mham001
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:20 pm

Tugger wrote:
mham001 wrote:
They don't talk about it at all in my daughter's schools in California. Not even mentioned, I ask my kids every year. It isn't politically correct, it may offend the occasional Muslim kid.

I have no idea what you are talking about. My kids school (here in California) has it and they discuss it in their classes and have a moment of remembrance etc. on the anniversary every year for it.

Tugg


It would make sense you have no idea, you are not in my school district. It is what it is here. I have even talked to one principal about it. 9/11 is looked at very differently on the west coast.
 
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Tugger
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:39 pm

Sorry, I refuse to accept the "west coast" thing. But yes, each district is different and SoCal is very different from NoCal (as is the central valley from the coastal cities from the true NORTHERN California).

I will note though that it is not that big a deal for my kids as they did not live through it nor have any experience of life without it in their world. They get it that it was a huge event and that it was terrible and understand its importance and the tributes etc. but it is distinctly different for the kids that grew up with it versus everyone else for whom it was an utter and terrible shock to everything in life. As one poster above noted, post 9/11 air travel isn't that much of a bother to them as that is all they have known.

We adults share our experiences with them and each year honor it and what happened and have explained it to the younger generation, but it's not like we do it daily or can actually get across the effects that day had on us and our world and our view of it and how it impacted our interaction with the rest of the world etc. For our kids it just is part of history, part of the world, an event that happened. For better or worse they will only learn what we experienced when their Kennedy/Challenger/9/11/whatever. happens. It is sad but it is reality and has been that way forever.

Honestly as one born after Kennedy, can you actually feel what your parents felt when their world changed and their president was assassinated? And with WWII, I loved learning about it and reading about all the ships, tanks, submarines and the fear and terror the crews and troops experienced, it was/is incredible to delve into. The adventures and assaults people wrote and made movies about after were fascinating. And this is even with my dad telling me about hiding my Opa from the Nazis when they would come looking for men to conscript, and my mom describing hiding in the basement during the bombings and having blackout curtains and how lucky her family was for having a good garden so they had decent food during that time etc.

To me WWII was an event, the same goes for our kids now. I say this with all proper and due respect for what happened and the lives that were lost that day 18 years ago.

Tugg
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mham001
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:15 pm

Tugger wrote:
Sorry, I refuse to accept the "west coast" thing. But yes, each district is different and SoCal is very different from NoCal (as is the central valley from the coastal cities from the true NORTHERN California).


I've lived in both, 9/11 gets half the play here. It's a long way away.

Tugger wrote:
I will note though that it is not that big a deal for my kids as they did not live through it nor have any experience of life without it in their world.


9/11 plays a much larger role in their life than you are admitting. Many laws have been enacted affecting their free travel and their privacy, just to name two. Security is much different, and in fact, 9/11 still affects their lives much more than most historical events. They should know about it. In my district they are more interested in making sure that kindergartners know that a white man shot MLK!, for one example my 5 year old angrily mentioned. But that is another subject.
 
denkcflyer
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:52 pm

I was 6 years old, but I still remember this day with more clarity than most of my childhood memories.

My dad was waiting with me at my bus stop when a neighbor passed by and told us what happened.

I do have a fear of flying now (not totally debilitating - I’m working on it). I do wonder sometimes if being exposed to this had anything to do with it.

My heart breaks every year imagining what those poor people experienced. I pray we never see anything like this happen again.
 
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Revelation
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 pm

Tugger wrote:
Honestly as one born after Kennedy, can you actually feel what your parents felt when their world changed and their president was assassinated? And with WWII, I loved learning about it and reading about all the ships, tanks, submarines and the fear and terror the crews and troops experienced, it was/is incredible to delve into. The adventures and assaults people wrote and made movies about after were fascinating. And this is even with my dad telling me about hiding my Opa from the Nazis when they would come looking for men to conscript, and my mom describing hiding in the basement during the bombings and having blackout curtains and how lucky her family was for having a good garden so they had decent food during that time etc.

And yet GWB lived through Vietnam, and his post 9/11 reaction showed he learned nothing from it.

It shows that living through a major event doesn't necessarily impart a lesson on some.

Tugger wrote:
To me WWII was an event, the same goes for our kids now. I say this with all proper and due respect for what happened and the lives that were lost that day 18 years ago.

To GWB Vietnam was an event he dodged by occasionally showing up to his Texas ANG unit that his dad hooked him up with.
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NIKV69
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:54 pm

I was working at a different golf club than I am now. Tuesday is ladies day and all our ladies were on the golf course when the first plane hit. Most of their husbands were in the WTC or Merryl Lynch building across the street. I drove out to bring them in and they all broke down most were in the golf pro shop watching on our TV crying and trying to get in touch with their husbands. We lost one in Cantor Fitzgerald in addition to a woman in the other tower. One of our members who owned a business near the WTC drove himself out and came to the club totally losing it and the stories of what he saw where incredible. Our club president called and shut us down and told everyone to go home to be with family. I stayed a little longer to field the endless calls for check ins. I actually saw one of those women today who came to play an event we had at my current place of employment and we spoke about it. Every memory is like it was yesterday. Timing was so close and she told me things I forgot that happened but her memory brought it back.

It's why I hate and despise Rep Omar for her words were so hateful.

Never forget.
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Aaron747
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:15 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I was working at a different golf club than I am now. Tuesday is ladies day and all our ladies were on the golf course when the first plane hit. Most of their husbands were in the WTC or Merryl Lynch building across the street. I drove out to bring them in and they all broke down most were in the golf pro shop watching on our TV crying and trying to get in touch with their husbands. We lost one in Cantor Fitzgerald in addition to a woman in the other tower. One of our members who owned a business near the WTC drove himself out and came to the club totally losing it and the stories of what he saw where incredible. Our club president called and shut us down and told everyone to go home to be with family. I stayed a little longer to field the endless calls for check ins. I actually saw one of those women today who came to play an event we had at my current place of employment and we spoke about it. Every memory is like it was yesterday. Timing was so close and she told me things I forgot that happened but her memory brought it back.

It's why I hate and despise Rep Omar for her words were so hateful.

Never forget.


So you pick on one member of Congress but have no disdain for the fact three consecutive administrations continue to shield Saudi and make attempts for victims to sue their govt more difficult...? The actions of 43, 44, and now 45 are tantamount to ‘some people did something...but they’re important people, so we won’t go there.’. Yes, your pain is important but the interests of a certain royal family are higher priority, sorry!
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Veigar
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 pm

Reading the thread made that morning was unsettling to say the least...

is it true that passports are now required for US-Canada travel now?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:05 am

melpax wrote:
The attacks happened late night Australian time, around 10.30PM. I remember watching the West Wing when a newsflash came on in a breaksaying that a 'light plane' had hit one of the WTC towers. This was quickly followed by another newsflash with the first pictures, and I realised that it was not a Cessna that had hit the tower,,,, I spent the rest of the night switching between the 3 commercial networks (who were basically showing the US network feeds), and CNN & Fox News. Not much sleep was had that night....


Unbelievable. I too was watching The West Wing when a newsflash of the event happened. The thing is, I was in Malaysia.
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Kent350787
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 am

Another Aussie here, although I was watching Buffy that night before the late news on Network 10. Sandra Sully was IIRC the only news anchor broadcating as the footage came through.

The first plane had hit and people were trying to work out what had happened. I thought wow, but it was also around 11pm and went to bed.

I woke up to find that both towers were down. Everyone at work was just dazed that morning. My wife flew to MEL on 13/9/2001 when things were still very uncertain around security, and was sranded when Ansett airlines shut down.
 
texdravid
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:57 am

Several thoughts:

1). America as we used to know it, died that day along with those in the towers and air. Every generation has a "loss of innocence" tragedy, but 9/11 was fundamentally different. After WWI, there was a "return to normalcy".

After WWII, there was a clear drawdown of the armed forces, no more wartime restrictions, and optimism was everywhere.

After Vietnam, people just went on with their lives and the anti-war groups and other radicals grew up and went to work.

However, nearly 20 years after 9/11, so much has changed and will NEVER go back to the same.

We are now a hyper-vigilant, militaristic society with degradations of freedoms and privacy and security, or security theater, rules the land.

2). Post 9/11 was the catalyst for the slow motion civil war occurring in this country. The blue states got way bluer, the red states got redder, everything is seen through a political lens, and our political discourse is war like. Put simply, the American people split in two soon after 9/11, and the two worlds have drifted even further since. The red and blue states have virtually nothing in common and never will again.
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Aaron747
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:24 am

texdravid wrote:
Several thoughts:

1). America as we used to know it, died that day along with those in the towers and air. Every generation has a "loss of innocence" tragedy, but 9/11 was fundamentally different. After WWI, there was a "return to normalcy".

After WWII, there was a clear drawdown of the armed forces, no more wartime restrictions, and optimism was everywhere.

After Vietnam, people just went on with their lives and the anti-war groups and other radicals grew up and went to work.

However, nearly 20 years after 9/11, so much has changed and will NEVER go back to the same.

We are now a hyper-vigilant, militaristic society with degradations of freedoms and privacy and security, or security theater, rules the land.

2). Post 9/11 was the catalyst for the slow motion civil war occurring in this country. The blue states got way bluer, the red states got redder, everything is seen through a political lens, and our political discourse is war like. Put simply, the American people split in two soon after 9/11, and the two worlds have drifted even further since. The red and blue states have virtually nothing in common and never will again.


Spot on - I would add to part two that the urban rural divide also deepened, evidenced by the blue-red splits now present in most red states.

9/11 struck a multicultural city manifestly the capital of the global economy culture the US cultivated since WW2. The response to the terror threat was markedly different between people in cities - no to war in Iraq, yes to more dialogue with certain faiths - and rural America - yes to war in Iraq, no to being a multicultural society and country. People in and around US cities wanted more engagement and for normalcy to return - people in rural areas did not want to go back to ‘the new normal’ and turned further more insular. This another critical root of the current political divide.
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Revelation
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:36 pm

texdravid wrote:
We are now a hyper-vigilant, militaristic society with degradations of freedoms and privacy and security, or security theater, rules the land.

2). Post 9/11 was the catalyst for the slow motion civil war occurring in this country. The blue states got way bluer, the red states got redder, everything is seen through a political lens, and our political discourse is war like. Put simply, the American people split in two soon after 9/11, and the two worlds have drifted even further since. The red and blue states have virtually nothing in common and never will again.

This reaction and its aftermath was largely a function of the neocon clique that was in power at the time.

Their reaction was the ultimate in confirmation bias.

I so wish the chad had hung slightly differently in Florida.

Maybe all this is in part payback for all the voting shenanigans we put up with (and still do) in the "worlds greatest democracy" yada yada.
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texdravid
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
texdravid wrote:
We are now a hyper-vigilant, militaristic society with degradations of freedoms and privacy and security, or security theater, rules the land.

2). Post 9/11 was the catalyst for the slow motion civil war occurring in this country. The blue states got way bluer, the red states got redder, everything is seen through a political lens, and our political discourse is war like. Put simply, the American people split in two soon after 9/11, and the two worlds have drifted even further since. The red and blue states have virtually nothing in common and never will again.

This reaction and its aftermath was largely a function of the neocon clique that was in power at the time.

Their reaction was the ultimate in confirmation bias.

I so wish the chad had hung slightly differently in Florida.

Maybe all this is in part payback for all the voting shenanigans we put up with (and still do) in the "worlds greatest democracy" yada yada.



Thanks for making this so one sided politically.
We can all point fingers. The only fact and not opinion is that post 9/11 we are divided and the egg is permanently broken. Just the way it is.

It didn’t matter who was in the White House then or now. The internet and online communities and culture writ large have caused and exacerbated this split.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
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casinterest
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:12 pm

texdravid wrote:
Revelation wrote:
texdravid wrote:
We are now a hyper-vigilant, militaristic society with degradations of freedoms and privacy and security, or security theater, rules the land.

2). Post 9/11 was the catalyst for the slow motion civil war occurring in this country. The blue states got way bluer, the red states got redder, everything is seen through a political lens, and our political discourse is war like. Put simply, the American people split in two soon after 9/11, and the two worlds have drifted even further since. The red and blue states have virtually nothing in common and never will again.

This reaction and its aftermath was largely a function of the neocon clique that was in power at the time.

Their reaction was the ultimate in confirmation bias.

I so wish the chad had hung slightly differently in Florida.

Maybe all this is in part payback for all the voting shenanigans we put up with (and still do) in the "worlds greatest democracy" yada yada.



Thanks for making this so one sided politically.
We can all point fingers. The only fact and not opinion is that post 9/11 we are divided and the egg is permanently broken. Just the way it is.

It didn’t matter who was in the White House then or now. The internet and online communities and culture writ large have caused and exacerbated this split.



How is this permanently broken? Politics are always changing, and the issues that matter today, may not matter tomorrow politically. Within families there are conservatives, liberals and moderates. Nothing is permanent unless you choose to make it that way for yourself.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ericalexandre76
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:09 pm

Revelation wrote:
ericalexandre76 wrote:
Might you have been surprised to discover that the fighter pilot in question is female?

Nope, not at all.

ericalexandre76 wrote:
Or why did you feel the need to highlight this incidental part of the story?

Because the story itself did highlight this incidental part of the story.

Any more ax grinding to do, or did we grind it to dust already?


And you wanted to make sure nobody missed that incidental part to the story, a woman can be a fighter pilot in 2001! The article mentions the pilot, does not highlight she is female though! It is 2019, must you still be surprised a woman can be a fighter pilot and highlight it?
 
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Revelation
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:21 pm

ericalexandre76 wrote:
The article mentions the pilot, does not highlight she is female though!

TFA says:

For years, Penney, one of the first generation of female combat pilots in the country, gave no interviews about her experiences on Sept. 11 (which included, eventually, escorting Air Force One back into Washington’s suddenly highly restricted airspace).

This is the line I paraphrased in my original post.

And:

She was a rookie in the autumn of 2001, the first female F-16 pilot they’d ever had at the 121st Fighter Squadron of the D.C. Air National Guard.

So the article highlighted her gender twice.

Any more left of that ax to grind, or can we just drop it now?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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ArchGuy1
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:08 am

In addition to airspace in North America being shut down and New York City and Washington, DC being shut down, landmarks like the Sears Tower, Gateway Arch, CN Tower, and Seattle Space Needle were shut down. Federal buildings were also shut down.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 am

BART didn’t run in the Bay Area for two days and many downtown SF buildings were closed until security inspections were complete.
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Aesma
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:01 pm

My earlier message saying nothing was learnt that day has been deleted, yet others are still there saying the same thing.

This was caused by "the West", led by the US, getting involved in wars for oil in the Middle East. Consequence ? More wars fought in the Middle East. This was caused by people seeing all Muslims as terrorists. Consequence ? Even more of that.

So yes, it will probably happen again.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:06 am

I did not hear about it until I got to work that morning. They asked if I had heard that a plane had crashed into the WTC. I didn't think much of it, as they did not say an airliner had crashed into the WTC. So I was thinking a small plane. Because to me a plane and and airliner is a different beast. Maybe they had no idea for sure, and were just parroting what they had heard.

When they announced a second plane had hit the WTC, I knew this was no accident. I tried to get a live TV feed on the internet on my work computer, but the WWW was running slow due to the massive number of people using it that day.

I wanted to just go home, but we did C/S for the power company, so I stayed to the end of my shift, as did the others. Being new to the job, my days off were the next two days. I remember how quiet it was, as I heard and saw no airplane traffic at all. I lived close enough to the DFW airport to notice.

I remember we had to wait about 2 weeks before the public got to see overhead views of the WTC area. Ground level views were released in the first week.
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CitizenJustin
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:08 am

Revelation wrote:
Also, for some chilling memories, read the a.net thread from that very morning:

viewtopic.php?t=105795



Thanks for posting this. It’s an important minute by minute account of the terror unfolding.

I did this a year ago, because I wanted to know if the widely held belief that conversation has declined on A.net is true. There’s definitely a change in tone post- 9/11. Pre 9/11 A.net was a different place and enjoyed less division and heated political debates. I think one of the far reaching consequences of 9/11 is the absolutely insane political climate we’re living in now. Bush’s decision to go to war was initially supported on both side of the aisle, but it all faded and somehow people against the war became faux patriots and America haters. It’s gone downhill since then. Mix all of that with the first black president and gay marriage and people’s heads exploded.
 
Kent350787
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:39 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Also, for some chilling memories, read the a.net thread from that very morning:

viewtopic.php?t=105795



Thanks for posting this. It’s an important minute by minute account of the terror unfolding.


I agree. Interesting to see the Cessna references, as that's what late night TV news in Australia was still reporting following the first impact when I went to bed.
 
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Revelation
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Re: September 11, 2001 ... 18 Years Later. Never Forget!

Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:48 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
I did this a year ago, because I wanted to know if the widely held belief that conversation has declined on A.net is true. There’s definitely a change in tone post- 9/11. Pre 9/11 A.net was a different place and enjoyed less division and heated political debates. I think one of the far reaching consequences of 9/11 is the absolutely insane political climate we’re living in now. Bush’s decision to go to war was initially supported on both side of the aisle, but it all faded and somehow people against the war became faux patriots and America haters. It’s gone downhill since then. Mix all of that with the first black president and gay marriage and people’s heads exploded.

As I wrote earlier, I feel the administration of the day was predisposed to some sort of action, and often wondered what would have happened had the chad swung a different way than it did in Florida in the 2000 election.

Also a sign of the pre-9/11 times is that Al Gore did not drag out the hanging chad drama, thinking it would be best for the nation.

I can't picture any current politician doing such, and in some regard, kinda wish Gore had fought on so we could have had a big push for uniform voting technology in the US.

The tech my town used at the time of the 2000 election and still uses is the scanned sheet with magic marker approach which has so many advantages over technologies that have preceded and succeeded it.

The way the US approaches voting is an absolute joke, and still has the strong stench of gamesmanship and disenfranchisement to it.

The fact that we tolerate it is another sign of the times.

The way the current Senate has abandoned the super majority for Supreme Court nominations also has undermined the moral authority of the Supreme Court so it's not clear its decisions would be as respected in the current climate.

We will now live by the precedents laid down by the Cheeto Benito and his cabal, lord help us.
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The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own

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