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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:06 pm

Johnson is well prepared and the EU will be scared. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... talks.html
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:07 pm

zkojq wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
What absolute nonsense. Most Scots are against independence if we go by latest polls. Do you honestly think they will want to turn their backs on a union, they’ve been in for hundreds of years, to join Europe? Of course not.


Actually most Scots are currently in favour of independence. It seems that they're not too enthusiastic about important decisions being made by Boris and his gaggle of Westminster morons.

noviorbis77 wrote:
But the Conservative position is that they had their once in a lifetime vote just a few years back. That is not to say a change in government, if it happens in 2024, would not think differently.


The Conservative and Unionist Party also just built a border in the North Sea so I'm not sure how much their official position is actually worth. Once their poll numbers slide enough I wouldn't be surprised if Boris "begrudgingly" grants a referendum. If Scotland leaves the Union then the Conservatives have a Westminster majority for 30 years. Brexit is more important to Brexiteers than the Union staying together.

Klaus wrote:
Minor detail: An actual US state would gain actual rights, privileges and power within the USA, but the most the UK could hope for would be dependent vassalage without even actual voting rights, most likely below the level of Puerto Rico.

I can still see brexiteers unironically supporting this. You know the same ones who said Brexit was all about "sovereignty" and "taking back control". :spin:

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
You must remember that Scots are nationals of the UK and not Scotland and most UK nationals wanted out the EU.

In short: Scotland doesn't matter, scots should just shut up and do what they're told by a majority in England.

Yeah, and you're still wondering why they want to get away from you...!


Indeed. The lack of self awareness is startling. Imagine if the EU treated the UK with that same contempt.

JJJ wrote:
They need to take back control and give sovereignty back to the Scottish people not those unelected Lords and Royals.

These things cut both ways you know.

:checkmark:

A101 wrote:
No wonder the Israelis were pissed off of with Brussels all those years ago,

https://jcpa.org/article/the-european-u ... prejudice/


Illegal settlements are not Israeli settlements. If I sail to Guernsey, kick out the locals and declare it to be French that does not make it so.

Dutchy wrote:
Huh? Am I correct that you are saying that the EU acting in its own interest is a form of revenge? In that case, sure, the EU is seeking revenge, bad bad EU for looking after its own interests. :banghead:


It's amazing isn't it. Expecting the EU not to act in it's own interests and to give special concessions to the UK because "we're special". Negotiations with US and China sure will be fun.. :lol:

A101 wrote:
Brussels is reported to be saying that in order for trade talks to begin the UK must stay in regularity alignment for all goods and service permanently, that usurps sovereignty of the UK to determine its own national standards,


This was known right from the beginning. If people didn't do their research you can't blame the EU for that. If you want Common Market access you have to maintain Common Market standards.

Arion640 wrote:
They should be wishing the best for the UK and embracing brexit.


They are embracing Brexit by negotiating the best possible deal for Europe.

JJJ wrote:
What the UK cannot do is pick and choose and complain that they can't have automatic recognition without regulatory alignment. That can't happen. Ever. Not for the UK, not for anyone else.


:checkmark: and this was known well before Brexit.


Assuming you’re a kiwi, i’m greatly looking forward to the day the South Island gets their independence. The place has been neglected by the North for years and years :stirthepot:
 
AeroVega
Posts: 432
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:11 pm

A101 wrote:
Brussels is reported to be saying that in order for trade talks to begin the UK must stay in regularity alignment for all goods and service permanently, that usurps sovereignty of the UK to determine its own national standards


I seriously doubt that. Got a link?

A101 wrote:
As I said before vengeance (punishment/revenge) takes many forms.
The LPF rules that the EU want is stop the UK from gaining any competitive advantage.


The UK wants to maximize the positive consequences of Brexit while minimizing the negative. The UK seems to care little about the negative consequences of Brexit for the EU.

The EU wants to minimize the negative consequences of Brexit while maximizing the positive. The EU will show as much care to the negative consequences of Brexit for the UK as the UK is showing to the EU.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:11 pm

EU will protect its sovereignty with regards to any 3rd state. And the EU respected the UK's decision to leave the EU, and establish its own rules regarding good, food, financial service. So what's the fuss? The UK wants to become a 3rd state with regards to the EU. There is going to be a border, there will be friction transporting good, and some substantial share of finance and services will be moving to the EU. Most economists think there will, all over, be a small downside to all of this, but nothing that the UK cannot cope with, given good governance.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21700
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:23 pm

A101 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
I missed this little conversation.
But wow you openly admit you are happy for the EU to use political interference in the domestic affairs in a foreign country.

If Scotland wins its independence, it won't be a UK domestic affair any more, and until then the EU won't take any active steps.

You specifically said you can start accession talks with Scotland on Brexit Day, that’s next Friday. While the UK is independent Scotland is still part of the UK. Therefore you will be interfering in domestic politics of non EU member

Nope. The path is free on the EU side right after Brexit for an independent Scotland to request accession talks. Scotland will of course need to settle its independence before talks could start, and as for every other candidate country, not having any border disputes pending is one of the requirements.

Klaus wrote:
A101 wrote:
When do we start comparing the EU to the EUSSR?

You've been spewing that kind of toxic bile all along, so I don't see a point in that pious pretense this far down the road.

I don’t recall ever calling the EU that, that’s a first for me, but if you are going to enter domestic politics of non-members it’s the most adept calling card

That's been a frequent epithet being slung from your camp, and it's never been anything but an absurd outgrowth of the Brexit insanity with zero connection to the real world.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:34 pm

seahawk wrote:
Johnson is well prepared and the EU will be scared. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... talks.html


He got Mr Davis on his team?
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:37 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
EU will protect its sovereignty with regards to any 3rd state. And the EU respected the UK's decision to leave the EU, and establish its own rules regarding good, food, financial service. So what's the fuss? The UK wants to become a 3rd state with regards to the EU. There is going to be a border, there will be friction transporting good, and some substantial share of finance and services will be moving to the EU. Most economists think there will, all over, be a small downside to all of this, but nothing that the UK cannot cope with, given good governance.



Shhhhhh!!!!! You are not supposed to say this... Eu is scared you know and the FTA will be sooo simple to make and give UK all it wants!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21700
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:39 pm

olle wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Johnson is well prepared and the EU will be scared. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... talks.html

He got Mr Davis on his team?

I'm sure Michel Barnier is quaking in his boots.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21700
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:43 pm

olle wrote:
Shhhhhh!!!!! You are not supposed to say this... Eu is scared you know and the FTA will be sooo simple to make and give UK all it wants!

Yeah, those Brexit campaign promises are worth revisiting every now and then.
Haven't held up particularly well so far, though...
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12974
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:24 pm

zkojq wrote:
I've got a question for olddog: what is Part 8 going to be called?



Good question, we are nearly there :bigthumbsup:
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12974
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:33 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Huh? Am I correct that you are saying that the EU acting in its own interest is a form of revenge? In that case, sure, the EU is seeking revenge, bad bad EU for looking after its own interests


Yes, when it goes above accepted international norms for agreements


Fine, show us where the EU goes beyond the accepted norm. Be specific, please.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Sure, you opened this, so I can comment on it. You are not going to live int he country anymore. So you are not taking any responsibility for your own vote, none. Because whatever happens to the UK won't affect you. It will affect me, as an EU citizen more than you. And that, my friend, has always weakened your personal position here.


Where I end up living has no bearing on the matter, you have no idea what will or won’t affect me, the continued prosperity of the UK will still affect me, as I still will have a vested interest for it to do so.


Really? It does directly go to your credibility. And that's why it is relevant that you are moving out of the UK. Investments are easily sold off, so not too convincing.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

See above, you will not bare any of the consequences of Brexit. So it is easy for you to argue this, it is like shooting your fellow countrymen in the foot and then say, well it is not my foot, so I sleep fine, I am not hurting because of it. Again you opened this line, so you can expect a rebottle of this line.


As you say, see above


See above.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Orban isn't the most reliable person to quote in this context, given its beef with the EU. But if your views are consistent with his, then we have another interesting conversation. Furthermore, you have quoted him twice now, without giving us any context, e.g. the link where he says it, so do that and we can see what he means by it. If you take it at face value, sure, there might be some that want to do that.

Its out there in the public domain, but I will give the same respect you gave me awhile ago, I’m not your personal secretary


Ah, that was quite different. I did provide you with a link, you just declined to pay for it and asked me to put it here instead. Now I am asking for the link itself, that's not being a secretary, that is just following forum rules. Back-up what you claim to be true.

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

But then it is fair to say that some Brexiteers are racists and want to kick out everyone not English. Heck, even your fellow Brexiteer mentioned the EU citizens are predominantly white as a reason, God knows why, but it gave me a bad taste in my mouth. But I will not use it as an argument, because not everyone feels that way. But I guess you are fine with that. It is a two-blade sword, my friend. Do you really want to go down that path?


Why are you bringing this up with me, are you saying I’m a racist?
Have I made any racist remarks on this site?
Do you believe that only pro leave people are racist, and racism does not exist within the EU?
I have met many pro-remain supporters and some who have also been the most racist people I have meet. You say you do not want to use it as an argument, but you obviously are.


Missing the point again. What I am saying is, that if you find one EU diplomat or even a politician that want to punish the UK for leaving, I know a couple, so don't lose any sleep over this, it doesn't mean that the EU as a whole wants to do it. That's where the racist remark comes in. Some Brexiteers are doing this for racist reasons, but I am not saying that Racism is the primary reason for Brexit. Just a comparison to illustrate my point, nothing more.


A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Please show us that link, we are evidence-based, and I am certainly not taking your word for it......


Remember that personal secretary line.


See remark above, totally different.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 1653
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:47 pm

Anyone can start the part 8, in the same spirit. If you recall part one was from dutchy :)


But as a matter of fact, I got an idea :twisted:
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12974
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:08 pm

seahawk wrote:
Johnson is well prepared and the EU will be scared. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... talks.html



Boris Johnson will threaten EU and US with high tariffs to speed up trade talks and pressure them to strike a deal



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Oh boy. Something with David and Gohliath, remember that is just a story before you start..................... :white:
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12974
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:10 pm

Olddog wrote:
Anyone can start the part 8, in the same spirit. If you recall part one was from dutchy :)


Did I? Oh dear. :D

Olddog wrote:
But as a matter of fact, I got an idea :twisted:


I, for one, think you are best suited to start part 8. We all know what the perfect moment is...... looking forward to it.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:16 pm

Brexiteers has expected Italy rightwing to. Take Italy out of EU;


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12339 ... rouble-spt
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:23 pm

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