A101
Posts: 1647
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:45 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:

But you are Ok with that half the UK finance sector seems to run their butts of to secure an EU27 passport?



That’s up to an individual personal circumstance


No responsibility for the BRexitremist, right? But I get it, with your get out of Britain free card.


Responsibility for what?

That when the UK leaves the EU if they wanted to have a dual nationality with the EU they were always going to have to get an EU passport.

What have I already being a dual National for the last 50 odd years got to do with anything, I’ve got no desire to go over go the EU.

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
olle wrote:
So you mean that it will be OK for EU27 to not allow entry for UK tourists behaving bad and making a mess in EU27?



That can happen now border security has the power to revoke a visa and send a person packing or prison if they break the laws of the land.


That is now also possible. So basically nothing changes.



If we both said and know the same thing what’s was your point in responding to it?
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:35 am

Klaus wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
During the transition phase the EU will still treat the UK as a (now only non-voting!) member state, but after Brexit formally taking effect on February 1st all treaties with external third countries will formally lose effect, so the UK will be dependent on those third countries agreeing to continue as if the UK was still an EU member even though it actually won't be (just an EU-compliant non-member).

Is there a list of treaties with third country ending on february 1st (without continuation)?

Strictly speaking the UK will fall out of all treaties held by the EU on February 1st.

The EU is merely recommending external partner countries to still extend coverage to the UK while the UK is a non-voting EU-associated and still EU-compliant country during 2020 but there is nothing the EU can or will do to actually push for that – it's completely voluntary for the partner countries and they may opt to exclude the UK from their EU treaties starting with the formal Brexit date.


If I read correctly this BBC article there is already 20 FTA agreed to enter in force once EU deal doesn't cover anymore. Out of 40 FTA EU have with 3rd country, which represent only 11% of UK international trade value.
Of course not a perfect situation but it doesn't look that bad either, does it ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
olle
Posts: 1536
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:07 pm

Gibraltar consider to join schengen, meaning that UK citizen will be requirred to apply for eitas before entry:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 92456.html
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:39 pm

par13del wrote:
olle wrote:
But the human side of Brittish people living in EU27 or EY27 people living in UK is not concern of Brexiteers. Neither is NI.

Car manufactoring or closing of factories will be becuse that will hit the same English areas that is most pro Brexit.

If the numbers are accurate it is not about the Brexiters but about some EU citizens who despite all the doom and gloom want to remain in the UK after Brexit while being fully informed by the EU of the dire consequences. As EU citizens - not UK citizens - they can leave at any time, they have a Get Out Of Jail Free card, something which the average UK citizen does not have and will not know their EU rights if any until the negotiations are complete.

We know that the Brexiters lied to the UK population who voted for Brexit, what would be the reason for over 2 million EU citizens, since they were not allowed to vote they most likely did not fall for all the red bus propaganda.


Maybe, just maybe, Britain is now home for them and they'd rather not have the hassel of uprooting themselves and their families unless/until they're forced to (legal or economic reasons).

noviorbis77 wrote:

The arrogance, know-it-all-ness from non-experts, cannot be reasoned with.


I thought brexiteers hated listening to experts? :scratchchin:

olle wrote:
Gibraltar consider to join schengen, meaning that UK citizen will be requirred to apply for eitas before entry:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 92456.html

This is actually pretty hilarious.
First to fly the 787-9
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:50 pm

While Gibraltar is not official part of UK but a colony perhaps it can join EEA and schengen?

Considering the officials interviewed it seems serious :-)
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm

zkojq wrote:

olle wrote:
Gibraltar consider to join schengen, meaning that UK citizen will be requirred to apply for eitas before entry:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 92456.html

This is actually pretty hilarious.


Many more people cross by land than fly to Gibraltar. Even those who fly for the most part land in AGP or even XRY.

It's one of those things that just make sense.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:19 pm

I just started the process of applying for permanent residency in Germany. I would have to do it before the end of the tranisition period anyway, but the noises coming out of the govement from Sajid David and the PM have me bothered they really are still thinking of going down the hard brexit route so I thought I'd get it done earlier just incase something silly happens.

Luckily, the process is very straight forward to apply, since I've been living here for 4 years now. I've gotten more help and information from the local town hall / immigration service than anyone I wrote to in the UK. Shows who cares.

Maybe one day I might move back, but a hell of a lot of attitudes have to change first. Each time I go back and read the papers, speak to people, travel around..it's not the same place it was only 5 years ago. I was back there for Christmas. The level of homeless in London was a bit of a shock, so was the state of the roads and towns around the area I stayed in (fairly wealthy part of Surrey). Everyone looks pissed off about one thing or another.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:16 pm

JJJ wrote:
zkojq wrote:

olle wrote:
Gibraltar consider to join schengen, meaning that UK citizen will be requirred to apply for eitas before entry:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 92456.html

This is actually pretty hilarious.


Many more people cross by land than fly to Gibraltar. Even those who fly for the most part land in AGP or even XRY.

It's one of those things that just make sense.


Oh I agree completely, but the brexiteers deep rooted fear of Schengen makes it more than a little amusing that a very "patriotic" British Territory would elect to become part of Schengen as a consequence of Brexit.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:47 pm

zkojq wrote:
par13del wrote:
olle wrote:
But the human side of Brittish people living in EU27 or EY27 people living in UK is not concern of Brexiteers. Neither is NI.

Car manufactoring or closing of factories will be becuse that will hit the same English areas that is most pro Brexit.

If the numbers are accurate it is not about the Brexiters but about some EU citizens who despite all the doom and gloom want to remain in the UK after Brexit while being fully informed by the EU of the dire consequences. As EU citizens - not UK citizens - they can leave at any time, they have a Get Out Of Jail Free card, something which the average UK citizen does not have and will not know their EU rights if any until the negotiations are complete.

We know that the Brexiters lied to the UK population who voted for Brexit, what would be the reason for over 2 million EU citizens, since they were not allowed to vote they most likely did not fall for all the red bus propaganda.


Maybe, just maybe, Britain is now home for them and they'd rather not have the hassel of uprooting themselves and their families unless/until they're forced to (legal or economic reasons).

Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:04 pm

zkojq wrote:
JJJ wrote:
zkojq wrote:


This is actually pretty hilarious.


Many more people cross by land than fly to Gibraltar. Even those who fly for the most part land in AGP or even XRY.

It's one of those things that just make sense.


Oh I agree completely, but the brexiteers deep rooted fear of Schengen makes it more than a little amusing that a very "patriotic" British Territory would elect to become part of Schengen as a consequence of Brexit.


But Schengen would be a disaster for the UK.

I like every person coming to have a passport checked.

I like the Juxtapost Immigration controls in Calais and Dunkirk, whereby we find a lot of clandestine attempts to the UK, firearms, narcotics, underage girls attempting to be trafficked. At least 2 of these a week when I worked in Calais.

I like the fact that we can refuse all EEA Nationals that have been deported from the UK can be refused entry after all the effort we’ve put into deporting them in the first place.

No I like our borders to be as tight as possible (and yes of course they could be tighter).
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:46 pm

par13del wrote:
zkojq wrote:
par13del wrote:
If the numbers are accurate it is not about the Brexiters but about some EU citizens who despite all the doom and gloom want to remain in the UK after Brexit while being fully informed by the EU of the dire consequences. As EU citizens - not UK citizens - they can leave at any time, they have a Get Out Of Jail Free card, something which the average UK citizen does not have and will not know their EU rights if any until the negotiations are complete.

We know that the Brexiters lied to the UK population who voted for Brexit, what would be the reason for over 2 million EU citizens, since they were not allowed to vote they most likely did not fall for all the red bus propaganda.


Maybe, just maybe, Britain is now home for them and they'd rather not have the hassel of uprooting themselves and their families unless/until they're forced to (legal or economic reasons).

Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.

It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:49 am

Klaus wrote:
par13del wrote:
zkojq wrote:

Maybe, just maybe, Britain is now home for them and they'd rather not have the hassel of uprooting themselves and their families unless/until they're forced to (legal or economic reasons).

Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.

It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.



Really those EU citizens who want to stay can apply for settlement status as has been agreeed, as to deportations after the cut off date. I actully agree with it.if they can’t be arsed to comply with the law then yes they should be deported, same goes for any UK citizen in the EU if you don’t follow the rules of the nation then don’t be surprised when they find out the consequences. If you are in the country illegally then expect to be deported when found out.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:38 am

Klaus wrote:
par13del wrote:
zkojq wrote:

Maybe, just maybe, Britain is now home for them and they'd rather not have the hassel of uprooting themselves and their families unless/until they're forced to (legal or economic reasons).

Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.

It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.


What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:44 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
par13del wrote:
Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.

It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.


What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:20 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.


What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?



Should EU citizen be above the law in the UK?

The EU settlement scheme is there to provide certainty for EU citizens if they fail to apply is that the fault of the UKGov?
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:43 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.


What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?


I believe they should be treated no differently to a non EU citizen whose work permit has expired.

If they can support the country, not be an economic burden and meet Immigration Rules, then fine, more than happy for them to stay. But they should not get any preference over non-EU citizens. It is wrong to suggest that one group, who are predominately white, get preference over non EU, who in the case of the UK, are not predominately white.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:46 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?



Should EU citizen be above the law in the UK?

The EU settlement scheme is there to provide certainty for EU citizens if they fail to apply is that the fault of the UKGov?


Not the EU citizens fault that some Brexitremist want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:50 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?


I believe they should be treated no differently to a non EU citizen whose work permit has expired.

If they can support the country, not be an economic burden and meet Immigration Rules, then fine, more than happy for them to stay. But they should not get any preference over non-EU citizens. It is wrong to suggest that one group, who are predominately white, get preference over non EU, who in the case of the UK, are not predominately white.


What? Is this some kind of reverse discrimination? What has race got to do with anything? Furthermore, what has the economic burden (which immigrants do not, they are positive to the UK economy) got to do with anything? Brexit is a hugely economic burden in itself, so no, you cannot use that argument in any form when you are a Brexitremist like yourself.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:11 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?


I believe they should be treated no differently to a non EU citizen whose work permit has expired.

If they can support the country, not be an economic burden and meet Immigration Rules, then fine, more than happy for them to stay. But they should not get any preference over non-EU citizens. It is wrong to suggest that one group, who are predominately white, get preference over non EU, who in the case of the UK, are not predominately white.


What? Is this some kind of reverse discrimination? What has race got to do with anything? Furthermore, what has the economic burden (which immigrants do not, they are positive to the UK economy) got to do with anything? Brexit is a hugely economic burden in itself, so no, you cannot use that argument in any form when you are a Brexitremist like yourself.


If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:17 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

I believe they should be treated no differently to a non EU citizen whose work permit has expired.

If they can support the country, not be an economic burden and meet Immigration Rules, then fine, more than happy for them to stay. But they should not get any preference over non-EU citizens. It is wrong to suggest that one group, who are predominately white, get preference over non EU, who in the case of the UK, are not predominately white.


What? Is this some kind of reverse discrimination? What has race got to do with anything? Furthermore, what has the economic burden (which immigrants do not, they are positive to the UK economy) got to do with anything? Brexit is a hugely economic burden in itself, so no, you cannot use that argument in any form when you are a Brexitremist like yourself.


If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.


1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

What? Is this some kind of reverse discrimination? What has race got to do with anything? Furthermore, what has the economic burden (which immigrants do not, they are positive to the UK economy) got to do with anything? Brexit is a hugely economic burden in itself, so no, you cannot use that argument in any form when you are a Brexitremist like yourself.


If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.


1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


The racism aspect, why should a group of people who are predominately white (EU citizens), get preference over those who are not (non EU citizens).
 
noviorbis77
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

What? Is this some kind of reverse discrimination? What has race got to do with anything? Furthermore, what has the economic burden (which immigrants do not, they are positive to the UK economy) got to do with anything? Brexit is a hugely economic burden in itself, so no, you cannot use that argument in any form when you are a Brexitremist like yourself.


If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.


1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


And as for profiting off foreigners, if I rocked in Amsterdam, lived off the streets, begging, what would the Dutch authorities do I wonder when they realised I was not a Dutch national?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:27 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
par13del wrote:
Well all I can hope is that they are going into this with their eyes wide open.
The EU has been stating from day 1 that the larger party sets the agenda, that the UK will get no special treatment, so whatever life they have now the EU has told them in no uncertain terms that it will get worse.

It's not the EU who's determining how well or how badly EU expats in the UK will fare but the UK government, and the UK government so far has chosen to fan the flames of xenophobia and to unnecessarily harrass EU citizens to win points with the extremist leavers.


What makes EU citizens more special than migrants from Pakistan, India, Sudan, China etc?

Are you saying EU citizens should get preference over non EU citizens?


Exactly. The UK wanted to integrate in an unprecedented economic partnership, and the result was the 3 freedoms. Withdrawing from the treaty was the right choice if they found freedom of movement unpalatable.

Why did that eventually happen is the key part.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:27 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.


1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


The racism aspect, why should a group of people who are predominately white (EU citizens), get preference over those who are not (non EU citizens).


Could you explain why you feel that race "white" has anything got to do with it? It gives me a very bad taste in my mouth.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Yes, for EU citizens currently living in the UK, certainly, based on the previous commitment to the EU, the same for UK citizens in EU. Or do you believe the UK should be unreliable?



Should EU citizen be above the law in the UK?

The EU settlement scheme is there to provide certainty for EU citizens if they fail to apply is that the fault of the UKGov?


Not the EU citizens fault that some Brexitremist want to shoot themselves in the foot.


Ahh; the go to phrase because you personally do not like the result and the first referenda where the EU could not get its way to continue voting to get the result it wanted.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:30 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

If they do not have jobs and cannot support themselves, they would be an economic burden. The EEA Regs currently allow the deportation of EU nationals who are not exercising treaty rights in another EEA nation.


1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


And as for profiting off foreigners, if I rocked in Amsterdam, lived off the streets, begging, what would the Dutch authorities do I wonder when they realised I was not a Dutch national?


Probably offer you help, if you need it. But more to the point and a bit more relevant, you are ok with throwing every UK citizen out of the EU, because they don't add anything to society? (read British pensionados in Spain).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:31 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
A101 wrote:


Should EU citizen be above the law in the UK?

The EU settlement scheme is there to provide certainty for EU citizens if they fail to apply is that the fault of the UKGov?


Not the EU citizens fault that some Brexitremist want to shoot themselves in the foot.


Ahh; the go to phrase because you personally do not like the result and the first referenda where the EU could not get its way to continue voting to get the result it wanted.


No, you continue to miss the point in a spectacular fashion.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 922
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:10 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


And as for profiting off foreigners, if I rocked in Amsterdam, lived off the streets, begging, what would the Dutch authorities do I wonder when they realised I was not a Dutch national?


Probably offer you help, if you need it. But more to the point and a bit more relevant, you are ok with throwing every UK citizen out of the EU, because they don't add anything to society? (read British pensionados in Spain).


British pensioners are not a financial burden on their hosts.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 am

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

1. So you ignore my comment on your racist rant.
2. And you just want to profit of foreigners, how 1800-ish of you, long live the colonies right?

So your true colors are shining trough.


The racism aspect, why should a group of people who are predominately white (EU citizens), get preference over those who are not (non EU citizens).


Could you explain why you feel that race "white" has anything got to do with it? It gives me a very bad taste in my mouth.


Everyone should be treated the same regardless of nationality and ethnicity.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:27 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

And as for profiting off foreigners, if I rocked in Amsterdam, lived off the streets, begging, what would the Dutch authorities do I wonder when they realised I was not a Dutch national?


Probably offer you help, if you need it. But more to the point and a bit more relevant, you are ok with throwing every UK citizen out of the EU, because they don't add anything to society? (read British pensionados in Spain).


British pensioners are not a financial burden on their hosts.


They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:30 am

JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Probably offer you help, if you need it. But more to the point and a bit more relevant, you are ok with throwing every UK citizen out of the EU, because they don't add anything to society? (read British pensionados in Spain).


British pensioners are not a financial burden on their hosts.


They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain


That will change though post Brexit.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:45 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

British pensioners are not a financial burden on their hosts.


They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain


That will change though post Brexit.


Hope the NHS is ready, because many pensioners will be heading back precisely because of medical costs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47214093

"When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here. We like it here and we don't want to go back but if I don't get my pension we might not have a choice."


I can't find a better summary of Brexit than this sentence here.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:50 am

JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain


That will change though post Brexit.


Hope the NHS is ready, because many pensioners will be heading back precisely because of medical costs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47214093

"When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here. We like it here and we don't want to go back but if I don't get my pension we might not have a choice."


I can't find a better summary of Brexit than this sentence here.


They have made a lifetime of NI contributions, they are entitled to it.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:00 am

Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.

>>Attending the penultimate session of the European Parliament's fisheries committee with British MEPs.
>>The big question now is, who will be here to hold these people to account while they still control Britain's waters, but the UK has no representation?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:21 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

British pensioners are not a financial burden on their hosts.


They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain


That will change though post Brexit.


So you don't mind for the EU throwing them out?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:36 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

The racism aspect, why should a group of people who are predominately white (EU citizens), get preference over those who are not (non EU citizens).


Could you explain why you feel that race "white" has anything got to do with it? It gives me a very bad taste in my mouth.


Everyone should be treated the same regardless of nationality and ethnicity.


Really? Except for the British, I expect? Anyhow, no special treatment for any country, nationality? And you are fine that your government is breaking its promise to citizens.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:47 pm

JJJ wrote:
Hope the NHS is ready, because many pensioners will be heading back precisely because of medical costs.


Hopefully this exodus makes for cheaper holiday homes in the Belerics and in Alicante. :bouncy:

JJJ wrote:
"When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here. We like it here and we don't want to go back but if I don't get my pension we might not have a choice."


I can't find a better summary of Brexit than this sentence here.

Brexit in a nutshell.



olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.

>>Attending the penultimate session of the European Parliament's fisheries committee with British MEPs.
>>The big question now is, who will be here to hold these people to account while they still control Britain's waters, but the UK has no representation?


Firstly I thought that the EU was undemocratic and never was held to account anyway.

Secondly, Nigel Farage attended exactly one out of the forty two EU Fisheries Committee meetings during his time as a member, so it's not as if he was holding anyone to account anyway.

Maybe if they wanted control, the UK government shouldn't have sold the fisheries rights...
First to fly the 787-9
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 pm

olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.


But doesn't she get a nice severance package? I recall that the EU pays something to former MEPs for a few months/years.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:15 pm

LJ wrote:
olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.


But doesn't she get a nice severance package? I recall that the EU pays something to former MEPs for a few months/years.


Probably and hopefully all paid by the British tax payer through the devorce bill.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21506
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:19 pm

LJ wrote:
olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.


But doesn't she get a nice severance package? I recall that the EU pays something to former MEPs for a few months/years.

Depends on how long they've been MEPs. The ones just elected in 2019 won't get anything because their aborted term was too short, but long-term members like Nigel Farage can get a substantial severance.

Unfortunately irrespective of his incompetence, laziness and petulance.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 922
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

They are. Elderly Spaniards have contributed their whole life to Spanish NHS so they get treatment for their old age illnesses, a Briton coming to Spain in his 60s or 70s requires much more attention he/she will neber be able to pay back with a few VAT receipts and property taxes.

And then there's the issue of medical tourism by non residents trying to get quicker appointment times for major procedures who fly in then fly out.

This is an older piece, but there aren't many articles speaking about this in the English press (understandably).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/200 ... rism-spain


That will change though post Brexit.


So you don't mind for the EU throwing them out?


That is not for the EU to decide is it.

It is down to individual countries to decide. Given the economic importance of tourism ti Spain, they’d be foolish to do anything rash.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Could you explain why you feel that race "white" has anything got to do with it? It gives me a very bad taste in my mouth.


Everyone should be treated the same regardless of nationality and ethnicity.


Really? Except for the British, I expect? Anyhow, no special treatment for any country, nationality? And you are fine that your government is breaking its promise to citizens.


And what promise would it be breaking?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

That will change though post Brexit.


So you don't mind for the EU throwing them out?


That is not for the EU to decide is it.

It is down to individual countries to decide. Given the economic importance of tourism ti Spain, they’d be foolish to do anything rash.


Elderly residents in Spain contribute a fraction of what healthy occasional visitors on a net basis (contribution minus costs incurred, even after accounting for all the alcohol poisoning and post-brawl stitches)

There are studies out there pointing at a negative return. Cancer, hip, knee, etc replacement get expensive quick.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:50 pm

JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

So you don't mind for the EU throwing them out?


That is not for the EU to decide is it.

It is down to individual countries to decide. Given the economic importance of tourism ti Spain, they’d be foolish to do anything rash.


Elderly residents in Spain contribute a fraction of what healthy occasional visitors on a net basis (contribution minus costs incurred, even after accounting for all the alcohol poisoning and post-brawl stitches)

There are studies out there pointing at a negative return. Cancer, hip, knee, etc replacement get expensive quick.


The Spanish can decide what to do.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:59 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

That is not for the EU to decide is it.

It is down to individual countries to decide. Given the economic importance of tourism ti Spain, they’d be foolish to do anything rash.


Elderly residents in Spain contribute a fraction of what healthy occasional visitors on a net basis (contribution minus costs incurred, even after accounting for all the alcohol poisoning and post-brawl stitches)

There are studies out there pointing at a negative return. Cancer, hip, knee, etc replacement get expensive quick.


The Spanish can decide what to do.


Question is not what the EU or Spain should do, it is wheater you mind or not.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:01 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Everyone should be treated the same regardless of nationality and ethnicity.


Really? Except for the British, I expect? Anyhow, no special treatment for any country, nationality? And you are fine that your government is breaking its promise to citizens.


And what promise would it be breaking?


The implicit promise that their lives would not be turned upside down by a decision of Westminster. Just providing a stable living environment. The basic task of government.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Posts: 1536
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:20 pm

zkojq wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Hope the NHS is ready, because many pensioners will be heading back precisely because of medical costs.


Hopefully this exodus makes for cheaper holiday homes in the Belerics and in Alicante. :bouncy:

JJJ wrote:
"When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here. We like it here and we don't want to go back but if I don't get my pension we might not have a choice."


I can't find a better summary of Brexit than this sentence here.

Brexit in a nutshell.



olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.

>>Attending the penultimate session of the European Parliament's fisheries committee with British MEPs.
>>The big question now is, who will be here to hold these people to account while they still control Britain's waters, but the UK has no representation?


Firstly I thought that the EU was undemocratic and never was held to account anyway.

Secondly, Nigel Farage attended exactly one out of the forty two EU Fisheries Committee meetings during his time as a member, so it's not as if he was holding anyone to account anyway.

Maybe if they wanted control, the UK government shouldn't have sold the fisheries rights...


I actually bought a appartment a year ago in torrevieja alicante from an old UK lady with health problem that was in chock over brexit and moved home. I got it 20% below market price by paying cash and fast deal.

If a UK brexit MEP cannot understand the details why have they at least not spend their paid time in EU parliament to understand the facts?

If they want out, they get out in a few days why do they complain that they loose influance?

Farage sat in the fisheries area why did he not spend his time to change things instead of being in the pub?
 
olle
Posts: 1536
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:28 pm

LJ wrote:
olle wrote:
Interesting reading from a Brexit MEP;

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit- ... ve-9293781


>However, one Brexit Party MEP had something of a light bulb moment, when she realised that in a matter of days all of the privileges of being a member of the European >Union will cease to exist, including her job.


But doesn't she get a nice severance package? I recall that the EU pays something to former MEPs for a few months/years.


As I remember Farage will get nice payments 》150000 pounds year. The new mep will get very close to 0.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:42 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Elderly residents in Spain contribute a fraction of what healthy occasional visitors on a net basis (contribution minus costs incurred, even after accounting for all the alcohol poisoning and post-brawl stitches)

There are studies out there pointing at a negative return. Cancer, hip, knee, etc replacement get expensive quick.


The Spanish can decide what to do.


Question is not what the EU or Spain should do, it is wheater you mind or not.


Whether I mind or not?

It is not really my business. It is up to Spain to decide what they wish to do.

As a dual national with Ireland, I can move anywhere in the EU without hindrance, subject to exercising treaty rights.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:40 pm

Are/does the Brexit withdrawal agreement address how medical service EU/UK will be addressed? Obviously rationalizing this means NHS (and vice versa) will need to be age related. Actuaries and demographers can come up with pretty accurate costs, which could then be appropriately assessed. Even medical tourism can be rationalized. But it needs to be done by an agreement.
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