extender
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Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:14 pm

Preamble:
Discus the facts, not your emotions or feelings. Want to engage in a civil discussion on gun violence? Let's do it.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

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2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

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Link

More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles. A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.


3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

Link
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4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

Link


5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilianowned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership.

Link


6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.

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7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

...Actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.

Link

If, for you, my AR-15 ownership is prima facie evidence of my mental instability, sexual inadequacy, lack of a conscience, or what-have-you, then I honestly don't care what you think about this issue. You can go back to broadcasting your own moral superiority on social media, and I can go back to tuning you out until your rage therapy session is over.
Link



8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution

as a group, concealed carry permit holders are some of the most law-abiding people in the United States. The rate at which they commit crimes generally and firearm crimes specifically is between one-sixth and one-tenth of that recorded for police officers, who are themselves committing crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general population.

Link
 
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casinterest
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:34 pm

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Take a look at those high death rate states and see if you see a pattern.

Image

Take a look at those active shooter incidents per year.
Image
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:54 pm

extender wrote:
8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution

as a group, concealed carry permit holders are some of the most law-abiding people in the United States. The rate at which they commit crimes generally and firearm crimes specifically is between one-sixth and one-tenth of that recorded for police officers, who are themselves committing crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general population.

Link

Yes agreed absolutely! And you make the case perfectly for good solid gun control and laws about firearm possession! CCA requires the person to be responsible or they will lose their license to carry, and in many places the person needs to demonstrate competence etc. to obtain one. This is a good thing and shows how doing this results in a better firearm ownership situation.

So thank you for making a good case for proper regulation and laws on firearms!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:11 pm

extender wrote:
Preamble:
Discus the facts, not your emotions or feelings. Want to engage in a civil discussion on gun violence? Let's do it.

Sure! With whom though? Because you're incapable of discussing facts.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seb146
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:14 pm

extender wrote:
5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilianowned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership.

Link


Let's also take into account that Canada has strong gun laws and a strong health care program.


extender wrote:
7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

...Actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.

Link

If, for you, my AR-15 ownership is prima facie evidence of my mental instability, sexual inadequacy, lack of a conscience, or what-have-you, then I honestly don't care what you think about this issue. You can go back to broadcasting your own moral superiority on social media, and I can go back to tuning you out until your rage therapy session is over.
Link


Your introduction asks that we keep our emotions in check as we post but then this is posted.

The United States could be a nation who's population owns guns safely but Republicans and NRA do not want to make laws or do anything because feelings might be hurt. The same Republicans are talking about banning vape pens because of the health risk but refuse to do anything about guns which have a health risk.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
extender
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Tugger wrote:
So thank you for making a good case for proper regulation and laws on firearms!


You don't regulate a right. What you are alluding to is Concealed Carry, which can be regulated.
 
extender
Topic Author
Posts: 263
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:55 pm

seb146 wrote:
Your introduction asks that we keep our emotions in check as we post but then this is posted.


This is directed at a certain individual that shall remain nameless, who starts tossing about suck terms. And that is a direct quote from the article in Vox.
 
2122M
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:14 pm

To summarize, Mr. Extender sees no problem with the way things are and sees no reason to change anything. Mass shootings and gun violence be damned!

Reasonable people everywhere disagree. And no-one is changing anyone's mind.

Also, you can absolutely regulate a right. We've covered this with you before. There are regulations to my right to free speech, there are regulations as to the types of arms I'm allowed to own.

Hell, look at the 8th, excessive bail shall not be required. Well, if you're poor, any amount of bail can be considered excessive, so clearly there are limits to that right as well.
 
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seb146
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:26 pm

extender wrote:
Tugger wrote:
So thank you for making a good case for proper regulation and laws on firearms!


You don't regulate a right. What you are alluding to is Concealed Carry, which can be regulated.


So I can walk into a crowded auditorium and scream "FIRE!" because I have that right.

Rights CAN be regulated.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:27 pm

extender wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Your introduction asks that we keep our emotions in check as we post but then this is posted.


This is directed at a certain individual that shall remain nameless, who starts tossing about suck terms. And that is a direct quote from the article in Vox.


The same article that argues FOR gun control?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
The same Republicans are talking about banning vape pens because of the health risk but refuse to do anything about guns which have a health risk.

The Tobacco Lobby finally has the means to revive and invest money into politician coffers, and their foothold is getting rid of e-cigarettes and vaping pens. Whichever political party promises to do that can receive hefty checks. It would explain why Republicans suddenly jumped aboard: if they were truly concerned about health impacts, they'd be in favor of legalizing cannabis and placing larger restrictions on tobacco...but the Tobacco Lobby hands out more money to Republicans so it only makes sense that they are currying favor.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
extender
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:42 pm

You'd better get in the line to stop knife attacks, DUI deaths. Until then, you can't pretend anything but the fact that your objective is a total ban.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:54 pm

For years, stats show that over 60 % of the gun related deaths in the USA are suicides. Other countries may have higher rates of suicides, but not with guns. There is the concentration of criminal gun deaths in cities, like Chicago, especially surrounding the illegal drug trades, people needing money for drugs and so on that skews our gun death numbers.

The real issue for the USA and its contrast vs. European and other developed countries is culture as to guns. That is a bit too complex to discuss here more fully but parts of it for the USA was from our creation, not wanting strong central armies but people's militias providing their own guns. Until we change our culture, that one needs to possess and use guns for their standing, their manhood, control and power, then the numbers of those dead by criminal use of guns will continue.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:14 pm

extender wrote:
Tugger wrote:
So thank you for making a good case for proper regulation and laws on firearms!


You don't regulate a right.

Of course you do. Do you agree with voter ID laws to vote? Lots of rights have rules and limits etc. that go with them. Rights are not unfettered.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17494
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:20 pm

extender wrote:
Tugger wrote:
So thank you for making a good case for proper regulation and laws on firearms!


You don't regulate a right.

If that is what you think, then there is no point in discussing it further, as I already guessed as much.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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casinterest
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 pm

As the number of mass murders using AR-15's and associated assault rifles continues to rise. the OP wants to continue to sit on his own personal rights instead of the rights of life ,liberty , and the pursuit of happiness for the rest of the world. he says debates on facts are welcome but only his facts and opinions are welcome. This is how the world gets tyrants and mas murderers.

The ease of access to assault weapons and tools that make semi-automatics turn into assault rifles needs to be checked. There are far more deaths by guns, then there are by diving boards, yet it costs an arm and a leg to insure a diving board. It should be the same for all gun owners in order to pay out the victims families for their continued subjection to death at the arms of those that shouldn't have them in the first place.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
extender
Topic Author
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:38 pm

Tugger wrote:
Of course you do. Do you agree with voter ID laws to vote? Lots of rights have rules and limits etc. that go with them. Rights are not unfettered.


You need to prove you are eligible to vote. Just like you need to prove you are eligible to own a firearm.
 
extender
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 pm

casinterest wrote:
The ease of access to assault weapons and tools that make semi-automatics turn into assault rifles needs to be checked.


You can't turn a semi-auto into an assault rifle. There you go again.

casinterest wrote:
There are far more deaths by guns, then there are by diving boards, yet it costs an arm and a leg to insure a diving board.


More deaths by cars, where are your cries to ban them?


casinterest wrote:
It should be the same for all gun owners in order to pay out the victims families for their continued subjection to death at the arms of those that shouldn't have them in the first place.


That is what civil suits are for. Unless the victim was doing something illegal at the time they got shot, then they are up shit's creek.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:44 pm

extender wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Of course you do. Do you agree with voter ID laws to vote? Lots of rights have rules and limits etc. that go with them. Rights are not unfettered.


You need to prove you are eligible to vote. Just like you need to prove you are eligible to own a firearm.

Which one is it? Because all we ever hear from 2nd Amendment supporters is to refer to the part where it says "shall not be infringed" as evidence that to institute license, background checks, and/or a national registry is to infringe on that right. So by that logic, the "shall not be infringed" part implies that even a 3 year old can own a gun (there's no age restriction).

So again: which one is it? If I need to prove I am eligible to own a firearm, it means the right is regulated.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:45 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There are far more deaths by guns, then there are by diving boards, yet it costs an arm and a leg to insure a diving board.


More deaths by cars, where are your cries to ban them?

A car's primary purpose is to transport people from point A to point B. By that logic, after 9/11, we should have banned all commercial air travel.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Facts On Gun Violence In America

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:53 pm

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The ease of access to assault weapons and tools that make semi-automatics turn into assault rifles needs to be checked.


You can't turn a semi-auto into an assault rifle. There you go again.


Bump stocks and large chamber round clips say you are flat out wrong.
extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There are far more deaths by guns, then there are by diving boards, yet it costs an arm and a leg to insure a diving board.


More deaths by cars, where are your cries to ban them?


There you go again. Where did I say ban? Cars have insurance costs. You buy one with a high propensity for races and collisions, and you are going to pay a hefty fee. Especially as your own record of violation gets worse.

extender wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It should be the same for all gun owners in order to pay out the victims families for their continued subjection to death at the arms of those that shouldn't have them in the first place.


That is what civil suits are for. Unless the victim was doing something illegal at the time they got shot, then they are up shit's creek.


No Guns are used to kill. The higher the rate of deaths by guns, the higher the costs of ammunition and purchases by taxes to help pay for health care in the US. Civil suits don't help many people when they are dead. Raising the barrier to entrance into gun use will lower the amount of deaths.

Image


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/ ... un-deaths/

Alaska stands out at the top of the chart, while Rhode Island, New Jersey and Massachusetts are notable for their low ownership and low number of deaths.

More than 30,000 people are killed by firearms in the US each year. The vast majority are suicides. Data suggests this number is on the rise: 38,000 people were killed by firearms in 2016, up from an average of 33,000 from 2012-2014.
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