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WIederling
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:49 pm

Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
....... and everyone is hypocritical. It isn't.


No. it is a select group arguing on hysterics. "Alternate Facts" and techniques from that toolbox.

In other words, you can't show us were the Polish gas chambers and gulags were similar to Nazi and Soviet ones.

PS: Angles, not Angels...

Grammar N.

When they were here they were still Angels. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln_%28Halbinsel%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#Se ... ed_pogroms
look at the time frame 1918 .. 20
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Revelation
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:00 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
No. it is a select group arguing on hysterics. "Alternate Facts" and techniques from that toolbox.

In other words, you can't show us were the Polish gas chambers and gulags were similar to Nazi and Soviet ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom#Se ... ed_pogroms
look at the time frame 1918 .. 20

Right, because "a frenzy instigated by the crowd's libelous belief that some Jews had made sausage out of Christian children" and various other localized mob actions are the same as State sponsored enterprises such as The Final Solution and the Great Terror.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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SQ22
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:27 pm

May I remind you to keep on topic, thanks.
 
olle
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:01 pm

What is easy to forget special in uk and USA is that the biggest battles in Europe happend in Russia, Eastern Europe. A whole generation was more or less killed both in Russis but also other countries.

Eastern Europe with its now new found nationalism after 50 years of occupation. Where wlll eastern Europe and Russia be in one or two generation?
 
johns624
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:43 pm

I've read that the main reason for the pact was that the USSR wasn't ready to fight Germany yet, since they were still recovering from the purge of the army's top leadership in the 1930s by Stalin.
 
Spar
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:33 pm

johns624 wrote:
I've read that the main reason for the pact was that the USSR wasn't ready to fight Germany yet, since they were still recovering from the purge of the army's top leadership in the 1930s by Stalin.

"Weren't ready to fight", while that's true, it is also true that Stalin hoped to stay out of any war Hitler had with Britain and France. He willingly became Hitler's partner in the rape of Poland and by extension all of eastern Europe. He became an active participant in Germany's plan, as opposed to Chamberlain's failure to act in 1938. And it can be pointed out that Russia also failed to act in 1938.

Russia then, now and always, has been in a simmering state of war with Europe. Russia has always tried to improve its position by undermining others.
 
tu204
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:17 am

Dutchy wrote:
GDB wrote:
Only when Germany was defeated did he claim credit for winning, even over his generals.


yes, with massive military support from the west and . at the loss of many civilians.

The Russian rhetoric can still be heard in Ukraine, claiming that it is a NAZI regime in Kiev etc.

Russian role in WWII was a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde tale at best. Russia still occupies Königsberg and part of Japan.


Wow. You seriously want to bring up the status of Kaliningrad (which isn't disputed even by Germany) and the Kuril islands?

Sad...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:24 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
GDB wrote:
Only when Germany was defeated did he claim credit for winning, even over his generals.


yes, with massive military support from the west and . at the loss of many civilians.

The Russian rhetoric can still be heard in Ukraine, claiming that it is a NAZI regime in Kiev etc.

Russian role in WWII was a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde tale at best. Russia still occupies Königsberg and part of Japan.


Wow. You seriously want to bring up the status of Kaliningrad (which isn't disputed even by Germany) and the Kuril islands?

Sad...


Wow, how using one word can dismiss your "argumentation".
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:57 am

Spar wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I've read that the main reason for the pact was that the USSR wasn't ready to fight Germany yet, since they were still recovering from the purge of the army's top leadership in the 1930s by Stalin.

"Weren't ready to fight", while that's true, it is also true that Stalin hoped to stay out of any war Hitler had with Britain and France. He willingly became Hitler's partner in the rape of Poland and by extension all of eastern Europe. He became an active participant in Germany's plan, as opposed to Chamberlain's failure to act in 1938. And it can be pointed out that Russia also failed to act in 1938.

Russia then, now and always, has been in a simmering state of war with Europe. Russia has always tried to improve its position by undermining others.


I regularly do wonder how minds like yours are formed into the twisted shape they appear to be in.

Germany got a tentative offer in 1990 to have East Prussia returned.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... reussen%2F
For various reasons the offer was ignored by Chancellor Kohl at the time.
( one being that gaining acceptance for reunification was difficult enough without territorial expansion.)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:18 am

WIederling wrote:
Spar wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I've read that the main reason for the pact was that the USSR wasn't ready to fight Germany yet, since they were still recovering from the purge of the army's top leadership in the 1930s by Stalin.

"Weren't ready to fight", while that's true, it is also true that Stalin hoped to stay out of any war Hitler had with Britain and France. He willingly became Hitler's partner in the rape of Poland and by extension all of eastern Europe. He became an active participant in Germany's plan, as opposed to Chamberlain's failure to act in 1938. And it can be pointed out that Russia also failed to act in 1938.

Russia then, now and always, has been in a simmering state of war with Europe. Russia has always tried to improve its position by undermining others.


I regularly do wonder how minds like yours are formed into the twisted shape they appear to be in.

Germany got a tentative offer in 1990 to have East Prussia returned.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... reussen%2F
For various reasons the offer was ignored by Chancellor Kohl at the time.
( one being that gaining acceptance for reunification was difficult enough without territorial expansion.)


So? This proofs nothing. The 1990's for Russia were a time of change, obviously. You can't - I mean a reasonoble person can't, you can obviously - deny that Russia has been aggresive towards other countries since WWII and that the exicution of the molotow ribbentrop agreement was the first aggresive dead of WWII, thus Russia started of WWII. Was Russia the primary force in WWII, no of course not, nobody claims it to be, but Russia was aligned with NAZI Germany in the beginning of WWII that can't be denied, now can it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
WIederling
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:33 am

Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Spar wrote:
"Weren't ready to fight", while that's true, it is also true that Stalin hoped to stay out of any war Hitler had with Britain and France. He willingly became Hitler's partner in the rape of Poland and by extension all of eastern Europe. He became an active participant in Germany's plan, as opposed to Chamberlain's failure to act in 1938. And it can be pointed out that Russia also failed to act in 1938.

Russia then, now and always, has been in a simmering state of war with Europe. Russia has always tried to improve its position by undermining others.


I regularly do wonder how minds like yours are formed into the twisted shape they appear to be in.

Germany got a tentative offer in 1990 to have East Prussia returned.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... reussen%2F
For various reasons the offer was ignored by Chancellor Kohl at the time.
( one being that gaining acceptance for reunification was difficult enough without territorial expansion.)


So? This proofs nothing. The 1990's for Russia were a time of change, obviously. You can't - I mean a reasonoble person can't, you can obviously - deny that Russia has been aggresive towards other countries since WWII and that the exicution of the molotow ribbentrop agreement was the first aggresive dead of WWII, thus Russia started of WWII. Was Russia the primary force in WWII, no of course not, nobody claims it to be, but Russia was aligned with NAZI Germany in the beginning of WWII that can't be denied, now can it.


Dogma ( as in Soviets/Russia is invariably aggressive ) does not make a valid argument.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Dutchy
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:36 am

WIederling wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
WIederling wrote:

I regularly do wonder how minds like yours are formed into the twisted shape they appear to be in.

Germany got a tentative offer in 1990 to have East Prussia returned.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... reussen%2F
For various reasons the offer was ignored by Chancellor Kohl at the time.
( one being that gaining acceptance for reunification was difficult enough without territorial expansion.)


So? This proofs nothing. The 1990's for Russia were a time of change, obviously. You can't - I mean a reasonoble person can't, you can obviously - deny that Russia has been aggresive towards other countries since WWII and that the exicution of the molotow ribbentrop agreement was the first aggresive dead of WWII, thus Russia started of WWII. Was Russia the primary force in WWII, no of course not, nobody claims it to be, but Russia was aligned with NAZI Germany in the beginning of WWII that can't be denied, now can it.


Dogma ( as in Soviets/Russia is invariably aggressive ) does not make a valid argument.


It isn't an argument, it is a fact. Russia invaded those countries at the beginning of WWII, nobody can deny that. If it shames Russians or Russian sympasiasers on this forum, so be it, not my problem.

You are entitled to your own opinion, not to your own facts.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
olle
Topic Author
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:23 am

johns624 wrote:
I've read that the main reason for the pact was that the USSR wasn't ready to fight Germany yet, since they were still recovering from the purge of the army's top leadership in the 1930s by Stalin.



And that included invasion of Finland and Baltic states?
 
olle
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:30 am

If soviet invasion of poland in sept 1939 how do Russia describe the attack on a neutral Finland no 1939

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

200 000 russian soldiers died, and the threat of german war increased when they say a small nation holding off the soviet forces.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:52 am

WIederling wrote:
Dogma ( as in Soviets/Russia is invariably aggressive ) does not make a valid argument.

Tell that to the Ukranians, et al.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
WIederling
Posts: 9309
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: 80 years since wwll and molotow ribbentrop agreement

Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Dogma ( as in Soviets/Russia is invariably aggressive ) does not make a valid argument.

Tell that to the Ukranians, et al.


I'd let them talk to the Georgians and what those think of tie eating former president Mikheil Saakashvili's transfer to Ukraine.
Murphy is an optimist

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