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Pellegrine
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Hell of a thing to be helping KSA with their little war while another 9/11 anniversary comes and goes and another DOJ places Riyadh’s needs above 9/11 families, no? The mind boggles at the ‘patriotism’ in DC.

I guess people aren't thinking very well: 10 drones are damn easy to import into the USA legally or not, also damn easy to set up and launch within striking distance of similar US oil infrastructure that would burn just as easily. Drones with autopilot and GPS homing don't need daylight, so the team doing the launching could set things up could be making their escape at night even before the targets are hit.

Pretty much every major international airport has a tank farm near by, set that ablaze and you can shut down air traffic for long periods of time, along with making a big PR splash.

I guess I read too many Tom Clancy novels, but these scenarios must worry policy makers.


That’s certainly a concern, among others, but staying so close to an ‘ally’ that continues to fund radicalism in multiple countries is not what sensible people call prevention. And then there’s the deference in the name of ‘stable oil prices’:

“Trump awaits instructions from his Saudi masters. Having our country act as Saudi Arabia's bitch is not ‘America First,’” Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, who is running for the Democratic nomination for president, tweeted on Sunday night.

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019 ... an-1498147


The US chose to remain married to Saudi oil ever since Roosevelt gave Ibn Saud one of his wheelchairs. I'm sure it isn't lost on you that KSA can pump millions of barrels a day for a few dollars a barrel. Especially when Canadian heavy oil is expensive, and Venezuela is a mess.
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Pellegrine
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:24 am

sonicruiser wrote:
There's a great analysis by Washington Institute: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/pol ... deterrence

The strike was highly effective from a military perspective. The weapons hit at around 4 a.m. local time and appear to have struck from a northerly or northwesterly direction. This fits with a string of reporting that suggests related air defense alerts and engine sounds were concentrated in areas of the northern Persian Gulf, as opposed to an ingress route from Yemen. Strong U.S. government statements have ruled out Yemen (on September 14) and Iraq (on September 16), so the focus is narrowing to a direct strike originating from Iran.

These factors—plus the lack of attempted air defense interception by numerous overlapping Hawk and Patriot missile batteries—suggest a low-level cruise missile attack that hugged the ground at altitudes of under 300 feet. The footage seen thus far shows only one crashed missile, indicating that the arrival rate was very high, possibly even 95 percent, and that routes were carefully planned to avoid obstacles such as power lines and communication towers.

Seventeen individual impact points were struck at the Abqaiq facility, with a smaller number (perhaps as low as two) at Khurais. The weapons were highly accurate—for instance, all twelve of the thirty-meter-wide spheroid gas-oil separation tanks at Abqaiq were hit almost dead center. Much thinner stabilization towers were also accurately struck.

There are even indications of finesse in the strike’s “weaponeering,” the technical term for munition selection and modification. Some “aimpoints” were clearly hit with large explosive payloads consistent with an Iranian cruise missile such as the 700-kilometer-range Ya-Ali. Yet the gas-oil separation tanks appear to have been struck with high-velocity kinetic force sans explosions, perhaps signaling an effort to damage but not permanently destroy them. Similar finesse was visible in Iran’s May 12 attacks in the Fujairah anchorage off the United Arab Emirates, where four ships had their hulls expertly holed without causing the vessels to spill oil, sink, or suffer massive fires.

The full level of damage inflicted this Saturday is unknown so far, but considering the range of facilities struck and the long lead times for manufacturing such specialized equipment, the impact on Saudi oil processing capacity could extend into the four-, six-, or even twelve-month timeframe, forcing the kingdom to discontinue offering Arab Light and Arab Super Light grades. This extraordinary outcome would deeply shock oil markets and the Saudi leadership alike. And from a military perspective, no energy sector has been struck so effectively since the U.S. coalition’s precision bombing of Iraq in 1991.


By the sound of things, this was a very sophisticated operation with extensive planning. Cruise missiles flying under a 300ft ceiling would signify a very high level of confidence in its abilities to strike desired targets. If true, the part about the missiles navigating power lines and communication towers is pretty extraordinary, and they definitely know what they are doing to have accounted for such a sharp level of detail and guidance.


Who wouldn't be wary of retaliating against Iran if any of that article is true? Iran could go after whatever they want in that region...seemingly with precision and finesse.
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Revelation
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:40 am

sonicruiser wrote:
By the sound of things, this was a very sophisticated operation with extensive planning. Cruise missiles flying under a 300ft ceiling would signify a very high level of confidence in its abilities to strike desired targets. If true, the part about the missiles navigating power lines and communication towers is pretty extraordinary, and they definitely know what they are doing to have accounted for such a sharp level of detail and guidance.

Cruise missile tech has been around since the 70s, the surprising thing is that it hasn't been used very often at all. These days GPS receiver ICs are off the shelf items, commercial hi res satellite imagery is available to all, rocket engines are now 3D printed. I don't see many impediments to the tech being used more often. It's a terribly difficult thing to defend against, especially when you consider swarm attacks designed to overwhelm whatever few defensive measures are present.
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Aesma
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:45 am

Revelation wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That’s certainly a concern, among others, but staying so close to an ‘ally’ that continues to fund radicalism in multiple countries is not what sensible people call prevention.

Iran funds Shia radicals.

Saudia funds Sunni radicals.

The squabbles have been going on since Mohammad died without leaving a succession plan.

There's no "prevent" to be had.


The Shia radicals are like Zionists, they want their land and their faith respected, not oppressed like in Saudi Arabia.

The Sunni radicals are like Evangelicals, they want to spread their death cult everywhere on the planet.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:00 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
There's a great analysis by Washington Institute: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/pol ... deterrence

The strike was highly effective from a military perspective. The weapons hit at around 4 a.m. local time and appear to have struck from a northerly or northwesterly direction. This fits with a string of reporting that suggests related air defense alerts and engine sounds were concentrated in areas of the northern Persian Gulf, as opposed to an ingress route from Yemen. Strong U.S. government statements have ruled out Yemen (on September 14) and Iraq (on September 16), so the focus is narrowing to a direct strike originating from Iran.

These factors—plus the lack of attempted air defense interception by numerous overlapping Hawk and Patriot missile batteries—suggest a low-level cruise missile attack that hugged the ground at altitudes of under 300 feet. The footage seen thus far shows only one crashed missile, indicating that the arrival rate was very high, possibly even 95 percent, and that routes were carefully planned to avoid obstacles such as power lines and communication towers.

Seventeen individual impact points were struck at the Abqaiq facility, with a smaller number (perhaps as low as two) at Khurais. The weapons were highly accurate—for instance, all twelve of the thirty-meter-wide spheroid gas-oil separation tanks at Abqaiq were hit almost dead center. Much thinner stabilization towers were also accurately struck.

There are even indications of finesse in the strike’s “weaponeering,” the technical term for munition selection and modification. Some “aimpoints” were clearly hit with large explosive payloads consistent with an Iranian cruise missile such as the 700-kilometer-range Ya-Ali. Yet the gas-oil separation tanks appear to have been struck with high-velocity kinetic force sans explosions, perhaps signaling an effort to damage but not permanently destroy them. Similar finesse was visible in Iran’s May 12 attacks in the Fujairah anchorage off the United Arab Emirates, where four ships had their hulls expertly holed without causing the vessels to spill oil, sink, or suffer massive fires.

The full level of damage inflicted this Saturday is unknown so far, but considering the range of facilities struck and the long lead times for manufacturing such specialized equipment, the impact on Saudi oil processing capacity could extend into the four-, six-, or even twelve-month timeframe, forcing the kingdom to discontinue offering Arab Light and Arab Super Light grades. This extraordinary outcome would deeply shock oil markets and the Saudi leadership alike. And from a military perspective, no energy sector has been struck so effectively since the U.S. coalition’s precision bombing of Iraq in 1991.


By the sound of things, this was a very sophisticated operation with extensive planning. Cruise missiles flying under a 300ft ceiling would signify a very high level of confidence in its abilities to strike desired targets. If true, the part about the missiles navigating power lines and communication towers is pretty extraordinary, and they definitely know what they are doing to have accounted for such a sharp level of detail and guidance.


Who wouldn't be wary of retaliating against Iran if any of that article is true? Iran could go after whatever they want in that region...seemingly with precision and finesse.


Exactly. Either it isn't Iran, and we're being lied too, again.
Or it's Iran, and anyone living in that region (and elsewhere) should be very scared of a war breaking out involving Iran.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:17 pm

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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Another message from all of this. Waging war may not be near so effective as pursuing national interests by means of diplomacy and even bribery. The number of collateral deaths in the Mideast should be an international shame. That it isn't is a warning that very many small groups as well as large nations are adapting modern technology making civilization difficult.
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sonicruiser
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
Cruise missile tech has been around since the 70s, the surprising thing is that it hasn't been used very often at all. These days GPS receiver ICs are off the shelf items, commercial hi res satellite imagery is available to all, rocket engines are now 3D printed. I don't see many impediments to the tech being used more often. It's a terribly difficult thing to defend against, especially when you consider swarm attacks designed to overwhelm whatever few defensive measures are present.


That would be true if this was any other country other than Iran given that Saudi Arabia or Israel would have no trouble acquiring such technology. But the US has applied maximum sanctions on any form of ballistics research and development as well as making it as difficult as possible to obtain any off the shelf components for such applications so the fact that they were able to develop it to such an advanced degree despite these sanctions is impressive.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:06 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Cruise missile tech has been around since the 70s, the surprising thing is that it hasn't been used very often at all. These days GPS receiver ICs are off the shelf items, commercial hi res satellite imagery is available to all, rocket engines are now 3D printed. I don't see many impediments to the tech being used more often. It's a terribly difficult thing to defend against, especially when you consider swarm attacks designed to overwhelm whatever few defensive measures are present.

That would be true if this was any other country other than Iran given that Saudi Arabia or Israel would have no trouble acquiring such technology. But the US has applied maximum sanctions on any form of ballistics research and development as well as making it as difficult as possible to obtain any off the shelf components for such applications so the fact that they were able to develop it to such an advanced degree despite these sanctions is impressive.

US sanctions mean little in this case. All the core technologies are well understood outside the US, and many hardware and software guidance components are available off the shelf internationally. It's not a big challenge to create engines using 3D printed metals especially if you know they are for one time use. New Zealand's Rocket Labs is 3D printing its entire engine. Iran is more than advanced enough to do the work needed to make a cruise missile. We now have strong evidence that they have done just that.
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Aaron747
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Cruise missile tech has been around since the 70s, the surprising thing is that it hasn't been used very often at all. These days GPS receiver ICs are off the shelf items, commercial hi res satellite imagery is available to all, rocket engines are now 3D printed. I don't see many impediments to the tech being used more often. It's a terribly difficult thing to defend against, especially when you consider swarm attacks designed to overwhelm whatever few defensive measures are present.

That would be true if this was any other country other than Iran given that Saudi Arabia or Israel would have no trouble acquiring such technology. But the US has applied maximum sanctions on any form of ballistics research and development as well as making it as difficult as possible to obtain any off the shelf components for such applications so the fact that they were able to develop it to such an advanced degree despite these sanctions is impressive.

US sanctions mean little in this case. All the core technologies are well understood outside the US, and many hardware and software guidance components are available off the shelf internationally. It's not a big challenge to create engines using 3D printed metals especially if you know they are for one time use. New Zealand's Rocket Labs is 3D printing its entire engine. Iran is more than advanced enough to do the work needed to make a cruise missile. We now have strong evidence that they have done just that.


As well they have plenty of navigational and guidance technologies available to engineer from owing to their large inventory of modified Russian ballistic and air defense systems.
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trpmb6
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:20 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
That would be true if this was any other country other than Iran given that Saudi Arabia or Israel would have no trouble acquiring such technology. But the US has applied maximum sanctions on any form of ballistics research and development as well as making it as difficult as possible to obtain any off the shelf components for such applications so the fact that they were able to develop it to such an advanced degree despite these sanctions is impressive.

US sanctions mean little in this case. All the core technologies are well understood outside the US, and many hardware and software guidance components are available off the shelf internationally. It's not a big challenge to create engines using 3D printed metals especially if you know they are for one time use. New Zealand's Rocket Labs is 3D printing its entire engine. Iran is more than advanced enough to do the work needed to make a cruise missile. We now have strong evidence that they have done just that.


As well they have plenty of navigational and guidance technologies available to engineer from owing to their large inventory of modified Russian ballistic and air defense systems.


I don't really understand where people think the Iranian's aren't capable of developing impressive technologies. They are smart, resilient and quite adept. Even under the blanket of sanctions. They are not a small country and so reliant on supply chains outside their borders. If anything, the constant blanket of sanctions has only improved their own supply chain base within their borders.

To underestimate the Iranian's is to be naïve.
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:35 pm

I also wonder if the occupant of the White House is doing this for show? Taking us to the brink of war then signing a deal with Iran (probably worse than the one we had before) and declaring victory and will campaign on that hoping that we all forgot all the other saber rattling and cancelling treaties?
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:27 pm

How dare the Iranians. First they place their country under US drones and dare to defend their airspace. Then their tankers ignored the embargo they weren't subjected to. Now they supposedly attacked the country that sponsored the 9/11 terrorists, and without human losses at that!
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
I also wonder if the occupant of the White House is doing this for show? Taking us to the brink of war then signing a deal with Iran (probably worse than the one we had before) and declaring victory and will campaign on that hoping that we all forgot all the other saber rattling and cancelling treaties?

"They pay cash", and what could republicans and evangelicals want more than cash for murder? It made Betty Devos' brother Erik Prince millions.
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:17 am

Saudi-led coalition launches military operation north of Hodeidah in Yemen

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yeme ... SKBN1W434R
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:50 am

Houthis in Yemen say they will attack again in two days, according to this interview with reporters from the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation:

- When will the next attack on Saudi Arabia come?
"In two days, another attack will come from us against Saudi Arabia if the military coalition continues the air strikes against Hodeida," al-Shahare said.
- What goals do you want to attack?
- We will continue the attacks against Abha and Jizan airports in addition to port areas. Later, we will attack targets further inland, says al-Shahare.

Abdul Qudoos al-Shahar told NRK. He is the director of the Houthi movement's information ministry in Yemen and states that he is speaking on behalf of the militia group.

https://www.nrk.no/urix/_-det-kommer-et ... 1.14711625
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:57 am

The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.
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olle
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:13 am

This is a major change in global warfare. It is like 1940 Taranto event that was the point in history killing off expensive battle ships. It is 1967 Eliat moment with guided missiles.

Now more or less any nation or organisation with limited budget can achieve similar effect like an well equipped nation with expensive weapons can do.

This means that the balance in ME will be changed.

The Eliat 1967 made it impossible for bigger ships to enter Baltic sea in case of conflict.

Will USA, UK etc dare to have bigger ships deployed close to Iran or Iran supported groups? The effect of attacking Iran now will will from now on have different effect compared calculated with before.

It is also change the calculation for Israel. Israeli nuclear facilities, naval and airforce bases probably is as easy to hit as Iran installations has been in Syria and Iraq until now.
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:18 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.


That is a stunning calculation...oh well, 9/11 was 18 years ago I guess...no bother!
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Mortyman
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:19 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.


Sorry.but there is no proof that Iran attacked
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:08 am

US now sending forces to help protect SA and UAE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49777672
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WIederling
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:07 am

readytotaxi wrote:
US now sending forces to help protect SA and UAE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49777672


Because SA couldn't operate their Patriot systems properly :-?
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:11 am

WIederling wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
US now sending forces to help protect SA and UAE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49777672


Because SA couldn't operate their Patriot systems properly :-?


Has Patriot ever successfully shot down anything other than an RAF Tornado in a real fight?
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Aaron747
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:35 pm

Mortyman wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.


Sorry.but there is no proof that Iran attacked


Occam’s razor suggests the most simple scenario is that KSA staged this attack themselves, particularly since the strikes were pinpoint and allowed for minimum duration disruption to production. Perhaps they did not get the response from 45 they were hoping for.
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N757ST
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:18 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.


Sorry.but there is no proof that Iran attacked


Occam’s razor suggests the most simple scenario is that KSA staged this attack themselves, particularly since the strikes were pinpoint and allowed for minimum duration disruption to production. Perhaps they did not get the response from 45 they were hoping for.


A false flag is not the most simple scenario. The most simple scenario is that Iran or an agent of them is escalating tensions in the gulf in order to bring other entities ( the United States) to the table. Is the Kim Jong Un approach... escalate to a point close to war so that when actual war is on the horizon everyone looks to de-escalate. It’s a strategy fraught with danger but it’s been done successfully in the past.
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The Iranian attack on SA was perhaps a counter-attack. Nothing to do with Yemen. I support our bond with SA in this present world that we live in. I would rather help Israel & SA than help Iran, that is the govt. of Iran. The people of Iran are not well-served by their theocratic rulers.


Sorry.but there is no proof that Iran attacked


Occam’s razor suggests the most simple scenario is that KSA staged this attack themselves, particularly since the strikes were pinpoint and allowed for minimum duration disruption to production. Perhaps they did not get the response from 45 they were hoping for.


You keep making this claim but it's all speculation and really just rubbish. Your original points up thread was that KSA did this to increase the price of oil. But that didnt work out as oil is basically back to where it was. Now you've flipped and said the strikes were strategic in that they provided the least amount of disruption.
 
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:03 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:

Sorry.but there is no proof that Iran attacked


Occam’s razor suggests the most simple scenario is that KSA staged this attack themselves, particularly since the strikes were pinpoint and allowed for minimum duration disruption to production. Perhaps they did not get the response from 45 they were hoping for.


You keep making this claim but it's all speculation and really just rubbish. Your original points up thread was that KSA did this to increase the price of oil. But that didnt work out as oil is basically back to where it was. Now you've flipped and said the strikes were strategic in that they provided the least amount of disruption.


I stated numerous times these are either observations from the region (I read a lot of Gulf sourcing - do you?), and have used qualifiers to denote speculation. 'Rubbish' is your opinion only - and with the actors involved in the region, honesty is a rare coin indeed. Speculation is thus all we have since nobody has produced reliable evidence for the world to see. At this point a special independent inquiry from the UN or similar party would make the most sense, but KSA would have to get that ball rolling. Since they have asked for troops instead, who knows?
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WIederling
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 pm

The SA media turnabouts are interesting to say the least.

First nobody knew.
Houthis saying "it was us".

Than Pompeo's visit focused things : "Obviously Iran"
After Bibi did not get elected though foreign support was provided:
SA returns to "we don't really know and go for a neutral investigation"
following the Russian lead.
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olle
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:07 pm

One question; anyone consider the yemen rebels have the right to attack SA?

I mean the SA has been bombing yemen a long time now.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:47 am

scbriml wrote:
WIederling wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
US now sending forces to help protect SA and UAE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49777672


Because SA couldn't operate their Patriot systems properly :-?


Has Patriot ever successfully shot down anything other than an RAF Tornado in a real fight?


Patriot systems are 1991-vintage crap. I'd rather have Russian S400s and soon S500s defending me.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:56 am

The lesson from all of this is that Obama's strategy with Europe actually was effective. Unless you want all out war between US/Iran/KSA/UAE/Israel. That's a 5 party war that could go nuclear quickly. Iran might already have nuclear weapons, and that would be a dear surprise to the Israelis (who have around 250-400 themselves).
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Oil Fields Attack

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:11 am

I wouldn't be surprised if another attack like this happened soon. A worse one in fact, targeting more critical elements, or more numerous ones, having learned from the result of the first attack.
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Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:17 am

Pretty insane footage courtesy 60 minutes interview. You have to see it to believe it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3MqGmUwg9c
 
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:29 am

Iranian? Thought that was still under investigation.....
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extender
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:29 am

That can't be true. We all know Iran is peaceful.
 
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:35 am

It isn’t true until there is incontrovertible evidence as to where they were launched from.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Olddog
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:40 am

A new bottle of anthrax, you have seen it in Powell's hand, do you still trust your eyes ?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
drew777
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:32 am

While I believe Iran probably was involved in the strike, that video proves nothing.

Why do we even care is the real question.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:51 am

drew777 wrote:
While I believe Iran probably was involved in the strike, that video proves nothing.

Why do we even care is the real question.


Indeed, that is the most important question.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:39 pm

drew777 wrote:
Why do we even care is the real question.

At the very least, we care because a strike at Saudi Arabia's largest oil refinery and their inability to protect it and/or control the situation could come in the form of oil price spikes. Or is the memory of $100+ oil long gone?

We shouldn't care to the point of pledging all in support to Saudi Arabia (deploying troops? Really?) but the situation bears further monitoring.

In addition, it's even more reason to continue weaning off of fossil fuels and going towards renewables.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:39 pm

extender wrote:
That can't be true. We all know Iran is peaceful.

Well, all it takes is for Iran's Supreme Leader to strongly deny it in front of Trump.

Trump likes strongmen and always believes them so why not?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
extender
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:41 pm

Don't care about this? But you'll go on and on about Trump nothing burgers? Rich, it truly is.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:50 pm

extender wrote:
Don't care about this? But you'll go on and on about Trump nothing burgers? Rich, it truly is.


Cares about a country loaded to the teeth with billions in aircraft and munitions unable to defend itself, whilst still scot free for indirectly funding 9/11 - yet doesn’t care about open abuses of office and longstanding WH convention culminating in WH staff ratting the administration out to a whistleblower. #FailedPatriot
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wingman
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:18 pm

To the topic at hand, those strikes don't display much explosiveness. They almost look like dummy warheads igniting only what's flammable in the immediate area of contact. When you watch Russian and US cruise missile strikes you tend to see some bigger boom boom. I'm not I categorize those as cruise missile strikes, unless that's now a known fact?
 
Spar
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:55 pm

wingman wrote:
To the topic at hand, those strikes don't display much explosiveness. They almost look like dummy warheads igniting only what's flammable in the immediate area of contact. When you watch Russian and US cruise missile strikes you tend to see some bigger boom boom. I'm not I categorize those as cruise missile strikes, unless that's now a known fact?

There is a lot known about the type of missiles used in that attack.
According to the Saudi Defense Ministry, 18 drones and seven cruise missiles were used.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/mide ... ne-swarms/
You don't need a lot of explosive power when you are hitting containers of volatile chemicals under pressure.

There is a thread ongoing in Military aviation and space.
 
extender
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:02 pm

Big difference between Raytheon UGM-109 and a Hezbollah Aeronautics drone. These strikes in SA did not use large warheads as found on the Tomahawk. They had enough to create the mayhem that crippled the site. The definition of a cruise missile is something un-manned and accurate. It does meet the definition of a missile.
 
Spar
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:11 pm

extender wrote:
Big difference between Raytheon UGM-109 and a Hezbollah Aeronautics drone. These strikes in SA did not use large warheads as found on the Tomahawk. They had enough to create the mayhem that crippled the site. The definition of a cruise missile is something un-manned and accurate. It does meet the definition of a missile.

Now you not only claim that Iran did the strike, but you even specify that it was a Hezbollah operation.

You just make it up as you go along.
 
extender
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:47 pm

Spar wrote:
extender wrote:
Big difference between Raytheon UGM-109 and a Hezbollah Aeronautics drone. These strikes in SA did not use large warheads as found on the Tomahawk. They had enough to create the mayhem that crippled the site. The definition of a cruise missile is something un-manned and accurate. It does meet the definition of a missile.

Now you not only claim that Iran did the strike, but you even specify that it was a Hezbollah operation.

You just make it up as you go along.


I was being facetious. Is there a Hezbollah Aerospace? I don't know. I do know that hezbollah and the Mullahs in Iran go hand in hand.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:09 pm

extender wrote:
Spar wrote:
extender wrote:
Big difference between Raytheon UGM-109 and a Hezbollah Aeronautics drone. These strikes in SA did not use large warheads as found on the Tomahawk. They had enough to create the mayhem that crippled the site. The definition of a cruise missile is something un-manned and accurate. It does meet the definition of a missile.

Now you not only claim that Iran did the strike, but you even specify that it was a Hezbollah operation.

You just make it up as you go along.


I was being facetious. Is there a Hezbollah Aerospace? I don't know. I do know that hezbollah and the Mullahs in Iran go hand in hand.


Everybody knows that - it is nothing in the way of evidence. In fact everyone is still waiting for something independent and concrete. UNGA would have been a perfect time to show what they’ve got...but crickets instead. What gives?

Nothing new on Al Jazeera’s tracker:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019 ... 00973.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
drew777
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Re: Incredible footage of Iranian cruise missiles precision strike on Saudi oil refinery

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:58 pm

extender wrote:
Don't care about this? But you'll go on and on about Trump nothing burgers? Rich, it truly is.


A country that supports regional terrorism attacking a country that supports global terrorism. No innocents killed. If the attack had been more successful it could have helped pushed the world towards cleaner energy. I really don't see why the United States should be concerned.

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