestingly the economic aspect only comes third, and attached with a sarcastic form of they need us more than we need them to justify that free trade “zero tariffs, zero quotas” will come with some strings concerning LPF, “zero dumping”.

Michel Barnier wrote:
That is why we will insist on making our economic partnership subject to a level playing field on environmental and social standards, state aid and tax matters.
As one of the countries that has driven the creation of our ambitious common regulatory framework, I am sure that Sweden will agree.
Yes, the UK represents 9% of all EU27 trade.
But more significantly, the EU27 accounts for 43% of all UK exports and 50% of its imports.
So, it is clear that if we fail to reach a deal, it will be more harmful for the UK than for the EU27.
All the more so because EU Member States can rely on each other or on the many other partners that the EU has free trade agreements with.
So we will insist on a trade partnership with zero tariffs, zero quotas, but also zero dumping.


No surprise really, but it have the merit of transparency, EU knows where it wants to go.
Can’t way to hear UK priorities by UK’s negotiator in chief. :duck:
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A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:26 am

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.n ... e/11857108


Withdrawal bill final hurdle passed in UK Parliament....over to you Mr Verhofstadtand EU Parliament
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:49 am

Fantastic news. Congratulations to all Brits, a job well done and a first step to a bright future.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:20 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it.


British beef amongst other northern european countries is mainly grass fed so people believe that generally transfers into better quality.


With respect, that would only be British "people" who think that.

Why then do the French feel exactly the same about French beef? Or the Dutch about Dutch beef...?

(And believe me, British beef has no standing at all in those countries)


We don’t care about French beef etc. And we don’t care what you think about British beef. We do care however, that we are supporting local/own country producers and that animals aren’t needlessly being transported across the continent.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:36 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Absolutely... in all the European countries I've lived it is somehow "the best" beef in the supermarket only if it has the national flag on it.


British beef amongst other northern european countries is mainly grass fed so people believe that generally transfers into better quality.


With respect, that would only be British "people" who think that.

Why then do the French feel exactly the same about French beef? Or the Dutch about Dutch beef...?

(And believe me, British beef has no standing at all in those countries)


As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:42 am

chimborazo wrote:

We don’t care about French beef etc. And we don’t care what you think about British beef. We do care however, that we are supporting local/own country producers and that animals aren’t needlessly being transported across the continent.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.


Arion640 wrote:

As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?


Thanks for proving the starting point we were making about food nationalism.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:57 am

JJJ wrote:
chimborazo wrote:

We don’t care about French beef etc. And we don’t care what you think about British beef. We do care however, that we are supporting local/own country producers and that animals aren’t needlessly being transported across the continent.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.


Arion640 wrote:

As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?


Thanks for proving the starting point we were making about food nationalism.


You’re very welcome. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating locally sourced food. I suppose you are your ilk want me to buy produce from a farm shop in southern France instead of the one near my house? Because getting it from the EU is better right as it proves the EU works?
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:29 am

chimborazo wrote:
You’re very welcome. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating locally sourced food. I suppose you are your ilk want me to buy produce from a farm shop in southern France instead of the one near my house?


I think many will agree with what you're saying (myself included). However, what you see is that people tend to support local produce until it hits their wallet. For some this is a necessity, for many others a choice they make.

chimborazo wrote:
Because getting it from the EU is better right as it proves the EU works?


No, but it's usually cheaper and some items cannot be sourced from anywhere nearby. I agree that that means you should just alter your food habits, but people won't do that unless they have to. You can change the price by import duties, but that is not the policy which Boris seems to pursue. One can only hope that more people like you buy local.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:48 am

chimborazo wrote:
JJJ wrote:
chimborazo wrote:

We don’t care about French beef etc. And we don’t care what you think about British beef. We do care however, that we are supporting local/own country producers and that animals aren’t needlessly being transported across the continent.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.


Arion640 wrote:

As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?


Thanks for proving the starting point we were making about food nationalism.


You’re very welcome. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating locally sourced food. I suppose you are your ilk want me to buy produce from a farm shop in southern France instead of the one near my house? Because getting it from the EU is better right as it proves the EU works?


The context of the discussion was how food nationalism affects how much leeway trade negotiators have at the time of reaching agreements with third countries. Meaning food items tend to be extremely regulated and protected as a reflection of how vocal public opinion is on the matter and how quickly stories about food security and substandard food imports spread to the media.

The complete opposite of simple matters solved with a quick handshake that some posters seemed to imply.

And I made a point of saying everyone does it. US corn and milk, British meat, French cheese and Spanish olive oil.... Negotiators have an extremely hard time trying to keep borders open and farmers happy and the same time.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:07 pm

EU start to define red lines for the FTA and future relationship negotiations to start.

I hope uk comes better prepared compared to when the last talks started with the last brexiteer Davis.

Interesting fron uk upper house is the warning saying the divorce bill even if accepted gives EU the upper hand :-)
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:56 pm

Edit: I posted the response below having assumed you were writing from a French perspective. Now I think you might be in the UK. Maybe don't reply to my line on French opinion using "we" in that case!

chimborazo wrote:
We don’t care about French beef etc.


I beg to differ. Ten years in France and I saw the same thing with the flags all over the butcher's counter as I did in the Netherlands and in the UK. "Pays d'origine" seemed very important for most products, with a strong hint that the best came from France. I also saw a heck of a lot of TV shows and news reports flat-out rubbishing products based on nothing but prejudice - especially gadgets from China and food from Asia.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.


Well, that was the point I was making... ;)
Last edited by SomebodyInTLS on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:03 pm

Arion640 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Why then do the French feel exactly the same about French beef? Or the Dutch about Dutch beef...?

(And believe me, British beef has no standing at all in those countries)


As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?


Uhhh... that's what I was saying. :eyebrow:
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:54 pm

chimborazo wrote:
I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.

Leavers keep trying to style themselves as the sole representatives of Britain, but in fact they just represent at large part of the english population, not even a majority of the UK.

And likewise on the outside people don't resent "Britain" but just the shockingly mendacious propaganda coming from Leave proponents trying to justify their crazy project.

Britain and the UK are actually seen as neutral to positive, if you subtract the sewage being spewn from some over there.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:23 pm

JJJ wrote:
chimborazo wrote:

We don’t care about French beef etc. And we don’t care what you think about British beef. We do care however, that we are supporting local/own country producers and that animals aren’t needlessly being transported across the continent.

I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.


Arion640 wrote:

As French beef would have no standing in Ireland, and Dutch beef likely has no standing in Italy don’t you think?


Thanks for proving the starting point we were making about food nationalism.


Every country has consumers who generally support locally made / created food. It's perfectly natural and nothing wrong with it, infact in many cases if you are as suggested above supporting ethical farming, good quality lower growers then it's a really good thing. You are bound to have the majority of consumers buy food from the country they live in as a first choice if it's not too expensive compared to the alternative. If that's what they mainly eat then they like it and if it's local will be proud of it.

By the way, nobody in this forum thinks that everything British is wrong. Far from it. But on Brexit it's wrong. :-)

The actual reality of what the best meat or food is, depends in part with experience and in part with what you like and in part reputation.

I travel quite extensively and generally find Argentian + Scottish Angus and Kobe beef to be the best. If I want the best beef in Germany I get Argentian Angus, from one of only two suppliers in the city because I know there isn't much German beef and what there is of it, isn't as good. But if I'm on a budget I don't care as much where it comes from as long as the animal was well treated and ideally not halal. Most people who have tried or know these types of beef will likely agree. But only if you know it or have an interest. Nothing better for me than an Argentian Angus Fillet with a good Malbec.

French food, I find generally unless you pay quite a bit for it is these days very overated. English modern food is extremely underated. British beef and I include Scottish Angus, pork and lamb is incredibly good these days. Italian food in Italy is generally simple but incredibly well cooked and locally sourced. Same for Spain. Germany..welll I won't talk about that :rotfl:
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:09 pm

Klaus wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
I will get flamed for this because everything “British” is “wrong” in the views of many on here.

Leavers keep trying to style themselves as the sole representatives of Britain, but in fact they just represent at large part of the english population, not even a majority of the UK.

And likewise on the outside people don't resent "Britain" but just the shockingly mendacious propaganda coming from Leave proponents trying to justify their crazy project.

Britain and the UK are actually seen as neutral to positive, if you subtract the sewage being spewn from some over there.


Leavers are the majority.

Referendum 2016 - most voters voted leave. 52% as representative of the UK population wanted to leave the EU.

General Election 2017 - Conservatives and Labour both promising to deliver Brexit secure 88% of votes.

2019 Euro Elections - leave parties 46% of the vote, remain parties 32% of the vote. Labour, no official position, 14% of the vote.

2019 General Election - Conservatives 44% of the vote, remain parties 19% of the vote. Labour no official position 32% of the vote.

But time and time again, those that want to leave the EU are a minority and most UK citizens are against apparently.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:32 pm

$170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K.

U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants to “unleash Britain’s potential.” First the economy has to catch back up with the rest of the world.

Research by Bloomberg Economics estimates that the economic cost of Brexit has already hit 130 billion pounds ($170 billion), with a further 70 billion pounds set to be added by the end of this year. That’s based on the damage caused by the U.K. untethering from its Group of Seven peers over the past three years.


Link

So that's 200bn pounds by year-end. Draw your own conclusions from that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:28 am

Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:58 am

Dutchy wrote:
$170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K.

U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants to “unleash Britain’s potential.” First the economy has to catch back up with the rest of the world.

Research by Bloomberg Economics estimates that the economic cost of Brexit has already hit 130 billion pounds ($170 billion), with a further 70 billion pounds set to be added by the end of this year. That’s based on the damage caused by the U.K. untethering from its Group of Seven peers over the past three years.


Link

So that's 200bn pounds by year-end. Draw your own conclusions from that.
.


I have used up my free access for the site so can’t read the article, is the article expressly saying we have spent that money or a theoretical amount money on supposed growth compared to EU we have lost?

If it’s based on growth the UK hasn’t lost anything as their is no certainty that growth may or may not of happen if Brexit had not started, it’s Monopoly money.


It’s a bit like my grandfather who was a mad gambler on the horses, I remember one time on holidays in OZ he had taken me and my sisters to Warwick Farm racecourse he had twenty buck to spend over the course of the day he had won about 1000 dollars now that was a lot of money back in the day. When it came to the last race he bet it all and lost, when we got home my grandmother asked how much he lost that day and he just shrugged his shoulders and said twenty bucks.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:37 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
$170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K.

U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants to “unleash Britain’s potential.” First the economy has to catch back up with the rest of the world.

Research by Bloomberg Economics estimates that the economic cost of Brexit has already hit 130 billion pounds ($170 billion), with a further 70 billion pounds set to be added by the end of this year. That’s based on the damage caused by the U.K. untethering from its Group of Seven peers over the past three years.


Link

So that's 200bn pounds by year-end. Draw your own conclusions from that.
.


I have used up my free access for the site so can’t read the article, is the article expressly saying we have spent that money or a theoretical amount money on supposed growth compared to EU we have lost?

If it’s based on growth the UK hasn’t lost anything as their is no certainty that growth may or may not of happen if Brexit had not started, it’s Monopoly money.


It’s a bit like my grandfather who was a mad gambler on the horses, I remember one time on holidays in OZ he had taken me and my sisters to Warwick Farm racecourse he had twenty buck to spend over the course of the day he had won about 1000 dollars now that was a lot of money back in the day. When it came to the last race he bet it all and lost, when we got home my grandmother asked how much he lost that day and he just shrugged his shoulders and said twenty bucks.


So mad gambling runs in your family. He did it with hourses and you with a country, not even the one you want to live in.

Anyhow, it is fun to watch how you rationalize the downside of your self-inflicted wounds. Like I said, it is up for everyone to draw its own conclusions, you decided to ignore it altogether. It is fine, it is your choice. The flipside, of course, is that you will never be able to measure the promise (=lie) made to you for voting Brexit, the immense economic growth, because if you completely free status. If, and that is a very big if, that were to happen, you cannot contribute that to your Brexit either. So you basically make your argument on feelings, nothing but feelings, like a true Brexiteer.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:11 am

A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


Besides you clearly show a lag of understanding of the EU, yet again, what are you saying here? I guinually not get what you are getting at?

If our Parlement wants something in extra put in the WA, before they ratify it, it is their right to do so, your Parlement rejected it a few times, so why can't ours? If that happens then it is up to the UK to decide what to do with it, accept it or reject it, if the latter, they could ask for an extension yet again, or leave without a deal, that is still up to the UK, as it always was. You still seem to believe that threatening to blow your foot off will get you special treatment, it doesn't.

Like we have said before, 3 scenarios are possible for Johnson at the end of the year, given that a full new FTA within a year is not possible:
1. ask for an extension --> deadline not met, Johnson breaks another promise
2. copy an existing FTA from Norway or Switzerland --> Brino, UK not as "free" as promised by the Brexiteers, Johnson breaks another promise
3. hard Brexit with all the economic consequences of it - but you reject it because you say you can't measure the effect, but heck the rest of the world see it for what it is - --> Johnson / Brexitremist will be seen for what they are, liers and fantasts, not delivering the big economic gains what they promised.

We'll see whatever scenario becomes true at the end of the year.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:58 am

A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


Nothing changed since last Verhofstadt charge we discussed upthread : that's posturing, taking ground for the phase 2, the WA is as good as ratified for EU.

And Barnier's team is running at full speed to be given mandate asap.
https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/stat ... 57408?s=19
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:35 am

A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


The only reason for which I could see the EU Parliament rejecting the WA is if it does not find the UK guarantees about the status of Northern Ireland strong enough. But I assume that Barnier did his job well, so the WA will be ratified.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:30 am

AeroVega wrote:
A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


The only reason for which I could see the EU Parliament rejecting the WA is if it does not find the UK guarantees about the status of Northern Ireland strong enough. But I assume that Barnier did his job well, so the WA will be ratified.


&

Grizzly410 wrote:

Nothing changed since last Verhofstadt charge we discussed upthread : that's posturing, taking ground for the phase 2, the WA is as good as ratified for EU.

And Barnier's team is running at full speed to be given mandate asap.
https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/stat ... 57408?s=19


I thought that might be the case. But just wondering as his rumblings seem to be getting louder
 
A101
Posts: 1951
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:34 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Link

So that's 200bn pounds by year-end. Draw your own conclusions from that.
.


I have used up my free access for the site so can’t read the article, is the article expressly saying we have spent that money or a theoretical amount money on supposed growth compared to EU we have lost?

If it’s based on growth the UK hasn’t lost anything as their is no certainty that growth may or may not of happen if Brexit had not started, it’s Monopoly money.


It’s a bit like my grandfather who was a mad gambler on the horses, I remember one time on holidays in OZ he had taken me and my sisters to Warwick Farm racecourse he had twenty buck to spend over the course of the day he had won about 1000 dollars now that was a lot of money back in the day. When it came to the last race he bet it all and lost, when we got home my grandmother asked how much he lost that day and he just shrugged his shoulders and said twenty bucks.


So mad gambling runs in your family. He did it with hourses and you with a country, not even the one you want to live in.

Anyhow, it is fun to watch how you rationalize the downside of your self-inflicted wounds. Like I said, it is up for everyone to draw its own conclusions, you decided to ignore it altogether. It is fine, it is your choice. The flipside, of course, is that you will never be able to measure the promise (=lie) made to you for voting Brexit, the immense economic growth, because if you completely free status. If, and that is a very big if, that were to happen, you cannot contribute that to your Brexit either. So you basically make your argument on feelings, nothing but feelings, like a true Brexiteer.


:rotfl: very constructive post as usual I see, and no not a gambler, but I see you didn’t answer the question in relation to the article as explained I could not open it.
 
A101
Posts: 1951
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


Besides you clearly show a lag of understanding of the EU, yet again, what are you saying here? I guinually not get what you are getting at?

If our Parlement wants something in extra put in the WA, before they ratify it, it is their right to do so, your Parlement rejected it a few times, so why can't ours? If that happens then it is up to the UK to decide what to do with it, accept it or reject it, if the latter, they could ask for an extension yet again, or leave without a deal, that is still up to the UK, as it always was. You still seem to believe that threatening to blow your foot off will get you special treatment, it doesn't.

Like we have said before, 3 scenarios are possible for Johnson at the end of the year, given that a full new FTA within a year is not possible:
1. ask for an extension --> deadline not met, Johnson breaks another promise
2. copy an existing FTA from Norway or Switzerland --> Brino, UK not as "free" as promised by the Brexiteers, Johnson breaks another promise
3. hard Brexit with all the economic consequences of it - but you reject it because you say you can't measure the effect, but heck the rest of the world see it for what it is - --> Johnson / Brexitremist will be seen for what they are, liers and fantasts, not delivering the big economic gains what they promised.

We'll see whatever scenario becomes true at the end of the year.



Others seem to understand the question, but just for you it basically was about the likelihood of the EU not ratify the agreement unless the amendments raised by Verhofstadt were agreed too prior to the vote in the EU Parliament, not that you could not ask for them. As I understand it the vote is still scheduled for a couple of days before exit day.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:24 pm

A101 wrote:
no not a gambler


Yes, you are, you are gambling with a lot of lives because you are in favor of Brexit, the mother of all gambles.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:28 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Guy Verhofstadt is still trying to place new demands for the Withdrawal Agreement to pass the EU Parliament. Do those who live on the continent believe that the EU Parliament should fail to ratify the agreement if the UK dose not give provisional agreement to align with the EU in the FTA, and what do you think are the chances are of the UK leaving without a deal at the end of month?.....or are you resigned to the EU Parliament being a rubber stamp in the withdrawl process?


Besides you clearly show a lag of understanding of the EU, yet again, what are you saying here? I guinually not get what you are getting at?

If our Parlement wants something in extra put in the WA, before they ratify it, it is their right to do so, your Parlement rejected it a few times, so why can't ours? If that happens then it is up to the UK to decide what to do with it, accept it or reject it, if the latter, they could ask for an extension yet again, or leave without a deal, that is still up to the UK, as it always was. You still seem to believe that threatening to blow your foot off will get you special treatment, it doesn't.

Like we have said before, 3 scenarios are possible for Johnson at the end of the year, given that a full new FTA within a year is not possible:
1. ask for an extension --> deadline not met, Johnson breaks another promise
2. copy an existing FTA from Norway or Switzerland --> Brino, UK not as "free" as promised by the Brexiteers, Johnson breaks another promise
3. hard Brexit with all the economic consequences of it - but you reject it because you say you can't measure the effect, but heck the rest of the world see it for what it is - --> Johnson / Brexitremist will be seen for what they are, liers and fantasts, not delivering the big economic gains what they promised.

We'll see whatever scenario becomes true at the end of the year.



Others seem to understand the question, but just for you it basically was about the likelihood of the EU not ratify the agreement unless the amendments raised by Verhofstadt were agreed too prior to the vote in the EU Parliament, not that you could not ask for them. As I understand it the vote is still scheduled for a couple of days before exit day.


So? What has the timing of the vote got to do with anything. As we have learned, extensions are readily available if needed. Your premise is wrong. You want to blame the EU parliament if they want to amend something. You basically want the EU parliament to be a rubber stamp parliament, but it isn't. Personally, I don't think the EU will vote it down, but we'll see.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:51 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
French food, I find generally unless you pay quite a bit for it is these days very overated. English modern food is extremely underated. British beef and I include Scottish Angus, pork and lamb is incredibly good these days. Italian food in Italy is generally simple but incredibly well cooked and locally sourced. Same for Spain. Germany..welll I won't talk about that :rotfl:


Wow. From experience I think I agree with every word of that paragraph! :D
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
olle
Posts: 2026
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:22 pm

While EU parliament right now want to concentrate on more urgent matters then Brexit I think that this from EU parliament is for 2 causes.

1. Remind the governments of EU 27 and comission that they have a veto and with a EU wide mandate.

2 make sure that UK parliament understand that EU is still bigger and more influencial then UK.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:54 pm

EU consider to block UK financial sector access to EU customers if UK law and rules does not comply with EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-markets

EU markets equals 205 billion per year and generates 11% of UK tax revenue...

The game is on.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 11614
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:35 pm

olle wrote:
EU consider to block UK financial sector access to EU customers if UK law and rules does not comply with EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-markets

EU markets equals 205 billion per year and generates 11% of UK tax revenue...

The game is on.


UK financial sector will be cut from EU markets anyway. The Brexiteers want their own rules, want to be "independent", and the consequences are simple to predict: cut off from the EU market, just like project fear has said all along, that's why the City was against Brexit.

So why is this news?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Posts: 2026
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:48 pm

It is quit interesting following yhe discussion in this forum. UK brexiteers seems to believe thst they will get thd cake having the party etc.

How does UK government to replsce 11% of it tax revenue? That is like norway without oil.

Perhaps I missed something but by my knowledge UK has not created a wealth fund for the less happy day like UK ....

205 billion pounds, how many wellpaid jobs is this?

What will happen with London construction industry?
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 409
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:53 pm

olle wrote:
EU consider to block UK financial sector access to EU customers if UK law and rules does not comply with EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-markets

EU markets equals 205 billion per year and generates 11% of UK tax revenue...

The game is on.


Let's rephrase : UK decides to become a third country and is treated as... a third country.

Not having legally guaranteed financial and professional services access to the EU is the default state of affairs for countries fully outside the Single Market including those with EU FTA's. Taking back control is a two way street.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.

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