ArchGuy1
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Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:57 am

Does anyone know what exactly is going on with Amazon's second headquarters, because I know that they pulled out of Long Island City in New York and still have their Northern Virginia headquarters on.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:59 pm

From reading the Seattle media: North Virginia seems to be on schedule. Amazon continues to hire by the tens of thousands. Seattle area is absorbing a lot of those hired, both in Seattle and east of Lake Washington, Bellevue.
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sulley
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:49 pm

I live in Crystal City and HQ2 construction is humming along outside of my window.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:42 pm

Will the New York City portion of Amazon's second headquarters be consolidated in Northern Virginia.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:04 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Will the New York City portion of Amazon's second headquarters be consolidated in Northern Virginia.

The better question to ask is why would they. Why would they get rid of their footprint in NYC? Wall Street is there. It also makes for a nice tech center.

Not all companies have to consolidate all operations to the same building.
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johns624
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:37 pm

The most important question is whether it will have an observation deck and what the admittance fee will be.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:06 pm

johns624 wrote:
The most important question is whether it will have an observation deck and what the admittance fee will be.

And what makes it significant.
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afcjets
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:24 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Will the New York City portion of Amazon's second headquarters be consolidated in Northern Virginia.

The better question to ask is why would they. Why would they get rid of their footprint in NYC? Wall Street is there. It also makes for a nice tech center.

Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:30 pm

afcjets wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Will the New York City portion of Amazon's second headquarters be consolidated in Northern Virginia.

The better question to ask is why would they. Why would they get rid of their footprint in NYC? Wall Street is there. It also makes for a nice tech center.

Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:46 am

stl07 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
The better question to ask is why would they. Why would they get rid of their footprint in NYC? Wall Street is there. It also makes for a nice tech center.

Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.

Where will the New York portion of Amazon's second headquarters be located now.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:02 pm

afcjets wrote:
Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Too bad for her, Amazon's current office in NYC is NOT in her district so Jeff Bezos and others have no need to pay attention to her. And their office has been there long before AOC entered the scene.
I'm not talking about an expanded presence or the future location of HQ2; I'm talking about the office they already have: why would they get rid of it?
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:16 pm

stl07 wrote:
Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.

A cost analysis should have been done to see if the added jobs will benefit the area in the long run. It may cause headaches for people in the short term (rent increases, more traffic, etc), but does it mean an expanded tax base in the city with high performing individuals?

That being said, I don't think Amazon should have located to either NoVA or NYC. As much as I would have liked Boston, that too would have been unproductive. I agree with Bill Maher (who had a New Rules segment dedicated to this) in that Amazon should have considered somewhere else: Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis. Not only does the company revive a dying city (and stop the outflow of people), it also means changing the politics of the state.

Heck, even setting up in nowheresville US can have positive benefits.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:27 pm

NYC is not closed to Amazon. What is not likely is a large major Amazon Park requiring lots of infrastructure and tons of nearby housing. I expect that Amazon will eventually have a few 10s of thousands of employees in NYC, but scattered in areas well connected by subways.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:05 pm

stl07 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
The better question to ask is why would they. Why would they get rid of their footprint in NYC? Wall Street is there. It also makes for a nice tech center.

Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.

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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:06 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Too bad for her, Amazon's current office in NYC is NOT in her district so Jeff Bezos and others have no need to pay attention to her. And their office has been there long before AOC entered the scene.
I'm not talking about an expanded presence or the future location of HQ2; I'm talking about the office they already have: why would they get rid of it?

The Chrysler Building or World Trade Center would be a good location for Amazon's HQ2.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:10 pm

afcjets wrote:
Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.


I wouldn’t call her the reason. The real reason is that Amazon probably realized that the decision to move to NYC wasn’t optimal. And used AOC rhetorics as a way out of a deal with positive publicity (“no community support”) vs negative one (just get out of the deal).
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:21 pm

anrec80 wrote:

I wouldn’t call her the reason. The real reason is that Amazon probably realized that the decision to move to NYC wasn’t optimal. And used AOC rhetorics as a way out of a deal with positive publicity (“no community support”) vs negative one (just get out of the deal).


Did you pay attention the story? Amazon said themselves it was the push back by the politicians of all levels involved and knowledge it would not stop and make it impossible for them to sign the deal. Typical fringe zealots biting their nose off to spite their faces. Hope they are happy.
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anrec80
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Did you pay attention the story? Amazon said themselves it was the push back by the politicians of all levels involved and knowledge it would not stop and make it impossible for them to sign the deal. Typical fringe zealots biting their nose off to spite their faces. Hope they are happy.


Yes, I did. This is what Amazon said - because they could say it. They had full support of both Di Blasio and Cuomo - I don’t think they would not have handled this matter had they had a real desire to do so.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:25 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.

A cost analysis should have been done to see if the added jobs will benefit the area in the long run. It may cause headaches for people in the short term (rent increases, more traffic, etc), but does it mean an expanded tax base in the city with high performing individuals?

That being said, I don't think Amazon should have located to either NoVA or NYC. As much as I would have liked Boston, that too would have been unproductive. I agree with Bill Maher (who had a New Rules segment dedicated to this) in that Amazon should have considered somewhere else: Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis. Not only does the company revive a dying city (and stop the outflow of people), it also means changing the politics of the state.

Heck, even setting up in nowheresville US can have positive benefits.


Jeff Gilbert, having done what he's done to Detroit this past decade, launched a fierce campaign to get Amazon to set up there. I think what kept it off of the short list is that the area simply does not have the human resources Amazon needs.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:04 am

anrec80 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Did you pay attention the story? Amazon said themselves it was the push back by the politicians of all levels involved and knowledge it would not stop and make it impossible for them to sign the deal. Typical fringe zealots biting their nose off to spite their faces. Hope they are happy.


Yes, I did. This is what Amazon said - because they could say it. They had full support of both Di Blasio and Cuomo - I don’t think they would not have handled this matter had they had a real desire to do so.


Correct. In any case, NoVa is a great location considering the available tech human resources and QOL in the DC metro.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:14 am

Airstud wrote:
Jeff Gilbert, having done what he's done to Detroit this past decade, launched a fierce campaign to get Amazon to set up there. I think what kept it off of the short list is that the area simply does not have the human resources Amazon needs.

Fair point, but it doesn't mean it can't help the city rebuild. Why does Amazon need a second HQ anyway? Isn't it something that can be built in stages so the city can support the development?
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:14 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because AOC doesn't want them there. She is the reason Amazon ditched NYC.

Too bad for her, Amazon's current office in NYC is NOT in her district so Jeff Bezos and others have no need to pay attention to her. And their office has been there long before AOC entered the scene.

I'm not talking about an expanded presence or the future location of HQ2; I'm talking about the office they already have: why would they get rid of it?


The Chrysler Building or World Trade Center would be a good location for Amazon's HQ2.


I disagree. Why would Amazon want to stuff themselves into the limited space of an existing skyscraper when for less money they could buy several hundred acres elsewhere and build an expansive (and expandable at will/need) campus in a beautiful park-like setting away from the noise, pollution, and crowding of downtown NYC?
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:02 pm

Airstud wrote:

Jeff Gilbert, having done what he's done to Detroit this past decade, launched a fierce campaign to get Amazon to set up there. I think what kept it off of the short list is that the area simply does not have the human resources Amazon needs.
There's much more to SE Michigan than Detroit itself.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:15 pm

Amazon is still expanding in NYC, instead of a big campus in LIC they’re grabbing space at several locations including fancy new space in a tower at Hudson yards.

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/op-ed/ama ... still-lose

https://nypost.com/2019/05/27/amazon-is ... %20buttons




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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:42 pm

johns624 wrote:
Airstud wrote:

Jeff Gilbert, having done what he's done to Detroit this past decade, launched a fierce campaign to get Amazon to set up there. I think what kept it off of the short list is that the area simply does not have the human resources Amazon needs.
There's much more to SE Michigan than Detroit itself.

I think the issue is how much money they can get the locals to invest, Detroit may be cheaper but since they have no money, Amazon would have to spend all of theirs, why do that if you can get local money?

The sports teams owners showed how it should be done, get the local vested in your business, vested not invested.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:10 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
That being said, I don't think Amazon should have located to either NoVA or NYC. As much as I would have liked Boston, that too would have been unproductive. I agree with Bill Maher (who had a New Rules segment dedicated to this) in that Amazon should have considered somewhere else: Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis. Not only does the company revive a dying city (and stop the outflow of people), it also means changing the politics of the state.

Heck, even setting up in nowheresville US can have positive benefits.

The problem is millennials don't want to live in Nowheresville amongst the hayseeds, they want to live in SEA, NYC, BOS, NoVa, etc.

Corporations seem convinced the only way forward is to attract masses of millennials, yet anecdotal evidence suggests there are flaws in this strategy.

Interestingly enough I just heard a report this morning about how ageing workers are the world's biggest untapped employment resource.

Maybe Amazon should set up shop in MIA instead? :lol:
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johns624
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:55 pm

par13del wrote:
I think the issue is how much money they can get the locals to invest, Detroit may be cheaper but since they have no money, Amazon would have to spend all of theirs, why do that if you can get local money?
I agree but Airstud was implying that the DTW area can't get technically proficient young workers. I guess that the auto companies and their suppliers never knew that.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:39 pm

Revelation wrote:
The problem is millennials don't want to live in Nowheresville amongst the hayseeds, they want to live in SEA, NYC, BOS, NoVa, etc.

My generation is one that, unfortunately, wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want to live in the big cities, but complain about not being able to make ends meet. My first job was in St. Louis, and that is a city in nowheresville (not as nowheresville as, say, Omaha would be, but still rather isolated). That didn't stop people from wanting to settle down, especially with low costs of living and a reviving urban scene.

If it weren't for the politics of the state, I would have loved to have stayed there. And the impression I get from many millennials is that they don't care too much for state politics; only presidential level politics, and that's if they even care at all about politics. Heck, I'm talking to a guy that moved from GA to SC and when I told him I wouldn't consider a Southern state (for the heat and the politics) his reply was that he doesn't pay attention to politics and that as long as no one bugs him, he doesn't mind where he moves to.
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anrec80
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:55 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Correct. In any case, NoVa is a great location considering the available tech human resources and QOL in the DC metro.


Well - amazon doesn’t rely only on local talent pool. They move a lot of people in from other areas, and are one of the biggest H1B and green card sponsors. They also have huge attrition - working there isn’t for everyone.

Being a software engineer in NYC, I, frankly, find it a good news that Amazon did not want to set up shop in NYC. They would work like a pump, pulling people into the City, providing them with green cards and pushing them out onto the local market. Let them do this exercise elsewhere - somewhere where they need more population.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:16 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, but she is spot on with this. There is no reason to be wasting taxpayer dollars by subsidizing a mega-cooperation and further congesting the area and jacking up the already sky-high cost of living when the money could be better used for hundreds of things.

A cost analysis should have been done to see if the added jobs will benefit the area in the long run. It may cause headaches for people in the short term (rent increases, more traffic, etc), but does it mean an expanded tax base in the city with high performing individuals?

That being said, I don't think Amazon should have located to either NoVA or NYC. As much as I would have liked Boston, that too would have been unproductive. I agree with Bill Maher (who had a New Rules segment dedicated to this) in that Amazon should have considered somewhere else: Detroit, Columbus, Indianapolis. Not only does the company revive a dying city (and stop the outflow of people), it also means changing the politics of the state.

Heck, even setting up in nowheresville US can have positive benefits.

How exactly are Indianapolis or Columbus considered dying cities?
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:00 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
How exactly are Indianapolis or Columbus considered dying cities?

Apologies. I meant to say "regions", as in regions where population growth is stagnant or below the national average, still have low(er) costs of living, and have the infrastructure to support HQ2. The MW and the NE are stagnant regions: population growth is not as strong as the South and the West. However, the NE has higher costs of living than the MW so the NE is really not a feasible place. In the South, cost of living is relatively low, but it is vibrant (yes there are some spots like AL, WV, MS, and LA that are not enjoying the growth that their neighbors are, but overall, it's the fastest growing region) and so is the West (minus the cost of living, especially along the coast).

To revive a region, move to a place that has the infrastructure in place but also gives its citizens a balance for social and economic aspects. The MW is the region for that, IMO. Columbus and Indianapolis are hubs in a region whose main industry is dying (manufacturing). While the cities have adapted, it still doesn't change the fact that they (along with the state and the region) could stand to benefit from HQ2 far more than NoVA, Boston, or NYC would.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Pittsburgh, Austin, Santa Fe, Albuquerque, Denver, Reno, Atlanta, Raleigh or Charlotte, were the sorts of places I was guessing. Obviously wrong.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:48 pm

I'm glad they didn't come to Atlanta. The state proposed giving them ridiculous benefits like Amazon-exclusive subway cars and taxpayer funded schools to train Amazon employees.

Instead, State Farm has been quietly building their equivalent of HQ2 here, with no ridiculous subsidy needed.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:59 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
I'm glad they didn't come to Atlanta. The state proposed giving them ridiculous benefits like Amazon-exclusive subway cars and taxpayer funded schools to train Amazon employees.

Instead, State Farm has been quietly building their equivalent of HQ2 here, with no ridiculous subsidy needed.


The subway cars (if true) seems ridiculous but taxpayer funded schools to train for jobs is hardly a reason for scorn, isn't that what schools are for? Don't we already do that on a grand scale? Gawd forbid we raise the level of education to meet the needs of a modern workforce. At least you got some paper pushers at State Farm.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:09 pm

mham001 wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
I'm glad they didn't come to Atlanta. The state proposed giving them ridiculous benefits like Amazon-exclusive subway cars and taxpayer funded schools to train Amazon employees.

Instead, State Farm has been quietly building their equivalent of HQ2 here, with no ridiculous subsidy needed.


The subway cars (if true) seems ridiculous but taxpayer funded schools to train for jobs is hardly a reason for scorn, isn't that what schools are for? Don't we already do that on a grand scale? Gawd forbid we raise the level of education to meet the needs of a modern workforce. At least you got some paper pushers at State Farm.


It would've been basically a branch of Georgia's technical college system and paid for by the state, but operated exclusively to train and fill jobs for Amazon.

One of the components would have been an on-site “Amazon Georgia Academy” operated with the help of the University System of Georgia and the state tech college system. The price tag was listed as “incalculable/TBD” by state officials.

It would have offered a 24-week boot camp program for staffers, undergraduate and post-graduate coursework, and state-sponsored recruiters to help fill the company’s jobs. The state would pay to build the academy and pick up the first five years of operating costs – including salaries of professors and recruiters.


The other miscellaneous benefits offered:

This is where it gets more interesting. The state proposed an exclusive lounge at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport for Amazon executives, along with 50 free parking spots. And the firm developing a nearby hotel offered a plot of land for an “Amazon Experience Center” near the sprawling airport.

To allay concerns about Atlanta’s gridlock, the state said MARTA would consider adding an Amazon-dedicated car “to distribute products around the city.”


To me, this just seems egregious for a multi-billion dollar company.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:27 pm

cranberrysaus wrote:
mham001 wrote:
cranberrysaus wrote:
I'm glad they didn't come to Atlanta. The state proposed giving them ridiculous benefits like Amazon-exclusive subway cars and taxpayer funded schools to train Amazon employees.

Instead, State Farm has been quietly building their equivalent of HQ2 here, with no ridiculous subsidy needed.


The subway cars (if true) seems ridiculous but taxpayer funded schools to train for jobs is hardly a reason for scorn, isn't that what schools are for? Don't we already do that on a grand scale? Gawd forbid we raise the level of education to meet the needs of a modern workforce. At least you got some paper pushers at State Farm.


It would've been basically a branch of Georgia's technical college system and paid for by the state, but operated exclusively to train and fill jobs for Amazon.

One of the components would have been an on-site “Amazon Georgia Academy” operated with the help of the University System of Georgia and the state tech college system. The price tag was listed as “incalculable/TBD” by state officials.

It would have offered a 24-week boot camp program for staffers, undergraduate and post-graduate coursework, and state-sponsored recruiters to help fill the company’s jobs. The state would pay to build the academy and pick up the first five years of operating costs – including salaries of professors and recruiters.


The other miscellaneous benefits offered:

This is where it gets more interesting. The state proposed an exclusive lounge at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport for Amazon executives, along with 50 free parking spots. And the firm developing a nearby hotel offered a plot of land for an “Amazon Experience Center” near the sprawling airport.

To allay concerns about Atlanta’s gridlock, the state said MARTA would consider adding an Amazon-dedicated car “to distribute products around the city.”


To me, this just seems egregious for a multi-billion dollar company.


The subway freight car actually sounds like a good idea, those products are still going to be delivered, HQ or not. The airport lounge and parking sounds silly but I still don't think the school is as crazy . They need a skilled workforce, otherwise they just import all their employees. It would have been a great opportunity for Georgians who may never get close to well paying tech jobs and skills, skills that can just as easily be used elsewhere. Public universities commonly support the local industries, my local university churns out computer engineers by the hundreds to support Silicon Valley. This is a huge benefit. Spurring that then attracts other companies looking for those skills.
 
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:40 pm

School idea is OK, so long as Amazon does not have draconian non-compete laws.
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:26 pm

Atlanta needed HQ2 about as much as New York did. The economy there is already sizzling, and housing costs have exploded. I grew up in ATL (I watched I-85 go from two lanes to five) and its one of those situations where you say "it's all changed." Which everywhere has, but when you see it first-hand it's something incredible. Recently, in looking for a job, I was comparing several cities (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle among others). Atlanta was on par with cost to both Seattle and Chicago when it came to comparable housing in areas that we wanted to be in. You have to go far outside the Perimeter before you find inexpensive housing in a desirable area. What Atlanta has that Seattle, Chicago, or the NE cities don't have is few geographic boundaries to how far the sprawl can...sprawl.
 
anrec80
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:11 pm

luckyone wrote:
Atlanta needed HQ2 about as much as New York did. The economy there is already sizzling, and housing costs have exploded. I grew up in ATL (I watched I-85 go from two lanes to five) and its one of those situations where you say "it's all changed." Which everywhere has, but when you see it first-hand it's something incredible. Recently, in looking for a job, I was comparing several cities (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle among others). Atlanta was on par with cost to both Seattle and Chicago when it came to comparable housing in areas that we wanted to be in. You have to go far outside the Perimeter before you find inexpensive housing in a desirable area. What Atlanta has that Seattle, Chicago, or the NE cities don't have is few geographic boundaries to how far the sprawl can...sprawl.


Well, sprawl is much more about local regulation and willingness of builders to build. As it too often turns out - there is ample of land pretty much everywhere, you just need to look a bit harder to find suitable parcels. During housing boom, we’ve heard all these stories about Seattle - “no land to build”, and recently on the EastSide there is abundance of brand new rental housing, which pushed rents down.
Same is true about New York City - their excessive rent stabilization system makes impossible to demolish older buildings to put modern high-rises, overly complex building regulations and unions make it too expensive to build - hence eventual housing shortage. The only profitable housing segment would be ultra-luxury ones, but that demand is nearly filled. Land-wise - nearly every borough (except Manhattan pretty much) has ample of land to build even within walking distance to subway. And nearly every other - Chicago isn’t an exception.
 
luckyone
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 pm

anrec80 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Atlanta needed HQ2 about as much as New York did. The economy there is already sizzling, and housing costs have exploded. I grew up in ATL (I watched I-85 go from two lanes to five) and its one of those situations where you say "it's all changed." Which everywhere has, but when you see it first-hand it's something incredible. Recently, in looking for a job, I was comparing several cities (Atlanta, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Seattle among others). Atlanta was on par with cost to both Seattle and Chicago when it came to comparable housing in areas that we wanted to be in. You have to go far outside the Perimeter before you find inexpensive housing in a desirable area. What Atlanta has that Seattle, Chicago, or the NE cities don't have is few geographic boundaries to how far the sprawl can...sprawl.


Well, sprawl is much more about local regulation and willingness of builders to build. As it too often turns out - there is ample of land pretty much everywhere, you just need to look a bit harder to find suitable parcels. During housing boom, we’ve heard all these stories about Seattle - “no land to build”, and recently on the EastSide there is abundance of brand new rental housing, which pushed rents down.
Same is true about New York City - their excessive rent stabilization system makes impossible to demolish older buildings to put modern high-rises, overly complex building regulations and unions make it too expensive to build - hence eventual housing shortage. The only profitable housing segment would be ultra-luxury ones, but that demand is nearly filled. Land-wise - nearly every borough (except Manhattan pretty much) has ample of land to build even within walking distance to subway. And nearly every other - Chicago isn’t an exception.

I don't entirely agree with that. The Atlanta area has no significant barriers like water or mountains that limit in what directions sprawl can occur--it's one of the things I dislike about the area because it's effectively just endless low density development in every direction. You are correct in that local regulations play a role, but geography cannot be ignored. It's one of the reasons has Atlanta grown for so long.
 
anrec80
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:55 pm

luckyone wrote:
I don't entirely agree with that. The Atlanta area has no significant barriers like water or mountains that limit in what directions sprawl can occur--it's one of the things I dislike about the area because it's effectively just endless low density development in every direction. You are correct in that local regulations play a role, but geography cannot be ignored. It's one of the reasons has Atlanta grown for so long.


Seattle is also said to have too many geographical barriers - lakes, rivers, mountains surrounding the metro area. And nonetheless, the developers not only kept finding more space to build, but to build enough to actually lower housing costs in the area. Same can be the case pretty much anywhere - barriers can be overcome, with the help of modern construction technology if needed.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:59 pm

anrec80 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
I don't entirely agree with that. The Atlanta area has no significant barriers like water or mountains that limit in what directions sprawl can occur--it's one of the things I dislike about the area because it's effectively just endless low density development in every direction. You are correct in that local regulations play a role, but geography cannot be ignored. It's one of the reasons has Atlanta grown for so long.


Seattle is also said to have too many geographical barriers - lakes, rivers, mountains surrounding the metro area. And nonetheless, the developers not only kept finding more space to build, but to build enough to actually lower housing costs in the area. Same can be the case pretty much anywhere - barriers can be overcome, with the help of modern construction technology if needed.


Pretty much agree with all you say on Seattle. Seattle has a huge amount of its territory more or less zoned for single family homes, and the neighborhoods tend to be pretty vocal and combative about keeping it that way. Although ancillary rental units are now generally legal - but the codes and other building regulations can make them more expensive to build than most minimum workers could afford to pay.

What there really is a shortage of is smaller 3 and 4 bedroom rental units and condos. Not all of those young Amazon workers will want to stay single and childless, and one baby is crowded, two becomes a crisis. Also critical shortages of day care. I know people spending over $50K a year for that.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:23 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Seattle is also said to have too many geographical barriers - lakes, rivers, mountains surrounding the metro area. And nonetheless, the developers not only kept finding more space to build, but to build enough to actually lower housing costs in the area. Same can be the case pretty much anywhere - barriers can be overcome, with the help of modern construction technology if needed.

If housing costs have been lowered, I haven't seen it. I asked my landlord, if I were to renew today (instead of December when my lease ends), how much of a rent increase would I be facing? It's about a 10% increase...and this is in Renton.

Then you look at Bellevue, Kirkland, and Seattle proper and apartments are shoebox sized, about $2k-$3k for 1bd, with no parking (or paid for separately).

The city and its surroundings are running out of space. They can only build upward, but that only brings in more people and makes commute and transportation a nightmare, especially because regulations do not require parking for all tenants. They're slowly expanding outward. Now Bellevue is becoming the new hot spot, especially since Amazon plans to shift operations over there.

I'm still looking southward to the Puyallup area to buy: still cheap, and buoyed by Tacoma, Olympia and Seattle.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Amazon's Second Headquarters

Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:58 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Seattle is also said to have too many geographical barriers - lakes, rivers, mountains surrounding the metro area. And nonetheless, the developers not only kept finding more space to build, but to build enough to actually lower housing costs in the area. Same can be the case pretty much anywhere - barriers can be overcome, with the help of modern construction technology if needed.

If housing costs have been lowered, I haven't seen it. I asked my landlord, if I were to renew today (instead of December when my lease ends), how much of a rent increase would I be facing? It's about a 10% increase...and this is in Renton.

Then you look at Bellevue, Kirkland, and Seattle proper and apartments are shoebox sized, about $2k-$3k for 1bd, with no parking (or paid for separately).

The city and its surroundings are running out of space. They can only build upward, but that only brings in more people and makes commute and transportation a nightmare, especially because regulations do not require parking for all tenants. They're slowly expanding outward. Now Bellevue is becoming the new hot spot, especially since Amazon plans to shift operations over there.

I'm still looking southward to the Puyallup area to buy: still cheap, and buoyed by Tacoma, Olympia and Seattle.

Ignored in this discussion is the costs of building on steeps hills in seismically active areas, and that only happens at a certain price point. Atlanta does not have that problem.

Regarding parking and traffic, Seattle is no different than any other large city, beyond the fact that it's just grown so quickly which is understandably irking long time residents. I lived in Chicago for over six years, and parked on the street for about half of that time. It was always a challenge, and you learned to plan your drives accordingly. Parking in the inner collar suburbs like Evanston, Oak Park/Forest Park is more of a nightmare than the city itself, particularly in Oak Park/Forest Park.

Re: Bellevue. Amazon, to my understanding, is moving about 4,000 employees that work in their worldwide logistics division into the building that Expedia is about to vacate when they move their employees (also about 4,000) into their new campus in Lower Queen Anne. So, in spite of much hand wringing from people on both sides of the Amazon argument (the city is chasing them out vs. they're bad corporate citizens who don't keep their promises), and Amazon playing those sides off each other...it wouldn't shock me to learn they had planned this quite some time ago as they just simply need more space and a good deal popped up in Bellevue. With regards to their Rainier Square building, there's a lot of talk they'll actually make more subletting the space. And there certainly doesn't seem to be enough available space in Bellevue to accommodate all of their operations. And if you want to talk about real estate prices, they're ALREADY into the millions in Bellevue and the surrounding areas.

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