N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Show me the statistics of home gun round assault by unknown assailants vs innocent deaths by mass murders.


In a typical year more than 260,000 Americans become the victim of a violent crime during a home invasion.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt


It is also interesting to note that some of those home invasions were by people known to the victims in some way. Maybe a friend, maybe a family member, maybe "s/he works in our yard every week".


Indeed. Shows to be careful in who you trust.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:41 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

People in danger do call for help. And that help can take anywhere from 5 to 45 minutes to get to them. Your other statement doesn't make much sense. Real life isn't like the movies....the stay at home mom who is having her home broken into isn't going to be able to dive across the floor and nail a headshot against a moving assailant 15 feet away. And the person who is shot in the chest or the belly or the arm isn't going to conveniently and immediately die after being hit one time. Thankfully, our very real rights give us the right to own as much ammunition as we please.


Show me the statistics of home gun round assault by unknown assailants vs innocent deaths by mass murders.


In a typical year more than 260,000 Americans become the victim of a violent crime during a home invasion.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt


And most of those are simple assault. and in over 65% of the cases they know the attacker. Where are the headshots from unknown middle of the night attackers?
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:42 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

You're right. Our soldiers and police officers likely don't need any bullets at all. They are supposed to be professionals, right? All they need are throwing knives. That way, if they get shot at, then can throw their knives at the bullets and knock them out of the air before they can hit their target.


Ok you convinced me. You are still in kindergarten right? Back to potty training.


Says the person who believes that every layperson is an expert marksman and that every single gunshot victim dies immediately after being shot one time.


I never said that. You did. Don't worry, memory cognizance comes in 1st grade.
Last edited by casinterest on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:44 pm

extender wrote:
This is why the debate goes to crap. People with the common sense of a gnat, pontificate and tell you all you need, even though they have no knowledge of the subject matter.


No knowledge of what subject? You are the one that started a discussion about faith in government when you have no clue how it works.
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N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Show me the statistics of home gun round assault by unknown assailants vs innocent deaths by mass murders.


In a typical year more than 260,000 Americans become the victim of a violent crime during a home invasion.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt


And most of those are simple assault. and in over 65% of the cases they know the attacker. Where are the headshots from unknown middle of the night attackers?


So you find it acceptable that people are assaulted, raped, shot, stabbed, etc. in their own homes as long as they don't die? Yikes.
 
N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm

casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Ok you convinced me. You are still in kindergarten right? Back to potty training.


Says the person who believes that every layperson is an expert marksman and that every single gunshot victim dies immediately after being shot one time.


I never said that. You did. Don't worry, memory cognizance comes in 1st grade.


Oh,so you don't believe that? That's even worse. You know that 5 bullets are not enough to adequately defend yourself in the vast majority of cases, and yet you advocate for this restriction anyways. Seems as if you want the bad guys to be able to do as they wish?
 
extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:58 pm

Ah Tugg, I took a different oath:

I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So you can save some time.
 
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:59 pm

N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N1611B wrote:

In a typical year more than 260,000 Americans become the victim of a violent crime during a home invasion.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt


It is also interesting to note that some of those home invasions were by people known to the victims in some way. Maybe a friend, maybe a family member, maybe "s/he works in our yard every week".


Indeed. Shows to be careful in who you trust.


And guns or fewer taxes will not stop those attacks. "I have known this person for a while" or "s/he is related to me and no one has said anything bad about them" are not red flags.

I had to include "fewer taxes" because OP decided guns and taxes are tied together somehow......
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:04 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

In a typical year more than 260,000 Americans become the victim of a violent crime during a home invasion.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt


And most of those are simple assault. and in over 65% of the cases they know the attacker. Where are the headshots from unknown middle of the night attackers?


So you find it acceptable that people are assaulted, raped, shot, stabbed, etc. in their own homes as long as they don't die? Yikes.


And you don't know how they fought back, or if their guns were accessible. You keep making outrageous claims that can't be supported.
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N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It is also interesting to note that some of those home invasions were by people known to the victims in some way. Maybe a friend, maybe a family member, maybe "s/he works in our yard every week".


Indeed. Shows to be careful in who you trust.


And guns or fewer taxes will not stop those attacks. "I have known this person for a while" or "s/he is related to me and no one has said anything bad about them" are not red flags.

I had to include "fewer taxes" because OP decided guns and taxes are tied together somehow......


Guns may not stop the attacks, but they may give you a better chance of making it through one. Take a relatively common occurrence...a woman who takes out a restraining order on her abusive husband. Legally, that should solve her problem, but to her husband that restraining order is just a piece of paper. If the husband tries to break into the woman's home one day to do her harm, she can (and should) call the police, but they aren't going to arrive immediately. If the woman has a firearm and knows how to use it, however, she can defend herself until the authorities arrive, until her assailant flees, or until her assailant is taken out.
 
N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

And most of those are simple assault. and in over 65% of the cases they know the attacker. Where are the headshots from unknown middle of the night attackers?


So you find it acceptable that people are assaulted, raped, shot, stabbed, etc. in their own homes as long as they don't die? Yikes.


And you don't know how they fought back, or if their guns were accessible. You keep making outrageous claims that can't be supported.


The only outrageous claim here is your claim that 5 bullets are sufficient for an untrained person to defend themselves from a criminal who aims to harm them.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:08 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

So you find it acceptable that people are assaulted, raped, shot, stabbed, etc. in their own homes as long as they don't die? Yikes.


And you don't know how they fought back, or if their guns were accessible. You keep making outrageous claims that can't be supported.


The only outrageous claim here is your claim that 5 bullets are sufficient for an untrained person to defend themselves from a criminal who aims to harm them.


So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?


About 60. Not sure if I got him.
 
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:16 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?


About 60. Not sure if I got him.


And you were a private citizen in a home invasion, or were you destroying your house?
Last edited by casinterest on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tugger
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm

extender wrote:
Ah Tugg, I took a different oath:

I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So you can save some time.

OK great, then why do you act like you don't understand what I am saying?

We all participate in enforcing the laws of the nation.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:19 pm

extender wrote:
I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;


And yet you were happy to shed the 4th amendment of that very same constitution in a previous thread....
 
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:42 pm

N1611B wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N1611B wrote:

Indeed. Shows to be careful in who you trust.


And guns or fewer taxes will not stop those attacks. "I have known this person for a while" or "s/he is related to me and no one has said anything bad about them" are not red flags.

I had to include "fewer taxes" because OP decided guns and taxes are tied together somehow......


Guns may not stop the attacks, but they may give you a better chance of making it through one. Take a relatively common occurrence...a woman who takes out a restraining order on her abusive husband.


Imma stop ya right there....

This scenario has played out many times. The woman ends up being charged and jailed while the man goes free. That happens all the time. Most notable in Florida.

Guns are left out all the time and children murder other children. We have laws on the books but gun nuts keep going on about "gub'mint caint tells me what to do in my home!" so kids shoot kids.
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:44 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

So you find it acceptable that people are assaulted, raped, shot, stabbed, etc. in their own homes as long as they don't die? Yikes.


And you don't know how they fought back, or if their guns were accessible. You keep making outrageous claims that can't be supported.


The only outrageous claim here is your claim that 5 bullets are sufficient for an untrained person to defend themselves from a criminal who aims to harm them.


Do we need to run down the list YET AGAIN where five bullets did not work to stop a mass shooting?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:48 pm

Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws


Conservatives threatening us with a good time once again
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

And you don't know how they fought back, or if their guns were accessible. You keep making outrageous claims that can't be supported.


The only outrageous claim here is your claim that 5 bullets are sufficient for an untrained person to defend themselves from a criminal who aims to harm them.


So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?


There is no line, really. Many popular handguns hold nearly a dozen rounds. Many rifles can tolerate magazines that can hold 30 (or more). I think a 100-round drum for home defense would be a bit excessive (the weapon would be extremely heavy). Personally, with a rifle, I'd prefer a 10-round magazine.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:27 pm

N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:

The only outrageous claim here is your claim that 5 bullets are sufficient for an untrained person to defend themselves from a criminal who aims to harm them.


So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?


There is no line, really. Many popular handguns hold nearly a dozen rounds. Many rifles can tolerate magazines that can hold 30 (or more). I think a 100-round drum for home defense would be a bit excessive (the weapon would be extremely heavy). Personally, with a rifle, I'd prefer a 10-round magazine.

And why would one need a 100 pound drum for any reason? Why do we want 30 or more?
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N1611B
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
N1611B wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So where is your line? 6., 7. 9, ?
Well just tell me. How many did you use the last time you shot someone?


There is no line, really. Many popular handguns hold nearly a dozen rounds. Many rifles can tolerate magazines that can hold 30 (or more). I think a 100-round drum for home defense would be a bit excessive (the weapon would be extremely heavy). Personally, with a rifle, I'd prefer a 10-round magazine.

And why would one need a 100 pound drum for any reason? Why do we want 30 or more?


No normal person needs a 100-round drum, just like no one needs a Lamborghini. I personally think the 100-round drum is useless, as it is excessive and would be very heavy.
 
extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
And why would one need a 100 pound drum for any reason? Why do we want 30 or more?


And there we have it. That is why common sense escapes you. You want people armed with lever action rifles. I supposed everyone is supposed to drive a white Chevy Volt too...

That is why there is no debating, there is always a hidden agenda. Your facts are pulled from that box of hurt feelings. You have no clue how to use firearms are employed, ballistics or anything else.
 
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:24 am

He would have been up a duck's ass if he only had 4 or 5 rounds.

61-Year-Old Man Fights Off 4 Home Intruders – Kills 2 of Them With an AR-15

After arriving on the scene on Wednesday evening, officer Micah Moore found Doyle with a gunshot wound and a shotgun laying next to him on the ground. When officers entered the home, they found Jackson dead on the dining room floor.

According to police, Jackson was wearing a “Jason” mask on his head, gloves on his hands, jeans and a black t-shirt. Police also found a pistol near the suspect’s head.

As officers searched the home, they found the homeowner in a bedroom. He had an AR-15 rifle on his legs and was bleeding from a gunshot wound to the stomach. Both the homeowner and Doyle were transported to a local hospital, where Doyle died of his wounds.

Link


"When seconds count, the police are minutes away..." A glaring example of the recklessness of the argument posed above.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:07 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And why would one need a 100 pound drum for any reason? Why do we want 30 or more?


And there we have it. That is why common sense escapes you. You want people armed with lever action rifles. I supposed everyone is supposed to drive a white Chevy Volt too...

That is why there is no debating, there is always a hidden agenda. Your facts are pulled from that box of hurt feelings. You have no clue how to use firearms are employed, ballistics or anything else.


And you keep on lying and saying things i didn't say. You have no interest in explaining why you would blast 60 rounds for home defense. So keep making up your lies and being dishonorable.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And why would one need a 100 pound drum for any reason? Why do we want 30 or more?


And there we have it. That is why common sense escapes you. You want people armed with lever action rifles. I supposed everyone is supposed to drive a white Chevy Volt too...

That is why there is no debating, there is always a hidden agenda. Your facts are pulled from that box of hurt feelings. You have no clue how to use firearms are employed, ballistics or anything else.


And you keep on lying and saying things i didn't say. You have no interest in explaining why you would blast 60 rounds for home defense. So keep making up your lies and being dishonorable.


I didn't say home defense did I? Go look at your question. You can keep being ignorant and telling the world how it can defend itself.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

extender wrote:
He would have been up a duck's ass if he only had 4 or 5 rounds.

61-Year-Old Man Fights Off 4 Home Intruders – Kills 2 of Them With an AR-15

After arriving on the scene on Wednesday evening, officer Micah Moore found Doyle with a gunshot wound and a shotgun laying next to him on the ground. When officers entered the home, they found Jackson dead on the dining room floor.

According to police, Jackson was wearing a “Jason” mask on his head, gloves on his hands, jeans and a black t-shirt. Police also found a pistol near the suspect’s head.

As officers searched the home, they found the homeowner in a bedroom. He had an AR-15 rifle on his legs and was bleeding from a gunshot wound to the stomach. Both the homeowner and Doyle were transported to a local hospital, where Doyle died of his wounds.

Link


"When seconds count, the police are minutes away..." A glaring example of the recklessness of the argument posed above.


Here is an article that adds some glaring details. Apparently drugs and guns brought it on. I guess you do need an AR-15 if you are going to deal drugs.

https://www.villages-news.com/2019/07/1 ... -invasion/

During the investigation, the homeowner said he vaguely remembered one of the suspects from a past Craigslist transaction. Hamilton and Rodriguez told detectives that the four men went to the victim’s home with the intention of robbing him of marijuana and guns, the report says.
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:14 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:

And there we have it. That is why common sense escapes you. You want people armed with lever action rifles. I supposed everyone is supposed to drive a white Chevy Volt too...

That is why there is no debating, there is always a hidden agenda. Your facts are pulled from that box of hurt feelings. You have no clue how to use firearms are employed, ballistics or anything else.


And you keep on lying and saying things i didn't say. You have no interest in explaining why you would blast 60 rounds for home defense. So keep making up your lies and being dishonorable.


I didn't say home defense did I? Go look at your question. You can keep being ignorant and telling the world how it can defend itself.


This isn't about how the world can defend itself. You are lost in a bunch of your twisted gas-lighting about home gun ownership.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:48 pm

And you still don't have the knowledge to render an opinion; just your feelings.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:52 pm

extender wrote:
And you still don't have the knowledge to render an opinion; just your feelings.



Knowledge of what? Rambo ammosexuals ? You are right. What i do know is the physics of bullets and guns , and the general stupidity of the people that think they need more of them.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:57 pm

You don't know anything about firearms, yet you want to come across as a sage in here. You may know something about physics, but that is for another time and place. Your replies in this thread border on hysterics. Funny how you throw the word stupidity around.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:04 pm

extender wrote:
You don't know anything about firearms, yet you want to come across as a sage in here. You may know something about physics, but that is for another time and place. Your replies in this thread border on hysterics. Funny how you throw the word stupidity around.


And you still can't answer a question. Keep up with the gaslighting. Do you need all the ammo to protect yourself like the drug dealer did?
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:14 pm

extender wrote:
Lots of people asking for more laws. They complain why laws can't be enforced. If the state can't be arsed to fund their LEO, any argument is futile.

Using Illinois as an example.

Link


Let's go back to the original thread start.
You do realize that Illinois has a FLAT income tax. You would be arguing that that in itself is a failure right? We need progressive taxes right?
I am still not clear how your need for less laws relates to LEO's or to tax policy.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:20 pm

I need all the ammo necessary to stay proficient and protect myself. Not just the four or five rounds you tell us we need.

Again, Illinois is spending more than it takes in. Therein lies the problem. It isn't a taxation problem, it is a spending problem. So when you don't have the financial resources, many department are not properly funded. Many police departments take the hit. The state justice departments take the hit. So more laws, is a bigger burden.

Flat tax works if you have fiscal responsibility. The failure lies in being irresponsible. Just like your progressive taxes.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:41 pm

extender wrote:
I need all the ammo necessary to stay proficient and protect myself. Not just the four or five rounds you tell us we need.

Again, Illinois is spending more than it takes in. Therein lies the problem. It isn't a taxation problem, it is a spending problem. So when you don't have the financial resources, many department are not properly funded. Many police departments take the hit. The state justice departments take the hit. So more laws, is a bigger burden.

Flat tax works if you have fiscal responsibility. The failure lies in being irresponsible. Just like your progressive taxes.


I never said you need 4 or 5 rounds only. I want it illegal to for guns to hold more rounds than necessary for reasonable protection.

Well in Illinois case, they have to service the debt. and pay pensions out at a high level. if you want a raise move to another state.
https://www.civicfed.org/iifs/blog/illi ... ion-fy2019
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:59 pm

casinterest wrote:
I never said you need 4 or 5 rounds only. I want it illegal to for guns to hold more rounds than necessary for reasonable protection.

What is reasonable?
casinterest wrote:
Well in Illinois case, they have to service the debt. and pay pensions out at a high level. if you want a raise move to another state.
https://www.civicfed.org/iifs/blog/illi ... ion-fy2019


It does illustrate that they can't make ends meet and thus their obligations to departments suffer.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:02 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I never said you need 4 or 5 rounds only. I want it illegal to for guns to hold more rounds than necessary for reasonable protection.

What is reasonable?
casinterest wrote:
Well in Illinois case, they have to service the debt. and pay pensions out at a high level. if you want a raise move to another state.
https://www.civicfed.org/iifs/blog/illi ... ion-fy2019


It does illustrate that they can't make ends meet and thus their obligations to departments suffer.


Reasonable is far short of allowing 100 round drums and large clips with bump stocks on semi automatics.

People will leave Illinois, and their LEO's will quit and lose their pensions right?
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:04 pm

extender wrote:
I need all the ammo necessary to stay proficient and protect myself. Not just the four or five rounds you tell us we need.


Which is part of being in a well regulated militia.

extender wrote:
Again, Illinois is spending more than it takes in. Therein lies the problem. It isn't a taxation problem, it is a spending problem. So when you don't have the financial resources, many department are not properly funded. Many police departments take the hit. The state justice departments take the hit. So more laws, is a bigger burden.


A lot of states and even the federal government do that, spend beyond their means. Oregon and California raised taxes and cut spending and are both running a surplus. California had cut taxes and increased spending and ran deficits.

extender wrote:
Flat tax works if you have fiscal responsibility. The failure lies in being irresponsible. Just like your progressive taxes.


Tax loopholes for the rich and corporations need to be closed, too, in order for everyone to pay their share. Otherwise, you have the wealthy and corporations getting money back while the rest of us continue paying and paying and paying. Besides, not everyone can agree on what irresponsible spending is. Righties think it is irresponsible to spend money on education and health care for all.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Reasonable is far short of allowing 100 round drums and large clips with bump stocks on semi automatics.


Bump fire stocks have been banned already, so nothing to see there. Thirty rounds? That good for you?

casinterest wrote:
People will leave Illinois, and their LEO's will quit and lose their pensions right?


What happens when there is no money to pay the pensions? Keep raising taxes? What happens when LEOs aren't effective because they aren't properly funded? Given the tools to do their jobs?
 
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:26 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
People will leave Illinois, and their LEO's will quit and lose their pensions right?


What happens when there is no money to pay the pensions? Keep raising taxes? What happens when LEOs aren't effective because they aren't properly funded? Given the tools to do their jobs?


PART of the reason pensions are being under funded or cut is hatred for unions and making unions to be the enemy while, at the same time, cutting Social Security and Medicare. Giving people less so that, no matter how hard or long they work, they will end up falling way behind. We have been doing this "trickle down" thing for 40+ years and it is not working for We The People, only corporations and the very wealthy. We got the down, when are we going to get the trickle? Maybe if we did what we did in the 1950s and make unions strong and work for the middle class, we could have a middle class again.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Unions shouldn't be part of any government entity. That is how things were looked at, you didn't make as much as the private sector, but you had job security. Now the government is bloated, and to add, you have to pay salaries comparable in the public sector. No matter which way you look at it, it is going to bite you in the ass.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:27 pm

extender wrote:
Unions shouldn't be part of any government entity. That is how things were looked at, you didn't make as much as the private sector, but you had job security. Now the government is bloated, and to add, you have to pay salaries comparable in the public sector. No matter which way you look at it, it is going to bite you in the ass.


So I assume you aren't in a Union right, but Government employees that have to put of with budget delays and being passed over fro raises shouldn't form a group to try to put pressure on politicians and the public to remember to pay a decent salary and benefit?

Also wasn't this thread started about LEO's? They are Government employees.
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seb146
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:32 pm

extender wrote:
Unions shouldn't be part of any government entity. That is how things were looked at, you didn't make as much as the private sector, but you had job security. Now the government is bloated, and to add, you have to pay salaries comparable in the public sector. No matter which way you look at it, it is going to bite you in the ass.


Private sector union jobs. Like the auto makers or airlines. We have to hate them and get rid of them and, also, get rid of social safety nets so that, when we can not afford things like food and health care, it is our fault. We don't have private sector unions much anymore. That makes it darn near impossible for us who want a living wage and affordable health care and a pension to get any of that. Unions could enter collective bargaining for all us employees before. But, for some reason, that is horrible. For some reason, we hard workers with no tools to negotiate against a team of lawyers are out of luck.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:36 pm

Which makes my point, they are the government employees, and when they want, they can't enforce laws, are apathetic, and who is to say they won't strike. WHen that happens, how are you going to protect yourself?

You never did answer,

Based on your statement:
I want it illegal to for guns to hold more rounds than necessary for reasonable protection.

How many rounds should we be allowed to have?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:38 pm

extender wrote:
Which makes my point, they are the government employees, and when they want, they can't enforce laws, are apathetic, and who is to say they won't strike. WHen that happens, how are you going to protect yourself?

You never did answer,

Based on your statement:
I want it illegal to for guns to hold more rounds than necessary for reasonable protection.

How many rounds should we be allowed to have?


Per clip, a max of 10 for a homeowner.
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extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:39 pm

seb146 wrote:
... when we can not afford things like food and health care, it is our fault.


Employer offered healthcare was created as a way to attract/retain employees without giving them raises. Also, it wasn't taxable to the employee, so it was a benefit. Funny how Obama wrecked that.
 
extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
Per clip, a max of 10 for a homeowner.


See, that is why having these discussions with you is like listening to nails scratch a black board. You meant M-A-G-A-Z-I-N-E-S. C-L-I-P-S are stamped metal clips that keep the ammunition together to facilitate reloading. Technicalities aside, all you would have to do is carry more magazines. Something 45 shooters are used to. And you can swap magazines in under a second. But why limit someone to 10 rounds? After all, you have no clue, you're just regurgitating what you hear.
 
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:09 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Per clip, a max of 10 for a homeowner.


See, that is why having these discussions with you is like listening to nails scratch a black board. You meant M-A-G-A-Z-I-N-E-S. C-L-I-P-S are stamped metal clips that keep the ammunition together to facilitate reloading. Technicalities aside, all you would have to do is carry more magazines. Something 45 shooters are used to. And you can swap magazines in under a second. But why limit someone to 10 rounds? After all, you have no clue, you're just regurgitating what you hear.



So the person that can switch clips in one second, can't hit a target with 10 shots right?
That is what you are saying right?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
So the person that can switch clips in one second, can't hit a target with 10 shots right?
That is what you are saying right?


There you go again, making assumptions. You can hit moving targets, multiple targets, low light... So many things. You're better off sticking to things you know something about.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Put Your Faith in Government, More Laws

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:34 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
So the person that can switch clips in one second, can't hit a target with 10 shots right?
That is what you are saying right?


There you go again, making assumptions. You can hit moving targets, multiple targets, low light... So many things. You're better off sticking to things you know something about.



Stick to what I know. ? Still can't make any intelligent statements about why you need more than 10 rounds? Was your 60 rounds fired while high on pot at the wall?
Where ever you go, there you are.

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