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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:21 pm

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Looking forward to the UK becoming the Singapore of Europe.


What, full of immigrants?


(Guess what big political issue has been rumbling through Singaporean circles for the last few years...)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:02 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

These flights continue to support British jobs, paying british taxes, which in turn boost our economy.


These flights exist because of large immigration to the UK from India and Pakistan. Will such immigration continue ?


Do they? it’s nothing to do with the fact London is the most important Business hub on the planet.


Thus the UK = London? AFAIK he said that the UK is their most important market, not London.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:59 am

Arion640 wrote:
Looking forward to the UK becoming the Singapore of Europe.

So looking forward to the UK applying to become the 11th member of ASEAN, the organization of economic, political, security, military, educational, and sociocultural integration among southeast Asian nations. Of which Singapore was a founding nation fifty years ago.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:02 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Looking forward to the UK becoming the Singapore of Europe.

So looking forward to the UK applying to become the 11th member of ASEAN, the organization of economic, political, security, military, educational, and sociocultural integration among southeast Asian nations. Of which Singapore was a founding nation fifty years ago.


But you do realise that at least they don't have to listen to the ECJ and getting all those Europeans into their country? :smile:
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:02 pm

The UK is already the Singapore of Europe. That's why were #5 in the world.
The dullards wan to remove our favourable access to the regional markets (EU) which businesses use and want us for.

Brexit will make us the Laos of Europe
 
agill
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:59 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Brexit will make us the Laos of Europe


But... do they have blue passports?
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:43 pm

agill wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Brexit will make us the Laos of Europe


But... do they have blue passports?


Why yes, yes they do!

Say, are you deliberately winding us up here...? :cheeky:

https://www.passportindex.org/?country=la
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
kaitak
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:05 pm

Boris muddied the waters during a visit to NI yesterday:

https://news.sky.com/story/general-elec ... b-11857563

It is, of course, election time in the UK and politicians will be making lots of promises, but does this suggest that what Boris wants is a really just a big fudge. "Yes, in theory, there may be customs checks, but they'll be more honoured in the breach than in the observance."

How the EU will regard this remains to be seen. The audience is obviously Ulster Unionists, who want full regulatory alignment with the UK (even if the NI economy suffers as a result); Boris basically just wants to have his cake and eat it.

What can the EU actually do in this case? Ignore it, or point it out. In practice, of course, they should stand up and point it out, but will they actually? I tend to doubt it. If a fudge is what it takes to keep the Unionists happy, then so be it. It's like that old story of a person who asks an accountant, a philospher and a lawyer what 2+2 is. The accountant will say "4, what else could it be?"; the philospher will go on for hours about the nature of two-ness and something about Schrodinger's cat, while the lawyer will just put his arm around the person's shoulder and ask "what would you like it to be?" . Guess which role Boris is playing!
 
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:10 am

kaitak wrote:
What can the EU actually do in this case? Ignore it, or point it out.

The EU does not have to do anything, because they will not sign any deal that violates the 4 pillars, no matter what any UK politician tells / or promises their constituents. I say politicians because its not just Bojo who wants to have cake and eat it too.
Unfortunately, not many politicians are reminding the population what this initial deal is all about, it is just the break / separation or leaving the EU.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:03 pm

The impact of customs can be minimized by the EU and the UK having enough staffing to ensure fast border checks.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:00 pm

Yes but what will be the cost ? Why Netherlands and France should waste a lot of money for the UK benefit?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:32 am

Olddog wrote:
Yes but what will be the cost ? Why Netherlands and France should waste a lot of money for the UK benefit?

Rather than waste money trying to have a high staff count for clearing items, what the UK should do is have its industry move away from JIT production, since the majority of trade with the EU is one sided, such a change will not affect the EU. As the bulk of future UK trade will be outside of the EU - at least in the near future since it will take a decade or so to finalize a trade deal - it will be arriving mostly by boat from distances further away than the EU, so a delay in clearance will become the default position. Now whether the UK has the skills for proper inventory management is another story....
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:20 pm

par13del wrote:
Olddog wrote:
Yes but what will be the cost ? Why Netherlands and France should waste a lot of money for the UK benefit?

Rather than waste money trying to have a high staff count for clearing items, what the UK should do is have its industry move away from JIT production, since the majority of trade with the EU is one sided, such a change will not affect the EU. As the bulk of future UK trade will be outside of the EU - at least in the near future since it will take a decade or so to finalize a trade deal - it will be arriving mostly by boat from distances further away than the EU, so a delay in clearance will become the default position. Now whether the UK has the skills for proper inventory management is another story....


Inventory costs money, thus increasing your overall cost base. Moreover, longer transportation lines create more risk and/or insurance costs. Though these are not material, it does add to the overall cost base. If you operate with thin margins, the added cost may make your product uncompetitive or even uneconomical.
 
olle
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:30 pm

par13del wrote:
Olddog wrote:
Yes but what will be the cost ? Why Netherlands and France should waste a lot of money for the UK benefit?

Rather than waste money trying to have a high staff count for clearing items, what the UK should do is have its industry move away from JIT production, since the majority of trade with the EU is one sided, such a change will not affect the EU. As the bulk of future UK trade will be outside of the EU - at least in the near future since it will take a decade or so to finalize a trade deal - it will be arriving mostly by boat from distances further away than the EU, so a delay in clearance will become the default position. Now whether the UK has the skills for proper inventory management is another story....



This would be the death kiss ofUK manufactoring.

This is also the reason why UK vehicle industry probably will not survive one downturn where production capacity need to be adjusted.

In Europe we will seeproduction move from west Europe to the east and south. The question is what capacity willbe moved first. Any guess? Killing JIT in UK gives the answer.

The biggest question will be service sector and if UK becomes more competitive by singapore on the Thames model, or. If EU by rules slowly will kill it off.

Byany means it will not be the UK parliamant to give the call but rather Paris brussels and Berlin.

Leaving EUmeans no vote nor vetoat the table.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:14 pm

olle wrote:
par13del wrote:
Olddog wrote:
Yes but what will be the cost ? Why Netherlands and France should waste a lot of money for the UK benefit?

Rather than waste money trying to have a high staff count for clearing items, what the UK should do is have its industry move away from JIT production, since the majority of trade with the EU is one sided, such a change will not affect the EU. As the bulk of future UK trade will be outside of the EU - at least in the near future since it will take a decade or so to finalize a trade deal - it will be arriving mostly by boat from distances further away than the EU, so a delay in clearance will become the default position. Now whether the UK has the skills for proper inventory management is another story....



This would be the death kiss ofUK manufactoring.

If there is a Brexit the EU has already stated it will take years if not a decade to negotiate a trade deal, what exactly do you think that will do to UK industry?
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:21 pm

LJ wrote:
Inventory costs money, thus increasing your overall cost base. Moreover, longer transportation lines create more risk and/or insurance costs. Though these are not material, it does add to the overall cost base. If you operate with thin margins, the added cost may make your product uncompetitive or even uneconomical.

If there is a Brexit UK industry has to and will take a hit, they first have to negotiate trade deals then sort out the transportation lines. I am starting at where they will be if Brexit is done, not where they expect to be 5 to 10 years down the road, things will change if there is a Brexit.
There is a reason why part of the government Brexit plan is to stockpile essential items, its not whether there are consumers on either side willing to buy or sell.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:01 am

BoJo is looking like he's going to win the election with a clear majority.

If that happens, which seemed quite unlikely not that long ago, some think he will engineer a no deal Brexit.

Personally I don't think so, on the contrary, his initial promise for Brexit is already broken, now his main goal will be to stay in power at least 5 years and leave a mark. So I expect he will continue with his deal, any extension necessary, with the goal for Brexit to happen as smoothly as possible.

Thus JIT production could be saved.

Financial services, that's another story, but that can't be helped, there has to be a hit.

Now, how will he handle Scotland is my next wonder.
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ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:36 am

Aesma wrote:
BoJo is looking like he's going to win the election with a clear majority.

.

So was TM|, as was Remain. the UK polls have been woeful in the last decade.

The truth is, no one knows how this clusterfark is going to pan out.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:42 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50377396

This will harm both the Tories and Labour in some way. I say the Tories because they too will be targeting certain Labour seats that are marginals. Labour will also be affected no matter what some may say because a sizable number of their seats (including safe ones such as my own) voted to leave. I also think this is some sort of favour rather than pact, but it's fraught with risk, most notably on the presumption that seats that voted Tory last time will do the same.

I can't help but think Farage is positioning Brexit Party Limited in a way that they will hold the balance of power and the Tories will have choice but to do a deal with them if it's still a hung parliament with the Tories falling short of an outright majority.
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:29 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
I can't help but think Farage is positioning Brexit Party Limited in a way that they will hold the balance of power and the Tories will have choice but to do a deal with them if it's still a hung parliament with the Tories falling short of an outright majority.

Well, that worked out well for the DUP, they got millions for NI as a result of propping up the TM government, the SNP in Scotland have already given their cost for assisting to form a potential labour government under Corbyn, it's the beauty of a hung parliament, the small man finally get's to have a say and actually be heard not just be ignored.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:08 am

Failures to deal with JIT manufacturing with Brexit could destroy not only jobs in the UK, but hurt the jobs of 1000's in other countries and destroy companies. As I have previously cited as and example is with Jaguar Land Rover and BMW's MINI division, but based in the UK for assembly and using components from outside the UK. Loss of timely access to components could end production, kill JLR and the Mini.. Both brands have significant customer bases in the USA, the offices of both companies in my home state of New Jersey could be affected, 100's of dealers ruined, 1000's of jobs gone, customers ending up with worthless orphan vehicles.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:03 am

ltbewr wrote:
Failures to deal with JIT manufacturing with Brexit could destroy not only jobs in the UK, but hurt the jobs of 1000's in other countries and destroy companies. As I have previously cited as and example is with Jaguar Land Rover and BMW's MINI division, but based in the UK for assembly and using components from outside the UK. Loss of timely access to components could end production, kill JLR and the Mini.. Both brands have significant customer bases in the USA, the offices of both companies in my home state of New Jersey could be affected, 100's of dealers ruined, 1000's of jobs gone, customers ending up with worthless orphan vehicles.


Not doubting that it wouldn't hurt both sides, but you can be pretty certain BMW would salvage the brand by opening production lines in other countries. Heresy I know, but it's not like they are unfamiliar with producing cars in the US and branding them as "German".
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:37 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Not doubting that it wouldn't hurt both sides, but you can be pretty certain BMW would salvage the brand by opening production lines in other countries. Heresy I know, but it's not like they are unfamiliar with producing cars in the US and branding them as "German".

Why heresy, last I checked there is an Airbus factory in the deep south of the USA which is producing Airbus a/c not just preparing ones built in the EU and flown over for final delivery, and guess what, they are actually still called Airbus a/c, now if you meant to say Made in the EU or USA that's another story.
 
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:55 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Aesma wrote:
BoJo is looking like he's going to win the election with a clear majority.

.

So was TM|, as was Remain. the UK polls have been woeful in the last decade.

The truth is, no one knows how this clusterfark is going to pan out.


A corbyn government
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:29 am

Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla, just announced the first Tesla R&D facility outside of the US as well as an adjacent Tesla gigafactory will be build near Berlin, Germany.

Earlier, in 2016, Mr Musk has earmarked the UK as his prefered location for all of this, but yesterday he explicitly cited Brexit and the expected export issues to Europe's SM as the main reasons for reversing course.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/108 ... mes-brexit

Those are a few thousands of high paid, high skilled jobs not coming to Global Britain then... Well done!
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:19 pm

So they join the thousands of other jobs that have been leaving the UK since 2016, including those going to Ireland and Japanese automakers preparing to close down plants, let's not forget the financial service jobs already gone or in the works.
However, ensuring that No Deal Brexit is off the table, Border in the Irish Sea, second referendum, indicative votes, these are the things that the UK parliament is focused on, so.....let's see what the next election brings, so far no one has said anything they do - remain or leave - will bring those jobs back to the UK, that is the more important issue. The relationship with the EU has changed forever, no going back.
 
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Good for Germany, 10.000 jobs I hear. Same for the Netherlands, though, public bodies tried to get it to the Netherlands.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Should the UK, NI, and EU agree to a friendly border in the Irish Sea, but otherwise NI remaining part of the UK (and I say friendly as a permanent and creative border), NI would be in line for many of these factories and jobs. NI could use the boost to its economy, and that would be a plus for the UK.
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:12 pm

Why NI and not just going to Ireland instead?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
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par13del
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:48 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Should the UK, NI, and EU agree to a friendly border in the Irish Sea, but otherwise NI remaining part of the UK (and I say friendly as a permanent and creative border), NI would be in line for many of these factories and jobs. NI could use the boost to its economy, and that would be a plus for the UK.

The EU has to protect its members and the integrity of the group, NI would not be a member, why would the EU facilitate the transfer of jobs to NI when they can just as easily facilitate them going to RI?
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:58 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Not doubting that it wouldn't hurt both sides, but you can be pretty certain BMW would salvage the brand by opening production lines in other countries. Heresy I know, but it's not like they are unfamiliar with producing cars in the US and branding them as "German".


Indeed. Should Brexit result in an unfavourable production they'll probably move the Mini production (partially) to VDL Nedcar in Born (The Netherlands). They already produce some Mini variants and have spare capacity.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:14 pm

European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:31 am

Dutchy wrote:
European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.


We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:42 am

Dutchy wrote:
So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.

Interesting? No, not really. Crap? Yes.

A commissioner, who knows he isn't a commissioner in two months, cannot work as a commissioner. No EU27 country wants the EU Commission to include a commissioner who cannot work properly.

Article 258 was never written to include temporary member countries which are only member a few months at a time.

Lesson learned: Should Article 50 ever come to use again, then we should stick to its wording. Two years, then OUT, no extensions.

It is just too complicated and damaging to keep countries which are in internal chaos and cannot make decisions.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:09 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.

Interesting? No, not really. Crap? Yes.

A commissioner, who knows he isn't a commissioner in two months, cannot work as a commissioner. No EU27 country wants the EU Commission to include a commissioner who cannot work properly.

Article 258 was never written to include temporary member countries which are only member a few months at a time.

Lesson learned: Should Article 50 ever come to use again, then we should stick to its wording. Two years, then OUT, no extensions.

It is just too complicated and damaging to keep countries which are in internal chaos and cannot make decisions.



The problem with A50 is no one at the time thought it would ever be invoke, with the actual timeframe to make the process as difficult as possabile for the leaving nation.

I’m surprised that the EU is even contemplating using this rule as it works in leave campaigners favour:

Here look the EU wants to impose fines on the UK when we are in the middle of a Brexit induced general election in which the government is following the protocol of caretaker government, I doubt very much Juncker would have done something so silly in the midsts of a general election which would advantage a position that the EU is trying to avoid.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:02 am

A101 wrote:
Here look the EU wants to impose fines on the UK when we are in the middle of a Brexit induced general election in which the government is following the protocol of caretaker government, I doubt very much Juncker would have done something so silly in the midsts of a general election which would advantage a position that the EU is trying to avoid.


Fine? The EU wants the UK to comply with EU rules as long as they are a member. So the EU wants the UK to name a commissioner, otherwise, all rules issued by the commission might be invalided.

Why should the EU suffer - actually more than they already do - from indecision on the UK side? Again, with this, you insist to export your internal problems, first with Ireland and now this.

So what do you suggest the EU does in this situation? Nothing and just sit there until the UK decides what to do? The UK aint that important my friend.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:06 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.


We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.


It is an internal problem, you should have taken care of months ago. We are talking about appointing one person in a minor role in the EU, because you don't have your house on order, because you wanted the extension, not the EU. Johnson could have just appointed someone, just before he asked for the elections if this would seriously be a problem.

Again, don't export your internal problems. We are getting fed up with that attitude.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:49 am

Dutchy wrote:

Fine? The EU wants the UK to comply with EU rules as long as they are a member. So the EU wants the UK to name a commissioner, otherwise, all rules issued by the commission might be invalided.

Why should the EU suffer - actually more than they already do - from indecision on the UK side? Again, with this, you insist to export your internal problems, first with Ireland and now this.

So what do you suggest the EU does in this situation? Nothing and just sit there until the UK decides what to do? The UK aint that important my friend.



No indecision by government we are complying with caretaker government conventions, if the EU dose not like tough: fine us and we will use it to our advantage I’m happy with that.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:01 am

The UK is not the only EU country having just a caretaking government at the moment of it having to appoint a commissioner: my country for instance has a caretaking government too, yet it consulted parliament and appointed a commissioner without much problems.

More proof that what the UK needs is not Brexit, but a reform of the way it works internally: having no written constitution and parliamentary procedures not suitable to work in the 21st century will ultimately bring it to its knees…

Well, in a way it already is, it's just that it hasn't realised it yet!

From past experiences, we've learnt that a country implodes years before it actually does for real, when it's own people start to give up on it: the CCCP, the DDR... can we soon ad the UK to that list? Other than those deeply rooted in the system (the royals, the MPs and some nostalgic patriots), ordinary Brits only seem to care about their own personal survival and holding on to their position on the social lader, rather than on strengthening their nation's society: you can thank the decade long austerity from the Conservative and Unionist (sic) Party for that indifferent attitute.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:01 am

The UK is not the only EU country having just a caretaking government at the moment of it having to appoint a commissioner: my country for instance has a caretaking government too, yet it consulted parliament and appointed a commissioner without much problems.

More proof that what the UK needs is not Brexit, but a reform of the way it works internally: having no written constitution and parliamentary procedures not suitable to work in the 21st century will ultimately bring it to its knees…

Well, in a way it already is, it's just that it hasn't realised it yet!

From past experiences, we've learnt that a country implodes years before it actually does for real, when it's own people start to give up on it: the CCCP, the DDR... can we soon ad the UK to that list? Other than those deeply rooted in the system (the royals, the MPs and some nostalgic patriots), ordinary Brits only seem to care about their own personal survival and holding on to their position on the social lader, rather than on strengthening their nation's society: you can thank the decade long austerity from the Conservative and Unionist (sic) Party for that indifferent attitute.
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:32 am

sabenapilot wrote:
The UK is not the only EU country having just a caretaking government at the moment of it having to appoint a commissioner: my country for instance has a caretaking government too, yet it consulted parliament and appointed a commissioner without much problems.

More proof that what the UK needs is not Brexit, but a reform of the way it works internally: having no written constitution and parliamentary procedures not suitable to work in the 21st century will ultimately bring it to its knees…

Well, in a way it already is, it's just that it hasn't realised it yet!

From past experiences, we've learnt that a country implodes years before it actually does for real, when it's own people start to give up on it: the CCCP, the DDR... can we soon ad the UK to that list? Other than those deeply rooted in the system (the royals, the MPs and some nostalgic patriots), ordinary Brits only seem to care about their own personal survival and holding on to their position on the social lader, rather than on strengthening their nation's society: you can thank the decade long austerity from the Conservative and Unionist (sic) Party for that indifferent attitute.



That’s all well and good but is not the convention in the UK, Brexit or not or if you agree or not it’s the way things are done in the UK
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:19 am

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.


We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.


Would you draw the same excuse if NATO had to appoint a rotating command of an important mission and it was the time for a British candidate?
 
A101
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:35 am

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.


We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.


Would you draw the same excuse if NATO had to appoint a rotating command of an important mission and it was the time for a British candidate?


Yes,
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:39 am

A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:

We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.


Would you draw the same excuse if NATO had to appoint a rotating command of an important mission and it was the time for a British candidate?


Yes,


Maybe it's time for the UK to realise that world events don't just stop because of internal politics, then.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:07 am

JJJ wrote:
A101 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Would you draw the same excuse if NATO had to appoint a rotating command of an important mission and it was the time for a British candidate?


Yes,


Maybe it's time for the UK to realise that world events don't just stop because of internal politics, then.


That's because British politics and the conventions that govern it in the absence of a written constitution that can be amended over time are all still dating back to the old days of the Empire.

As EUCO President Tusk rightfully said: Brexit will mark the end the British Empire, because it will increasingly reveal for all to see the extend to which the UK's way of working, its interactions with the rest of the world as well as the image it has of itself are completely outdated and not in line with its current standing.
Its EU membership allowed the UK to keep punching far above its own hight all while it's own global relevance declined, but that is soon to come to an end.
The awakening will be rude, going by the widespread delusions in the minds of British politicians about what they think they can achieve on their own, despite none of them ever having had to do anything remotely similar in their entire career, nor in fact having had much success in achieving any other important things for their nation which they did have full control over, throughout.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:37 pm

A101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
European Commission launches infringement proceedings against the UK following its failure to name a candidate for EU Commissioner

So interesting, the UK doesn't want to name a commissioner and is thus not doing its duty-bound things.


We are in caretaker Government conventions and in that time it is accepted the the government wil not make important decisions that a in power government would like, the three main conventions that an incumbent government avoids are: “major policy decisions” that will commit an incoming government; “significant appointments”; or “major contracts or undertakings so it does not undermine the new elected government. The EU would be fully awere of these things when it agreed to the extension.


That doesn't excuse breaking laws and treaties now, does it...
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:39 pm

A101 wrote:
The problem with A50 is no one at the time thought it would ever be invoke, with the actual timeframe to make the process as difficult as possabile for the leaving nation.


I think the problem is that the authors assumed that anyone invoking the law would not be so stupid as to do so *BEFORE* having a clue what they planned to do!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:46 pm

A101 wrote:
it’s the way things are done in the UK


Utter rubbish. Violating international law because you just can't be arsed to send a civil servant somewhere? It's *NOT* the way things are done, because the UK *DID* actually sign all the accords involved.

Laws and treaties have repercussions, the UK - who I suspect simply forgot or didn't know this was going to happen (judging by the current government performance) - are showing once again how little they care about the rest of the world and their place in it.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:21 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
A101 wrote:
it’s the way things are done in the UK


Utter rubbish. Violating international law because you just can't be arsed to send a civil servant somewhere? It's *NOT* the way things are done, because the UK *DID* actually sign all the accords involved.

Laws and treaties have repercussions, the UK - who I suspect simply forgot or didn't know this was going to happen (judging by the current government performance) - are showing once again how little they care about the rest of the world and their place in it.


We all know A101 is talking utter rubbish. Of course, they could send someone if they wanted to, but the thing is, they don't want to, even in this small thing, they want to export their problems instead of taking care of those.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 7: The Frog who Aspired to Become as Big as the Ox

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:11 pm

A101 wrote:
Here look the EU wants to impose fines on the UK when we are in the middle of a Brexit induced general election in which the government is following the protocol of caretaker government, I doubt very much Juncker would have done something so silly in the midsts of a general election which would advantage a position that the EU is trying to avoid.


You do realize that the EU has to do this as it's a legal requirement for the EU to do so? Thus it's not silly, just ensuring that they've done their job legally.

Dutchy wrote:
Fine? The EU wants the UK to comply with EU rules as long as they are a member. So the EU wants the UK to name a commissioner, otherwise, all rules issued by the commission might be invalided.


Does the EU really want the UK to appoint a commissioner? The only reason why they make a fuss about this issue is because they want to prevent that it can have negative legal consequences if they don't do this. Or do you really expect that any UK commissioner will be accepted by the EU Parliament? I don't. BTW this is also a reason why this shouldn't be dragged on too long. These delays are hurting the EU from a legal point of view.

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