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seb146
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:21 pm

extender wrote:
Get over the crap with the NRA. The NRA doesn't go about killing anyone. Name one mas shooter that was an NRA member. You're not going to find it.


Every time anyone tries to do anything to lessen the number of dead from mass shootings, NRA and their base come out screaming and crying that "we can't do that because Second Amendment!" They are enablers. NRA was against bump stock restrictions, they were against assault weapons ban, they were against Brady Bill..... They hand up those mass shooters on a silver platter.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:24 pm

extender wrote:
Get over the crap with the NRA. The NRA doesn't go about killing anyone. Name one mas shooter that was an NRA member. You're not going to find it.


I’m pretty sure, no wait, I’m 100% sure no one accused the NRA of pulling the trigger. The point made was that the NRA pushes hard against legislation that may help keep the gun problem under control.

Maybe that was not clear to you, so I thought I would clarify.
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:24 pm

extender wrote:
Get over the crap with the NRA. The NRA doesn't go about killing anyone. Name one mas shooter that was an NRA member. You're not going to find it.

You don't get it do you? It is not about "mass shooters". It is about sensible legislation and controls on the sale and possession of firearms.
Name a mass shooter you could have stopped? Having no foreknowledge, no preparation, with them having the ability to plan and position themselves for maximum advantage.

Do you have hunters in your family?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:29 pm

There is sensible legislation already.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:30 pm

This crap is incredibly tiresome - suburban women are going to throttle em next year. I am seeing mostly mothers light up comments on all shooting related articles lately. Responses against measures are mostly from men.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:37 pm

extender wrote:
There is sensible legislation already.


And it can not be enforce because NRA let's their lawyers do the talking. The Gilroy shooter went to Nevada to get his weapons. In Chicago, they can simply go to rural Illinois or go to Indiana. There are laws on the books but, thanks to NRA, we can not enforce them. It might violate the last four words of the Second Amendment.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:39 pm

extender wrote:
There is sensible legislation already.

So you agree with legislation requiring background checks?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:08 pm

There is legislation requiring background checks. But that would not have prevented the latest shooter who was not supposed to have them. So that in this case, was ineffective.
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:11 pm

extender wrote:
There is legislation requiring background checks. But that would not have prevented the latest shooter who was not supposed to have them. So that in this case, was ineffective.

So you agree that amending the law to require all sales or transfers to have background checks would be useful?

Even if it doesn't stop every illegal use, it would at least help and would have helped in this situation (and others in fact)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
N1611B
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
extender wrote:
There is sensible legislation already.


And it can not be enforce because NRA let's their lawyers do the talking. The Gilroy shooter went to Nevada to get his weapons. In Chicago, they can simply go to rural Illinois or go to Indiana. There are laws on the books but, thanks to NRA, we can not enforce them. It might violate the last four words of the Second Amendment.


They can't go to rural Illinois or Indiana. That would be a felony.
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:13 pm

Again, how useful was a background check to the last shooting?
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:14 pm

extender wrote:
Again, how useful was a background check to the last shooting?

Again, could it have helped in this situation?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:15 pm

N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:
extender wrote:
There is sensible legislation already.


And it can not be enforce because NRA let's their lawyers do the talking. The Gilroy shooter went to Nevada to get his weapons. In Chicago, they can simply go to rural Illinois or go to Indiana. There are laws on the books but, thanks to NRA, we can not enforce them. It might violate the last four words of the Second Amendment.


They can't go to rural Illinois or Indiana. That would be a felony.

But I thought you said criminals don't follow laws? So they can.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:17 pm

extender wrote:
Again, how useful was a background check to the last shooting?


From what I understand, he didn't get the weapon form the place where he failed the background check. That likely means he went the private sale or gun show route where a background check is unnecessary. So you mandate background checks in private sales using a gun registration as a means of enforcing that. Again, just read the comments earlier in this thread. Your questions have already been answered.
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:21 pm

No to gun registration. No to private sales. A gun is property, to be sold as desired. Slippery slope remember?
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:25 pm

extender wrote:
No to gun registration. No to private sales. A gun is property, to be sold as desired. Slippery slope remember?

Not a slippery slope. Not at all. Even with all the gun legislation we are not is any way at risk of losing our 2nd amendment rights.

Not a slippery slope.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:25 pm

extender wrote:
No to gun registration. No to private sales. A gun is property, to be sold as desired. Slippery slope remember?


So is a car, but I have to transfer that title when I sell it someone, don't I?

then you say: 'But cars are not protected by the second amendment!'

Then I say: I don't care. A gun registry is not prohibited by the 2nd and does not in any way infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens. There are literally only positives from this if you are a law abiding citizen in favor of responsible gun ownership.'
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:28 pm

Simple answer, no.

I fill out a 4473 when I buy one, there's your registration.
 
N1611B
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:28 pm

Tugger wrote:
N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And it can not be enforce because NRA let's their lawyers do the talking. The Gilroy shooter went to Nevada to get his weapons. In Chicago, they can simply go to rural Illinois or go to Indiana. There are laws on the books but, thanks to NRA, we can not enforce them. It might violate the last four words of the Second Amendment.


They can't go to rural Illinois or Indiana. That would be a felony.

But I thought you said criminals don't follow laws? So they can.

Tugg


They can do so, which is illegal. They can also choose to smoke crack and run naked through a school. That is also illegal. Not sure what your point is.
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:32 pm

extender wrote:
Simple answer, no.

I fill out a 4473 when I buy one, there's your registration.


Do you transfer that to the person that buys the gun from you via private sale? Does that hold you liable in the event that weapon is used in a crime?
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:54 pm

N1611B wrote:
Tugger wrote:
N1611B wrote:

They can't go to rural Illinois or Indiana. That would be a felony.

But I thought you said criminals don't follow laws? So they can.

Tugg


They can do so, which is illegal. They can also choose to smoke crack and run naked through a school. That is also illegal. Not sure what your point is.

You said they could not be purchased as it was illegal.

As others have said laws don't work since criminals don't follow them, so we shouldn't have them.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:58 pm

2122M wrote:
extender wrote:
Simple answer, no.

I fill out a 4473 when I buy one, there's your registration.


Do you transfer that to the person that buys the gun from you via private sale? Does that hold you liable in the event that weapon is used in a crime?


I do not transfer, that is a function of a dealer. If I choose to sell a gun, I only sell to people with a valid CCW. That means they have gone through a background check.
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:03 pm

extender wrote:
2122M wrote:
extender wrote:
Simple answer, no.

I fill out a 4473 when I buy one, there's your registration.


Do you transfer that to the person that buys the gun from you via private sale? Does that hold you liable in the event that weapon is used in a crime?


I do not transfer, that is a function of a dealer. If I choose to sell a gun, I only sell to people with a valid CCW. That means they have gone through a background check.


That's your choice. but by no means a requirement. And to be clear, I'm not accusing YOU of trafficking weapons. I'm simply pointing out a loophole that can currently be exploited but could easily be closed.
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:06 pm

It isn't. All of the people in my circles do the same. Stop with the loophole BS. It isn't a loophole.
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:09 pm

extender wrote:
It isn't. All of the people in my circles do the same. Stop with the loophole BS. It isn't a loophole.

So you are saying all people do the same as you and your "circle"?

BTW, you never answered if you family is a hunting family?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:16 pm

extender wrote:
It isn't. All of the people in my circles do the same. Stop with the loophole BS. It isn't a loophole.


Do you hang out with people that traffic guns to criminals? Are they in your circle?
 
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Tugger
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:37 pm

extender wrote:
Stop with the loophole BS. It isn't a loophole.

Also, if it isn't a "loophole" and you already do this, then why is there any concern at all about requiring a simple background check? It won't in any way realistically affect the ability of a person to keep and bear a firearm.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
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seb146
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:31 pm

extender wrote:
No to gun registration. No to private sales. A gun is property, to be sold as desired. Slippery slope remember?


Why enforce any laws, if you are going with "slipper slope" argument?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
StarAC17
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:42 pm

seb146 wrote:
extender wrote:
Get over the crap with the NRA. The NRA doesn't go about killing anyone. Name one mas shooter that was an NRA member. You're not going to find it.


Every time anyone tries to do anything to lessen the number of dead from mass shootings, NRA and their base come out screaming and crying that "we can't do that because Second Amendment!" They are enablers. NRA was against bump stock restrictions, they were against assault weapons ban, they were against Brady Bill..... They hand up those mass shooters on a silver platter.


The NRA does this for one reason, money!!

The NRA's members largely agree that the background checks make sense. However when the NRA fear-mongers about government coming to take your guns more people go out and buy them and that means more $$$ in the pockets of gun manufacturers.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
Concierge
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:54 pm

N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:
extender wrote:
There is sensible legislation already.


And it can not be enforce because NRA let's their lawyers do the talking. The Gilroy shooter went to Nevada to get his weapons. In Chicago, they can simply go to rural Illinois or go to Indiana. There are laws on the books but, thanks to NRA, we can not enforce them. It might violate the last four words of the Second Amendment.


They can't go to rural Illinois or Indiana. That would be a felony.


You don't read what anyone else writes. The lax laws in Indiana and Illinois other than Chicago encourage straw man purchases for profit. And yup, making something a felony stops anyone who would commit a crime.

Plus, they're killing people with their cars!!!!!!
 
Concierge
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:03 am

N1611B wrote:
Concierge wrote:
N1611B wrote:

A handgun permit is issued by the county that you live in. If you live in Chicago and can't get a permit there, you can't just go to a gun store across the border and buy a handgun. They are legally prohibited from selling to you.


You just keep repeating this.

Sixty percent of guns seized by Chicago police came from outside Illinois. Twenty percent from Indiana.

Nope, you can't just drive across the state line and provide your real ID and purchase a hand gun.

You can have an Indiana resident buy for you - a straw man purchase. You probably don't have to go that far, the profit motive will get the gun to a Chicago buyer. You should let this argument go - guns are coming from Indiana to Chicago.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states ... urder-rate


Yes, they are coming illegally. Enforcing existing laws would stop that. No new laws needed. If I buy a gun tomorrow and then sell it to a criminal in Chicago, that is a serious felony.


So, a gun is legally purchased in Indiana and the owner concludes a private sale to some guy in Chicago. He seems like an OK guy to me. That's a felony?

And they're killing people with their cars!!!!!!!
 
MSPNWA
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:15 am

2122M wrote:
From what I understand, he didn't get the weapon form the place where he failed the background check. That likely means he went the private sale or gun show route where a background check is unnecessary. So you mandate background checks in private sales using a gun registration as a means of enforcing that. Again, just read the comments earlier in this thread. Your questions have already been answered.


Do you honestly think someone wanting to do harm will call off the plan once the law says they have to get a background check for a gun transfer? You think evil people are that kind to society?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:28 am

MSPNWA wrote:
2122M wrote:
From what I understand, he didn't get the weapon form the place where he failed the background check. That likely means he went the private sale or gun show route where a background check is unnecessary. So you mandate background checks in private sales using a gun registration as a means of enforcing that. Again, just read the comments earlier in this thread. Your questions have already been answered.


Do you honestly think someone wanting to do harm will call off the plan once the law says they have to get a background check for a gun transfer? You think evil people are that kind to society?


Limiting access points to purchasing high performance firearms and magazines is the key - still don’t get it? Making it harder to obtain can only have good results - NOBODY is arguing mass casualty shootings will be completely prevented....just like nobody argues gun control is the end all be all to gang violence. Wise up.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:38 am

MSPNWA wrote:
2122M wrote:
From what I understand, he didn't get the weapon form the place where he failed the background check. That likely means he went the private sale or gun show route where a background check is unnecessary. So you mandate background checks in private sales using a gun registration as a means of enforcing that. Again, just read the comments earlier in this thread. Your questions have already been answered.


Do you honestly think someone wanting to do harm will call off the plan once the law says they have to get a background check for a gun transfer? You think evil people are that kind to society?


You are not caught up to this conversation and have no clue about the ideas I've presented above. Please re-read this entire thread before jumping in with little to no information because I'm tired of explaining it over and over again.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:51 am

MSPNWA wrote:
2122M wrote:
From what I understand, he didn't get the weapon form the place where he failed the background check. That likely means he went the private sale or gun show route where a background check is unnecessary. So you mandate background checks in private sales using a gun registration as a means of enforcing that. Again, just read the comments earlier in this thread. Your questions have already been answered.


Do you honestly think someone wanting to do harm will call off the plan once the law says they have to get a background check for a gun transfer? You think evil people are that kind to society?

Works in just about every other advanced nation so...yeah. But then dumbasses like Dan Crenshaw couldn't "lend his friends his guns" :roll:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:24 am

texdravid wrote:
No one on these boards is more conservative as me, and I have been here 15 years. However, let's be real.
America is too violent, immature, and too broken of a society to have this kind of free access to guns. True, people will start using knives, hammers and other objects as weapons, but nothing kills as thoroughly, quickly, and in huge numbers as guns.

Others have violently disagreed with me, but the USA is in the midst of a slow motion civil war. The liberals have failed their inner cities and its basically an urban jungle similar to Somalia, with apologies to Somalia. The unhappy and violent American black/hispanic communities have failed themselves in an orgy of violence, self-hatred, and grievance.

The conservatives have failed their rural areas, and poor whites have failed themselves in an orgy of drug abuse (meth), ignorance, poor education, and obesity.

The US is a sewer of NEARLY EVERYONE being an abject loser. You have a tiny minority within a greater society of 330+ million following the rules, taking care of themselves and their families, educating themselves, striving to work hard, on time, and every day, and keeping their noses clean of violence and substance abuse.

Everyone else is a train wreck. Both sides. Both whites and minorities. Sometimes stereotypes are true. You go to a city like my hometown like the DFW area. You have my fellow Indians kicking ass and becoming successes and working harder than you can possibly imagine. Within 3 years, these guys go from a small one bedroom apartment to a big mansion with multiple cars and etc. Why? Because they do the things that Americans of all stripes don't do.

When you have 75% at least being losers in America, how the hell can these 75% be trusted with any weapons more than a Nerf gun or BB gun?
Their loser lives mean nothing to them or their friends or family members. This leads to uncontrolled violence, whether its in white Odessa or black Chicago or Hispanic Miami.

It's time, America, well past time, to admit that America cannot handle their 2nd amendment rights and make guns hard as hell to get and keep.


After you've demolished the 2nd Amendment, I suppose the 1st Amendment will be next... to alleviate all of the wounds of people speaking their minds and their convictions in public, and on the internet. No Thanks. We just need more mental institutions. Lots of them.
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:28 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
texdravid wrote:
No one on these boards is more conservative as me, and I have been here 15 years. However, let's be real.
America is too violent, immature, and too broken of a society to have this kind of free access to guns. True, people will start using knives, hammers and other objects as weapons, but nothing kills as thoroughly, quickly, and in huge numbers as guns.

Others have violently disagreed with me, but the USA is in the midst of a slow motion civil war. The liberals have failed their inner cities and its basically an urban jungle similar to Somalia, with apologies to Somalia. The unhappy and violent American black/hispanic communities have failed themselves in an orgy of violence, self-hatred, and grievance.

The conservatives have failed their rural areas, and poor whites have failed themselves in an orgy of drug abuse (meth), ignorance, poor education, and obesity.

The US is a sewer of NEARLY EVERYONE being an abject loser. You have a tiny minority within a greater society of 330+ million following the rules, taking care of themselves and their families, educating themselves, striving to work hard, on time, and every day, and keeping their noses clean of violence and substance abuse.

Everyone else is a train wreck. Both sides. Both whites and minorities. Sometimes stereotypes are true. You go to a city like my hometown like the DFW area. You have my fellow Indians kicking ass and becoming successes and working harder than you can possibly imagine. Within 3 years, these guys go from a small one bedroom apartment to a big mansion with multiple cars and etc. Why? Because they do the things that Americans of all stripes don't do.

When you have 75% at least being losers in America, how the hell can these 75% be trusted with any weapons more than a Nerf gun or BB gun?
Their loser lives mean nothing to them or their friends or family members. This leads to uncontrolled violence, whether its in white Odessa or black Chicago or Hispanic Miami.

It's time, America, well past time, to admit that America cannot handle their 2nd amendment rights and make guns hard as hell to get and keep.


After you've demolished the 2nd Amendment, I suppose the 1st Amendment will be next... to alleviate all of the wounds of people speaking their minds and their convictions in public, and on the internet. No Thanks. We just need more mental institutions. Lots of them.


What a swell idea! And when people don’t want to be subjected to mental exams to make a determination for internment in institutions, then what? To save the 1st and 2nd amendments you want to throw out the 5th? Weee doggie!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MSPNWA
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:50 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Limiting access points to purchasing high performance firearms and magazines is the key - still don’t get it? Making it harder to obtain can only have good results - NOBODY is arguing mass casualty shootings will be completely prevented....just like nobody argues gun control is the end all be all to gang violence. Wise up.


What you don't get is that the proposal makes no sense. Limiting access points has proven to be a virtual non-factor in mass shootings as they either obtain their guns legally or ignore laws anyway. The proposal is guaranteed to negatively affect millions of law-abiding citizens (if it holds in court), and it will not guarantee a statistically significant negative effect on law-breakers. That's the definition of a bad law. The only possible hope under a universal background check law is that an evil person will stop their plan to kill people because they can't legally acquire a weapon before they go on a murder spree. How absurd. Some hope that is. You're better off praying.

Good results for whom? For those that want to pass down firearms to the next generation? Those that want to lend a gun to their hunting buddy? Those that want to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms? No, there is no good results under the proposal.

2122M wrote:
You are not caught up to this conversation and have no clue about the ideas I've presented above. Please re-read this entire thread before jumping in with little to no information because I'm tired of explaining it over and over again.


Do you have a problem when I butt in to point out illogical, Constitutionally-challengeable ideas?

To borrow your words earlier, I don't care.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:00 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Limiting access points to purchasing high performance firearms and magazines is the key - still don’t get it? Making it harder to obtain can only have good results - NOBODY is arguing mass casualty shootings will be completely prevented....just like nobody argues gun control is the end all be all to gang violence. Wise up.


What you don't get is that the proposal makes no sense. Limiting access points has proven to be a virtual non-factor in mass shootings as they either obtain their guns legally or ignore laws anyway. The proposal is guaranteed to negatively affect millions of law-abiding citizens (if it holds in court), and it will not guarantee a statistically significant negative effect on law-breakers. That's the definition of a bad law. The only possible hope under a universal background check law is that an evil person will stop their plan to kill people because they can't legally acquire a weapon before they go on a murder spree. How absurd. Some hope that is. You're better off praying.

Good results for whom? For those that want to pass down firearms to the next generation? Those that want to lend a gun to their hunting buddy? Those that want to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms? No, there is no good results under the proposal.

2122M wrote:
You are not caught up to this conversation and have no clue about the ideas I've presented above. Please re-read this entire thread before jumping in with little to no information because I'm tired of explaining it over and over again.


Do you have a problem when I butt in to point out illogical, Constitutionally-challengeable ideas?

To borrow your words earlier, I don't care.


I refer you to texdravid’s masterful post - there really isn’t anything else to add.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
alfa164
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:58 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Limiting access points to purchasing high performance firearms and magazines is the key - still don’t get it? Making it harder to obtain can only have good results - NOBODY is arguing mass casualty shootings will be completely prevented....just like nobody argues gun control is the end all be all to gang violence. Wise up.

What you don't get is that the proposal makes no sense. Limiting access points has proven to be a virtual non-factor in mass shootings as they either obtain their guns legally or ignore laws anyway. The proposal is guaranteed to negatively affect millions of law-abiding citizens (if it holds in court), and it will not guarantee a statistically significant negative effect on law-breakers. That's the definition of a bad law. The only possible hope under a universal background check law is that an evil person will stop their plan to kill people because they can't legally acquire a weapon before they go on a murder spree. How absurd. Some hope that is. You're better off praying.
Good results for whom? For those that want to pass down firearms to the next generation? Those that want to lend a gun to their hunting buddy? Those that want to exercise their Constitutional right to bear arms? No, there is no good results under the proposal.
2122M wrote:
You are not caught up to this conversation and have no clue about the ideas I've presented above. Please re-read this entire thread before jumping in with little to no information because I'm tired of explaining it over and over again.

Do you have a problem when I butt in to point out illogical, Constitutionally-challengeable ideas?
To borrow your words earlier, I don't care.


Obviously, you don't care - about the facts, especially. Just to remind you, the USA did have a ban on assault weapons - for ten years. It was not renewed at the end of that time because of pressure from (first guess?) the NRA. And - despite your claims otherwise - it was held Constitutional.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/75065617 ... -it-expire

The gist of the story is that, while no one can prove it reduced crime overall, it did reduce the number of people killed in mass shooting. Considering what has happened in our recent history, that would be a good thing.

If only the ammosexuals could get a grip on the facts...
:roll:
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:17 am

Aaron747 wrote:
I refer you to texdravid’s masterful post - there really isn’t anything else to add.


Masterful?? I think not. More like giving in to hysterics.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:41 am

extender wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
I refer you to texdravid’s masterful post - there really isn’t anything else to add.


Masterful?? I think not. More like giving in to hysterics.


Nope - quite true. Growing up I saw a lot of what he related, my Asian/Indian friends were talked about by my other peers behind their backs ‘they’re ruining our test scores’, ‘we can’t compete with that’ blah blah - when they were actually just entitled and lazy. A lot of my peers were smart and could have applied themselves more but they chose to get sloshed every weekend and chase skirt. ‘The other kids’ are not to blame for that...and this was in well to do Silicon Valley. The choice to be lowbrow can only be far worse in other places, as texdravid indicated.

Is that a baseline for a society deserving of major responsibilities like owning powerful tools that can cause instant death? Perhaps that’s up for debate.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:48 am

Powerful tools, like cars, boats and planes? You and the rest of the gang asking for loophole closures, irresponsible gun owners, gun registration are failing to address the root cause. Until you address the lack of personal responsibility, and lack of respect for authority, all your feel good proposals aren't going to do anything meaningful. You want, you demand, deem the NRA a terrorist organization... See this is the type of crap that boggles the mind, and why any dialogue with the rabid liberals will never yield anything worthy.
 
JJJ
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:56 am

So, to recap.

- Reasonable gun control stops at whatever is on the books now.
- Laws are useless because they aren't enforced, but allowing tools and circumstances for them to be enforced is off the question because the current laws are useless so why bother?

Seriously don't you realise this is a circular argument?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:57 am

extender wrote:
Powerful tools, like cars, boats and planes? You and the rest of the gang asking for loophole closures, irresponsible gun owners, gun registration are failing to address the root cause. Until you address the lack of personal responsibility, and lack of respect for authority, all your feel good proposals aren't going to do anything meaningful. You want, you demand, deem the NRA a terrorist organization... See this is the type of crap that boggles the mind, and why any dialogue with the rabid liberals will never yield anything worthy.


As pointed out repeatedly in this thread - those require proper licensure and privileges can be removed for misuse and/or questionable conduct. Not possible generally with firearms due to 2nd A. and NEA lobbying where reasonable limitations are called for.

And texdravid was alluding to responsibility issues well - white people are just as guilty of blaming everything other than themselves as other ‘identity politic’ groups. I related further examples in my last post - where my peers ‘blamed’ others for studying harder than they were willing to. As upper middle class white kids, they felt the world was their oyster without hard work being in the equation. In a poorer white community, that sometimes manifests as hate for the ‘other’ perceived to be doing better. Are you intellectually honest enough to concede that is a part of the problem of late?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:32 am

extender wrote:
Until you address the lack of personal responsibility, and lack of respect for authority,


Ok, present some ideas. How do you address your perceived "lack of personal responsibility and lack of respect for authority"?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:31 pm

extender wrote:
Until you address the lack of personal responsibility, and lack of respect for authority, all your feel good proposals aren't going to do anything meaningful.

Yawn. More boomer 'back in my day kids respected authority/get off my lawn' nonsense. We must be the only advanced country on the planet with those [imagined] problems. :roll:

Aaron747 wrote:
I refer you to texdravid’s masterful post - there really isn’t anything else to add.

There's a first for everything...
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
extender
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:33 pm

They sure as hell aren't imagined. They are real. So yawn, if you must, but your "get rid of guns," ain't gonna happen.
 
2122M
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:37 pm

extender wrote:
They sure as hell aren't imagined. They are real. So yawn, if you must, but your "get rid of guns," ain't gonna happen.


Ideas? If you think there is a problem with gun violence, then I am dying to hear you proposed solutions (ones that don't involve shredding the constitution like your first idea).

Like it or not, the left is the only side that seems willing to address this problem. The right seems to be fine with the status quo. Apparently this ridiculously high level of gun violence is more acceptable than a gun registry and background checks on private gun sales (neither of which even come close to violating the second amendment).
 
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Aaron747
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Re: At least 5 dead in West Texas shooting after traffic stop

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:00 pm

extender wrote:
They sure as hell aren't imagined. They are real. So yawn, if you must, but your "get rid of guns," ain't gonna happen.


As expected - completely unable to own up to or concede anything. So much for vaunted personal responsibility!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
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