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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:08 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Here's a idea bro. Look up B-2 Visa.

It is interesting how the narrative on the right has shifted. It went from brown people get free stuff from the government to brown people don't have anything so they clog up our emergency rooms. From "we have to block everyone coming from the south because the immigration system is broken" and, at the same time, "so what if a few people overstay their student or work visas?"

The narrative on the right is clear: it is okay to break the law if you are from the right country.


I think you need to visit the nearest hospital to the border in a border city for some perspective.


To see what? People who have no health insurance because it is too damn expensive? People visiting who had an accident? The right keeps trying to push the narrative that only illegals are to blame. The reality is health care costs are to blame. How many people sitting in an emergency room right now in, say Yuma, are illegal? By right wing standards, just count the ones speaking Spanish.

Do chest pains wait until you are in your home country or near an in-network doctor? Do drunk drivers only mow down people who have insurance? My point is: stop painting with a broad brush. Just because someone speaks Spanish does not mean they are illegal. Just because someone is in the ER does not mean they are gaming the system.


People coming across the border to have a kid then go back, claim US benefits, then head back. Kid grows up, returns to the US (or crosses the border everyday to attend school), sets up camp, then brings the family over. Add visit the nearest school to the border for your list of things to do.

37% born to illegals:

https://cis.org/Report/Births-Legal-and ... igrants-US

Busy schools:

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/05/ ... om-mexico/
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N867DA
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:01 pm

We should send them back to their home countries to die because we're okay sending our fellow Americans home to die.
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seb146
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:31 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

I think you need to visit the nearest hospital to the border in a border city for some perspective.


To see what? People who have no health insurance because it is too damn expensive? People visiting who had an accident? The right keeps trying to push the narrative that only illegals are to blame. The reality is health care costs are to blame. How many people sitting in an emergency room right now in, say Yuma, are illegal? By right wing standards, just count the ones speaking Spanish.

Do chest pains wait until you are in your home country or near an in-network doctor? Do drunk drivers only mow down people who have insurance? My point is: stop painting with a broad brush. Just because someone speaks Spanish does not mean they are illegal. Just because someone is in the ER does not mean they are gaming the system.


People coming across the border to have a kid then go back, claim US benefits, then head back. Kid grows up, returns to the US (or crosses the border everyday to attend school), sets up camp, then brings the family over. Add visit the nearest school to the border for your list of things to do.

37% born to illegals:

https://cis.org/Report/Births-Legal-and ... igrants-US

Busy schools:

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/05/ ... om-mexico/


According to the right wing site you posted, illegals have 7.5% of all births. This, I am assuming, also includes birth tourism that is sponsored by the occupant of the White House? As far as our education system, our public and woefully underfunded system is better than what they have in Mexico. That still does not tell us how many illegals are "blocking up" emergency rooms at any given time. You have simply posted skewed talking points.

Again, those children coming to the United States come here on a government granted visa. They do not simply walk across the border and into an emergency room when they are suffering cancer. That's not how it works.
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:39 am

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

To see what? People who have no health insurance because it is too damn expensive? People visiting who had an accident? The right keeps trying to push the narrative that only illegals are to blame. The reality is health care costs are to blame. How many people sitting in an emergency room right now in, say Yuma, are illegal? By right wing standards, just count the ones speaking Spanish.

Do chest pains wait until you are in your home country or near an in-network doctor? Do drunk drivers only mow down people who have insurance? My point is: stop painting with a broad brush. Just because someone speaks Spanish does not mean they are illegal. Just because someone is in the ER does not mean they are gaming the system.


People coming across the border to have a kid then go back, claim US benefits, then head back. Kid grows up, returns to the US (or crosses the border everyday to attend school), sets up camp, then brings the family over. Add visit the nearest school to the border for your list of things to do.

37% born to illegals:

https://cis.org/Report/Births-Legal-and ... igrants-US

Busy schools:

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/05/ ... om-mexico/


According to the right wing site you posted, illegals have 7.5% of all births. This, I am assuming, also includes birth tourism that is sponsored by the occupant of the White House? As far as our education system, our public and woefully underfunded system is better than what they have in Mexico. That still does not tell us how many illegals are "blocking up" emergency rooms at any given time. You have simply posted skewed talking points.

Again, those children coming to the United States come here on a government granted visa. They do not simply walk across the border and into an emergency room when they are suffering cancer. That's not how it works.


“Hi! I just walked 1100 mi, have no money, and am carrying my ill child and worldly possessions. Do you know the way to the Cleveland Clinic?”

These people actually believe that happens.
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seb146
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:03 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

People coming across the border to have a kid then go back, claim US benefits, then head back. Kid grows up, returns to the US (or crosses the border everyday to attend school), sets up camp, then brings the family over. Add visit the nearest school to the border for your list of things to do.

37% born to illegals:

https://cis.org/Report/Births-Legal-and ... igrants-US

Busy schools:

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/05/ ... om-mexico/


According to the right wing site you posted, illegals have 7.5% of all births. This, I am assuming, also includes birth tourism that is sponsored by the occupant of the White House? As far as our education system, our public and woefully underfunded system is better than what they have in Mexico. That still does not tell us how many illegals are "blocking up" emergency rooms at any given time. You have simply posted skewed talking points.

Again, those children coming to the United States come here on a government granted visa. They do not simply walk across the border and into an emergency room when they are suffering cancer. That's not how it works.


“Hi! I just walked 1100 mi, have no money, and am carrying my ill child and worldly possessions. Do you know the way to the Cleveland Clinic?”

These people actually believe that happens.


Republicans do not want a national health care for all system that we can all afford. Guess what? If we have a national health care system that we all can afford, we can tell who is trying to "gum up the emergency rooms" around the country.
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OA412
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:36 pm

BravoOne wrote:
You are absolutely wrong, but I don't intend tp debate this issue you, much less one of the mods as I might say something disrespectful.
Come to Las Vegas and check for yourself. End of discussion.

No, not end of discussion. If, BIG IF, this is actually occurring in Las Vegas, that doesn’t mean it’s a nationwide epidemic. Do you have a source showing citizens aren’t receiving adequate healthcare in ERs because “illegals” are clogging up the system?

DL717 wrote:
Go to one next to the southern border then take a number behind your future citizens.


Source???
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BravoOne
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:51 pm

Local physicians in the Las Vegas area hospitals. It's not a mystery or some secret and I did not say US citizens are not receiving adequate care but rather we are all paying for it in spades and yes the wait times excessive

My daughter is a ER physican in Anchorage and she sees it all the time in the ER rooms. It is a well known problem in most big US cities. She is sympathetic with the patients but the system is broken and needs fixing.

Again, you remain wrong about how the system works. Who pays for it, along with the complete public ignorance regarding this issue.

Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:37 am

BravoOne wrote:
Local physicians in the Las Vegas area hospitals. It's not a mystery or some secret and I did not say US citizens are not receiving adequate care but rather we are all paying for it in spades and yes the wait times excessive

My daughter is a ER physican in Anchorage and she sees it all the time in the ER rooms. It is a well known problem in most big US cities. She is sympathetic with the patients but the system is broken and needs fixing.

Again, you remain wrong about how the system works. Who pays for it, along with the complete public ignorance regarding this issue.

Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.



ER's are overpriced cash cows. The doctors are inferior and in general your life is not in the hands of the best and brightest. You need to pray an attending with common sense is present if you have any life threatening condition that is not common. Had it happen to myself and friends. Was told to leave ER, only to have another doctor call us back after reviewing the charts.

Illegal citizens do not use the ER at a higher rate than US citizens. Part of the issue is the fact that Pediatricians tell parents to go to the ER for any issue after hours that seems to be more than a sniffle. This isn't a bad practice per se, but the costs of ER's make it seem ridiculous.

https://khn.org/news/study-illegal-immi ... alth-care/
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alfa164
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:51 am

BravoOne wrote:
Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.


And just because you are "BravoOne" does not mean you control the facts, either. As a matter of fact, when asked for actual data and figures.... you have bowed out of the conversation.

That might lead an unbiased observer to believe you don't have any data or statistics...

:roll:
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seb146
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:12 am

BravoOne wrote:
Local physicians in the Las Vegas area hospitals. It's not a mystery or some secret and I did not say US citizens are not receiving adequate care but rather we are all paying for it in spades and yes the wait times excessive

My daughter is a ER physican in Anchorage and she sees it all the time in the ER rooms. It is a well known problem in most big US cities. She is sympathetic with the patients but the system is broken and needs fixing.

Again, you remain wrong about how the system works. Who pays for it, along with the complete public ignorance regarding this issue.

Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.


So let's see the actual facts of emergency rooms outside the one in Las Vegas and the one in Anchorage that have you upset.

Keep in mind that many Republicans including the leader of the party of "all lives matter" and "every child is sacred" are wanting to see children die.
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mad99
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:04 pm

The government here in Spain did the opposite. “undocumented” immigrants get health care from day one. I think in the long term its cheaper as people can get care/treatment before it becomes a bigger problem.
 
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:35 pm

dmg626 wrote:
They can go back to their home countries and receive treatment.


Exactly. nothing more to read into it.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:38 pm

seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

According to the right wing site you posted, illegals have 7.5% of all births. This, I am assuming, also includes birth tourism that is sponsored by the occupant of the White House? As far as our education system, our public and woefully underfunded system is better than what they have in Mexico. That still does not tell us how many illegals are "blocking up" emergency rooms at any given time. You have simply posted skewed talking points.

Again, those children coming to the United States come here on a government granted visa. They do not simply walk across the border and into an emergency room when they are suffering cancer. That's not how it works.


“Hi! I just walked 1100 mi, have no money, and am carrying my ill child and worldly possessions. Do you know the way to the Cleveland Clinic?”

These people actually believe that happens.


Republicans do not want a national health care for all system that we can all afford. Guess what? If we have a national health care system that we all can afford, we can tell who is trying to "gum up the emergency rooms" around the country.


Let me know when you want to pay 10% tax on groceries, 15% on prepared foods (Cereal, bread, canned goods) and 25% tax on everything else (like that next car). Because that’s what your pipe dream costs. Sounds really affordable, er... not really, same cost it just hits you another way. Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.
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2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:53 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Our healthcare system is just fine. Health insurance is the problem. Time to deregulate it like we should have done 10 years ago instead of this bastardized government mandate.


Health insurance did not force manufacturers of insulin and EpiPens to raise their prices hundreds or thousands of dollars. Deregulation will just make prices worse for us who really want and need health care. Just like tort reform will do nothing for us consumers, deregulation will do nothing for us. Only for those at the top.

BTW, we were told in the 2016 debates and rallies that the current occupant of the White House would give us better and cheaper health care. Where is it? When are we getting it?


Deregulation brings cost down. Only someone on the left would think otherwise.


Deregulation brings quality and accountability down too. When it comes to healthcare, I'd like to make sure its done correctly, not cheaply.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:56 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

“Hi! I just walked 1100 mi, have no money, and am carrying my ill child and worldly possessions. Do you know the way to the Cleveland Clinic?”

These people actually believe that happens.


Republicans do not want a national health care for all system that we can all afford. Guess what? If we have a national health care system that we all can afford, we can tell who is trying to "gum up the emergency rooms" around the country.


Let me know when you want to pay 10% tax on groceries, 15% on prepared foods (Cereal, bread, canned goods) and 25% tax on everything else (like that next car). Because that’s what your pipe dream costs. Sounds really affordable, er... not really, same cost it just hits you another way. Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.


In fact you can get free healthcare for everyone in the US for just a 1% tax on soda and an extra 50 cents a month in property taxes!

(see we can both make up nonsense numbers....)
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:58 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Health insurance did not force manufacturers of insulin and EpiPens to raise their prices hundreds or thousands of dollars. Deregulation will just make prices worse for us who really want and need health care. Just like tort reform will do nothing for us consumers, deregulation will do nothing for us. Only for those at the top.

BTW, we were told in the 2016 debates and rallies that the current occupant of the White House would give us better and cheaper health care. Where is it? When are we getting it?


Deregulation brings cost down. Only someone on the left would think otherwise.


Deregulation brings quality and accountability down too. When it comes to healthcare, I'd like to make sure its done correctly, not cheaply.


It’s health insurance, not healthcare and it won’t come cheap, but it will be cheaper without the overlapping need for insurance companies to establish different companies in every state. Governments sets minimum standards and people choose what fits their needs best.
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:59 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Republicans do not want a national health care for all system that we can all afford. Guess what? If we have a national health care system that we all can afford, we can tell who is trying to "gum up the emergency rooms" around the country.


Let me know when you want to pay 10% tax on groceries, 15% on prepared foods (Cereal, bread, canned goods) and 25% tax on everything else (like that next car). Because that’s what your pipe dream costs. Sounds really affordable, er... not really, same cost it just hits you another way. Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.


In fact you can get free healthcare for everyone in the US for just a 1% tax on soda and an extra 50 cents a month in property taxes!

(see we can both make up nonsense numbers....)


Those aren’t made up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxatio ... cise_taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

That the “Northern Europe” taxation the left clings to.
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2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:01 pm

DL717 wrote:
Governments sets minimum standards


soooo.... regulation?
 
2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:05 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Let me know when you want to pay 10% tax on groceries, 15% on prepared foods (Cereal, bread, canned goods) and 25% tax on everything else (like that next car). Because that’s what your pipe dream costs. Sounds really affordable, er... not really, same cost it just hits you another way. Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.


In fact you can get free healthcare for everyone in the US for just a 1% tax on soda and an extra 50 cents a month in property taxes!

(see we can both make up nonsense numbers....)


Those aren’t made up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxatio ... cise_taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

That the “Northern Europe” taxation the left clings to.


A couple of things here. First of all, both of these countries have exceptional healthcare outcomes and consistently rank among the happiest countries in the world. You don't see many Fins or Swedes bemoaning these figures.

Secondly, We are talking about the costs to the taxpayer for healthcare, and you came back with overall tax structures for other countries. How much of these taxes goes to support healthcare in these countries? How much are people spending on healthcare in these countries overall (between taxes and health costs) compared to people here in the US?
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:05 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Governments sets minimum standards


soooo.... regulation?


Does government regulate safety of the airlines?
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2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:11 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Governments sets minimum standards


soooo.... regulation?


Does government regulate safety of the airlines?


Indeed they do. But I would be careful to equate air travel and healthcare. I don't believe every American should be granted the right to accessible and affordable air travel. I don't know of anyone that unexpectedly needed to fly to the coast last minute and end up in crushing debt for the rest of their lives because of it. Nobody relies on regular flights to the Myrtle Beach to stay alive...
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:11 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

In fact you can get free healthcare for everyone in the US for just a 1% tax on soda and an extra 50 cents a month in property taxes!

(see we can both make up nonsense numbers....)


Those aren’t made up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxatio ... cise_taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

That the “Northern Europe” taxation the left clings to.


A couple of things here. First of all, both of these countries have exceptional healthcare outcomes and consistently rank among the happiest countries in the world. You don't see many Fins or Swedes bemoaning these figures.

Secondly, We are talking about the costs to the taxpayer for healthcare, and you came back with overall tax structures for other countries. How much of these taxes goes to support healthcare in these countries? How much are people spending on healthcare in these countries overall (between taxes and health costs) compared to people here in the US?


What the hell do you think pays for that health coverage? The Easter Bunny? It’s the taxes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway

Again, this the the tax environment the left has embraced to lay for all these goodies. So get your debit card out.
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:17 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

soooo.... regulation?


Does government regulate safety of the airlines?


Indeed they do. But I would be careful to equate air travel and healthcare. I don't believe every American should be granted the right to accessible and affordable air travel. I don't know of anyone that unexpectedly needed to fly to the coast last minute and end up in crushing debt for the rest of their lives because of it. Nobody relies on regular flights to the Myrtle Beach to stay alive...


Again, tax rates sufficient to cover such an event would be needed as I demonstrated. A smart person would either buy insurance, recognizing that insurance has a high cost, or set aside money for such an incident. Not doing so their problem.
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2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:24 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Does government regulate safety of the airlines?


Indeed they do. But I would be careful to equate air travel and healthcare. I don't believe every American should be granted the right to accessible and affordable air travel. I don't know of anyone that unexpectedly needed to fly to the coast last minute and end up in crushing debt for the rest of their lives because of it. Nobody relies on regular flights to the Myrtle Beach to stay alive...


Again, tax rates sufficient to cover such an event would be needed as I demonstrated. A smart person would either buy insurance, recognizing that insurance has a high cost, or set aside money for such an incident. Not doing so their problem.



AKA, the old GOP argument, 'If you're poor, its your fault, don't expect any help from us!'
Last edited by 2122M on Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:26 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Those aren’t made up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxatio ... cise_taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

That the “Northern Europe” taxation the left clings to.


A couple of things here. First of all, both of these countries have exceptional healthcare outcomes and consistently rank among the happiest countries in the world. You don't see many Fins or Swedes bemoaning these figures.

Secondly, We are talking about the costs to the taxpayer for healthcare, and you came back with overall tax structures for other countries. How much of these taxes goes to support healthcare in these countries? How much are people spending on healthcare in these countries overall (between taxes and health costs) compared to people here in the US?


What the hell do you think pays for that health coverage? The Easter Bunny? It’s the taxes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway

Again, this the the tax environment the left has embraced to lay for all these goodies. So get your debit card out.


Those taxes are paying for a whole lot more than just healthcare. And again, people there are very happy and very healthy. Sounds alright to me!
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:44 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

A couple of things here. First of all, both of these countries have exceptional healthcare outcomes and consistently rank among the happiest countries in the world. You don't see many Fins or Swedes bemoaning these figures.

Secondly, We are talking about the costs to the taxpayer for healthcare, and you came back with overall tax structures for other countries. How much of these taxes goes to support healthcare in these countries? How much are people spending on healthcare in these countries overall (between taxes and health costs) compared to people here in the US?


What the hell do you think pays for that health coverage? The Easter Bunny? It’s the taxes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway

Again, this the the tax environment the left has embraced to lay for all these goodies. So get your debit card out.


Those taxes are paying for a whole lot more than just healthcare. And again, people there are very happy and very healthy. Sounds alright to me!


I suppose the upside is that everyone pays. No freeloaders, but we know how that will go over. Someone will create a loophole for the freeloaders.

By the way, most of it is going to healthcare because that is the largest line item. As long as there are no freeloaders, then go for it. Everyone pays. Period. Minimum income tax of 25%, for everyone. No returns, no zero tax income level. 25% across the board. People need to understand that their “free stuff” has a cost. Cap income tax at about 45% and that should cover it.
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2122M
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Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:00 pm

DL717 wrote:
I suppose the upside is that everyone pays. No freeloaders, but we know how that will go over. Someone will create a loophole for the freeloaders.


Are you inventing a problem that doesn't yet exist in order to argue against a policy you don't like?

To be honest, it took me awhile to be sold on Medicare-for-all, but I'm in. Private health insurance companies are beholden to shareholders, and shareholders require growth and profits. That means the insurance company must take in more than it pays out and it must increase that gap every year in order to keep investors form jumping ship. There are only 2 ways to do that: increase premiums, (my cost goes up) or decrease payouts (my quality of care goes down).

A public option does not have the requirement for profits or the requirement for growth. They only have to take it what they have to pay out. Not to mention, they don't have to spend money on marketing and all the other administrative jobs that come with being a competitive company in the private sector.

Not to mention, hospital costs go down. They no longer have to build in extra costs to cover the losses they incur from treating uninsured people.

Speaking of uninsured people, they won't exist! That means more preventative care (read: inexpensive care) for poor people that would have had to wait for emergency care (read: very, very expensive care) if they had no insurance.

So yes, our tax burden goes up, but no more money out of the paycheck going to a private health insurer. And the cost for care will go way down. And people will be healthier due to accessible preventative care, which means greater productivity in the workplace. Also, we eliminate medical debt, which means billions of dollars can go back into the economy instead. It will save hundreds of thousands of people from entering bankruptcy due to medical debt.

Also, we no longer have to punish poor people for being poor by withholding quality healthcare.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3518
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Local physicians in the Las Vegas area hospitals. It's not a mystery or some secret and I did not say US citizens are not receiving adequate care but rather we are all paying for it in spades and yes the wait times excessive

My daughter is a ER physican in Anchorage and she sees it all the time in the ER rooms. It is a well known problem in most big US cities. She is sympathetic with the patients but the system is broken and needs fixing.

Again, you remain wrong about how the system works. Who pays for it, along with the complete public ignorance regarding this issue.

Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.



ER's are overpriced cash cows. The doctors are inferior and in general your life is not in the hands of the best and brightest. You need to pray an attending with common sense is present if you have any life threatening condition that is not common. Had it happen to myself and friends. Was told to leave ER, only to have another doctor call us back after reviewing the charts.

Illegal citizens do not use the ER at a higher rate than US citizens. Part of the issue is the fact that Pediatricians tell parents to go to the ER for any issue after hours that seems to be more than a sniffle. This isn't a bad practice per se, but the costs of ER's make it seem ridiculous.

https://khn.org/news/study-illegal-immi ... alth-care/


They are overpriced because someone has to pay for the services that others cannot pay for. Basic math which I suspect is not your strong suit.

As for inferior doctors, what a bunch of horse shit. In my duaghers case, six years as a US Army Dr. with three tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. 2 years with Doctors Without Boarders, one in the Congo, and another in Haiti certainly qualifies her as someone that is less than inferior. You would be damn lucky to have her trying to save your sorry life should the occasion arise.

End of discussion,
 
alfa164
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:00 pm

DL717 wrote:
Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.


.... and we all know how terrible it is to be dimmed to death.

:roll:

I think the real problem is our education system, leaving behind dogmatists who can't think... or spell...


BravoOne wrote:
They are overpriced because someone has to pay for the services that others cannot pay for. Basic math which I suspect is not your strong suit.
As for inferior doctors, what a bunch of horse shit. In my duaghers case,...,


I see spelling is not your "strong suit", either... but you do seem to be a real expert on horse (manure) - and personal insults, in place of facts...

;)
Last edited by alfa164 on Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9016
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:07 pm

BravoOne wrote:
casinterest wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Local physicians in the Las Vegas area hospitals. It's not a mystery or some secret and I did not say US citizens are not receiving adequate care but rather we are all paying for it in spades and yes the wait times excessive

My daughter is a ER physican in Anchorage and she sees it all the time in the ER rooms. It is a well known problem in most big US cities. She is sympathetic with the patients but the system is broken and needs fixing.

Again, you remain wrong about how the system works. Who pays for it, along with the complete public ignorance regarding this issue.

Don't let your title go to your head. Just because you are a mod, does not mean you control the facts.



ER's are overpriced cash cows. The doctors are inferior and in general your life is not in the hands of the best and brightest. You need to pray an attending with common sense is present if you have any life threatening condition that is not common. Had it happen to myself and friends. Was told to leave ER, only to have another doctor call us back after reviewing the charts.

Illegal citizens do not use the ER at a higher rate than US citizens. Part of the issue is the fact that Pediatricians tell parents to go to the ER for any issue after hours that seems to be more than a sniffle. This isn't a bad practice per se, but the costs of ER's make it seem ridiculous.

https://khn.org/news/study-illegal-immi ... alth-care/


They are overpriced because someone has to pay for the services that others cannot pay for. Basic math which I suspect is not your strong suit.

As for inferior doctors, what a bunch of horse shit. In my duaghers case, six years as a US Army Dr. with three tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. 2 years with Doctors Without Boarders, one in the Congo, and another in Haiti certainly qualifies her as someone that is less than inferior. You would be damn lucky to have her trying to save your sorry life should the occasion arise.

End of discussion,


Basic math is my strong suit. It is how I know Republicans can never figure out taxes or healthcare or their own finances.

ER doctors are some of the worst. I had a family member almost die because the ER Doctor that they had gas instead of a much more serious issue. We got that one for free. It is not people that can't pay. It is the inferiority of the doctor's in the ER. Also had another friend that was not diagnosed with a brain hemorage and died. The ER got sued on that one as well.

Your daughter might be good, but she is one of the few, and even she could probably tell you how piss poor ER's are run.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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seb146
Posts: 20469
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:06 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Let me know when you want to pay 10% tax on groceries, 15% on prepared foods (Cereal, bread, canned goods) and 25% tax on everything else (like that next car). Because that’s what your pipe dream costs. Sounds really affordable, er... not really, same cost it just hits you another way. Every single day as you get nickel and dimmed to death.


In fact you can get free healthcare for everyone in the US for just a 1% tax on soda and an extra 50 cents a month in property taxes!

(see we can both make up nonsense numbers....)


Those aren’t made up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxatio ... cise_taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Sweden

That the “Northern Europe” taxation the left clings to.


Sweden also has a higher minimum wage. And, because they have a national health care system, they don't have to worry about how they will pay their medical bills. It also looks like they don't have to worry about how they will save for retirement, as that is one of the "taxes" they pay. What a terrible system! Health care and retirement are both paid for all while being paid a living wage! Disgusting!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:20 pm

The original topic all the right is gnashing their collective teeth over are people from other countries using legal means to enter the United States. That is what the right is upset about, from the OP. People following the law.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 1969
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:19 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
" On August 7th, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) quietly eliminated a medical deferred action program that allowed severely ill undocumented immigrants and their families to remain in the United States to receive potentially lifesaving treatment. The decision to axe the policy was not announced publicly. Instead, families with pending applications were notified through letters from immigration officials informing them they have 33 days to leave the country or risk facing deportation. USCIS confirmed this week that it was ending the program."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... re-878160/

Would you expect anything else from the most Christian Administration ever? Praise Jesus!


Deport them where?? To the Medical Paradises of Cuba or Venezuela?? Should... I hear they offer free health care there. Sound like a good fit.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 17501
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:20 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
" On August 7th, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) quietly eliminated a medical deferred action program that allowed severely ill undocumented immigrants and their families to remain in the United States to receive potentially lifesaving treatment. The decision to axe the policy was not announced publicly. Instead, families with pending applications were notified through letters from immigration officials informing them they have 33 days to leave the country or risk facing deportation. USCIS confirmed this week that it was ending the program."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... re-878160/

Would you expect anything else from the most Christian Administration ever? Praise Jesus!


Deport them where?? To the Medical Paradises of Cuba or Venezuela?? Should... I hear they offer free health care there. Sound like a good fit.

Cuban life expectancy is the same as the US...on a tenth of the cost.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
bgm
Posts: 2136
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:26 am

BravoOne wrote:
seb146 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Lets see. A 4 hour visit to the ER. I EKG, 3 lab tests and never once in a doctors office. No ambulances required. Total bill $14,000+ Our insurance paid for it along with Medicare. Actually the American taxpayer paid these exorbitant rates so they could recapture all the money that the illegal's could not pay. Good thing it was not serious as the bill could have easily gone six figures. I don't care where they come from but we need some comprehensive immigration laws to put some order to the process.

By the way, while I said LAS, this actually happened in Henderson, which remains outside of the mainstream tourist destinations.

My daughter is an ER Dr, in Anchorage and not much different there either. You get seriousy injured, they fly you down to SEA.


You have forgotten the legal Americans who can not afford health insurance and can not pay an ER bill. That is wonderful you can afford a Cadillac plan and have all your medical expenses paid. However, for those of us in the real world, we can not afford much medical coverage.

Let's also look at what corporations charge for a bandage and cotton swab. Look at how much they decided to charge the insurance companies. You honestly believe the only reason medical costs are so high is illegals using emergency rooms. You are not taking into account how much corporations charge for things, how we have to pay huge prices for ambulance rides, follow up care, referrals.

Not only that, but those people who speak Spanish waiting in the ER, some of them actually are legal American citizens who, as I said before, can not afford health care.


Yea right! Your not legal if you can't speak English. I'm trying to imgine where you got your education on civics and citizenship. Having a hard time at the moment?


You’re*
Imagine*
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GDB
Posts: 13244
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:30 am

Not just children, even a US Marine veteran. (But remember, the Trump Admin is (again) draft dodger central).
All you dupes who cheer him on, unless you have millions in donations, they don't even register you exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... eportation
 
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seb146
Posts: 20469
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Administration Now Wants to Deport Children With Cancer

Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:31 pm

With funds being diverted to the stupid vanity wall from the military, where are the cries of "if you can't get behind the troops, feel free to get in front of them" and such?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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